Jump to content
 
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...

Keep this channel an entertainment channel, please!


Kleb
 Share

Recommended Posts

On 3/12/2021 at 9:00 PM, TopBilled said:

I don't think the original poster is interested in vegetating. She is interested in having her conservative views reflected on TCM and wants a liberal progressive agenda pushed off the screen. The hosts' commentaries are disturbing her.

Of course she could mute the commentaries, or fast-forward over them. Or maybe use the schedule to tune in to those times TCM is broadcasting movies that are morally acceptable to her.

We don't know if she will remain a "one-post wonder"...or as I call it, a hit-and-run poster. 

We've seen these outbursts before and they're tedious. TCM has a political agenda and it won't be swayed. All the whinging in the world is not going to change this.

Now before I get started writing this response to you I need to be perfectly clear with you...

This is NOT an attack on you or towards you in any way. Nor am I trying to be unfair towards you or unruly in any way. I am just posting my thoughts about how you tend to respond to certain posters who seem to show up and make one comment and might then disappear, or other posters who have been here longer and decides to make these kinds of comments.

It is also meant to show you that these "one-hit wonders" may feel a bit nervous when they voice their concerns and may feel like that because they may get negative blow back, they never post again. And that is sad. They may have a viewpoint that runs counter to what you believe, but I think that they are missing out on having an otherwise great experience posting here.

Now, on to my comments...

I am sorry Top, but when I read your comments like this above, I truly find them troubling. You seem to always want to point out someone's conservative or "right-winger's" viewpoints when they may suggest that a certain progressive way of introducing and talking about films needs to be reduced or eliminated all together.

First of all this is their viewpoint.

And I believe that if they feel the need to come on this message board to express their views, they have every right to do so without fear of incrimination, or personal attacks as it relates to their own political viewpoints.

You also wrote the following in another post:
 

Quote

 

I think the original poster is saying this is about entertainment (or wanting to be entertained) but it's about politics

These types of people think classic film means old films, and that old films are supposed to represent a simpler time. But there was never a simpler time. 

They're threatened that liberals are pushing ahead and their way of life is now challenged. Their way of ignorance is now challenged.

 

Not everyone who posts on these threads are liberal in their way of thinking. And the same can be applied to not being conservative.

My own belief about the OP is that they may be conservative in their politics. But does this really matter to you? Should it really matter to any of us?

What if they are liberal and they feel this way? They may just feel that a movie channel that shows movies and has done so well for years should not now be showing opinions about the movies they want to watch. They may feel that the way Robert Osborne presented the films was the only real and honest way to introduce the films. Because he knew so much about old Hollywood, and that he had that connection, a connection was made with the viewer and they were comforted by his knowledge and expertise without being preachy.

And if it matters that much to you, could not another member feel the same way about how you express yourself? How you identify with your political views?

As far as their ignorance being challenged, I think that is over the top (pun). Everyone has some sort or kind of ignorance about any number of topics or views. But I do not believe you need to point this out in a public forum.

I agree to what Dargo wrote. They come to TCM to be entertained. They may want to vegetate in front of their flat screen and enjoy a movie or movies. They do not want to be lectured to, nor do they want to see ANY agenda being forced upon them.

I agree with skipd55 when they wrote that the viewer can simply mute the intro and outros. They can also just watch what they consider to be "family" type films.

We all have the power to decide what we are going to watch and what types of information will be presented to us. At least I do.

I enjoy listening to different viewpoints. I enjoy reading what others who may have a different political belief than I have.

I have always been this way. It's called being respectful of anothers viewpoints or beliefs. Now you may disagree with what the OP wrote, but at least be respectful of what they wrote. You can disagree with it without labeling the person a conservative or a right winger.

I will say this:

I definitely enjoy reading what you have to say. I don't always agree with what you write, but clearly you are an informed fan of the movies and I respect that. I think you have written that you have a degree in film studies from where? USC or UCLA or something. Now if that is the case, then that is quite the accomplishment. And you should be proud of that.

You and I have had our struggles and disagreements before, but that is true with almost everyone here on the message boards. I only hope you and others read this as comments rather than an attack on your character. Their is nothing wrong with your character. You should have the right to your opinions and share those opinions with the rest of us. But sometimes, those opinions go a little to far.

Just my take.

Rey

 

 

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Movie Lovers said:

It’s the hosts responsibility to stick to the job of explaining the history and any other relative facts regarding the movie. 

I think that is what they were doing. The Searchers has a long history as an example of racism in what is considered a great film. To show this film and provide extra context and information is the opposite of cancel culture. Information not opinion. If you don’t see the racism, that’s fine, but it doesn’t mean it isn’t there. What about the Mickey Rooney character in Breakfast at Tiffany’s? Do you see it there?

  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Last night after watching a DVR'd movie I caught the ad for TCM's showing of these "woke" violating films with the host's yakkity yakking about the "troubling" scenes of  black face or scenes of slavery in GONE WITH THE WIND. ...blah, blah, blah.

I don't know who they're talking to? Those of us who are devoted TCM viewers know all this stuff already. We know Al Jolson performed in black face and Astaire did too. We've all seen GWTW 20 times and we know about Hattie McDaniel. Sheesh....are they trying to tell us because we appreciate these movies that we shouldn't? Are they talking to people who do not watch TCM that TCM is woke and they should watch TCM because they show these movies purposefully to show these troubling scenes and there's lots of other movies that are not racist, homophobic, misogynistic drivel?

If they ran their ads on CNN or MSNBC I'd say they were. But running the promos on their own station where only their most devoted viewers are likely to see them is, IMHO, them trying to deflect criticism of the movies they show that they know their audience wants to see. Basically, they're telling the world we know these movies are R, H and M but that's our audience and you should condemn them, not us.

It's pathetic. All they're doing is alienating us....their core constituency.   

 

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/27/2021 at 7:07 PM, MrMagoo said:

Last night after watching a DVR'd movie I caught the ad for TCM's showing of these "woke" violating films with the host's yakkity yakking about the "troubling" scenes of  black face or scenes of slavery in GONE WITH THE WIND. ...blah, blah, blah.

I don't know who they're talking to? Those of us who are devoted TCM viewers know all this stuff already. We know Al Jolson performed in black face and Astaire did too. We've all seen GWTW 20 times and we know about Hattie McDaniel. Sheesh....are they trying to tell us because we appreciate these movies that we shouldn't? Are they talking to people who do not watch TCM that TCM is woke and they should watch TCM because they show these movies purposefully to show these troubling scenes and there's lots of other movies that are not racist, homophobic, misogynistic drivel?

If they ran their ads on CNN or MSNBC I'd say they were. But running the promos on their own station where only their most devoted viewers are likely to see them is, IMHO, them trying to deflect criticism of the movies they show that they know their audience wants to see. Basically, they're telling the world we know these movies are R, H and M but that's our audience and you should condemn them, not us.

It's pathetic. All they're doing is alienating us....their core constituency.   

 

 

Get a grip, maybe, just maybe  they are doing it for children or young adults who have never been exposed to this stuff. Here is a senario.  Asian kids just flipping through the cable channels come across some TCM film that just may catch their interest, its cool so they watch it to the end, they liked it. They stay on the channel up next is Breakfast at Tiffany's. Or some Black kids are watching something that catches their interest and they watch it through to the end and the next film is Gone With The Wind, See where I'm coming from? These are not for us but for those innocents never exposed to the past culture which they are not remotely familiar with. 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, MrMagoo said:

Last night after watching a DVR'd movie I caught the ad for TCM's showing of these "woke" violating films with the host's yakkity yakking about the "troubling" scenes of  black face or scenes of slavery in GONE WITH THE WIND. ...blah, blah, blah.

I don't know who they're talking to? Those of us who are devoted TCM viewers know all this stuff already. We know Al Jolson performed in black face and Astaire did too. We've all seen GWTW 20 times and we know about Hattie McDaniel. Sheesh....are they trying to tell us because we appreciate these movies that we shouldn't? Are they talking to people who do not watch TCM that TCM is woke and they should watch TCM because they show these movies purposefully to show these troubling scenes and there's lots of other movies that are not racist, homophobic, misogynistic drivel?

If they ran their ads on CNN or MSNBC I'd say they were. But running the promos on their own station where only their most devoted viewers are likely to see them is, IMHO, them trying to deflect criticism of the movies they show that they know their audience wants to see. Basically, they're telling the world we know these movies are R, H and M but that's our audience and you should condemn them, not us.

It's pathetic. All they're doing is alienating us....their core constituency.   

 

 

I've seen TCM ads on this effort run on CNN.

There must be some newer/younger TCM viewers that have never seen some of these films.   The only demographic I have to go on are the attendees at the TCM Film Festivals.   While the majority of them are 40+, I'd say 20-25% of those attendees are younger than that, in most of the screenings I've attended.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/27/2021 at 9:50 AM, fxreyman said:

...these "one-hit wonders" may feel a bit nervous when they voice their concerns and may feel like that because they may get negative blow back, they never post again. And that is sad.

Sorry Rey, but I'm going to disagree with you on this...this idea that these one-post-wonders might have been, lets say "intimidated" by any negative responses they receive and thus the reason why we never hear from them again.

Nope, ya see I have a very VERY strong belief here that MOST often the reason these one-post-wonders do NOT return to this site and then continue with some further discourse regarding their "complaints" is that in MOST cases these are people who just wanted their "complaint" recorded and noted. And, that generally these one-post-wonders have decided beforehand that THAT is "the way they feel about it" and so any FURTHER discussion about their complaint by the assembled here would just be a waste of their time and efforts.

Ya see, whenever discourse happens, there's sometimes the possiblity that someone's opinion could change or soften a bit (wait, let me put that in bold type here), but these one-post-wonders will have NONE of THAT, and be they "Liberals" or "Conservatives". However, I'm sorry to say here that I've noticed that it's the latter group which tends to be and act more in the above manner than the former, and in many other instances and in many other regards.

Well, that is UNTIL this whole damn simpleminded "Woke" phenomenon has come about anyway, and so NOW it seems even Liberals can be as damn closed-minded as their political counterparts.

(...signed: Your Centrist Friend, Dargo) ;)

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Dargo said:

Sorry Rey, but I'm going to disagree with you on this...this idea that these one-post-wonders might have been, lets say "intimidated" by any negative responses they receive and thus the reason why we never hear from them again.

Nope, ya see I have a very VERY strong belief here that MOST often the reason these one-post-wonders do NOT return to this site and then continue with some further discourse regarding their "complaints" is that in MOST cases these are people who just wanted their "complaint" recorded and noted. And, that generally these one-post-wonders have decided beforehand that THAT is "the way they feel about it" and so any FURTHER discussion about their complaint by the assembled here would just be a waste of their time and efforts.

Ya see, whenever discourse happens, there's sometimes the possiblity that someone's opinion could change or soften a bit (wait, let me put that in bold type here), but these one-post-wonders will have NONE of THAT, and be they "Liberals" or "Conservatives". However, I'm sorry to say here that I've noticed that it's the latter group which tends to be and act more in the above manner than the former, and in many other instances and in many other regards.

Well, that is UNTIL this whole damn simpleminded "Woke" phenomenon has come about anyway, and so NOW it seems even Liberals can be as damn closed-minded as their political conterparts.

(...signed: Your Centrist Friend, Dargo) ;)

Just finished my 71/2 hour Uber drive for the night. 8PM to 5AM. Just home now.

You may be right Dargo. I don't know. Makes sense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

THE SEARCHERS is the true story of Cynthia Ann Parker.  The time was 1836. The Comanche  Indians raided the fort where the Parker’s lived with many other families. After killing nearly every person, young, old, male and female, inside the fort, the Indians captured 6 people alive; one of them was Cynthia Ann Parker, she was 9 years old. Her remaining family members searched for her for 24 years. She was found and returned to white civilization at the age of 33. She had been the wife of a warrior and the mother of two; a boy and a girl. Upon being returned to white civilization, Cynthia Ann’s baby daughter died.  Her son became the great Chief Quanah...responsible for the eventual peace between the Comanches with other tribes, and white settlers. But, returning Cynthia Ann to her white relatives would turn out to be a very sad and bad decision. She returned to the white world only to die in misery and obscurity.  John Wayne’s character, Ethan Edwards, had lived on the open range and had seen first-hand what happened, particularly to women captives, ...it wasn’t good.  Ethan had also seen the dangers and heartache that returning a captive to white society usually brought to the captives, as well as the heartbroken families. He knew women were subjected to HORRIBLE treatment. He knew it changed them into animals who no longer spoke English, or slept in beds, or bathed, or cared for the white relatives they had left behind and usually forgotten.  He had witnessed things that had hardened his heart and made him hate the Indians. In no way do his feelings correlate to the RACISM accusations being bandied about today...65 years after The Searchers movie was made, and 185 years after the real-life capture of Cynthia Ann Parker by the Comanches.  PLEASE, TCM and hosts, don’t fall in with the ugly cancel culture crowd!  History MUST be studied to understand why, if possible, people thought differently, acted differently, spoke differently and lived differently then, than we do today in 2021. Please consider reading the true story of Cynthia Ann Parker in “THE SEARCHERS”, by Glenn Frankel, published in 2013, by Bloomsbury Publishers.  This book will open your eyes to a world we cannot understand today, because we have evolved (yet, I’m not very pleased in 2021 what we’ve evolved into).  After reading this book I set out to read and understand the true stories of other captives - many, many true accounts exist in books and manuscripts. There are also more books about Cynthia Ann, as well as her son, Quanah.  And finally, did the white settlers treat the American Indians fairly?  In most cases...NO.  My heart breaks when I read about our treatment of American Indians and our claim to the lands that had belonged to them solely for hundreds of years.  When reading about the white man’s push across the country to the west, one must try to understand the settlers’ belief in “Manifest Destiny”.  In every country on earth, human kind has mistreated other peoples to make gains for themselves.  It wasn’t and isn’t right; but, we MUST not place the (sometimes misguided) values and ways of thinking of today—no matter what year today is — with the values and thought processes of those who came before us.  If we don’t take the time to educate ourselves and the future generations of where we came from, we cannot possible understand where we’re going.
Ben Mankiewicz, you made a commercial for TCM once that said exactly why I’ve watched TCM from day-one. You said, and I paraphrase, ‘it’s kinda nice to escape the real world and slip away to another time and place’.  I don’t ever want to lose the opportunity to do just that! (Attached is a real-life photo of Cynthia Ann Parker, who is portrayed by Natalie Wood, in THE SEARCHERS.)

E4E6F12F-69C8-44AA-9475-2DFEBD7DD1B6.jpeg

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Stitcher927 said:

THE SEARCHERS is the true story of Cynthia Ann Parker.  The time was 1836. The Comanche  Indians raided the fort where the Parker’s lived with many other families. After killing nearly every person, young, old, male or female, inside the fort, the Indians captured 6 people alive; one of them was Cynthia Ann Parker, she was 9 years old. Her remaining family members searched for her for 24 years. She was found and returned to white civilization at the age of 33. She had been the wife of warrior and the mother of two; a boy and a girl. The boy became the great Chief Quanah...responsible for the eventual peace between the Comanches and other tribes, and the white settlers. But, returning Cynthia Ann to her white relatives would turn out to be a bad decision on the part of her family. She returned to the white world only to die in misery and obscurity.  John Wayne’s character, Ethan Edwards,  had lived on the open range and had seen first hand what happened to women, in particular, and all captives in general...it wasn’t pretty or good. His character, Ethan, had also seen the dangers and heartache that returning a captive to white society usually brought to the captives as well as the heartbroken families. He knew women were subjected to HORRIBLE treatment. He knew it changed them into animals who no longer spoke English, or slept in beds, or bathed, or cared for the white relatives they left behind.  He had witnessed things that had hardened his heart and made him hate the Indians. In no way do his feelings correlate to the RACISM accusations being bandied about today...65 years after The Searchers movie was made, and 185 years after the real-life capture of Cynthia Ann Parker by the Comanche Indians in West Texas.  PLEASE, TCM and announcers, don’t fall in with the ugly cancel culture crowd!  History MUST be studied to understand why, if possible, people thought differently, acted differently, spoke differently and lived differently then than we do today, in 2021. Please consider reading the true story of Cynthia Ann Parker in “THE SEARCHERS”, by Glenn Frankel, published in 2013, by Bloomsbury Publishers.  This book will open your eyes to a world we cannot understand today, because we have evolved (yet, I’m not very pleased in 2021 what we’ve evolved into). After reading this book I set out to read and understand the true stories of other captives - many, many true accounts exist in books and manuscripts. There are also more books about Cynthia Ann, as well as her son, Quanah.  And finally, did the white colonists and settlers treat the American Indians fairly?  In most cases...no. My heart breaks when I read about our treatment of American Indians and our claim of the lands that had belonged to them solely for hundreds of years.  When reading about the white man’s push across the country to the west coast, one must try to understand the settlers’ belief in “Manifest Destiny”. In every country on earth, human kind has mistreated other peoples to make gains for themselves.  It wasn’t and isn’t right; but, we MUST not place the (sometimes misguided) values and way of thinking of today—no matter what year today is — with the values and thought process of those who came before us.  If we don’t take the time to educate ourselves and the future generations of where we came from, we cannot possible understand where we’re going.
Ben Mankiewicz, you made a commercial for TCM once that said exactly why I’ve watched TCM since day-one. You said, and I paraphrase, ‘it’s kinda nice to escape the worries of today and slip away to another time and place’.  I don’t ever want to lose the opportunity to do just that! (Attached is a real-life photo of Cynthia Ann Parker, who is portrayed by Natalie Wood, in THE SEARCHERS.)

E4E6F12F-69C8-44AA-9475-2DFEBD7DD1B6.jpeg

Thanks for taking the time to compose this thoughtful post. 

The thing is, about slipping away to another time and place...I think TCM feels that is okay as long as it done with present-day eyes that are politically correct.

The TCM hosts and programmers do not see this as cancel culture. They see this is a highly evolved multi-culture. And of course TCM is run by liberals with an ultra-liberal agenda. So conservative viewers have to suck it up or find another place to watch films with commentary in alignment with their politics.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, TopBilled said:

Thanks for taking the time to compose this thoughtful post. 

The thing is, about slipping away to another time and place...I think TCM feels that is okay as long as it done with present-day eyes that are politically correct.

The TCM hosts and programmers do not see this as cancel culture. They see this is a highly evolved multi-culture. And of course TCM is run by liberals with an ultra-liberal agenda. So conservative viewers have to suck it up or find another place to watch films with commentary in alignment with their politics.

Which is why I still say we do not need the commentaries on these types of movies.  And we should not have to avoid them in order to watch the movies.

Once this cancel culture, woke movement began it quickly careened off course into bias and repression of other viewpoints.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, ElCid said:

Once this cancel culture, woke movement began it quickly careened off course into bias and repression of other viewpoints.

Just you using those terms shows that the right wing propaganda megaphone is working

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, cigarjoe said:

Just you using those terms shows that the right wing propaganda megaphone is working

So true.     The only so called "canceling" I see is those that wish to cancel this TCM series.

TCM didn't do any canceling;   Instead TCM showed the films,  uncut and unedited.     

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, cigarjoe said:

Just you using those terms shows that the right wing propaganda megaphone is working

Wrong.  I don't watch or read much right wing media and always with a lot of skepticism when I do.  The "woke" and "cancel culture" movements have moved from reasonable to almost total bias against certain other types of culture.  Facts are facts.

Incidentally, I am a moderate/liberal Democrat and have been since age 21 when I first voted.  All the way back to contributing to Gene McCarthy and George McGovern presidential campaigns.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

So true.     The only so called "canceling" I see is those that wish to cancel this TCM series.

TCM didn't do any canceling;   Instead TCM showed the films,  uncut and unedited.     

 

But they joined in with the "woke" and "cancel culture" bias in order to grossly diminish the movies they showed.  They placed their political interpretations on the movies and interpreted them as being primarily prejudiced, biased and wrong.  Therefore, viewers are basically told that we shouldn't enjoy this type movie. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Roy Cronin said:

I haven't allowed anyone on TCM to diminish my enjoyment of many of the films in question. 

That's good. However, TCM may not choose to air films you enjoy if they do not fit the channel's themes (especially themes that align with liberal political aims or champion directors and actors known for their liberalism). 

TCM programmers and hosts are in charge of the content, how it is presented and how frequently it is presented. Not the viewer.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think some people are missing out on the real reason TCM is doing all this. It is not to educate anyone, but it is so the channel can justify it's existence now. Imagine waking up one day and finding out that everything you have built up for years is now considered to be "racist" or "out of touch" with today's "progressive Democrats"? What to do?

Well, how about an "educational" series on how out of touch these old movies are, and how dastardly the old actors were in those days. Shame on them for doing what the studios said.

BTW it is never pointed out how the Democrat party was as behind this as any other back then. Just like it was FDR that interned Japanese during WW2, or a Democrat dropped atomic bombs on them as well. Had a Republican done it that would be pointed out continuously for ages and ages just like they do with "blacklisting".

Anyway, as far as these movies they selected goes, they are a drop in the bucket to how many exist and were watched (and TCM shows constantly) without "warnings" to youngsters. Having hosts try to preach to viewers is like a coffee shop telling customers how bad the coffee is. That's where this station is at, so watch it and admire the meltdown.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, MovieMadness said:

Democrat party

 

This is a tell.

 

****

 

Of course, it's also revealing in its own way how Republicans immediately view discussion of racism in old movies through a partisan lens, as an attack on them.

  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Of course, the right has for years griped about Hollywood and the entertainment business in general  being a "haven" for extreme "liberalism".  And I'll agree that the "biz" has usually been on the left of many social and political issues, which makes it ridiculous to me that recently the Academy,  also an entertainment "entity"  has been accused of racism.  All because there weren't enough Oscar nominations going to enough African-American actors, actresses and film makers.  When actually, it was most likely due to the fact that not enough African-American actors, actresses and film makers turned in enough Oscar worthy work.

Sepiatone

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/3/2021 at 10:55 AM, Vidor said:

 

What a crock of nonsense.

 

The "extreme liberal agenda", as it happens, per the Democratic Socialists of America:

https://www.dsausa.org

 

The Green New Deal, Medicare for All, the Protecting the Right to Organize Act,

https://www.dsausa.org/statements/national-priorities-prioridades-nacionales/

 

And other stuff that one may, or may not, support.

 

However, a search of dsa.org for "Gone with the Wind" produces no results.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

© 2022 Turner Classic Movies Inc. All Rights Reserved Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Cookie Settings
×
×
  • Create New...