Allhallowsday Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 THE CELLULOID CLOSET on TCM tonight 9:30pm EST 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LornaHansonForbes Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 35 minutes ago, Allhallowsday said: THE CELLULOID CLOSET on TCM tonight 9:30pm EST Thanks for the alert, it’s a fun documentary. Remember seeing it on the big screen ca. 1995. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingrat Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 1 hour ago, Allhallowsday said: THE CELLULOID CLOSET on TCM tonight 9:30pm EST This was a good program, as I recall. Unfortunately, Vito Russo's book of the same name is very disorganized, though full of interesting observations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hibi Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 I wish I'd seen this thread. I tuned in last night to see what was on and realized it was all Pride related documentaries. I didn't know it was on the schedule. I'd seen Closet before, but watched it again. Was it REALLY a premiere??? I know I've seen it on tv before, where else could I have seen it? Maybe it was on PBS. The first docu about AIDS victims was so sad. I missed the first 15 mins. I don't like to think back to those times. Was such a horrible time. I had never seen this one before. I didnt realize Vito Russo was in it until near the end (who wrote the Celluloid Closet book) which made it even sadder. I recorded the film about the Nazis. Was on too late for me to watch. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txfilmfan Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 21 minutes ago, Hibi said: I wish I'd seen this thread. I tuned in last night to see what was on and realized it was all Pride related documentaries. I didn't know it was on the schedule. I'd seen Closet before, but watched it again. Was it REALLY a premiere??? I know I've seen it on tv before, where else could I have seen it? Maybe it was on PBS. The first docu about AIDS victims was so sad. I missed the first 15 mins. I don't like to think back to those times. Was such a horrible time. I had never seen this one before. I didnt realize Vito Russo was in it until near the end (who wrote the Celluloid Closet book) which made it even sadder. I recorded the film about the Nazis. Was on too late for me to watch. It was a TCM premiere. You might have seen it on HBO, as they were a production partner. My only beef with that film is that they don't consistently identify the film clips being shown. The film would be improved, IMO, if there were graphics identifying the films. Some are widely known, but there are obscure films in there as well, and they don't always identify them with narration. I saw Paragraph 175 in the theaters on its initial release. The law actually dates all the way back to 1871, and was only removed from the books in 1994, but of course the Nazis broadened the scope of the law and used it to imprison and kill gay men in concentration/extermination camps. Even after the war, the law was used to convict some 50,000 men in West Germany between 1945 and 1969. They relaxed the law by setting an age of consent of 21 in 1969, and the number of arrests and convictions dropped considerably. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nakano Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 11 minutes ago, txfilmfan said: It My only beef with that film is that they don't consistently identify the film clips being shown. The film would be improved, IMO, if there were graphics identifying the films. Some are widely known, but there are obscure films in there as well, and they don't always identify them with narration. I I agree 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hibi Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 23 minutes ago, txfilmfan said: It was a TCM premiere. You might have seen it on HBO, as they were a production partner. My only beef with that film is that they don't consistently identify the film clips being shown. The film would be improved, IMO, if there were graphics identifying the films. Some are widely known, but there are obscure films in there as well, and they don't always identify them with narration. I saw Paragraph 175 in the theaters on its initial release. The law actually dates all the way back to 1871, and was only removed from the books in 1994, but of course the Nazis broadened the scope of the law and used it to imprison and kill gay men in concentration/extermination camps. Even after the war, the law was used to convict some 50,000 men in West Germany between 1945 and 1969. They relaxed the law by setting an age of consent of 21 in 1969, and the number of arrests and convictions dropped considerably. Awful. No, I don't get HBO. I must've seen it on PBS then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toto Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 I love this documentary and I'm so glad TCM showed it. I hadn't seen it for many years. It traces the history of GLBT people in film and covers the issues of secrecy and demonization. It ends on a more positive note but I still wish there was a more authentic portrayal of GLBT in films rather than characterizations. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sepiatone Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 True portrayals are no doubt few and far between. But movies do still fall back on "flaming" stereotypes. But not only on LGBT movie characters, but also stereotypes of African-American, Latino and Asian-American characters too. Sepiatone 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citizen Ed Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 1 hour ago, Sepiatone said: True portrayals are no doubt few and far between. But movies do still fall back on "flaming" stereotypes. But not only on LGBT movie characters, but also stereotypes of African-American, Latino and Asian-American characters too. Sepiatone I remember an interview Scott Thompson from the Kids in the Hall comedy troupe gave back in the mid '90s when he joined the cast of the Larry Sanders Show. He was asked the usual questions about the portrayal of gays on film and television. He answered back with the stock, "wish there were more opportunities to show different types of gays and lesbians. Not all gay men are effeminate, not all lesbians are butch. We have just as many different types of personalities as straights", response. Interviewer then said something to the effect of, "so your going to play your character as a regular person who's also gay?". Thompson grinned broadly and answered, "Hell no! I'm flaming it up!" 😂 Loved seeing him mess with the interviewer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagebrush Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 The film which aired really early this morning, WORD IS OUT: STORIES OF SOME OF OUR LIVES was a really good and heartbreaking documentary. If it's on Watch TCM, I recommend it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopBilled Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 What TCM aired: COMMON THREADS: STORIES FROM THE QUILT (1989) THE CELLULOID CLOSET (1995)PARAGRAPH 175 (2000)THE TIMES OF HARVEY MILK (1984)WORD IS OUT: STORIES OF SOME OF OUR LIVES (1977)BEFORE STONEWALL (1985) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hibi Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 16 hours ago, sagebrush said: The film which aired really early this morning, WORD IS OUT: STORIES OF SOME OF OUR LIVES was a really good and heartbreaking documentary. If it's on Watch TCM, I recommend it. It's sad that most of the people in it are probably dead now. Who knows how many died of AIDS. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UMO1982 Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 Did they air the TCM William Haines documentary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hibi Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 No. Why would they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougieB Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 20 hours ago, Hibi said: No. Why would they? Because he went from being a major star for MGM to being unemployable because he wouldn't give up his partner and their "lifestyle." The Wisecracker documentary (based on William Mann's book) was done by HBO. He had the last laugh because his interior design services were later sought out by some of the wives of the executives who turned their backs on him. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feego Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 On 6/29/2021 at 10:25 AM, txfilmfan said: It was a TCM premiere. You might have seen it on HBO, as they were a production partner. My only beef with that film is that they don't consistently identify the film clips being shown. The film would be improved, IMO, if there were graphics identifying the films. Some are widely known, but there are obscure films in there as well, and they don't always identify them with narration. I Tivo'd The Celluloid Closet and only glanced at certain parts of it, but I also noticed that they seemed to identify neither the clips nor the talking heads. I remember watching it years ago on Bravo (back before it was a haven of trashy reality shows!), and I could have sworn the version shown there identified the clips because I specifically remember it being the first time I heard of movies like Our Betters and Wonder Bar, who's titles were not mentioned at all until the closing credits in the print TCM ran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hibi Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 15 hours ago, DougieB said: Because he went from being a major star for MGM to being unemployable because he wouldn't give up his partner and their "lifestyle." The Wisecracker documentary (based on William Mann's book) was done by HBO. He had the last laugh because his interior design services were later sought out by some of the wives of the executives who turned their backs on him. Yes, I know all that. But just because he was a gay actor, I don't think it means they have to include him. There were many! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hibi Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 11 hours ago, Feego said: I Tivo'd The Celluloid Closet and only glanced at certain parts of it, but I also noticed that they seemed to identify neither the clips nor the talking heads. I remember watching it years ago on Bravo (back before it was a haven of trashy reality shows!), and I could have sworn the version shown there identified the clips because I specifically remember it being the first time I heard of movies like Our Betters and Wonder Bar, who's titles were not mentioned at all until the closing credits in the print TCM ran. That's strange. Maybe that's where I saw it (Bravo). I know I'd seen it on tv before. I don't really remember about the titles though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougieB Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 5 minutes ago, Hibi said: Yes, I know all that. But just because he was a gay actor, I don't think it means they have to include him. There were many! Not many who told Louis B. Mayer to go f*** himself. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hibi Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 22 minutes ago, DougieB said: Not many who told Louis B. Mayer to go f*** himself. So he said...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UMO1982 Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 12 minutes ago, Hibi said: So he said...... So he did.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hibi Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 46 minutes ago, UMO1982 said: So he did.... Is there a recording of it or witnesses besides the two? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougieB Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 33 minutes ago, Hibi said: Is there a recording of it or witnesses besides the two? Not sure how we got down the rabbit hole. Haines' only major biographer to date, William Mann, wrote that there are two avenues of speculation about what happened when Mayer called Billy into his office. Most favor the idea that he told Billy to dump his partner Jimmie. Others think Mayer may have insisted Billy marry a woman, because that particular threat was happening all over the studio to "bachelors". In either case, Billy refused and his career was over. I spoke metaphorically about Billy's fu, but it's true in spirit. Billy said it was about Jimmie for the rest of his life, so make of that what you will. (And, yes, there were plenty of witnesses to Billy holding to that story, but probably no recordings.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hibi Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 Yes, I've no doubt it was his decision to walk. I was questioning whether he actually SAID those words to L.B....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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