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THE CELLULOID CLOSET on TCM tonight 9:30pm EST


Allhallowsday
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1 hour ago, Allhallowsday said:

THE CELLULOID CLOSET on TCM tonight 9:30pm EST

This was a good program, as I recall. Unfortunately, Vito Russo's book of the same name is very disorganized, though full of interesting observations.

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I wish I'd seen this thread. I tuned in last night to see what was on and realized it was all Pride related documentaries.  I didn't know it was on the schedule. I'd seen Closet before, but watched it again. Was it REALLY a premiere??? I know I've seen it on tv before, where else could I have seen it? Maybe it was on PBS.

The first docu about AIDS victims was so sad. I missed the first 15 mins. I don't like to think back to those times. Was such a  horrible time. I had never seen this one before. I didnt realize Vito Russo was in it until near the end (who wrote the Celluloid Closet book) which made it even sadder.

I recorded the film about the Nazis. Was on too late for me to watch.

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21 minutes ago, Hibi said:

I wish I'd seen this thread. I tuned in last night to see what was on and realized it was all Pride related documentaries.  I didn't know it was on the schedule. I'd seen Closet before, but watched it again. Was it REALLY a premiere??? I know I've seen it on tv before, where else could I have seen it? Maybe it was on PBS.

The first docu about AIDS victims was so sad. I missed the first 15 mins. I don't like to think back to those times. Was such a  horrible time. I had never seen this one before. I didnt realize Vito Russo was in it until near the end (who wrote the Celluloid Closet book) which made it even sadder.

I recorded the film about the Nazis. Was on too late for me to watch.

It was a TCM premiere.   You might have seen it on HBO, as they were a production partner.

My only beef with that film is that they don't consistently identify the film clips being shown.  The film would be improved, IMO, if there were graphics identifying the films.  Some are widely known, but there are obscure films in there as well, and they don't always identify them with narration.

I saw Paragraph 175 in the theaters on its initial release.   The law actually dates all the way back to 1871, and was only removed from the books in 1994, but of course the Nazis broadened the scope of the law and used it to imprison and kill gay men in concentration/extermination camps.  Even after the war, the law was used to convict some 50,000 men in West Germany between 1945 and 1969.  They relaxed the law by setting an age of consent of 21 in 1969, and the number of arrests and convictions dropped considerably.   

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11 minutes ago, txfilmfan said:

It 

My only beef with that film is that they don't consistently identify the film clips being shown.  The film would be improved, IMO, if there were graphics identifying the films.  Some are widely known, but there are obscure films in there as well, and they don't always identify them with narration.

I

I agree

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23 minutes ago, txfilmfan said:

It was a TCM premiere.   You might have seen it on HBO, as they were a production partner.

My only beef with that film is that they don't consistently identify the film clips being shown.  The film would be improved, IMO, if there were graphics identifying the films.  Some are widely known, but there are obscure films in there as well, and they don't always identify them with narration.

I saw Paragraph 175 in the theaters on its initial release.   The law actually dates all the way back to 1871, and was only removed from the books in 1994, but of course the Nazis broadened the scope of the law and used it to imprison and kill gay men in concentration/extermination camps.  Even after the war, the law was used to convict some 50,000 men in West Germany between 1945 and 1969.  They relaxed the law by setting an age of consent of 21 in 1969, and the number of arrests and convictions dropped considerably.   

Awful. No, I don't get HBO. I must've seen it on PBS then.

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I love this documentary and I'm so glad TCM showed it.  I hadn't seen it for many years.  It traces the history of GLBT people in film and covers the issues of secrecy and demonization.  It ends on a more positive note but I still wish there was a more authentic portrayal of GLBT in films rather than characterizations.

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True portrayals are no doubt few and far between.  But movies do still fall back on "flaming" stereotypes.  But not only on LGBT movie characters, but also stereotypes of African-American, Latino and Asian-American characters too. 

Sepiatone

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1 hour ago, Sepiatone said:

True portrayals are no doubt few and far between.  But movies do still fall back on "flaming" stereotypes.  But not only on LGBT movie characters, but also stereotypes of African-American, Latino and Asian-American characters too. 

Sepiatone

I remember an interview Scott Thompson from the Kids in the Hall comedy troupe gave back in the mid '90s when he joined the cast of the Larry Sanders Show.  He was asked the usual questions about the portrayal of gays on film and television. He answered back with the stock, "wish there were more opportunities to show different types of gays and lesbians. Not all gay men are effeminate, not all lesbians are butch. We have just as many different types of personalities as straights", response. Interviewer then said something to the effect of, "so your going to play your character as a regular person who's also gay?".  Thompson grinned broadly and answered, "Hell no! I'm flaming it up!" 😂

Loved seeing him mess with the interviewer.

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16 hours ago, sagebrush said:

The film which aired really early this morning, WORD IS OUT: STORIES OF SOME OF OUR LIVES was a really good and heartbreaking documentary. If it's on Watch TCM, I recommend it.

It's sad that most of the people in it are probably dead now. Who knows how many died of AIDS.

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20 hours ago, Hibi said:

No. Why would they?

Because he went from being a major star for MGM to being unemployable because he wouldn't give up his partner and their "lifestyle." The Wisecracker documentary (based on William Mann's book) was done by HBO. He had the last laugh because his interior design services were later sought out by some of the wives of the executives who turned their backs on him. 

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On 6/29/2021 at 10:25 AM, txfilmfan said:

It was a TCM premiere.   You might have seen it on HBO, as they were a production partner.

My only beef with that film is that they don't consistently identify the film clips being shown.  The film would be improved, IMO, if there were graphics identifying the films.  Some are widely known, but there are obscure films in there as well, and they don't always identify them with narration.

I Tivo'd The Celluloid Closet and only glanced at certain parts of it, but I also noticed that they seemed to identify neither the clips nor the talking heads.  I remember watching it years ago on Bravo (back before it was a haven of trashy reality shows!), and I could have sworn the version shown there identified the clips because I specifically remember it being the first time I heard of movies like Our Betters and Wonder Bar, who's titles were not mentioned at all until the closing credits in the print TCM ran.

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15 hours ago, DougieB said:

Because he went from being a major star for MGM to being unemployable because he wouldn't give up his partner and their "lifestyle." The Wisecracker documentary (based on William Mann's book) was done by HBO. He had the last laugh because his interior design services were later sought out by some of the wives of the executives who turned their backs on him. 

Yes, I know all that. But just because he was a gay actor, I don't think it means they have to include him. There were many!

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11 hours ago, Feego said:

I Tivo'd The Celluloid Closet and only glanced at certain parts of it, but I also noticed that they seemed to identify neither the clips nor the talking heads.  I remember watching it years ago on Bravo (back before it was a haven of trashy reality shows!), and I could have sworn the version shown there identified the clips because I specifically remember it being the first time I heard of movies like Our Betters and Wonder Bar, who's titles were not mentioned at all until the closing credits in the print TCM ran.

That's strange. Maybe that's where I saw it (Bravo). I know I'd seen it on tv before. I don't really remember about the titles though.

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33 minutes ago, Hibi said:

Is there a recording of it or witnesses besides the two?

Not sure how we got down the rabbit hole. Haines' only major biographer to date, William Mann, wrote that there are two avenues of speculation about what happened when Mayer called Billy into his office. Most favor the idea that he told Billy to dump his partner Jimmie. Others think Mayer may have insisted Billy marry a woman, because that particular threat was happening all over the studio to "bachelors". In either case, Billy refused and his career was over. I spoke metaphorically about Billy's fu, but it's true in spirit. Billy said it was about Jimmie for the rest of his life, so make of that what you will. (And, yes, there were plenty of witnesses to Billy holding to that story, but probably no recordings.) 

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