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rohanaka

A Walk on the Noir Side

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And you seem to always have plenty of those items on hand!

 

And I believe RedRiver's "milk" joke was about Webb's only wanting milk when Susan offers him a drink. He's a sweet and innocent boy... like me!

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> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}

> And you seem to always have plenty of those items on hand!

>

 

GArlic is my favorite ingredient to cook with. :)

 

> And I believe RedRiver's "milk" joke was about Webb's only wanting milk when Susan offers him a drink. He's a sweet and innocent boy... like me!

 

Oh!! I forgot about that! He really is like Johnny. :D

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I'm watching Out of the Fog, and it occurs to me that the Ida Lupino, Eddie Albert, John Garfield part is exactly the same as Clash By Night.

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Oh wow! You're right! She's drawn to the bad boy, the one who reads her desires. Eddie takes her for granted. He's good, but he doesn't excite her.

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> {quote:title=MissGoddess wrote:}{quote}

> Oh wow! You're right! She's drawn to the bad boy, the one who reads her desires. Eddie takes her for granted. He's good, but he doesn't excite her.

 

Eddie doesn't see Ida.... he is blind to her desires, just as Paul Douglas was to Stany's....it's almost as if a woman was never to have desires of her own, just be content with taking care of her man.

 

Is Out of the Fog about Hitler? It's like the anti-Goodbye Mr. Chips. I remember thinking about this the last time I saw it - it's so prescient.

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Yes, Eddie is clueless.

 

It does seem to have anti-fascist overtones. I like how Tommy Mitchell and John Qualen get to play the "little guys" defending their piece of life. They're scared but they won't lie down anymore.

 

And I love that Stella (Ida) comes to appreciate her father. She really is fortunate in him. And he grows, he appreciates she's grown up now.

 

Edited by: MissGoddess on Sep 24, 2010 7:53 PM

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Tommy Mitchell got me again! That last line of his could have been so cloying, but he does something indefinable that twists my heart....

 

I guess it isn't noir. If it were, it would start when they killed Goff. :D

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THE PROWLER SPOILED

 

Hello, Webb,

 

I'm definitely a prowler!

 

I'm not sure. The way he was sizing up the place made me think her money was always in the back of his mind. Certainly after he saw the Will.

 

I started to rewatch the film, last night, and you're right about his dream of wanting an easy life. He definitely had his mind on money. I don't think it was the reason why he wanted Susan, but, as you say, it was in the back of his mind. He wanted to be a "John."

 

Isn't that an ultimate film noir character?

 

Yes. And I do see where you are getting the Harry Fabian vibe. He finally gets his piece of the pie and it quickly crumbles.

 

Yes, and both of Evelyn's marriages were ultimately based on shifty reasons. Security only in the first one, and passion only in the second.

 

You're right about that. We seem to see this in so many films. I guess we guys can never be the total package. I'm neither!

 

I think any feelings she had about John were based on guilt.

 

I believe you're correct. That's really cold, too.

 

Even Webb is like that. It's really all about him.

 

It sure seemed like that. I want to see how that plays again in my second viewing.

 

I have to see it again. I just thought he could get out of there fast enough.

 

He was itchy. His partner's wife (Katherine Warren) knew what was up. She knew Webb really wasn't listening. He was humoring her husband. And I loved that her husband (John Maxwell) gave her a pat on the behind!

 

It's creepy; you should pay attention to that marksman target. This is what makes his demise so ironic. He couldn't separate himself from his gun. It was a part of him, and so of course, he died by one.

 

He couldn't give it up. Not only does it do him in at the end, it was his undoing with his wife.

 

That's true. Webb knew how to push the right buttons, to get her to feel.

 

And she wanted to feel. That is something that is vital.

 

I hadn't thought about that, but I believe so. I thought at first it was her fear

that everyone would suspect her involvement with Webb and possibly think

she and Webb colluded to murder her husband. Now I think it's more likely

to hide her pregnancy....and for the same reasons.

 

I'm curious to see how the courtroom scene plays out, again. Second viewings are so helpful for me.

 

Definitely. Half of her speeches about "delaying" and how wrong they were, were directed at herself. But she was too weak to listen to herself.

 

That's exactly it. She was doing all she could to try and convince herself that it was wrong and she was wrong, but what she wanted, she really wanted.

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> I started to rewatch the film, last night, and you're right about his dream of wanting an easy life. He definitely had his mind on money. I don't think it was the reason why he wanted Susan, but, as you say, it was in the back of his mind. He wanted to be a "John."

>

 

He really resented the hand he believed life had dealt him. It didn't register that anyone could want to be other than a "John". Anything less was "settling".

 

> Yes. And I do see where you are getting the Harry Fabian vibe. He finally gets his piece of the pie and it quickly crumbles.

>

 

Right. He goes down that list in the end, of all the people who take in a big way. He wanted to be counted among them. He wanted to be Nosseros.

 

> You're right about that. We seem to see this in so many films. I guess we guys can never be the total package. I'm neither!

>

 

:D None of us are.

 

> He was itchy. His partner's wife (Katherine Warren) knew what was up. She knew Webb really wasn't listening. He was humoring her husband. And I loved that her husband (John Maxwell) gave her a pat on the behind!

>

 

I missed that, too.

 

> He couldn't give it up. Not only does it do him in at the end, it was his undoing with his wife.

>

 

She basically began to suspect his lies at that point. He sure was a great actor, though, even as she's lying in bed asking him if he did kill her husband, he is so ingenuous. "Why of course I did!. It's a matter of public record!"

 

> And she wanted to feel. That is something that is vital.

>

 

You're right...she was reaching out for more, just as Webb was.

 

>

> That's exactly it. She was doing all she could to try and convince herself that it was wrong and she was wrong, but what she wanted, she really wanted.

 

So her husband was right to suspect her!

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THE PROWLER SPOILED

 

He really resented the hand he believed life had dealt him. It didn't register that anyone could want to be other than a "John". Anything less was "settling".

 

He called his dad "yellow" for not looking to make money. So that seems to be where Webb's anger really stems from. He grew up poor and he blamed his dad for not trying to do better, for not taking some chances to make more money.

 

Right. He goes down that list in the end, of all the people who take in a big way. He wanted to be counted among them. He wanted to be Nosseros.

 

And, like Harry, he was. He finally got what he wanted. But since this is film noir...

 

She basically began to suspect his lies at that point. He sure was a great actor, though, even as she's lying in bed asking him if he did kill her husband, he is so ingenuous. "Why of course I did!. It's a matter of public record!"

 

I cannot imagine being in her position, either. You cheat on your husband. Your husband then gets killed by your lover. He tells you it's self-defense. You don't believe him. Then he convinces you that it's true. Meanwhile, you're pregnant with his child! What a mess!

 

So her husband was right to suspect her!

 

This is the chicken versus the egg. Did he know her nature or did his treatment create her feelings?

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> THE PROWLER SPOILED

>

 

 

> He called his dad "yellow" for not looking to make money. So that seems to be where Webb's anger really stems from. He grew up poor and he blamed his dad for not trying to do better, for not taking some chances to make more money.

>

 

Oooh, that's right! I forgot about that. His issues were super deep seated, then.

 

> And, like Harry, he was. He finally got what he wanted. But since this is film noir...

>

 

Climbing to the top of that mountain...only to slide down so ignominiously. Poor guy.

 

> I cannot imagine being in her position, either. You cheat on your husband. Your husband then gets killed by your lover. He tells you it's self-defense. You don't believe him. Then he convinces you that it's true. Meanwhile, you're pregnant with his child! What a mess!

>

 

It's really about as bad as it gets. Thank goodness help appeared in the form of the doctor (but did you notice how totally unwilling he was to help Webb's wife? He really had to force him.)

 

> This is the chicken versus the egg. Did he know her nature or did his treatment create her feelings?

 

Good point. I don't see John as the warm and fuzzy husband. And he couldn't give her a child.

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"Man, I really have to find this movie now! I got suckered into Heflin's scheme, then had it

all whisked away by the flick of a channel changer. I hope they show it again. I'm going to

go scan the net for a version I can watch now......"

 

Jackaaaaaaaay, you and the Mister are going to have to find a way to share that remote control. Don't you have two televisions? It sounds rough to miss the classics by the flick of a switch. Can you get a divorce for two hours...and then re-marry when these films are over?

 

Okay, okay. So you don't live in California.........

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Oooh, that's right! I forgot about that. His issues were super deep seated, then.

 

Yes, very much so. He's bitter. "I had a weak, poor father who gave me nothing. I earned my scholarship and then the coach and athletic director took that from me because they feared my strength." And you are right about the money angle with Webb because his partner, during the "rock" dinner discussion, speaks of a cop not making much money.

 

It's really about as bad as it gets. Thank goodness help appeared in the form of the doctor (but did you notice how totally unwilling he was to help Webb's wife? He really had to force him.)

 

I think the doctor sensed something wasn't right with Webb and the situation.

 

I don't see John as the warm and fuzzy husband. And he couldn't give her a child.

 

A sugar daddy.

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I watched *The Prowler* last night.

 

A few quick comments:

 

*SPOILERS*

 

_*Ro wrote:*_ *So we started watching and BOY... it did not take long to get old Web's number did it. You really get a sense that he is NOT just your average "Officer Friendly" by only a few minutes into the story.*

 

_*Miss G wrote:*_ *Wasn't Heflin terrific in what I consider a classic "Robert Ryan" part?*

 

One of the things that attracted me most to the film were that Heflin and Keyes were in it. As CineMaven and Ollie both commented, Heflin first proved his worth in *Johnny Eager*.

 

I agree this is a classic Robert Ryan part, at least in the first two thirds of the film anyway. Heflin did a great job playing it shifty from the start. Keyes is very good and I love her "look" in the film. Jackie's description of her: she seemed brittle and very tired. Not hard, but kind of scared and suspicious and a little sleazy. is great. She seems made for harder circumstances. Not exactly the type of woman you might expect to be on the other side of the door of THAT house.

 

_*Ro wrote:*_ *For me, if I had any issues w/ "plausability" it was the place they went to "hide out". I just did not see that as being as believable as I thought it would be. I was expecting him to get her up there and "accidently" push her off a rock or something.*

 

They should have went to Mexico! Couples throughout film noir are always trying to make it across the border but can't because they are on the lam. Webb and Susan didn't have that obstacle. I just kept wanting them to go to Mexico! :) The place they did end up was certainly stark and isolated.

 

_*Miss G wrote:*_ *I see what you're saying about the choice of hide-out. I think this is where*

*the director wanted to maybe create a setting that had some real resonance*

*for the finale. There is something haunted, empty and horrifyingly inhuman*

*about the place.*

 

Nice description. A great place to go to be haunted by your actions.

 

_*Ro wrote:*_ *As it turns out I think he really DID want that baby... though he saw the timing of it all as the major problem (rather than the child itself) I might be wrong.. but it just seemed that way to me.*

 

Yeah, he wanted that baby, his emotional response speaks to that. It was the timing, and his immediate jump to that frame of mind was "guilty thinking".

 

I thought Webb panicked a little during the birth. The doctor said it was a normal birth. Susan thought she could handle it, she didn't want him to go, but Webb freaks out and ends up sealing his fate.

 

_*Miss G wrote:*_ *but I guess we had to see that*

*the victim was a real human being, not just a faceless, disembodied voice who was*

*being murdered.*

 

I thought it was kind of important to see John just to see how Webb handled the whole thing. Little things like firing the gun in John's hand would be important in the inquest. It also left no doubt about the cold bloodiness of it all.

 

_*Miss G wrote:*_ *He seemed to be absolutely REPELLED (or at the very least disgusted) by ANYTHING "ordinary" as if he was SO far above it all (and deserving of a much more "exciting" life. He sure thought an awful lot of himself, didn't he?*

 

_*Frank wrote:*_ *He was itchy. His partner's wife (Katherine Warren) knew what was up. She knew Webb really wasn't listening. He was humoring her husband. And I loved that her husband (John Maxwell) gave her a pat on the behind!*

 

I liked how she (Mrs. Crocker) sized him up. She was rushing him out because she knew he didn't want to be there and because Webb made her uncomfortable. She sums it up:

 

He doesn't listen and he doesn't like being a cop

 

I think she's a little protective of her husband in that scene. Crocker seems clueless to Webb's nature. She doesn't. I also think Webb handled himself about as well as could while he visiting . It was like he was trying to be "normal" but just couldn't pull it off. Crocker's wife can see this.

 

Both Susan and Webb were interesting characters and just great to watch.. I thought Heflin was wonderful during the scene where he convinces her that it was all an accident. He almost convinced me! Keyes as Susan was emotionally shaky in all the right places. I thought the character development here was first rate. You quickly get caught up with these two and you're not quite sure how either is going to react, what they might try, what they might do, as they go into each turn of the story. A nice discovery for my noir collection.

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> {quote:title=CineMaven wrote:}{quote}

 

> Jackaaaaaaaay, you and the Mister are going to have to find a way to share that remote control. Don't you have two televisions? It sounds rough to miss the classics by the flick of a switch. Can you get a divorce for two hours...and then re-marry when these films are over?

>

> Okay, okay. So you don't live in California.........

 

Hahaha! I am working on getting the new TV - and I think maybe a new dvdr should be included. Although a divorce is probably cheaper....

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Hello there Grey Dude...

 

I really like what you have here:

 

I cannot imagine being in her position, either. You cheat on your husband. Your husband then gets killed by your lover. He tells you it's self-defense. You don't believe him. Then he convinces you that it's true. Meanwhile, you're pregnant with his child! What a mess

 

True!! All true.. ha. And you have her situation laid out so well, THIS could almost be a "tag line" for the movie. ha. :-)

 

OK.. let's stir the pot a little.. you have pounded and pounded on me (and others) that your old buddy Harry was NOT a bad guy and that you felt like he deserved to win out in the end. Rather than go back down THAT long and winding and twisting road with you again.. let me pose THIS for you to mull around a bit instead...

 

Since Miss G pointed out some of the comparisons between Harry and Webb (and I agreed w/ her on the similarites and so did you) where would YOU place Webb (in terms of likability and sympathy) along side of Harry??

 

Both men were smooth talking "silver tongued devils" who used a woman's love for them to get what they wanted. And both men misled and lied repeatedly to the women they used. Both men believed life OWED them something and they deserved all the "good stuff" they were missing out on (and rather than work for what they wanted like most, they looked for opportunites to get a "quick' trip to easy street) Both men bought themselves a business with money they got not through their own labor but at the expense of others and then set themselves up as "the big boss". Both men even caused the death of someone else in the pursuit of their dreams. And then ultimately.. both men were brought down when the truth about how they attained their dreams finally comes to light.

 

So... is Webb just a guy like Harry.. was he just a poor sap who never got a break and was being denied a "piece of the pie?" (similar to what you felt about Harry?) Do they both stand equal? Does Webb get your sympathy too? (because you really felt sorry for Harry and wanted him to win out in the end) I guess what I am wanting to know is did you root for Webb that way as well? And if not.. why not. If you found one man more sympathetic than the other what was it that tipped the scale for you?

 

And PS: ha.. I know.. I am being "ornery" here :P because I THINK I already know what you are going to say.. ha. but I just want to see if I am right. And PS: we MAY have a similar point of view on whether or not one man was more sympathetic.. but we will likely STILL be polar opposites on HOW sympathetic each and/or either man really was)

 

PS Jackie.. ask and ye shall receive.. The Prowler is showing again on the morning of Nov 13th..

 

Meanwhile.. BAH!! I thought "Out of the Fog" was on TODAY (instead of yesterday) so I totally missed it. (and I am STILL kicking myself over missing SBTD earlier this week too, (double BAH!)

 

Just another (in a long stream of) "I'm too DOOFY to read a schedule" moments for ME, HA!! :D

 

Edited by: rohanaka on Sep 25, 2010 12:31 PM

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Hiya Mad Hat..

 

I thought it was kind of important to see John just to see how Webb handled the whole thing

 

It would have been ok if they had just shown John from behind.. or from the neck down. I just think it would have been more fun to never really get a chance to put a face with the name.

 

SPOILER STUFF:

 

Little things like firing the gun in John's hand would be important in the inquest. It also left no doubt about the cold bloodiness of it all.

 

I thought Heflin was wonderful during the scene where he convinces her that it was all an accident. He almost convinced me!

 

And see... I've been thinking about this.. that whole scene where he shoots John could have been handled in such a way that we never see either man as the bullets start flying and then WE would be wondering right along with Susan.. maybe. (But of course then they would also have had to do away with the who bit where Webb creaks the gate back and forth, etc, making it seem like there really IS a prowler running around out there.. because that was a pretty big clue that things were NOT going to end well for John, ha.)

 

But wouldn't it have been fun to have just the tiniest bit of a shadow of doubt about whether Webb really WAS telling the truth or not... and then we he makes his big revealing comment about how some men kill for millions and he did it for (was it?) 62 grand... that would have been all the more shocking.

 

Oh well.. who am I to say.. I am NOT the one getting paid the big bucks to figure all that stuff out and write it down. ha.

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You're just itchin' to hang me, aren't you, Piecemaker?!

 

OK.. let's stir the pot a little.

 

Well, it is getting close to Halloween. :P

 

you have pounded and pounded on me (and others) that your old buddy Harry was NOT a bad guy and that you felt like he deserved to win out in the end.

 

I understood him! He was a hustler, like many salesmen, promoters are, and he saw an opening to start his own promotion on the back of Gregorius. Yeah, he used others to do this, but that's usually what happens. Someone uses someone and gets rich off of them. That's being an agent. Harry was a "businessman." He was trying to be "Vince McMahon," which is who Kristo is.

 

Since Miss G pointed out some of the comparisons between Harry and Webb (and I agreed w/ her on the similarites and so did you) where would YOU place Webb (in terms of likability and sympathy) along side of Harry??

 

I had a lot of sympathy for Harry, even though I view him as a selfish weasel. But I view most every businessman as a selfish weasel. I have zero sympathy for Webb.

 

Both men were smooth talking "silver tongued devils" who used a woman's love for them to get what they wanted.

 

Harry stole from Mary, he didn't kill her husband! Big difference! And it wasn't like Mary had much money.

 

And both men misled and lied repeatedly to the women they used.

 

Harry was a boy stealing from the cookie jar. Of course he's going to lie. We all do this, to some degree. Webb wasn't acting like a little boy. He was a murderer.

 

Both men believed life OWED them something and they deserved all the "good stuff" they were missing out on (and rather than work for what they wanted like most, they looked for opportunites to get a "quick' trip to easy street)

 

Harry did work for his opportunity, though. And I believe Webb and Harry are different in what they ultimately wanted. Harry wanted to be boss. He wanted to have the name on the door, the power that comes with it. He wanted to be Nosseross, Kristo. Webb wanted the easy life. He kept talking about how the money would work for him. He was a "property owner, an investor." Harry still wanted to work.

 

There are many rich people in this country who have been willed money and have let the money work for them. Many of them boss around the honest worker and take advantage of the honest worker all the while crying poor. It's amazing how many of these honest workers then side with the rich folk. It's crazy. It's absolutely genius that these rich folk have come to convince these honest workers that they are to be protected, not the honest worker.

 

I have sympathy for the businesses who are honest about a true bottom-line. I have zero sympathy for those who are nothing but greedy with their "bottom-line." If I tell you I need $10 to pay you $5 and I don't get that, that's honest. If I need $10 to pay you $5 but I'm expecting to get $20 and I get $15 and then tell you I have to let you go, I'm greedy. And do you think I'll lower my annual income? Ha! No, I'll just let you go.

 

But I wouldn't make it in business because I care about people. I cannot put money ahead of people.

 

Both men bought themselves a business with money they got not through their own labor but at the expense of others and then set themselves up as "the big boss".

 

Harry took out a "loan" the only way he knew how. Many people do this. This doesn't make him a criminal. The only person he really screwed over was Helen. And, remember, Harry payed back his loan... with INTEREST! Webb got his money via killing a man and marrying his wife. Again, I think murder is way worse than what Harry did.

 

Both men even caused the death of someone else in the pursuit of their dreams.

 

I don't believe Harry killed Gregorius. Kristo didn't like Harry giving his father a chance to promote his wrestler and the "old way" of wrestling. It was interfering with his business. Granted, Kristo feared Harry's using his father, and he was right about that. Still, it was Kristo's mission to sink Harry, which meant sinking his father, too. The two men are on the same ship and Kristo torpedoes that ship. I'm not going to blame Harry for inviting him on the ship. He didn't force him on the ship, he invited him.

 

I think Webb was directly responsible for someone's death. :D

 

And then ultimately.. both men were brought down when the truth about how they attained their dreams finally comes to light.

 

I still say outside forces brought down Harry. People were out to get him. In the world of business, that's how it works. The small business guy will often get "closed down" by the bigger business. That's America. I just feel for the small business guy. Geez, I really love Night and the City and all it's wonderful characters and commentary.

 

So... is Webb just a guy like Harry.. was he just a poor sap who never got a break and was being denied a "piece of the pie?" (similar to what you felt about Harry?) Do they both stand equal? Does Webb get your sympathy too? (because you really felt sorry for Harry and wanted him to win out in the end)

 

No, the two are worlds apart when it comes to my sympathy. They are similar in their wanting something big out of life, getting that something, and then losing it.

 

I guess what I am wanting to know is did you root for Webb that way as well? And if not.. why not. If you found one man more sympathetic than the other what was it that tipped the scale for you?

 

No, I was never rooting for Webb. I didn't like the guy. I'm not big on adultery. I don't like it when someone knowingly goes after a married person. I would have liked Webb if he was trying to make a go of it, like Harry, but he wasn't. He was like me, lazy. Harry is a go-getter.

 

I found Webb to be very cold, far more so than Harry. I thought Harry was likable. I'm not saying Harry was some saint. Far, far from it. He was a user. But I associate that with business. He was no different than the other "honest" businessmen in the city. I don't like Kristo one damn bit and Harry wanted to be Kristo, so I would have eventually hated him, too.

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Hello Mr. Grey,

 

You're just itchin' to hang me, aren't you

 

Only because I have had you on my list for OH so many reasons..ha.

 

Well.. you got back to me faster than I expected.. what has happened to your whole "shiftless" thing lately. ha. :P

 

And you have given me a lot to think about here.. but you answered more or less about the way I was thinking you would. So I have a few more "posers" for you, because I wanted to ask you about some of what you said... (because PS: it may surprise you that we are in agreement on SOME things.. but oh gee.. we are STILL so very far apart in others..ha.. I know.. big surprise) :P

 

But I will have to get back with you because I am about to head out for a fun filled "street fair" extravaganza as there are TWO (count 'em TWO) big festivals going on in our area this weekend... so I am going to have to answer you a bit later on all this. Just wanted to get a little "pot stirring" action started..ha.. .and in the meantime.. anyone else feel free to jump in. I will be back later to ask you my follow up questions.. ha. (Will she have her rope with her or WON'T she?? hmmmmm....) :P

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I admire you, Quiet Gal. You are involved in so many activities that are meant to do good for others, especially children. I don't know how you have the energy to do it all. I'm thoroughly impressed by your commitment to those you love, your church, and your community. You should be proud of yourself.

 

I'm glad you predicted what I'd say because that tells me I've been somewhat consistent with viewpoint.

 

I think the biggest beef you and others have with Harry is that you believe he should have a "normal" job where he's handed a paycheck. His way of life is dishonest. Well, the world he's in and the world he's trying to become a big shot in is more dishonest than he is.

 

Harry is smart but not smart enough to realize he's in over his head.

 

I see Webb as a different kind of guy. They are both opportunists, though.

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I just think Harry wanted to get ahead the easy way, not by working hard. I really do agree that Webb is the worse case, he's a psycho about guns and killing. It's nothing at all to him. Harry isn't in that league. But I can see Harry eventually causing the same kind of ruin inadvertently one day. Because he wants it the easy way, he'll compromise himself to the ultimate end one day, if life hadn't caught up to him already. In his own way, he considers people like Webb's partner as big a loser as Webb does.

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THE PROWLER SPOILED

 

I just think Harry wanted to get ahead the easy way, not by working hard.

 

But Mary agrees with me! Harry busts his tail! Do you think Nosseross does that? Kristo? They have others go do the work for them. Harry is one of those guys.

 

It's what Harry does that you and others have a problem with. If he was going around town delivering packages for Nosseross, then he would be seen as working hard.

 

I really do agree that Webb is the worse case, he's a psycho about guns and killing. It's nothing at all to him. Harry isn't in that league.

 

Webb knowingly goes after a married woman and then he crafts a plan to kill her husband and then he does it.

 

But I can see Harry eventually causing the same kind of ruin inadvertently one day. Because he wants it the easy way, he'll compromise himself to the ultimate end one day, if life hadn't caught up to him already. In his own way, he considers people like Webb's partner as big a loser as Webb does.

 

Harry wishes to be Kristo and Kristo is ruthless. I'd hope Harry wouldn't turn that cold, because he isn't, right now. But I fear he would end up that way. The more power a person gains, the more they fear losing it.

 

But I think Webb was much more lazy. I don't think he wanted to take part in any business. He wanted people to hand him a check. He wants others to do it for him. Harry has his own runners and dirty-work guys, but he still wishes to be involved in the decision-making. He's an idea man. Webb isn't this. Webb wants someone else to do all that for him.

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> THE PROWLER SPOILED

>

> I just think Harry wanted to get ahead the easy way, not by working hard.

>

> But Mary agrees with me! Harry busts his tail! Do you think Nosseross does that? Kristo? They have others go do the work for them. Harry is one of those guys.

>

 

I think Nosseross did when he started out.

 

> It's what Harry does that you and others have a problem with. If he was going around town delivering packages for Nosseross, then he would be seen as working hard.

>

 

It's true, hustling isn't my idea of working.

 

> Harry wishes to be Kristo and Kristo is ruthless. I'd hope Harry wouldn't turn that cold, because he isn't, right now. But I fear he would end up that way. The more power a person gains, the more they fear losing it.

>

 

I don't doubt it. He'd probably always look out for those he had affection for, but he'd be merciless with strangers.

 

> But I think Webb was much more lazy. I don't think he wanted to take part in any business. He wanted people to hand him a check. He wants others to do it for him. Harry has his own runners and dirty-work guys, but he still wishes to be involved in the decision-making. He's an idea man. Webb isn't this. Webb wants someone else to do all that for him.

 

I do agree with that. Webb have a lazy aspect to him. He'd rather lay back and play manipulative games (and all the while think of himself as a victim) than work hard at anything.

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It's true, hustling isn't my idea of working.

 

Welcome to sales and advertising.

 

I don't doubt it. He'd probably always look out for those he had affection for, but he'd be merciless with strangers.

 

I think he'd be merciless with even those he's affectionate towards if it meant money. Harry is choosing power and money over Mary. Webb is probably better than Harry in this area. I believe he'd chose Susan.

 

I do agree with that. Webb have a lazy aspect to him. He'd rather lay back and play manipulative games (and all the while think of himself as a victim) than work hard at anything.

 

My country grandma was willed the house and property next door to her by her aunt. Every month, she gets a check from the renter. Hard work, ain't it?

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