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rohanaka

A Walk on the Noir Side

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> Welcome to sales and advertising.

>

 

I agree.

 

> I think he'd be merciless with even those he's affectionate towards if it meant money. Harry is choosing power and money over Mary. Webb is probably better than Harry in this area. I believe he'd chose Susan.

>

 

I'm not sure of that. He killed her husband for the money, not her.

 

> My country grandma was willed the house and property next door to her by her aunt. Every month, she gets a check from the renter. Hard work, ain't it?

 

I would love it.

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I agree.

 

Painful, isn't it? :P

 

I'm not sure of that. He killed her husband for the money, not her.

 

He did. But I still think he loved Susan. I'm not sure about Harry with Mary.

 

I would love it.

 

So would I! So does Webb. But you didn't earn it and you're not working hard for it so that means it's no good and you don't deserve it... right? Not everyone comes to money via "hard work." There are many of those with money who have been handed their money.

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> He did. But I still think he loved Susan. I'm not sure about Harry with Mary.

>

 

I'm not as convinced.

 

> I would love it.

>

> So would I! So does Webb. But you didn't earn it and you're not working hard for it so that means it's no good and you don't deserve it... right? Not everyone comes to money via "hard work." There are many of those with money who have been handed their money.

 

That's nothing to do with Harry.

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I admire you, Quiet Gal

 

Oh sure.. try and distract me with flowery speeches.. just when I was reaching for my ROPE!! ha. :P

 

You are too nice to me, Grey Guy.. ha. Last week I did work all weekend at a big (no, I mean HUGE, ha) fundraiser bake sale booth w/ the scout troop that I work with.. (though truthfully.. it was more fun for me than work) but I have to come clean and confess... I was not doing anything today but goofing OFF! ha.

 

The fact is, we have a LOT of diffferent festivals and street fairs in various towns all around our area this time of year... this makes the fourth week in a row for us to "hit the streets" ha. Counting the one we had a bake sale at last weekend, we have visited a total of 5 different street fairs in 4 weekends. (OH my golly, you should see how the kidling can work the freebie tables, ha. By now, she knows which ones have ALL the best stuff) :D Truth is.. it is a nice way to get out and about and not have to spend a whole lot of cash to entertain her (or us) so we try to get to as many as we can when the weather is nice... today we got caught in the rain toward the end of our visit at one of them.. but it was still a lot of fun to wander about and see all the various vendors and different craft booths, etc.

 

So don't be TOO impressed..ha. I wasn't doing any "good deeds" today..ha. I was just being "thrifty" by dragging the QT out w/ me and the kidling for some "free" entertainment. ha. :D But it was nice of you to say all that... Though I am sure you have me pegged all wrong.. keep this up and you will ruin my whole "peacemaker" image. HA! :)

 

I'm glad you predicted what I'd say because that tells me I've been somewhat consistent with viewpoint

 

You have. One thing I can say for sure is that you do not "waffle". (or is that "flip flop") without just cause and without careful examination of the facts. And then I would not necessarily call it flip flopping so much as just re-examining the evidence to form a better conclusion. (a la the whole Wuthering Heights thing, etc) I have to give you credit for that.

 

I understood him! He was a hustler, like many salesmen, promoters are, and he saw an opening to start his own promotion on the back of Gregorius. Yeah, he used others to do this, but that's usually what happens

 

Someone uses someone and gets rich off of them. That's being an agent. Harry was a "businessman." He was trying to be "Vince McMahon," which is who Kristo is.

 

But does the end really justify the means if someone is free to use someone else that way? Is it "ok' to do that so long as you don't really "hurt" anyone. (and I maintain that Harry did hurt others.. more than you think he did but even if he had not.. would it still really be ok for him to do this?) And if you took Webb's murder of John out of the equation how would these two men REALLY be all that different? What if Webb had found a way to swindle John's money (through Susan) without killing anyone? Would it have been ok for him to do that?

 

I think the biggest beef you and others have with Harry is that you believe he should have a "normal" job where he's handed a paycheck. His way of life is dishonest. Well, the world he's in and the world he's trying to become a big shot in is more dishonest than he is.

 

Hmmmmm I don't know if I would say that him not having a normal job was my biggest beef with him. I think my issues lie more in the second part of what you said.. that his way of life is dishonest. He was a liar and a scammer and thought very little of anyone or anything but himself. He wanted HIS big slice of pie and did not really mind using shady or underhanded or (let's just say it like it is) "dishonest" means to get it. I really just had NO respect for him whatever. Did I respect his competition? No.. not really.. but I also did not feel sorry for Harry when he bit off more pie than he could chew and it more or less came back on him. He got what guys like him usually get when they mix and mess around with bigger "thugs" than themselves. I never once felt like he deserved any of the "breaks" you thought he did.. because he wasn't trying to get them in any way that was honest.. but let's not go down THAT road all over again.. ha. (or did we just go there anyway.. HA!)

 

I see Webb as a different kind of guy. They are both opportunists, though.

 

I found Webb to be very cold, far more so than Harry. I thought Harry was likable. I'm not saying Harry was some saint. Far, far from it. He was a user. But I associate that with business. He was no different than the other "honest" businessmen in the city. I don't like Kristo one damn bit and Harry wanted to be Kristo, so I would have eventually hated him, too.

 

To be truthful.. I expected you to say that Webb was NOT likeable at all and that you found him much worse than Harry because that was what he was. And I see him that way too. There ARE degrees of wrong.. just like there are degrees of right sometimes... so I guess this would be a DARK grey/black sort of character and maybe Harry would be "less dark" to me. (because he was a lot of things.. but he wasn't "sinister" the way Webb was, that is for sure.)

 

But to me.. what he did was very similar to the same sorts of thing Harry did.. only Webb just took them to a "darker" level.

 

And I guess that is my point.. you (and all these noirs I have been watching) are teaching me to appreciate the degrees of "gray/greyness" in film characters way more than I ever imagined. And I really do like that. I am finding that Films Noir are a great place for seeing the various shades of gray and I can see now why you enjoy them so much (coming from a mindset that leans more to the gray in most things as you often do). Sometimes there ARE no easy "black and white" answers for certain characters.. and in a noir, that is OK... it makes for a more interesting story to see the characters have to struggle and strangle (sometimes literally) over the various degress of right and wrong that are set in motion in these stories.

 

But having said all that.. I still maintain.. that despite ALL the gray/grey floating around and about and all throughout these films.. there IS a "black and white" truth in nearly EVERY grey moment that likely WOULD have solved almost each and every issue these characters face.. if only they had stopped and THOUGHT about the things they were doing before they did them..

 

Ah life.. live and learn.. or steal, cheat, maybe kill and get caught by the police as you are climbing up a big hill trying to get away at the end of the movie. HA!. :P

 

OH and PS: My country grandma was willed the house and property next door to her by her aunt. Every month, she gets a check from the renter. Hard work, ain't it?

 

Actually.. it CAN be hard work being a property owner and being responsible for the home while you have tenents living there. At the very least she is financially responsible for the taxes and insuranc and ultimate upkeep of the property. And even if she never has to lift a finger to take care of anything...she did not "swindle" the property to attain it.. so it is her right to do w/ it what she pleases since it belongs to her. She is not taking advantage of others to keep it or earn money off of it.. unless she is some sort of slum lord or something.. and let's face it.. I cannot picture your country gradnma in THAT sort of role. ha. Somehow "evil landlord" doesn't fit the whole "country grandma" image I have of her. :-)

 

Edited by: rohanaka on Sep 26, 2010 2:06 AM

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> {quote:title=molo14 wrote:}{quote}

> _*Ro wrote:*_ *For me, if I had any issues w/ "plausability" it was the place they went to "hide out". I just did not see that as being as believable as I thought it would be. I was expecting him to get her up there and "accidently" push her off a rock or something.*

>

> They should have went to Mexico! Couples throughout film noir are always trying to make it across the border but can't because they are on the lam. Webb and Susan didn't have that obstacle. I just kept wanting them to go to Mexico! :) The place they did end up was certainly stark and isolated.

>

 

I commented on this in The Prowler thread. I, too, wondered why they didn't just go to some out of the way spot in Mexico, where they could put up in a motel, and have access to a Doctor, and a hospital, or clinic. How did they have water and electricity, in a ghost town?

 

Although I do believe that Webb wanted the baby, I think it was in the back of his mind that there could be complications, and he might want to kill his wife, and/or the baby. Easier to do that in a ghost town. He was such a planner...

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Well with regards to "He was such a planner": he wasn't that great of a planner otherwise he would of used a ****!

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> {quote:title=jamesjazzguitar wrote:}{quote}

> Well with regards to "He was such a planner": he wasn't that great of a planner otherwise he would of used a ****!

 

I think part of his plan was to provide her with a baby, proving he was more of a man than her husband. But, yes, he should have used a **** before they were married. Unless, of course, he thought that she might have to be carrying his baby to part with her husband. I think planning the murder came well after they started, uh, conjugating.

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"Unless, of course, he thought that she might have to be carrying his baby to part with her husband".

 

That is an interesting idea but it kind of only 'works' if he lets her in on his murder plans (and we know she wouldn't of agreed to that since that is key to the entire plot). Clearly as it relates to his planning the murder getting her pregnant was a bad idea, but it is logical to assume that he had one thing on his mind at that time and it wasn't murder!

 

But when he did plan the murder I'm going to assume he didn't even think about if she was pregnant or not with his child, and even if he had, he didn't really have a way to find out; 'hey, honey, are you pregnant???,,,why,,, well,,, because you see I want to kill your husband'.

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Have you seen "Secret Beyond the Door"

 

No, Miss Maven.. dadgummit. I TOTALLY missed it the other day when it was on. (I did not even KNOW about it until it was too late to do anything about it.. duh) I did find a short clip (of his tour of the "murder rooms") that told me I WISH I had seen the whole thing. (and then there is the whole discussion going on over in films and filmmakers that I catch bits and pieces of the last few days.. yep.. I WISH I had seen the whole thing for SURE. ha. BUt I will keep an eye out for it.. maybe can find it at the library.. but won't likely be able to check on it for a few days yet.. I am pretty much "booked" this whole week.... sigh... so many movies... so little time. :D

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> {quote:title=jamesjazzguitar wrote:}{quote}

> "Unless, of course, he thought that she might have to be carrying his baby to part with her husband".

>

> That is an interesting idea but it kind of only 'works' if he lets her in on his murder plans (and we know she wouldn't of agreed to that since that is key to the entire plot). Clearly as it relates to his planning the murder getting her pregnant was a bad idea, but it is logical to assume that he had one thing on his mind at that time and it wasn't murder!

>

 

I don't think it only works if he lets her in on his plan to murder her husband. After the deed, it would just be one more attachment between them, making it harder for her to let him go.

 

 

> But when he did plan the murder I'm going to assume he didn't even think about if she was pregnant or not with his child, and even if he had, he didn't really have a way to find out; 'hey, honey, are you pregnant???,,,why,,, well,,, because you see I want to kill your husband'.

 

I think you're right there. However, you will recall that he was surprised to find out she was pregnant, surprised she hadn't told him earlier. Perhaps if he had known about the pregnancy before the murder, he would have arranged an 'accident' that didn't involve him.

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Oh, crap! I'm in a jam. I forgot Quiet Gal's birthday. I need to think of something fast.

 

I know! I'll get her a card!

 

nightandthecity2.jpg

 

What?! It's going to cost me four dollars for a fancy, knock-off card?! I don't have that! What to do? I know!

 

nightandthecity1.jpg

 

Dang it! I should have known Miss G didn't have any money! Maybe she hid it in the drawers!

 

nightandthecity3.jpg

 

Uh-oh.

 

nightandthecity4.png

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HELLLOOOOOOOOO Harry.. ha. You look WORRIED in that last picture there.. And you SHOULD!! ha. :D What you don't REALIZE is that Miss G and I got rid of the money then set you up so we could catch you trying to steal from her.. ha. We are ON to your little schemes, sir. HA!! (and now I think we will have to hire Jackie to run you down with her Buick! ha)

 

OH MY GOLLY Grey Dude.. ha. You have me rolling in the aisles w/ that one.. ha (and I don't even HAVE an aisle anywhere close by me! ha) That was so funny, I am ALMOST inclined to forgive you... I must be getting soft in my old age...

 

On second thought.. I think I will hold this over your head for a while longer... ha. This will be good "dirt" to use against you for maybe even decades to come!! Everytime you give me grief now I can say something like...

 

"Yeah.. but at least I did not forget YOUR birthday!!" :P:P:P:P:P:P

 

(PS: all kidding aside..ha. NO worries sir.. I still manage to get older every year whether folks remember it or NOT! ha. And BOY am I starting to figure THAT one out in a hurry..ha.) :D

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Hey I knew it all the time!

 

90th-birthday-cake-1.jpg?t=1285740833

 

Oh alright! I screwed up too!

 

darkbirthday.jpg?t=1285741330

 

I'm ready for my rope now!

TheKillers1946.jpg?t=1285741416

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If things weren't bad enough I now find out I managed to miss your birthday. If I ever knew I have forgotten. (There are probably posts from last year.)

 

So until that day when a road trip brings me to your door with a bag of M&Ms and a dinner on me then all I can do is wish a wonderful birthday week and the hope you can have fun and relax.

 

God Bless.

BB

 

1511413221_af1fe56b5e.jpg

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HIYA Mad Hat the Swede!!! (ha) My rope is on ice and READY to string you up.. as soon as I finish my CAKE!! ha. (how did you know I always wanted to be called "Ethel"?) ha. (oh.. and PS: WHO is older????????? I seem to recall YOUR b-day being a month + earlier than MINE!!!) :P

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Oh my golly!!! Bogie!!! Love the PUPPIES!!!!! (and the big dog TOO!!) And PS:Jackie I AM starting to learn to LOVE the HB movies.. slowly but surely.. the longer I hang around this place I am finding more of his films that I truly do enjoy!! And if the great stories and "better than I expected" acting didn't win me over.. ha... the PUPPIES are scoring the extra points for him now! ha. Thanks, little darlin' :D

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Thanks Mr Movieman for the b-day wishes and the blessings!!!

 

OH boy.. M&M's... just the fact that you are willing to share them.. ha. You are a friend indeed!! :D

 

And PS: if the road ever DOES lead you all the way out here.. while you are still on that side of town, stop over there on the east coast before you head west, and pick up some of the other folks too.. and when you get here, dinner will be on me!! ha. We have a BIG old back yard and we can throw a BBQ and have ourselves a good old fashioned "message board family renuion" ha :D

 

Of course... I would have to stock up on Saur Kraut and Sawdust for the Grey Dude.. you know how HE can be sometimes.. HA!)

 

Thanks folks for the fun b-day wishes.. this is like having another birthday all over again!! (oh.. but I HOPE I don't have to turn ANOTHER year older already.. ha. This past weekend was ENOUGH of that for a while, ha. My age "odometer" is starting to REALLY rack up the miles.. ha) :D

 

Edited by: rohanaka on Sep 29, 2010 8:43 PM

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Awwww gee Ro-Ro...It was your birthday. May I send my belated birthday wishes to you? Happy Birthday Kiddo.

 

Older? Maybe. WISER? Definitely!!!

 

Sincerely...

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Thanks Miss Maven.. and PS: yes older..ha. but not much wiser..ha. Sadly.. my record of "doofiness" preceeds me! :D

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