BRONXGIRL'S MOTHER, HENRY FONDA'S HIRSUTENESS, ETC.

[MissGoddess]

> {quote:title=JackFavell wrote:}{quote}

> That's so interesting, MissG - It's so very real, the way it feels - It really captures something of intensely felt youth, but that something is almost indefinable, as wispy as a dandelion frond floating on the wind. I think this is one reason I enjoy the movie so much... I don't have to feel the pain of youth, but it helps me to remember the beauty of everything and the sweetness, when time was not an enemy, and everything was ahead of me.

 

I wish I could do that, but it only means misery so I avoid anything that takes me down that road.

[JackFavell]

Well, that too.

 

I always had a lot of hope, and somehow the freedom shown in the movie - Cecile always racing around like crazy - she never walks anywhere - it makes me think of maybe not my teens, but the time before I grew uncomfortable with myself.

[CineMaven]

"... as wispy as a dandelion frond floating on the wind."

 

Jacks, your treatise on "BONJOUR TRISTESSE" is one of the best things you have ever written on this Message Board.

 

When I look at the board from my computer, it looks like swiss cheese. Everytime, and I mean almost every single time I am ready to give up on this Message Board, I come back b'cuz of the writing. Delicate, heartfelt, smart and poetic is what I got from your post. To quote our girl..."Brilliant." Honestly.

 

And then to read this morning's "conversation" between you and Miss Goddess ("hi, Miss G.") adds to my appreciation of the movie, adds to getting an insight on how you both see things. You both don't go the easy route: "thumbs up! thumbs down!" You give me revelatory glimpses into how you see things as a person. You've made me feel your thoughts. Hmmm...feel your thoughts. How can that be?

 

So I'll go through all the flotsam and jetsom of the Message Board...of real and imaginary members...of untested and wonky web designs...of complaints and flames and discords and one-upmanships and hall monitoring. I'll go through hell...b'cuz I know that when I beat through the bushes and the swamp, on the other side is a post of good cheer, clever humor, camaraderie and writing that makes me feel.

 

Thank you.

[JackFavell]

Thanks - You guys have totally inspired me to write these observations - I hardly knew they were in me until you, MissG, and Bronxie started talking about the movie.

 

 

I only know that this movie has become such a favorite - painful, yes, yet I won't miss it, ever.... I don't think I would have even given it a look if it hadn't been for this message board.

[MissGoddess]

What _you_ just wrote (and HOW well your wrote it!) is illustrative of why I put up with all the things you mentioned and keep coming back to this place.

[JackFavell]

> {quote:title=MissGoddess wrote:}{quote}

> What _you_ just wrote (and HOW well your wrote it!) is illustrative of why I put up with all the things you mentioned and keep coming back to this place.

 

I totally agree, Maven. You have gotten me through a really bad place this week with your writing. I am so appreciative of how you guys go the extra mile, whether it's in describing why someone is on a list, or when you are talking about how a movie affects you. It has helped me so very much, especially with this dang "upgrade" which had taken the wind out of my sails when I needed some escape from my real life.

[CineMaven]

Jackaaaaaaaay, if you don't mind...I shared your review of "BONJOUR TRISTESSE" with my ol' college buddy, who I consider my movie mentor. (You will see him in Episode 8 of "Meg Ramsey"). Below is his comment and I often thought that "...Tristesse" was too girly for guys to like. Well, I've been wrong before. I've tried to connect him with Moira Finnie over at the oasis. The way this message board stands now...I mean, how could I do that to a friend?

 

****

 

"XXXXXX wrote: "Thank you for the review. Yes, I have liked 'Bonjour Tristesse' ever since, and even more as time goes by. It is another movie that is superior to its source. That shot that Jack describes of Seberg dancing was on my MUBI profile page, and now I want to put it back. Jack is really good. With you, Moira, and him there, I've got to get connected with y'all, but I must confess that the times that I have made the attempt, I have found the mechanics of the TCM site somewhat intimidating. I may need a tutorial or someone to walk me through over the phone."

[JackFavell]

That's very flattering.

 

I'm afraid even walking through the site by phone wouldn't help lately.

[CineMaven]

Maybe with two cans and a string? Nah, I can't do it to my buddy.

[kingrat]

Hey, if it's a Bonjour Tristesse lovefest, count me in. I first saw this movie years ago on black & white TV, so I didn't even know about the B&W opening with the color flashback. Even so, I loved it. This is my favorite Preminger film. Great comments from all.

 

Like many women of her generation, Anne assumes that if she's attracted to a man, then he must be morally worthy. A worldlier woman like Elsa has a better sense of what Raymond is like. Anne can forgive Raymond for his sins, but she expects moral reformation from him. As a puritan, and the word is not in the least intended in a derogatory way, she is used to examining her soul. That's something foreign to Raymond and something Cecile instincively knows would require changes in her life she doesn't want to make. Cecile's knowledge then comes at an even higher price.

[Bronxgirl48]

> {quote:title=MissGoddess wrote:}{quote}

> > {quote:title=Bronxgirl48 wrote:}{quote}

> > I mentioned the ideas posed about living a good life as opposed to just living the good life,

>

> That is superb. I'm going to remember that. "Living a good life vs. living the good life." This song says it well, non?

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks, Goddess. Oh, yes, the song expresses it perfectly. I came in on the middle of THE TOWERING INFERNO (I'm like **** Woody Allen in ANNIE HALL, if I miss even five seconds of a film's opening, I have to wait until I can see it again "from scratch", lol) and there is Fred Astaire trying to impress Jennifer Jones: "The south of France is so dull -- swimming, yachting. I'm looking for reality in San Francisco".

Why does the Riviera have this hedonistic reputation? Can't one live A good life on the Cote d'Azur? I know it's a playground for the rich and famous, but don't workaday people, the locals, and down-to-earth tourists with their easels and sensitive, artistic, romantic sensibilities, also exist and thrive there?

 

 

Edited by: Bronxgirl48 on Mar 19, 2011 12:22 AM

[lzcutter]

*(I'm like **** Woody Allen in ANNIE HALL, if I miss even five seconds of a film's opening, I have to wait until I can see it again "from scratch", lol)*

 

Barb,

 

You aren't alone. I do the same thing. It's only on occasion I will watch a film that I come into after it's started and it's only if it's one I've seen before. I won't watch a film I haven't seen if I come into after the very beginning.

 

*and there is Fred Astaire trying to impress Jennifer Jones: "The south of France is so dull -- swimming, yachting. I'm looking for reality in San Francisco".*

 

There's reality here in the City by the Bay and not the South of France? Since when? The movies make it seem like the south of France is wonderful.

 

By the way, *Towering Inferno* is one of my favorite guilty pleasures. I really like watching it with a bag of popcorn and a bottle of wine.

[Bronxgirl48]

> {quote:title=JackFavell wrote:}{quote}

> This is great! I am LOVING your discussion of Bonjour Tristesse.

>

> Yes, Anne was right, but I don't LIKE Anne. I felt more sympathy for her this time, in her fussy clothes, that somehow look bland even thought they are high style... she takes the color out of things, washes everything out. I am probably closer to Anne, but somehow, I can't sympathize with her, and I actually do get mad at her, at the end of the picture, because she ruined it all - She was the grownup, supposedly, but she is more child when in love than Cecile in many ways.

>

> Anne could have been played more sympathetically, she is only longing for love. But as Maven said, she is in deep shark infested waters, and hasn't got a knife. Its very sad if you were to look at it played by anyone but Kerr, she gives Anne a stubborn uptight feeling that is hard to reconcile. It's brilliant, for the shock factor - we only realize that Anne is human as she drives away, just asCecile only realizes what she has done. It's not that she isn't right, or human with emotions as deep as Cecile's, it's Anne's manner - she is didactic and has no subtlety. Raymond and Cecile have nothing but subtlety. If she had guided Cecile, instead of jumping in and telling her that she didn't approve.....no wait.... it wasn't that she didn't approve, they knew that already, it was that she suddenly said she was RESPONSIBLE for Cecile - it was that too big leap into motherhood that Cecile could not accept. Anne handled the specifics quite badly. Vulnerability and stubborness are bad bedmates, and Anne has them both in spades...take it from someone who knows...yes, I am very much like Anne, I hate to admit.

>

> She does not have the warmth of Raymond, or the charm, she only has love - one that cannot stand up to corruption. Her love seems weak to me in many ways, because I really think she didn't know either Raymond or Cecile very well. A gentle veer into goodness from a stronger woman would have been the way to go with these two - make it more inviting for them to stay home, rather than forcing two people to change lifestyle immediately at her request - cold turkey - just for her. She frankly does not offer much in return, maybe she cannot free herself enough to offer anything.

>

> I think it's fascinating that Preminger makes Cecile and Raymond's lifestyle sooooooooo attractive, even in the black and white sections, but he is somehow able to make us understand the ennui, the boredom and the vacuity of it there, as opposed to the warmth and delight of the color sections. Overripe...it cannot last, everything is ready to split open. The only movie I can compare it to is Black Narcissus. What an incredible movie Bonjour Tristesse is! Really, I am beginning to see it as a masterpiece.

>

> One thing that caught my eye -did anyone else notice this? As Anne and Raymond's relationship drifts into uncomfortable waters, with Elsa placed in the middle by Cecile, did you notice the colors?

>

> When Elsa returns, she is wearing a smashing lavender and purple dress with the most beautiful sleeves I've ever seen.... she is tan...well, anyway, Each time Raymond and Anne are together after Elsa's return, there are lavender and purple things placed very purposely between them, just as Cecile has placed Elsa between Raymond and Anne (he keeps tripping over her, literally). First, a bowl of lavender and purple flowers in a pot during a conversation between Anne and Raymond.... then I think it was a set of new drapes... I don't have a copy or I would go back and post pics... it was fascinating how these colors started showing up in between Raymond and Anne. Lovely and evocative of the split in philosophy too.

>

> As for the book, I read it long before seeing the movie - but I remember it being cold and hard like a diamond, shocking, honest, and told completely in the first person by Cecile. I think the movie captured it perfectly, and stayed remarkably true to the tone of the book, if not the events. I remember being quite horrified at Cecile's coldness at the end, and the last line.

>

> Martita Hunt really caught my eye this time, she is wonderfully full and vapid at the same time.

>

> And the song....what a perfect, perfect way to introduce the story... one of my favorite shots is of Jean Seberg's face, half cut off by her partner's shoulder and head, staring toward us...she is only half a person at this point... it's disturbing, and it makes you want to look to the right, so you can get a better view of her whole face.

>

> You know, I love Jean Seberg - Preminger was so totally right to keep casting her...she's wonderful, and she grabs the camera like no one I can think of. It's too bad that it's taken years for her to be appreciated.

>

> I am completely in love with Jack Cardiff and Georges Perinal - I watched FANNY this week, and now Bonjour Tristesse - I want my own personal DP - I want to see the world through Cardiff/Perinal colored glasses.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ohhhh, Jackie....what a BRILLIANT discourse. I'm overwhelmed. Now I'm going to have to see it again with Otto's color symbolism in mind. I love your description of Martita Hunt -- I find her that way in ANASTASIA, too. For me, though, the b&w sequences have what I think are their intended effect (even while being stylistically "iconic") of empty, bleak, gnawing soul-draining lonliness.

 

I appreciate the economy of Preminger's direction -- like John Huston's THE MALTESE FALCON, I find LAURA to be perfectly watertight --:and how he doesn't give us a "travelogue" of Saint Tropez. We are not handed vicariously bloated '50's-style, you-can't-get-these-on-television panoramic location vistas; rather, offhandedly modest, "nostalgic" glimpses of the organic, sun-dappled beauty of Raymond's and Cecile's uninhibited, self-contained, narcissistic Eden. Cecile's memories are both sophisticated and simple.

 

Raymond is self-aware: "I'm a silly, vain man, but at least I know it". Anne doesn't seem to understand herself as well as he, I don't think. Is her blunt, starchy, domineering manner with Cecile just an attempt to shore up courage in the face of a spoiled, willful, out-of-control future stepdaughter? Deborah Kerr is the only actress I know of who can make goodness seem positively evil, lol. (like in THE INNOCENTS) Or is Anne afraid to face the fear of her own moral decay in some way? That she might somehow down the line compromise her values, take those rigid standards down a peg, in a desperate middle-aged attempt to hold onto Niven's love?

 

Edited by: Bronxgirl48 on Mar 19, 2011 2:33 AM

[Bronxgirl48]

> {quote:title=lzcutter wrote:}{quote}

> *(I'm like **** Woody Allen in ANNIE HALL, if I miss even five seconds of a film's opening, I have to wait until I can see it again "from scratch", lol)*

>

> Barb,

>

> You aren't alone. I do the same thing. It's only on occasion I will watch a film that I come into after it's started and it's only if it's one I've seen before. I won't watch a film I haven't seen if I come into after the very beginning.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ah, Lynn, this makes me feel better! Although there are certain movies which I've never seen before, usually older ones in the horror/mystery category, that I always seem to come in on at the same scene in the middle, lol, but I continue watching until the end, which gives me a feeling of satisfaction because at least I know how things turn out and then I feel that I've actually "seen" the whole thing. I realize this doesn't make any sense.

>

> *and there is Fred Astaire trying to impress Jennifer Jones: "The south of France is so dull -- swimming, yachting. I'm looking for reality in San Francisco".*

>

> There's reality here in the City by the Bay and not the South of France? Since when? The movies make it seem like the south of France is wonderful.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It always seems like whenever a character or characters wind up on the French or Italian Riviera in movies, they have to get some kind of moral comeuppance, as though they're being punished for being rich (i.e. shallow, greedy, corrupt)

 

Then of course on the opposite end of the spectrum, there's the sublime democracy of Jacques Tati's MR. HULOT'S HOLIDAY.

>

> By the way, *Towering Inferno* is one of my favorite guilty pleasures. I really like watching it with a bag of popcorn and a bottle of wine.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I hope Retroplex Channel runs it again. I'll have my popcorn and Together In Heaven Brandy Alexander at the ready. I was wondering who the plump, mature, blonde actress was (the one who kept imploring Paul not to let her drop as she was being lowered in the chair), She looked like some former Paramount/20th Century Fox starlet, along the lines of June Haver or Joan Caulfield, but I just couldn't place her.

 

Robert Vaughn: "I recommend those with stout hearts and thin waistlines take the stairs".

 

With lines like that, you know I want to see THE TOWERING INFERNO in its entirety.

 

Edited by: Bronxgirl48 on Mar 19, 2011 12:54 AM

[lzcutter]

According to my DVR, Tuesday morning 1:30 am!

 

I've already got it programmed.

 

I remember seeing it on its initial open back in December, 1974. We saw it on New Year's Eve at the old Fox Theater in Las Vegas. A few years before we had started a tradition of seeing films on NYE with *The Poseidon Adventure* in 1972 (also at the Fox) and *The Sting* (at the Red Rock) in 1973.

 

We knew how to live back then, didn't we?

[lzcutter]

According to my DVR, Tuesday morning 1:30 am!

 

I've already got it programmed.

 

I remember seeing it on its initial open back in December, 1974. We saw it on New Year's Eve at the old Fox Theater in Las Vegas. A few years before we had started a tradition of seeing films on NYE with *The Poseidon Adventure* in 1972 (also at the Fox) and *The Sting* (at the Red Rock) in 1973.

 

We knew how to live back then, didn't we?

[Bronxgirl48]

Thanks, Lynn!

 

Ah yes, those were the days. Talk about the good life...

 

I still really want to organize some sort of informal Provencal film fest, in 2012 or 2013. Is it possible, and could TCM help us?

[MissGoddess]

> Thanks, Goddess. Oh, yes, the song expresses it perfectly. I came in on the middle of THE TOWERING INFERNO (I'm like **** Woody Allen in ANNIE HALL, if I miss even five seconds of a film's opening, I have to wait until I can see it again "from scratch", lol) and there is Fred Astaire trying to impress Jennifer Jones: "The south of France is so dull -- swimming, yachting. I'm looking for reality in San Francisco".

> Why does the Riviera have this hedonistic reputation? Can't one live A good life on the Cote d'Azur? I know it's a playground for the rich and famous, but don't workaday people, the locals, and down-to-earth tourists with their easels and sensitive, artistic, romantic sensibilities, also exist and thrive there?

>

 

The hedonism is for basically one to two months out of the year. After that, things go "native" in most of the smaller towns and villages and the locals thank Dieu the Euro trash and partyers have vamoosed, or should I say vamoussed.

 

 

>

>

 

There it is! My dress! Simply exquisite. Elegant but flirty and so very chic.

[Bronxgirl48]

Great contribution, kingrat. BONJOUR TRISTESSE is my favorite Preminger, too. I think it's possibly his best work.

[Bronxgirl48]

> {quote:title=CineMaven wrote:}{quote}

> Bon soir mesdames! :-)

>

> Bronxie, both you and Miss Goddess made really excellent and succinct observations about "Bonjour Tristesse." Very nice.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks, Maven. There are so many layers in this film begging to be unwrapped, and where better than at the TCM Message Boards?

>

> I'm ambivalent about the character of Anne. Half of me is relieved when she's finally gone, the other half grieves. Then at the same time I get a sort of lump in my throat, and reflect: but at what price is this freedom? Anne was a deluded, emotionally fragile control freak, yet I can't help feeling a great loss... - << (( Bronxgirl )) >>

>

> Yes, Kerr was a bit of a stick-in-the-mud. But Niven and Seberg were definitely morally worse for the wear with what they both did to Kerr. Her character was like Shelley Winters' in "A PLACE IN THE SUN." We feel sorry for her, all pregnant and everything...but we want her out of Liz's and Monty's way. It's like Hitchcock?s "PSYCHO." OMG, Marion's killed by Norman's mother and now he is getting rid of Marion's body. Poor Marion. Uh-oh, the car stopped sinking. I hope Norman doesn?t get caught.

>

> What a conundrum directors put us in.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They sure do. And how about Jack Carson as Albert Runkle in THE HARD WAY? He falls head-over-heels for Joan Leslie's Katie, "the nicest girl he's met since he left Nebraska", but is ultimately sabotaged by ruthless Ida. "He was weak, Katie", she tells her younger sister. He would have gotten in their stardom-driven way. I didn't want Katie to be hampered in her rise to the top (even if she didn't have any talent)

by this sweet lovestruck lump. Albert would have supported Katie in anything she wanted to do, but what he really yearned for was a nice, quiet domestic life out of the spotlight. So when he finally does what he does, I mourned, but was also secretly glad that she could finally get together with handsome Dennis Morgan.

 

I admit to getting a heady rush, a childish thrill, when Cecile enlists Elsa and Philippe into her machinations. Let's sabotage Anne's relationship with Raymond! It will be fun! No wait, I'm not supposed to feel that way.... But who knew the outcome would prove so tragic?

>

 

Edited by: Bronxgirl48 on Mar 19, 2011 5:47 AM

[Bronxgirl48]

"Vamoussed" --- hahahahahahaha!!!

 

BRILLIANT.

 

I love that little black dress too. Isn't it fascinating the connection Jean Seberg had with France on film? SAINTJOAN, BT, BREATHLESS, many more.

 

Aw, you said "on the lamb" when referring to that Douglas Sirk movie in the noir thread. Were you thinking of your own sweet stuffed gigot?

 

 

Edited by: Bronxgirl48 on Mar 19, 2011 5:42 AM

[Bronxgirl48]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by: Bronxgirl48 on Mar 19, 2011 8:48 PM

[Bronxgirl48]

[Bronxgirl48]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-a6uEqHWjT0

[JackFavell]

Ahhhh! You and I must be on the same wavelength - I just did a search for BT pics yesterday morning. And I am still on a quest to find out where that villa is... no such luck as of yet.

 

 

 

 

 

Here are some of the less naughty pics I found of Mylene Demongeot. There was a another I wanted to post but I fear the men on the boards might have had heart failure:

 

 

Edited by: JackFavell on Mar 20, 2011 10:50 AM

 

Edited by: JackFavell on Mar 20, 2011 10:52 AM