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1 hour ago, Vautrin said:

Yep, Columbus is the man. How many other countries have holidays celebrating a mass murderer?

Not too many I hope.

If it's any comfort, countries south of the border don't celebrate Francisco Pizarro or Hernán Cortés.

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Much as I'm not bothered by the creation of the new holiday, I'm not looking forward to annual whining about "why are there no Juneteenth-related movies on TCM today?," or why aren't the right ones shown?, or why are too many being shown?.

 

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15 hours ago, Swithin said:

I think the Juneteenth holiday honours us all.

Regarding those who have a fear of the cost of giving people another day off, look at it this way: It gives people more time to go out and stimulate the economy! Holidays are good for business.

 

B.S. !  Government employees already have more holidays, vacation days and sick days than most employees.  All at taxpayer expense.  In addition, it requires more employees to do the work to make up for all the "off" time.

It only honors African-Americans.  Look at the organizations that lobbied for it and the people at the various signing ceremonies.  Regardless, there still are no holidays for Native Americans, Hispanics, Asians, Women, whites, etc.  My wife, who is mostly apolitical, believes there should now be a holiday for the 19th Amendment, which gave women the right to vote.

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13 hours ago, LsDoorMat said:

Actually the Emancipation Proclamation only applied to all states in rebellion  (from the Wikipedia):

"That on the first day of January in the year of our Lord, one thousand eight hundred and sixty-three, all persons held as slaves within any State, or designated part of a State, the people whereof shall then be in rebellion against the United States shall be then, thenceforward, and forever free; and the executive government of the United States, including the military and naval authority thereof, will recognize and maintain the freedom of such persons, and will do no act or acts to repress such persons, or any of them, in any efforts they may make for their actual freedom."

 

As I understand this is also how "Juneteenth" was fabricated into a "holiday."  The Union general told the slaves that under the Emancipation Proclamation they were free.

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10 hours ago, Vautrin said:

Yep, Columbus is the man. How many other countries have holidays celebrating a mass murderer?

Not too many I hope.

How is Columbus a mass murderer as opposed to all the others who conquered the New World?  He never even made it to the present continental US.

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This is sure to go down well.  :lol:

 

'America should get a NEW flag': Singer Macy Gray says US should ditch the Stars and Stripes because it is 'tattered, dated, divisive, and incorrect' and compares it to the Confederate Flag 

44415931-0-image-a-47_1624081698603.jpg

Macy Gray, 53, wrote the op-ed for MarketWatch ahead of Juneteenth, which was declared a federal holiday this week and is set to be celebrated on Saturday.

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8 minutes ago, Bogie56 said:

This is sure to go down well.  :lol:

 

'America should get a NEW flag': Singer Macy Gray says US should ditch the Stars and Stripes because it is 'tattered, dated, divisive, and incorrect' and compares it to the Confederate Flag 

44415931-0-image-a-47_1624081698603.jpg

Macy Gray, 53, wrote the op-ed for MarketWatch ahead of Juneteenth, which was declared a federal holiday this week and is set to be celebrated on Saturday.

This is where good progressives hold their noses and vote for people like Trump.

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14 hours ago, LsDoorMat said:

Actually the Emancipation Proclamation only applied to all states in rebellion  (from the Wikipedia):

 

Which too, would have included Texas (from Wikipedia)

The Confederacy was formed on February 8, 1861, by the seven secession slave states: South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas.[4] 

Gosh, correcting the corrector is fun!  ;) 

13 hours ago, MattJacks2003 said:

What’s the difference between MLK Day and Juneteenth?

One recognizes the birth of a significant man, the other acknowledges a significant occasion.  (D'OH!)  .   :rolleyes:

Sepiatone

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50 minutes ago, Sepiatone said:

Which too, would have included Texas (from Wikipedia)

The Confederacy was formed on February 8, 1861, by the seven secession slave states: South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas.[4] 

Gosh, correcting the corrector is fun!  ;) 

One recognizes the birth of a significant man, the other acknowledges a significant occasion.  (D'OH!)  .   :rolleyes:

Sepiatone

But when MLK day was proposed and "marketed," it was presented as a day to honor or recognize ALL African-Americans.  There are thousands of "significant men" and women who have never been honored with a Federal and state holiday.

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I don't believe so.  However, it WAS recognized as an "African-American holiday"  mostly by white people who had problems with racial tolerance.  And too, I recall....

As an autoworker and U.A.W. member, we had that day off from jump.  And the first official MLK day we didn't bother getting the kids ready for school and sending them off, figuring they had the day off too.

To my surprise(and chagrin) by 9 O'clock that morning the school called and wondered why my kids weren't in school.  I told the lady who called from the school that they were staying home due to the holiday.  "What holiday?" she asked, honestly puzzled.  I replied "Martin Luther King day, of course."  And SHE replied(which took me aback), " Oh. that's not OUR holiday."  

!??!?!?!?  I was incredulous.  I reminded her that while Mr.King's strive for civil rights was aimed at improving the situation for black people, that civil rights, and the protection of such wasn't just a matter for black people only.  I said, ""The protection of civil rights has benefits for white, black, brown, yellow people and even idiots like YOU!"  and then I hung up the phone.    Then when we sent the girls to school the next day they each carried a note for their teachers that read, " If my child experiences any punitive action due to our keeping her home from school in recognition of Mr. King's birthday you will next be hearing from an attorney."    By the following year the Lincoln Park, MI school system made MLK day a day off from school day too.

Sepiatone 

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4 hours ago, Bogie56 said:

This is sure to go down well.  :lol:

 

'America should get a NEW flag': Singer Macy Gray says US should ditch the Stars and Stripes because it is 'tattered, dated, divisive, and incorrect' and compares it to the Confederate Flag 

44415931-0-image-a-47_1624081698603.jpg

Macy Gray, 53, wrote the op-ed for MarketWatch ahead of Juneteenth, which was declared a federal holiday this week and is set to be celebrated on Saturday.

 

The flag is of a republic which is always changing, re inventing itself from unrest, social upheaval.  It is not the Perfect States  of America.

 

hqdefault.jpg

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59 minutes ago, hamradio said:

 

The flag is of a republic which is always changing, re inventing itself from unrest, social upheaval.  It is not the Perfect States  of America.

 

hqdefault.jpg

Ham, what about the White House?  Should they paint it and re-name it?

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17 hours ago, hamradio said:

If it's any comfort, countries south of the border don't celebrate Francisco Pizarro or Hernán Cortés.

That's good to know. I had forgotten about Mao, who is still celebrated in China. He was much worse than

Columbus.

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8 hours ago, ElCid said:

How is Columbus a mass murderer as opposed to all the others who conquered the New World?  He never even made it to the present continental US.

He was likely more prolific than the other mass murderers who came to the "New World." Yes he never actually

set foot in what became the U.S., so why have a holiday for him? Partly as a sop to Italian-Americans at the time,

when the atrocities of Columbus were not well known. Now that they are, it's time to stop celebrating a killer.

 

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6 hours ago, Sepiatone said:

Which too, would have included Texas (from Wikipedia)

The Confederacy was formed on February 8, 1861, by the seven secession slave states: South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas.[4] 

Gosh, correcting the corrector is fun!  ;) 

One recognizes the birth of a significant man, the other acknowledges a significant occasion.  (D'OH!)  .   :rolleyes:

Sepiatone

I'm not arguing with any of this. You were saying that "Actually, it ended in 1863 or 2  with the signing of Abraham Lincoln's EMANCIPATION PROCLAMATION,  Einstein.  " You are flat wrong. I don't know how to say this more clearly. 

I am simply saying that, according to the Emancipation Proclamation, if the Confederacy (and of course I realize this includes Texas)  had laid down its arms in December 1862, this proclamation would have freed nobody. It had no power over Maryland, for example, even after Jan. 1, 1863 because it only applied to states in rebellion. And although the Union forces in Galveston announced that slaves were free, many were not actually freed in the distant parts of Texas - far west Texas and the panhandle - until later, some not until the ratification of the 13th amendment. 

Perhaps this applies to you:

 

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Texas was also the site of the last battle of the Civil War (Wikipedia):

The Battle of Palmito Ranch, also known as the Battle of Palmito Hill, is considered by some criteria as the final battle of the American Civil War. It was fought May 12 and 13, 1865, on the banks of the Rio Grande east of Brownsville, Texas, and a few miles from the seaport of Los Brazos de Santiago, at the southern tip of Texas. The battle took place more than a month after the general surrender of Confederate forces to Union forces at Appomattox Court House, which had since been communicated to both commanders at Palmito, and in the intervening weeks the Confederacy had collapsed entirely, so it could also be classified as a postwar action.

Union and Confederate forces in southern Texas had been observing an unofficial truce since the beginning of 1865, but Union Colonel Theodore H. Barrett, newly assigned to command an all-black unit and never having been involved in combat, ordered an attack on a Confederate camp near Fort Brown for unknown reasons. The Union attackers captured a few prisoners, but the following day the attack was repulsed near Palmito Ranch by Colonel John Salmon Ford, and the battle resulted in a Confederate victory. Union forces were surprised by artillery said to have been supplied by the French Army garrison occupying the up-river Mexican town of Matamoros.

Casualty estimates are not dependable, but Union Private John J. Williams of the 34th Indiana Infantry Regiment is believed to have been the last man killed during the engagement. He could then arguably be reckoned as the last man killed in the war.

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1 hour ago, Vautrin said:

He was likely more prolific than the other mass murderers who came to the "New World." Yes he never actually

set foot in what became the U.S., so why have a holiday for him? Partly as a sop to Italian-Americans at the time,

when the atrocities of Columbus were not well known. Now that they are, it's time to stop celebrating a killer.

 

History's 9 Most Murderous Explorers, Ranked by How Awful They Were

https://www.thrillist.com/travel/nation/columbus-pizarro-and-other-world-explorers-ranked-by-how-many-they-killed

 

Good to know somebody's keeping track.

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On 6/18/2021 at 5:53 PM, Vautrin said:

American Indians. Easy, Get rid of the holiday for the mass murderer and give it to them.

I wasn't aware there was a holiday for Charles Manson. Is that a California thing? If so I'm OK with that! 

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8 hours ago, Bogie56 said:

This is sure to go down well.  :lol:

 

'America should get a NEW flag': Singer Macy Gray says US should ditch the Stars and Stripes because it is 'tattered, dated, divisive, and incorrect' and compares it to the Confederate Flag 

44415931-0-image-a-47_1624081698603.jpg

Macy Gray, 53, wrote the op-ed for MarketWatch ahead of Juneteenth, which was declared a federal holiday this week and is set to be celebrated on Saturday.

I think the flag should change SOON, to add Stars for DC, and if its citizens want it, Puerto Rico, hopefully two new states for the Union.!  

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2 hours ago, hamradio said:

History's 9 Most Murderous Explorers, Ranked by How Awful They Were

https://www.thrillist.com/travel/nation/columbus-pizarro-and-other-world-explorers-ranked-by-how-many-they-killed

 

Good to know somebody's keeping track.

It's a tough job but somebody has to do it. Columbus comes in at number three, which is still pretty bad.

Cortes at number one. Guess Neil Young knew what he was singing about. 

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2 hours ago, LsDoorMat said:

I wasn't aware there was a holiday for Charles Manson. Is that a California thing? If so I'm OK with that! 

I'm no expert but I don't think there's much support for a Charles Manson holiday, either at the 

federal or state level. Same for John Wayne Gacy. 

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5 minutes ago, Vautrin said:

It's a tough job but somebody has to do it. Columbus comes in at number three, which is still pretty bad.

Cortes at number one. Guess Neil Young knew what he was singing about. 

Something I find interesting in this age of cancel culture is that, since the most brutal explorers were Spanish (Cortes, Pizarro, etc.), it's ironic that speaking Spanish and purveying Spanish as a second language is a kind of "woke-ness."  Perhaps it should be cancelled, in the Western Hemisphere. The Spaniards were far more brutal than the English. (The French were pretty bad, yet they still speak French in Haiti. These languages are much more a part of the colonial culture than some old statue!)

Peter Shaffer's play The Royal Hunt of the Sun, though fiction, is based on the encounter between Pizarro and Atahualpa. It's heartbreaking. 

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