Jump to content
 
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...

Keep this channel an entertainment channel, please!


Kleb
 Share

Recommended Posts

22 minutes ago, Sepiatone said:

While on the subject(sorta) of labels, I'm trying to think of one for me.  "Centrist" and "Moderate" don't seem to suitably fit,  as I usually more or less slalom twixt the two sides instead of following any kind of "fixed" path.   But they'll do OK for now.

Sepiatone

Well, ya know Sepia, the even MORE enlightened centrists among us in the world, DO tend to lean ever so slightly to the Left on many but not all issues.  ;)

(...and so you're in good company here, ol' buddy!)

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

40 minutes ago, Sepiatone said:

While on the subject(sorta) of labels, I'm trying to think of one for me.  "Centrist" and "Moderate" don't seem to suitably fit,  as I usually more or less slalom twixt the two sides instead of following any kind of "fixed" path.   But they'll do OK for now.

Sepiatone

I believe that you may be one of the ultimate: Centrists. It has at all times been my impression that you live in your own little world and so it is natural that everything revolves around you. That is as it should be. 😏 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do my own thinking, thank you.  And don't adopt the thought processes of any ideology.   And don't think the world revolves around me, but some think so because I have my own mind and not dumb enough to succumb to "herd mentality" like seen in many "social media" outlets.  Even here.

Sepiatone

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If classic movies were statues, they would all be torn down today, regardless of what any host says to puff them up. This is what the Op means, so for those that appreciate history please leave the movies as an archive to be enjoyed, not as a propaganda tool.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, MovieMadness said:

If classic movies were statues, they would all be torn down today, regardless of what any host says to puff them up. This is what the Op means, so for those that appreciate history please leave the movies as an archive to be enjoyed, not as a propaganda tool.

Maybe some of them cannot be enjoyed anymore? Unless they are now a guilty pleasure?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/13/2021 at 7:15 PM, Dargo said:

First here Cid, the OP did in fact make it pretty darn clear what they didn't want to see on TCM. Read their post again and I'm pretty sure you'll see what they DON'T want to see on this channel are the TCM hosts doing things like their "history lessons" about "problematic" films which have run this past week. I'm SURE that THIS was why they were prompted to state their complaint. 

No, I do NOT think it had anything to do with the films TCM is showing of late, and because if it DID, I'm again sure that they would have mentioned not liking any movie presented made past the time the studio system ceased to exist, and which is of course another reoccurring theme that "One-Post Wonders" tend to come on here and complain about. This "OPW" just wanted to "be entertained" and I'm SURE not be "lectured to" and ESPECIALLY by whom they consider to be "Liberals" about the narratives contained within those "problematic" movies. You know, those Liberals who, as I'm ALSO sure the OP believes, have contributed to "America's moral decay" and "government overreach". And, I'm SURE of THIS because of their very last line in their OP and where they state: "As we watch our nation slowly sink into the abyss of moral decay and government control, preserve for us these treasured glimpses into years that are forever lost."

(...and, I'd be very VERY surprised IF our latest "OPW" here ever returns to clarifiy their thoughts for you, BUT now that I HAVE...you're welcome!)

I would venture a guess based on reading all of the blow back from members here that she may never come back. She still only has this one post. And I will also say that she is entitled to her viewpoint even though she offered no elaborate reasoning beyond her statement.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/16/2021 at 11:38 AM, Sepiatone said:

Well, since others here are dispensing pearls of platitudes, I'll join in and say that Ben wants to make sure nobody forgets about it because---

When people forget history, they run the risk of repeating it.

Or something like that....  ;) 

Sepiatone

Only problem is that a whole lot of people DO WANT to FORGET our history. Or at least the way a lot of us learned about our history.

Florida State University removed a statue of Francis Eppes VII, the former mayor of Tallahassee and grandson of Thomas Jefferson.

Protesters in Chicago tried to tear down a statue of Christopher Columbus. Statues of Presidents George Washington, Abraham Lincoln and William McKinley, as well as the Italian explorer Christopher Columbus, were among the 41 public statues and other commemorative markers identified on a list from Mayor Lori Lightfoot’s administration last year for further review as part of “a racial healing and historical reckoning project”.

A statue of President George Washington was vandalized and knocked down by seven people in Los Angeles.

All of this during the year 2020 alone.

According to an article from the Herald-Tribune...
 

Quote

 

Eppes, Columbus and Washington are just some of the latest victims of America’s toxic and uncontrollable “cancel culture.” And the list goes on. Cancel culture seeks to destroy a person or a company’s image based solely on personal disagreement. The movement first started in 2014, but it has now become a means for public attacks – all in the name of political and social "justice.” The cancel culture movement diminishes free thinking, creates a great divide and sets a poor example for future generations.

By canceling tangible reminders of those aspects of American history, which may be deemed “offensive” and “derogatory,” we cancel the opportunity for future generations to learn about our country and to learn from her past.

Cancel culture seeks to destroy a person or a company’s image based solely on personal disagreement. The movement first started in 2014, but it has now become a means for public attacks – all in the name of political and social "justice.” The cancel culture movement diminishes free thinking, creates a great divide and sets a poor example for future generations.

President Abraham Lincoln understood the dangers of a divided country, and the following statement has long been attributed to him:

“At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide."

Perhaps one of the most common victims of cancel culture is America herself. Recently there have been attacks made on the nation’s past, which are starting to diminish Americans’ pride in their country. The left is coming after our country in an attempt to erase any evidence of history that doesn’t align with the current status quo.

Each country has its flaws and its own history. That doesn’t mean that we should completely erase these historical moments from our memory. How are future generations expected to learn from past mistakes and ensure that history doesn’t repeat itself if we completely erase any evidence of our past?

 

 
Some examples...

Confederates? Forget them, they were traitors and losers. The founders of our country? Because many of them owned slaves... Shun them and forget them and remove all references to their names like from public institutions, buildings, parks and so on. Any reference to any group of people who may at one time or might still be a minority in this country because they as a whole have been used as an after thought through the years. Long ago dead writers? Those whose books and other articles are now considered racist because some of their books/articles may have contained somewhat offensive language towards a certain group.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Since Robert Osbourne passed away, the programming at TCM has taken a serious turn towards a disgusting political agenda.   I love old movies, and I love the context and history and trivia, but I am absolutely sickened by the OBSESSION lately with race and gender!

Since the very beginning, in 1994,  my TV has been tuned almost exclusively to TCM.   Once in a while I'll watch the Westerns Channel. but I find myself changing the channel more and more lately because of lousy movies -- ie,  NOT "classics" --  or the constant droning on and on about race this and gender that.   I'M SICK OF IT!!!    Get over your skin color, and get over your gender!

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Mikepete said:

I agree. I'm done watching TCM.  Ive stopped watching anything that pushes a political agenda.  

So you also stopped watching Fox News?    

Anyhow,  while this 18 film series isn't something I'll tune into to stop watching all of the fine American Studio Era movies,  uncut and without commercial interruptions,  would be silly.     I.e.  the movies are still the same,  so I see no reason to stop viewing TCM.

Also,  I provide NO additional funds to TCM.    So such a boycott would be rather pointless.   

Oh well,  to each his own.     

PS:  such a boycott is exactly what the PCers want.    This was discussed yesterday;  that many PCers wanted TCM to show films with NON-PC scenes edited out but that of  course TCM would NOT do that.    So again,  not watching the films is doing exactly what the PCers want and thus they "win".   I find it hard to believe you want them to "win".   

 

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK  sure...

I might understand the Columbus and Washington thing(to some limited degree).  But LINCOLN?   What's the beef with him?  :huh:

And that last sentence up there bothers me because "some of their books/articles may have contained somewhat offensive language towards a certain group."  

That's assuming all use of that "somewhat offensive" language was intended to offend when indeed it just may have been to illustrate how certain people (or book characters) thought and spoke in the times or instances of the writing.  Like, Mark Twain's use of racist slurs to bring attention to certain characters in a few of his books wasn't because of any inherent bigotry on his part.  But the characters saying those things were that bigoted. 

Oh, and here in Detroit they recently changed the name of COBO HALL/CENTER and Arena because the fact that the past mayor the center was named for was racist came to light. (Albert E. Cobo/mayor of Detroit 1950-'57)  Built in 1961, the center's name was changed to TCF center  within the last couple years.

Sepiatone

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/18/2021 at 2:56 PM, fxreyman said:

Only problem is that a whole lot of people DO WANT to FORGET our history. Or at least the way a lot of us learned about our history.

Florida State University removed a statue of Francis Eppes VII, the former mayor of Tallahassee and grandson of Thomas Jefferson.

Protesters in Chicago tried to tear down a statue of Christopher Columbus. Statues of Presidents George Washington, Abraham Lincoln and William McKinley, as well as the Italian explorer Christopher Columbus, were among the 41 public statues and other commemorative markers identified on a list from Mayor Lori Lightfoot’s administration last year for further review as part of “a racial healing and historical reckoning project”.

A statue of President George Washington was vandalized and knocked down by seven people in Los Angeles.

All of this during the year 2020 alone.

. . .

Some examples...

Confederates? Forget them, they were traitors and losers. The founders of our country? Because many of them owned slaves... Shun them and forget them and remove all references to their names like from public institutions, buildings, parks and so on. Any reference to any group of people who may at one time or might still be a minority in this country because they as a whole have been used as an after thought through the years. Long ago dead writers? Those whose books and other articles are now considered racist because some of their books/articles may have contained somewhat offensive language towards a certain group.

There's a difference between forgetting history and, on the other hand, choosing to cease honoring people who did things that we no longer feel are worth honoring.

I live in a southern state where there are a lot of statues honoring Confederates -- or, at least, there were until recently.  In the county where I live, for example, a statue of a Confederate soldier stood in front of the county courthouse -- on public land, owned by all of us.  In our state capital, which once served as the capital of the Confederacy, there were numerous statues of Confederate leaders in heroic poses.    These were people who were literally traitors to the US, who fought against the country.  Their goal was to preserve slavery, even if it meant breaking up our country.  (Some have characterized their goal as preservation of "states' rights."  What did they want the states to have the "right" to do?  Preserve slavery.)

These Confederate statues are not, themselves, "history."  They're meant to honor, and I would say glorify, the people they depict.  These people took part in historical events, yes, but the statues themselves are not part of those events.  The choice to put up each statue was made, in most cases, long after the historical events that the depicted people took part in.  Many of the statues were erected by, and in some cases are still owned by, groups that were formed explicitly to honor the Confederacy.  (That was the case with the statue at our county courthouse.)   

Yet, as long as these statues still stand, we are continuing to honor those people.  We're also continuing to accept decisions about whom to honor that were made by people who are no longer living in most cases.  Why should people today have to accept a decision to honor Confederates that was made by people who lived in, say, 1900?  Shouldn't we be able to make our own decisions about whether Confederates are still worth honoring with statues?  Until quite recently, our society was willing to let these old statues remain where they are.  But lately, many people have changed their opinion about that, or have started to pay more attention to the issue and have formed an opinion for the first time.  If we, as a society, now decide that Confederates are not worth honoring with statues on public land, why shouldn't we take down the statues?

History isn't being forgotten if we remove some statues.  No one is saying that we can't read books or watch documentaries about the Confederacy, if that's what we want to do.   We can visit Civil War battlefields and other historical sites.  The history is still out there to be learned by anyone who's interested.  We're just not honoring certain people with statues.

I personally miss the statue that was in front of our courthouse, because it had been there a long time, and I like old things.  But I'm glad it's gone.  I don't think it was right to honor Confederate soldiers who fought to preserve racial inequality with a statue in front of our courthouse, where everyone is supposed to receive equal justice under the law.  (And what about honoring the county residents who didn't fight for the Confederacy.  Even though part of our county refused to secede with the rest of the state and contributed to Union forces, there's no statue honoring local Union soldiers -- who, in my opinion, are worth honoring.)  I also have serious doubts about removing statues of people like Washington and Jefferson, who had major flaws as slave owners but, in my opinion, deserve to be honored for founding our country based on their principles of democracy and equality -- crucial principles that exceeded the personal flaws of these men.

To get back to the point, no one is saying that we can't watch Gone With The Wind, which depicts the Confederacy, or other movies that depict or express outdated ways of thinking.  To me, there's still a lot of value in movies that are imperfect in some ways.  (And what movie isn't imperfect in at least a small way?)  Sure, I wish the blackface numbers had been left out of Swing Time or Holiday Inn in the first place, but I still love those movies for their strong entertainment value -- singing, dancing, humor -- and wouldn't want anything removed from them, even parts that I find personally offensive.  If TCM wants to set these movies in historical context by hosting a discussion about them, I'll be glad to learn more.  But if someone doesn't want to hear the discussion, they can skip it and just watch the movie.  TCM is still showing these movies and has explicitly said, through their commentators, that it's important to keep showing them, unedited.

 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can't warm up to any of the "new" hosts.  They seem smug and arrogant.  Maybe I feel this way because I've seen their self-serving mutual admiration society commercials in between films too many times. I dearly miss Robert Osborne.  He loved classic films and by all appearances, was able to overlook their imperfections and celebrate what was good about them.  If the other hosts ever loved these films, this love has gotten lost in their quest to right the wrongs of political incorrectness.  If they aren't the ones ultimately driving the witch hunt, they are certainly on the bandwagon.  Dave Karger is the only one who comes close to RO's style.  If the hosts and those behind the curtain pulling the strings can't get over being offended, I daresay they are working for the wrong network because these movies are incapable of changing.

Any movie is going to have something someone can deem offensive.  Classic movies in particular were made during an era before minorities and woman came into their own.  It's simply the way it is. Movies of this time may have overtones of racism or sexism, but they weren't made solely as propaganda pieces in order to keep black people enslaved or women barefoot and pregnant. Nowadays, I seriously doubt anyone on the lunatic fringe even watches TCM and nobody reasonable is going to smack their forehead after watching GWTW and say, 'Ya know, bringing back slavery looks like a great idea!'  They are wasting their time preaching to the choir.

Aside from PBS occasionally, TCM is the only channel I watch.  I haven't watched a TV series in decades.  I do not watch reality shows, game shows, talent contests, or cable news.  I watch TCM because I can't tolerate what passes for entertainment in the modern age.  After a long day, I want to be able to put my feet up and relax with an old film.  No matter how little time it takes, I don't want to sit through a lecture on why this movie or that contains inappropriate content and why I should be offended by it.   I'm able to think for myself. I don't need TCM to educate me.  

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would first like to say that I have watched TCM from day 1 and TMC before that and anyplace playing old b&w movies from the 30s 40s and 50s. A major fan of TCM. I am also of partial Native American descent. That said, I take some exception with the editorializing of the Searchers. With all the racist remarks about Ethan Edward's  I felt I should also give my opinion. There was no talk by hosts of the fact Edward's entire family was massacred by these Indians, or the fact that there were Ckovis people here before the Indians, which massacred the Clovis people in a very successful genocide. Unlike the genocide promoted by our now "woke" hosts. There were thousands of indian raids resulting in innocent settlers being massacred throughout the 17 and 1800s. The influx of European settlers was overwhelming the east coast so westward was the cure. Hindsight is always 20/20 and the situation could have been handled better, I suppose. But calling Ethan Edward's a racist is nothing more than "virtue signaling" your new found "wokeness".

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said:
Quote

So you also stopped watching Fox News?    

Anyhow,  while this 18 film series isn't something I'll tune into to stop watching all of the fine American Studio Era movies,  uncut and without commercial interruptions,  would be silly.     I.e.  the movies are still the same,  so I see no reason to stop viewing TCM.

Also,  I provide NO additional funds to TCM.    So such a boycott would be rather pointless.   

Oh well,  to each his own.     

PS:  such a boycott is exactly what the PCers want.    This was discussed yesterday;  that many PCers wanted TCM to show films with NON-PC scenes edited out but that of  course TCM would NOT do that.    So again,  not watching the films is doing exactly what the PCers want and thus they "win".   I find it hard to believe you want them to "win".   

 

 

I suppose you also meant to write MSNBC and CNN?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Sepiatone said:

Still bears explanation.  Like, source of this viewpoint.

Sepiatone

While I was at the hotel to-day, an elderly gentleman called upon me to know whether I was really in favor of producing perfect equality between the negroes and white people. While I had not proposed to myself on this occasion to say much on that subject, yet as the question was asked me, I thought I would occupy perhaps five minutes in saying something in regard to it. I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied every thing. I do not understand that because I do not want a negro woman for a slave I must necessarily want her for a wife. My understanding is that I can just let her alone. I am now in my fiftieth year, and I certainly never had a black woman for either a slave or a wife. So it seems to me quite possible for us to get along without making either slaves or wives of negroes. I will add to this that I have never seen, to my knowledge, a man, woman, or child who was in favor of producing a perfect equality, social and political, between negroes and white men... I have never had the least apprehension that I or my friends would marry negroes if there was no law to keep them from it, but as Judge Douglas and his friends seem to be in great apprehension that they might, if there were no law to keep them from it, I give him the most solemn pledge that I will to the very last stand by the law of this State, which forbids the marrying of white people with negroes. Fourth Lincoln-Douglas Debate (Charleston, 18 September 1858)

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/18/2021 at 8:51 AM, Dargo said:

Well, ya know Sepia, the even MORE enlightened centrists among us in the world, DO tend to lean ever so slightly to the Left on many but not all issues.  ;)

(...and so you're in good company here, ol' buddy!)

Well, many of us "centrists" lean both ways depending on the topic. Or lean neither way because in real life there are more than two choices.

On 3/18/2021 at 9:46 AM, MovieMadness said:

If classic movies were statues, they would all be torn down today, regardless of what any host says to puff them up. This is what the Op means, so for those that appreciate history please leave the movies as an archive to be enjoyed, not as a propaganda tool.

I've never been comfortable with statues of anyone. People are imperfect beings. In today's age, we know so much about everyone. Its very easy to find dirt on any person and slam them the moment they do something you dislike. So why bother ?

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, GGGGerald said:

Classic example of "Its not what you say, its what you do"

Very true. That's why I laughed a few weeks ago about a talking head on Newsmax who

said that although Washington and Jefferson had slaves, they were against slavery. Big deal.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

© 2022 Turner Classic Movies Inc. All Rights Reserved Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Cookie Settings
×
×
  • Create New...