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Is it sacrilege. . .?


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Re the airing of Casablanca (1942) yesterday.  I actually watched it.  I end up doing so about once a year, because despite the adulation it gets, it's actually a good movie.  Something makes me wonder, though.  I think there's little doubt Rick and Ilsa slept together in Paris.  A vital love like theirs cannot grow or be maintained otherwise.  And it's hard to imagine Rick plunging into such an abyss of disillusion from something solely platonic.  But the night they reunite in his office in Casablanca, we see them kiss, but would that be all?  We see the tower with the rotating searchlight, not the usual surrogate for sex.  And later, as Ilsa recounts the parallel events to their affair, they are clothed.  That doesn't mean much, though, as it's not possible the censors would allow even the merest hint at undress.  But is it possible they could have gotten Paris back with only a kiss?

Or is is sacrilege to consider?

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15 minutes ago, slaytonf said:

Re the airing of Casablanca (1942) yesterday.  I actually watched it.  I end up doing so about once a year, because despite the adulation it gets, it's actually a good movie.  Something makes me wonder, though.  I think there's little doubt Rick and Ilsa slept together in Paris.  A vital love like theirs cannot grow or be maintained otherwise.  And it's hard to imagine Rick plunging into such an abyss of disillusion from something solely platonic.  But the night they reunite in his office in Casablanca, we see them kiss, but would that be all?  We see the tower with the rotating searchlight, not the usual surrogate for sex.  And later, as Ilsa recounts the parallel events to their affair, they are clothed.  That doesn't mean much, though, as it's not possible the censors would allow even the merest hint at undress.  But is it possible they could have gotten Paris back with only a kiss?

Or is is sacrilege to consider?

I don't think they had sex that night.   The reason is simple:   Ilsa is married to a man that is living,  and she loves that man.  

If she was to have had sex,  as a reflection that she loved Rick,  but not her husband,   then there would be no reason for her internal turmoil.    I.e.  she would have just told her husband she was leaving him for Rick. 

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Ilsa tells Rick in his office that night that she will never have the strength to leave him again.  She intends to stay with him, because the pull of her love for him is too strong.  Up to the last moment, she expects to stay in Casablanca with Rick, which is the basis for his hill-of-beans speech.

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49 minutes ago, slaytonf said:

Ilsa tells Rick in his office that night that she will never have the strength to leave him again.  She intends to stay with him, because the pull of her love for him is too strong.  Up to the last moment, she expects to stay in Casablanca with Rick, which is the basis for his hill-of-beans speech.

It is highly likely Ilsa just tells Rick that in order to save her husband from sure death.    One can't be sure that is how she really felt.    Clearly she was torn,   My view is that she didn't know what she wanted or how she really felt,  which is why she is a sympathetic character.      As for the ending;  my view is that Rick understands this as well.    He understand that having Paris was a thing of the past.    

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I always saw that segment as Ilsa  using Rick's love for her in the past as a way to get him to hand over the letters of transport to her.  I never considered them as having anything physical happen that night.    As you might recall, it seemed she figured if the past LOVE  didn't work, then maybe the GUN would!

Sepiatone

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14 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

One can't be sure that is how she really felt. 

I don't agree with this at all.  I think it's clear that Ilsa was admitting she loved Rick and that she expected to stay with him in Casablanca, which is why she's so shocked at the airport.

 

As to whether Rick and Ilsa had sex the night before, this may be one of the cases in which the Hays Code made for a better movie.  Did they?  Who knows?

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23 minutes ago, Vidor said:

I don't agree with this at all.  I think it's clear that Ilsa was admitting she loved Rick and that she expected to stay with him in Casablanca, which is why she's so shocked at the airport.

 

As to whether Rick and Ilsa had sex the night before, this may be one of the cases in which the Hays Code made for a better movie.  Did they?  Who knows?

I never said IIsa didn't love Rick.    I said she loved both men deeply.    Yea,  she was surprised by Rick's actions at the airport but that doesn't mean that she wanted to stay with Rick in Casablanca over going with her Husband on the plane to Lisbon and freedom.     

Again,  my point is that I have no point:   I.e.  I can see it going many different ways.   That it is intentionally ambiguous:  .  One can't be sure that is how she really felt.  

You instead have a definitive POV.    Ok,  but it doesn't me you don't agree with my POV, since  I have none.     One can't be sure that is how she really felt. 

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I feel we are not exploring the true mystery of "Casablanca", which is whether Peter Lorre was saying "De Gaulle" (which would make completely no sense) or "Weygand".

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