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7 hours ago, Sepiatone said:

I heard her introduce "MAH-TEE"  ;) 

Sepiatone

lol, I'm actually getting used to Alicia's accent.  It was difficult at first but now I find it rather charming.  

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8 hours ago, Roy Cronin said:

Ah, yes..."Marty is one of my most favorite films of all time... "   BUT

She then proceeds to bludgeon it gleefully and mercilessly. 

I think Alicia might have had to toe the TCM line on this.   Not 100 per cent sure, though...

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17 hours ago, Dargo said:

Yep, or "Wicked Pissah".

(...and which I understand is a very popular expression used by the residents of "Woostah" Massachusetts)

I lived in Worcester several years (even served on City Council) and never heard that expression once. The most common pronunciation of the city name was Wista or Wore-chest-a.

I've also lived in Melbourne Australia and there were several regional accents-some "hard" ones like Alicia Malone's and others that sounded exactly like British accents to me.

It's becoming very noticeable that US regions are losing their distinct accents. I bet most people didn't get SNL's recent Murder Durter skit about Philly's accent.

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13 hours ago, Bronxgirl48 said:

I think Alicia might have had to toe the TCM line on this.   Not 100 per cent sure, though...

This is the problem I have had with their 'treatment' of GONE WITH THE WIND. From a present day perspective, they know these films are not woke. So they want to critique them from that vantage point. But then they realize these particular classics are part of TCM's bread-and-butter and the hosts' own paychecks. So there is a fair amount of hypocrisy going on.

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3 hours ago, TikiSoo said:

...I bet most people didn't get SNL's recent Murder Durter skit about Philly's accent.

Care for a glass of "wooder", Tiki?

(...I play tennis with a guy from Philly, and occassionally kid him about his pronunciation of the word "water")

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Having worked in the auto industry here in Detroit, I've heard plenty of different speech patterns.  One thing I know for sure.....

There's NO such thing as a "Southern" accent.  Not ONE mind you, but several.  There were and are still plenty of holdovers of people who moved "up North"( or, "up Noth") from various Southern states.  And several of those from "Missippy"  sound a lot like Elvis Presley, who, as we all know came from Mississippi originally.  And they sound different than those from "Ala-BA-ya-ma".  And those from Georgia, usually call it "JAW-jah".  ;)   Like Jimmy Carter did too.   There were some things in common, like "all"   for "oil",  and "at" for "that"  "Rye-cheer" for "right here".  ;)   ie:  " Y'all put the ALL in the MO-der RYE CHEER, jus' like at!"  ;)   Then there's the African-American(and some white Southerners) use of "I'm-a"  replacing, "I'm going to"  as in....

"I'm-a go to the store, then I'm-a be back to take the dog a bath."  ;)   Then too, there's "ourn"  like used by Strother Martin in "Cool Hand Luke" when he tells the state trooper he's taking Luke to the camp's infirmary, claiming, "He's OURN!"   But too, My Pennsylvanian born and bred Mother used that as well.    But, don't try nothin' 'cause...

I see yo a-ss!  ;) 

Sepiatone

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3 hours ago, TopBilled said:

This is the problem I have had with their 'treatment' of GONE WITH THE WIND. From a present day perspective, they know these films are not woke. So they want to critique them from that vantage point. But then they realize these particular classics are part of TCM's bread-and-butter and the hosts' own paychecks. So there is a fair amount of hypocrisy going on.

I haven't followed the entire discussion above, so apologies if this point has already been made.

Another way to look at it is that the hosts are pointing out that films can raise problematic issues but still be worth watching.  

You're right that TCM and its hosts are telling us to watch flawed films like GONE WITH THE WIND even though they raise problematic issues.  And you're right that there's probably a corporate interest ($$) in preserving the commercial viability of these films.  But I don't get the impression that Alicia and the other hosts are pointing out the problematic issues just to excuse the flaws and keep the cash rolling in.   They seem to be saying, "Yes, these flaws are here for everyone to see, but there're great things to see in these movies, too."

Heck, if I only watched "perfect" movies, I wouldn't have much to choose from.

 

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9 minutes ago, BingFan said:

I haven't followed the entire discussion above, so apologies if this point has already been made.

Another way to look at it is that the hosts are pointing out that films can raise problematic issues but still be worth watching.  

You're right that TCM and its hosts are telling us to watch flawed films like GONE WITH THE WIND even though they raise problematic issues.  And you're right that there's probably a corporate interest ($$) in preserving the commercial viability of these films.  But I don't get the impression that Alicia and the other hosts are pointing out the problematic issues just to excuse the flaws and keep the cash rolling in.   They seem to be saying, "Yes, these flaws are here for everyone to see, but there're great things to see in these movies, too."

Heck, if I only watched "perfect" movies, I wouldn't have much to choose from.

I think it's a deeply complex issue. They want to show the films, since the films are what keep the channel in business and provide them with these high-profile high-paying jobs. But they also want to be able to say the films are not politically correct. They HAVE to say these classics are not politically correct in order to protect their liberal causes and also keep their liberal supporters on board. But they can't "enjoy" these problematic films too much, like some of the conservative viewers do.

The whole thing is a mess and TCM is smack dab in the middle of it all. It will only intensify with time, because these films will become even more divisive as we go along.

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31 minutes ago, TopBilled said:

I think it's a deeply complex issue. They want to show the films, since the films are what keep the channel in business and provide them with these high-profile high-paying jobs. But they also want to be able to say the films are not politically correct. They HAVE to say these classics are not politically correct in order to protect their liberal causes and also keep their liberal supporters on board. But they can't "enjoy" these problematic films too much, like some of the conservative viewers do.

The whole thing is a mess and TCM is smack dab in the middle of it all. It will only intensify with time, because these films will become even more divisive as we go along.

You may be right, although I see it differently.  I think you're certainly correct that, these days, anything that has the potential to become divisive will probably end up that way.

I just don't see that the TCM hosts are saying what they do about these issues just to please supporters (i.e., viewers).  Politicians do that kind of thing all the time, but with the TCM hosts, I think we're hearing what they actually think here, and would probably be thinking even if they weren't TV hosts with viewers.  I know that I'm ascribing a level of sincerity to them that I have no proof for, but I guess they have enough credibility with me that I'm willing to assume sincerity in the absence of evidence to the contrary.

There are plenty of people today -- possibly including many younger people -- who just wouldn't watch some of these movies because they sincerely believe that the "problematic" issues ruin them.  I see the TCM hosts telling those folks why these same movies are still well worth watching.  True, the viewers with different attitudes or experiences (probably including me) may not need to be encouraged to watch these movies, and may be more willing to excuse (or entirely overlook) issues that seem obvious to the people who are sensitive to those issues.  

I never would have thought about MARTY being about (or, especially, endorsing) "body-shaming."  To me, the movie does just the opposite, portraying a lead character who thinks of himself as "fat" and "ugly" but showing that he's really one of the nicest people you could meet.  I was going to add "despite his outward appearance," but even in saying that, I can see that I'm assuming that his appearance is somehow a flaw.  Believe me, I'm not particularly sensitive to that kind of issue, and probably wouldn't have thought much about it, except that TCM raised it and we're now discussing it.  At the same time, I'm happy to get a different perspective on the movie, even if it's not what I'd be inclined to focus on myself.  And I still think MARTY  is a terrific movie, one that I hope a lot of people who haven't seen it will watch.

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3 minutes ago, BingFan said:

You may be right, although I see it differently.  I think you're certainly correct that, these days, anything that has the potential to become divisive will probably end up that way.

I just don't see that the TCM hosts are saying what they do about these issues just to please supporters (i.e., viewers).  Politicians do that kind of thing all the time, but with the TCM hosts, I think we're hearing what they actually think here, and would probably be thinking even if they weren't TV hosts with viewers.  I know that I'm ascribing a level of sincerity to them that I have no proof for, but I guess they have enough credibility with me that I'm willing to assume sincerity in the absence of evidence to the contrary.

There are plenty of people today -- possibly including many younger people -- who just wouldn't watch some of these movies because they sincerely believe that the "problematic" issues ruin them.  I see the TCM hosts telling those folks why these same movies are still well worth watching.  True, the viewers with different attitudes or experiences (probably including me) may not need to be encouraged to watch these movies, and may be more willing to excuse (or entirely overlook) issues that seem obvious to the people who are sensitive to those issues.  

I never would have thought about MARTY being about (or, especially, endorsing) "body-shaming."  To me, the movie does just the opposite, portraying a lead character who thinks of himself as "fat" and "ugly" but showing that he's really one of the nicest people you could meet.  I was going to add "despite his outward appearance," but even in saying that, I can see that I'm assuming that his appearance is somehow a flaw.  Believe me, I'm not particularly sensitive to that kind of issue, and probably wouldn't have thought much about it, except that TCM raised it and we're now discussing it.  At the same time, I'm happy to get a different perspective on the movie, even if it's not what I'd be inclined to focus on myself.  And I still think MARTY  is a terrific movie, one that I hope a lot of people who haven't seen it will watch.

I agree that on some level the hosts have a certain amount of sincerity (most of them) but they were picked for these jobs because of their liberal sensibilities. Otherwise we would have conservative hosts on TCM showing political films and attaching their own agenda to those broadcasts. That is not happening.

As for today's younger generation, I think some of them stay away from classics not because of political correctness but because they don't like films in black-and-white. A bigger hurdle to overcome.

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True dat.  We get a lot of twenty-somethings here where I work.  The number that have never seen a black&white film is appalling.  I mention the names Humphrey Bogart or Cary Grant and all I get is a deer stuck in the headlights response. But then also most of them can't even identify the decades the Great Depression and the Second World War took place in either.

No one seems to care about the roots from which things sprang anymore and that saddens me.

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2 hours ago, Citizen Ed said:

True dat.  We get a lot of twenty-somethings here where I work.  The number that have never seen a black&white film is appalling.  I mention the names Humphrey Bogart or Cary Grant and all I get is a deer stuck in the headlights response. But then also most of them can't even identify the decades the Great Depression and the Second World War took place in either.

No one seems to care about the roots from which things sprang anymore and that saddens me.

Even I, a Boomer, had school friends back in the day who possessed this attutide of "What happened before I came into this world is not worth knowing", and in this regard I had no respect for them.

BUT, it sure as hell seems to me that this same lame, yes LAME mindset has exploded in numbers in recent years. And unfortunately, THIS time the "excuse" seems to be, "Even if I learned what happened in the world before I came into it, what they're teaching me is slanted and untruthful, and so I won't bother learning it."

But once again in MY estimation, THIS is just another damn cop-out for laziness when it comes to the pursuit of knowledge.

(...oh and btw...STAY OFF MY LAWN, all you young whippersnappers out there!!!)  LOL  ;)

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You're right that with younger viewers, the lack of color and the age of the movies is probably a barrier.  

I remember sitting down with my 12-year-old nephew, who loves crazy comedy (e.g., Mel Brooks) to watch THE BANK DICK.  At first, I was disappointed to see that he didn't seem very interested in Fields & co., fidgeting and not really paying attention.  But I suppose he felt obligated out of some sense of politeness to sit there and seem to watch the movie nonetheless.  After a little while, however, he clearly became absorbed in the film.  I don't know that that turned him into a fan of B&W movies, but at least he had one positive experience.

That's a different issue, however.  I would guess that there are at least some younger people (and maybe some not-so-young people) who aren't full-fledged film buffs but are  interested enough in older movies (or just "film" in general) to turn on TCM.  At least some of these folks might turn away from movies containing scenes that they find objectionable for some reason.  I think these are the viewers the hosts are trying to reach with their comments.  But that's just my guesswork...

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9 hours ago, Sepiatone said:

Having worked in the auto industry here in Detroit, I've heard plenty of different speech patterns.  One thing I know for sure.....

There's NO such thing as a "Southern" accent.  Not ONE mind you, but several.  There were and are still plenty of holdovers of people who moved "up North"( or, "up Noth") from various Southern states.  And several of those from "Missippy"  sound a lot like Elvis Presley, who, as we all know came from Mississippi originally.  And they sound different than those from "Ala-BA-ya-ma".  And those from Georgia, usually call it "JAW-jah".  ;)   Like Jimmy Carter did too.   There were some things in common, like "all"   for "oil",  and "at" for "that"  "Rye-cheer" for "right here".  ;)   ie:  " Y'all put the ALL in the MO-der RYE CHEER, jus' like at!"  ;)   Then there's the African-American(and some white Southerners) use of "I'm-a"  replacing, "I'm going to"  as in....

"I'm-a go to the store, then I'm-a be back to take the dog a bath."  ;)   Then too, there's "ourn"  like used by Strother Martin in "Cool Hand Luke" when he tells the state trooper he's taking Luke to the camp's infirmary, claiming, "He's OURN!"   But too, My Pennsylvanian born and bred Mother used that as well.    But, don't try nothin' 'cause...

I see yo a-ss!  ;) 

Sepiatone

There are many Southern accents. For instance, "Tidewawtuh Vuhginya"; a "Chahlston" accent, which is also non-rhotic; the very liquid accent of central Georgia; the nasal Inland South accent (SW Virginia, East TN, western NC, NW Georgia, northeast Alabama down to Birmingham), and so on. "Ourn" and "yourn" are more common in the mountainous parts of the Inland South and southeastern Kentucky. A more rural or mountain form of "y'all" is "you'uns," as opposed to "we'uns." "You'uns" is the ancestor of Pittsburgh's "yinz."

A friend swears that he has heard natives of Philadelphia call the city "Fluffya." People also say "wooder" in Baltimore, or rather "Ballmer." Some native Baltimoreans pronounces "oh" as "ehoh" (slur them together) and "ow" as "eeow" (slurred together), just as Eliza Doolittle would pronounce it. I think the Baltimore accent derives from Cockney, but am not sure.

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Back when I was a twenty something I didn't know about silent film stars or the old radio stars.

For the most part, especially in the latter case, I still don't. But the world kept on turning and

the past keeps receding.

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10 hours ago, Vautrin said:

Back when I was a twenty something I didn't know about silent film stars or the old radio stars.

For the most part, especially in the latter case, I still don't. But the world kept on turning and

the past keeps receding.

Not that you're under any obligation (obviously) to get to know old-time radio stars, but you might be surprised how many familiar movie actors you find in those radio programs.

Of course, there were the radio shows that were based entirely around the movies, like Lux Radio Theatre.  On that program (and similar ones) movie actors (often the original stars) reenacted a movie in an hour (or only 30 minutes on some shows).  The Lux program was hosted by Cecil B. DeMille for a while and later other directors.  Other established movie stars had their own shows, like Jimmy Stewart ("The Six Shooter") and Ronald Colman ("The Halls of Ivy").  Lionel Barrymore and Lew Ayres starred in a very good half hour radio show about the further adventures of Dr. Kildare, which mentions the MGM movie series in its weekly intro.  (I believe this was after Ayres left the movie series following the unfair controversy over his conscientious objector status during WWII.)

And there were some movie stars who started as radio actors, like Orson Welles (simultaneously a well-known theater actor/director), Richard Widmark, Paul Douglas, and Don Ameche.  Widmark was so successful with his radio work in New York that he later joked about how he  was the only New York actor who gave up a swimming pool when he went to Hollywood.

But I guess I'm getting a bit off-topic.  You make a good point -- the worlds of silent movies and old-time radio are so far in the past that all or most of the participants are gone now, and even the original audience members are few.  I guess that points up how important TCM is in preserving and promoting these wonderful old movies.  (The Radio Classics channel on Sirius XM does the same for old-time radio, as do some programs on local radio stations, like The Big Broadcast on WAMU from DC.)

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13 hours ago, kingrat said:

There are many Southern accents. For instance, "Tidewawtuh Vuhginya"; a "Chahlston" accent, which is also non-rhotic; the very liquid accent of central Georgia; the nasal Inland South accent (SW Virginia, East TN, western NC, NW Georgia, northeast Alabama down to Birmingham), and so on. "Ourn" and "yourn" are more common in the mountainous parts of the Inland South and southeastern Kentucky. A more rural or mountain form of "y'all" is "you'uns," as opposed to "we'uns." "You'uns" is the ancestor of Pittsburgh's "yinz."

A friend swears that he has heard natives of Philadelphia call the city "Fluffya." People also say "wooder" in Baltimore, or rather "Ballmer." Some native Baltimoreans pronounces "oh" as "ehoh" (slur them together) and "ow" as "eeow" (slurred together), just as Eliza Doolittle would pronounce it. I think the Baltimore accent derives from Cockney, but am not sure.

Sure.  And around these parts, we call it "DEE-troit"  and not "De-TROIT."    And then there's(as most natives call it) "NAWLINS LOOZY-ANNA."  ;)   But then, I come from a state that calls "MACKINAC" as "MACKINAW".  But we do have a Mackinaw City.  :blink:  HOUGHTON LAKE(and the city too) is pronounced "HO-ton", and we smirk whenever a transplant or out-of-towner pronounces it "HOW-ton". ;)   My favorite is an avenue called  CADIEUX.   Pronounced how?  Why;  "CAD-JEW"  of course!  ;) 

Sepiatone

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7 hours ago, BingFan said:

Not that you're under any obligation (obviously) to get to know old-time radio stars, but you might be surprised how many familiar movie actors you find in those radio programs.

Of course, there were the radio shows that were based entirely around the movies, like Lux Radio Theatre.  On that program (and similar ones) movie actors (often the original stars) reenacted a movie in an hour (or only 30 minutes on some shows).  The Lux program was hosted by Cecil B. DeMille for a while and later other directors.  Other established movie stars had their own shows, like Jimmy Stewart ("The Six Shooter") and Ronald Colman ("The Halls of Ivy").  Lionel Barrymore and Lew Ayres starred in a very good half hour radio show about the further adventures of Dr. Kildare, which mentions the MGM movie series in its weekly intro.  (I believe this was after Ayres left the movie series following the unfair controversy over his conscientious objector status during WWII.)

And there were some movie stars who started as radio actors, like Orson Welles (simultaneously a well-known theater actor/director), Richard Widmark, Paul Douglas, and Don Ameche.  Widmark was so successful with his radio work in New York that he later joked about how he  was the only New York actor who gave up a swimming pool when he went to Hollywood.

But I guess I'm getting a bit off-topic.  You make a good point -- the worlds of silent movies and old-time radio are so far in the past that all or most of the participants are gone now, and even the original audience members are few.  I guess that points up how important TCM is in preserving and promoting these wonderful old movies.  (The Radio Classics channel on Sirius XM does the same for old-time radio, as do some programs on local radio stations, like The Big Broadcast on WAMU from DC.)

Yes, I've read of some of the radio work movie stars did either before or after their movie stardom, mostly on

posts in this forum. I totally missed the "golden age" of radio, so I don't have any nostalgic feelings for it. I

missed the studio era too, but many of the stars of that era were still making movies in the 1960s and 1970s,

if in supporting roles. Then there are only so many hours in the day and I'm busy enough with movies and TV

as it is. I'm glad that there are outlets where one can indulge one's passion for whatever form of entertainment

one is interested in. 

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There was a brief story on the news a few days ago about the young woman who used her

phone to tape George Floyd's killing. She was reflecting on its first anniversary and said

she didn't know Floyd from a can of paint which, despite the sad circumstances, was a

comparison that is rather humorous and I don't ever remember hearing before. 

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On 5/19/2021 at 2:53 PM, Vautrin said:

Some are Born to sweet delight

Some are Born to Endless Night. 

Jeez, I just read that book a couple of weeks ago.  The best book of Christie's later career.

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On 5/27/2021 at 6:59 AM, TopBilled said:

This is the problem I have had with their 'treatment' of GONE WITH THE WIND. From a present day perspective, they know these films are not woke. So they want to critique them from that vantage point. But then they realize these particular classics are part of TCM's bread-and-butter and the hosts' own paychecks. So there is a fair amount of hypocrisy going on.

Nothing about this is hypocritical at all.

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Oh, and before this thread gets hijacked into the millionth boring discussion about TCM's view of "problematic" films, where people can say the same damn thing they've said in every other thread...

 

....before that, regarding the actual topic, please let me be the guy to say I like seeing attractive women onscreen.  Hot babes, yes, I like to see them, yes I do.  I can see unattractive people anywhere!  (Like when I look in the mirror!).   For that matter, what's the most unfortunate thing about the classic era that we talk so much about?  No nudity!  We could have had a world where Rhonda Fleming nude scenes were a thing, and tragically, we do *not* have that world.

 

Of course, having said that, "Marty" is a great movie starring a very homely man.  And it's silly when they take a vision of beauty like Charlize Theron and ugly her up for "Monster" instead of, you know, just casting an unattractive actress.  And there certainly is a double standard when it comes to men and women...you can be an Ernest Borgnine or, to use a more recent example, a Jonah Hill, and be a pretty homely guy, and be a success and maybe even an A-lister.  If you're a woman that is going to be much, much harder.  TV Tropes has a trope called "Ugly Guy, Hot Wife".  You can probably guess what two members of the cast of "Modern Family" are in the page illustration.  I remember trying to think of a film where an unattractive woman was paired up with an objectively much better-looking man, and the only thing I could think of was "My Big Fat Greek Wedding", and Nia Vardalos had to write it herself to get it made.

 

So there are certainly double standards.  But also, movies are largely for pretty people, and that's ok.

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On 5/27/2021 at 9:59 AM, TopBilled said:

This is the problem I have had with their 'treatment' of GONE WITH THE WIND. From a present day perspective, they know these films are not woke. So they want to critique them from that vantage point. But then they realize these particular classics are part of TCM's bread-and-butter and the hosts' own paychecks. So there is a fair amount of hypocrisy going on.

Agree.

It ain't fittin', it just ain't fittin'!

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4 hours ago, Vidor said:

Jeez, I just read that book a couple of weeks ago.  The best book of Christie's later career.

I used that quote before the two separate threads were combined so it really isn't germane

anymore. I've only read a couple of Christie's novels and hadn't heard of that one before. I

was referring to the original poem by William Blake. Of course that's where she the title from.

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1 hour ago, Bronxgirl48 said:

Agree.

It ain't fittin', it just ain't fittin'!

LOL

So Bronxie. Do ya do any other impressions than Hattie McDaniel???

Ya know, I can do a pretty darn good Gable when I want to, TOO!

(...although I've never been able to quite perfect my Leslie Howard)

;)

 

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