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Historians: Trump Was Only the Fourth-Worst President of All Time


TomJH
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On 7/1/2021 at 8:19 PM, hamradio said:

Reagan accepted responsibility for the arms for hostage deal but while he was a vocal supporter of the Contra cause, the evidence is disputed as to whether he personally authorized the diversion of funds to the Contras.  Neither investigation found evidence that President Reagan himself knew of the extent of the multiple programs.

Did he take responsibility for the thousands of people who died of AIDS because he ignored the epidemic???

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2 hours ago, Hibi said:

Did he take responsibility for the thousands of people who died of AIDS because he ignored the epidemic???

How is someone's sexual / drug habits his responsibility?  I still remember the call to quarantine the very early cases but that would had VIOLATED THEIR RIGHTS!

AIDS can only be transmitted by sexual contact or sharing drug needles, the early cases unfortunately for children were caused by tainted blood transfusions whom has LONG since died off. 

Should I feel sorry for those getting other STD's that's totally preventable?

HISTORY OF HIV AND AIDS 

https://www.avert.org/professionals/history-hiv-aids/overview

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On 7/1/2021 at 8:19 PM, hamradio said:

Neither investigation found evidence that President Reagan himself knew of the extent of the multiple programs.

Haha I first read that as "multiple org as ms"

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On 7/1/2021 at 12:16 PM, laffite said:

Trump is listed #41 in the OP. i missed that.

That Trump is not rated dead last is ridiculous.

Took me a while to figure that out as well.

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Ronald Reagan has always been overrated as president.  He was a mediocre actor who was able to read lines and follow directions.  This sold the American people on a lot of poor policies.

As for the Berlin Wall, an actor playing a role well on a stage.  Of course, by that point Gorbochev was in desperate need of much from America and Europe and in control of a country in dire straits.  Suck up to Reagan?  No brainer.  Look good for Europeans? No brainer.  Gorby was probably ready to tear down the wall anyway.

Reagan invaded Grenada to distract from his failures in Beirut which cost hundreds of Marines their lives.

I was in the Army when Reagan became president and serving in a unit (among many) that was heading toward being eliminated.  Correctly so.   Under Reagan so much money was thrown at us we could not spend it all and units were not eliminated.  Same with many other units.  Massive debts to fund the "Reagan Military" expansion.  We are still funding it today.

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2 hours ago, ElCid said:

Ronald Reagan has always been overrated as president

Not so much overrated as simply having a Republican following. Amazing how that this trait of sounding reassuring and positive and making us "feel good," can effect his rankings. Amazing too how the Republicans put up these shallow men to bolster support from idiots. Reagan, GWB, Trump (and we could have had Quayle). Democrats are not perfect but they are seldom airheads.

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I had no use for Reagan as president, but I thought he was far from being the worst, and of course, nowhere near the best.  And unlike his political detractors, I never thought he was that bad as an actor. 

4 hours ago, ElCid said:

 

Reagan invaded Grenada to distract from his failures in Beirut which cost hundreds of Marines their lives.

 

Republicans were always better at PR "sleight of hand" than democrats.  Some thought that GHW Bush's Kuwait invasion was to distract public awareness from son Neil's involvement with Charles Keating  and the savings and loan scandal. And that invasion, and the whole waste of funds, lives and face was based on false intel about Iraqi soldiers invading Kuwait hospitals,  going int maternity wards and throwing newborn babies on the floor and stomping on them.

Just like his son's misguided invasion of Iraq under the unproven belief that Saddam Hussein was behind the 9/11 attack on the WTC and in cahoots with Osama Bin Laden, and all that distracted by his insistence that Hussein was hiding WMDs  somewhere.  But he probably(according to some) did so to avenge Daddy's often criticized failure to dethrone Hussein. 

All that "Desert Shield" and then "Desert Storm"  waste of money and lives never had to happen.  And if not for that, Dubya might have been hailed as the president that captured Bin Laden and possibly executed him.

Sepiatone

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28 minutes ago, Sepiatone said:

I had no use for Reagan as president, but I thought he was far from being the worst, and of course, nowhere near the best.  And unlike his political detractors, I never thought he was that bad as an actor. 

Republicans were always better at PR "sleight of hand" than democrats.  Some thought that GHW Bush's Kuwait invasion was to distract public awareness from son Neil's involvement with Charles Keating  and the savings and loan scandal. And that invasion, and the whole waste of funds, lives and face was based on false intel about Iraqi soldiers invading Kuwait hospitals,  going int maternity wards and throwing newborn babies on the floor and stomping on them.

Just like his son's misguided invasion of Iraq under the unproven belief that Saddam Hussein was behind the 9/11 attack on the WTC and in cahoots with Osama Bin Laden, and all that distracted by his insistence that Hussein was hiding WMDs  somewhere.  But he probably(according to some) did so to avenge Daddy's often criticized failure to dethrone Hussein. 

All that "Desert Shield" and then "Desert Storm"  waste of money and lives never had to happen.  And if not for that, Dubya might have been hailed as the president that captured Bin Laden and possibly executed him.

Sepiatone

As someone who was in "Desert Shield" and "Desert Storm," I beg to disagree.  I was also in Vietnam.  The official name for the war is The Gulf War.

I did not believe we should have been in Vietnam and still don't.  However, we did need to be in Desert Storm.  If the US and the allied nations (most of the world) had not stopped Saddam Hussein, he would have taken over other countries or at least their oil.   

The war was in part about oil, but mostly about stopping an evil dictator from conquering his region, subjugating other nations and destroying a delicate balance of power in a region of great importance to the rest of the world. 

Vietnam was a useless war and we never should have been there.   Perhaps if there had been a competent,    motivated, democratic South Vietnamese government with an uncorrupted army willing to fight, might have been a different story.  But, probably not.

As for Iraq, another war we should not have began.  Saddam was no longer a threat to the region and could be contained.  Bush and Cheney  are to blame for that one.   For those who don't know, Cheney was Sec. of Defense and Colin Powell was Chairman of Joint Chiefs of Staff during the Gulf War.  Thank God, Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf was commander of Central Command and led the Gulf War.

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On 7/3/2021 at 1:17 AM, hamradio said:

How is someone's sexual / drug habits his responsibility?  I still remember the call to quarantine the very early cases but that would had VIOLATED THEIR RIGHTS!

AIDS can only be transmitted by sexual contact or sharing drug needles, the early cases unfortunately for children were caused by tainted blood transfusions whom has LONG since died off. 

Should I feel sorry for those getting other STD's that's totally preventable?

HISTORY OF HIV AND AIDS 

https://www.avert.org/professionals/history-hiv-aids/overview

HIS RESPONSIBILITY? HE WAS THE F-ING PRESIDENT! He ignored the crisis and allowed it to spread! How many kids with blood conditions died because the powers that be considered it a homosexual disease????? You think if it  was killing off straight people they would have sat on their hands so long? It took a celebrity death (Hudson) for them to finally  DO something.

I'll never forgive him and his cronies for what they DIDNT do! His getting ALZ was karma!

 

 

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8 hours ago, HIGHWAY said:

 

TOTAL BS AS TO THE REASONS WHY WE GOT INTO THE GULF WAR.   

How ignorant are you about the real world?  Apparently a whole lot.  

As someone who was there, who studied the Middle East military and political situation for ten years before the war and then read many, many articles and books after the war, I can honestly and correctly say that you are wrong and this presentation is wrong.

One thing to remember is that for the first time since WW II, the American people in masses welcomed home the troops who had been in the Gulf War.  The current high regard the public (other than you and Democracy Now) has for our military personnel is directly linked to the Gulf War, the justice and right of our mission.  What some mediocre politicians did to sell the war before hand does not mean much compared to the realities of what was happening and what could happen.

The United States does a lot of things wrong militarily, but The Gulf War was not one of them.  Almost the whole world agreed with us and participated in the war.

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Just now, ElCid said:

TOTAL BS AS TO THE REASONS WHY WE GOT INTO THE GULF WAR.   

How ignorant are you about the real world?  Apparently a whole lot.  

As someone who was there, who studied the Middle East military and political situation for ten years before the war and then read many, many articles and books after the war, I can honestly and correctly say that you are wrong and this presentation is wrong.

One thing to remember is that for the first time since WW II, the American people in masses welcomed home the troops who had been in the Gulf War.  The current high regard the public (other than you and Democracy Now) has for our military personnel is directly linked to the Gulf War, the justice and right of our mission.    People still say "Thank you for your service" and mean it.  That started with The Gulf War.   What some mediocre politicians did to sell the war before hand does not mean much compared to the realities of what was happening and what could happen, nor the real reasons we were there.

The United States does a lot of things wrong militarily, but The Gulf War was not one of them.  Almost the whole world agreed with us and participated in the war.

 

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3 hours ago, Hibi said:

HIS RESPONSIBILITY? HE WAS THE F-ING PRESIDENT! He ignored the crisis and allowed it to spread! How many kids with blood conditions died because the powers that be considered it a homosexual disease????? You think if i  was killing off straight people they would have sat on their hands so long? It took a celebrity death (Hudson) for them to finally  DO something.

I'll never forgive him and his cronies for what they DIDNT do! His getting ALZ was karma!

 

 

Again how can any president for responsible for STD's including AIDS?? 

Seems people haven't learned anything!  I should cry??

 

STD Rates Continue to Rise in the U.S.

https://www.webmd.com/sexual-conditions/news/20191008/std-rates-continue-to-rise-in-the-us

https://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/2019/2018-STD-surveillance-report-press-release.html

CDC-CS-2018-Overview_higRes.jpg

 

Give THANKS the AIDS virus  isn't contagious like covid or the flu.  The next time we may not be lucky! (regarding any new STD  virus)

Look FAMILIAR?

0x0.jpg

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Maybe I can answer my own question...Again how can any president be responsible for STD's including AIDS?? 

Reagan should had asked Congress to pass the "Keep Your Pants on and Zipped Act"

He will sign it.  Violators will be arrested and fined for endangering the health of the public because of promiscuity.  Health insurances for those convicted will have their policies raised.

Repeat offenders could be neutered or spayed to reduce their undesirable impulses.

(this is a rhetorical response to get my point across)

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2 hours ago, HIGHWAY said:

 

This was the first war to use smart bombs to avoid civilian casualties.  Some did die from being human sheilds and AAA raining back on the population.

Wish other wars were this FAST!

That being said, the 2nd Gulf War of 2003 was completely UNWARRANTED! :angry:

 

How dare he threaten my daddy!

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQzTBPnWt7FfYxyK48LZW5

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7 hours ago, hamradio said:

Maybe I can answer my own question...Again how can any president for responsible for STD's including AIDS?? 

Reagan should had asked Congress to pass the "Keep Your Pants on and Zipped Act"

He will sign it.  Violators will be arrested and fined for endangering the health of the public because of promiscuity.  Health insurances for those convicted will have their policies raised.

Repeat offenders could be neutered or spayed to reduce their undesirable impulses.

(this is a rhetorical response to get my point across)

It is called funding and research, and funding research!  Reagan did not do anything in this respect, definitely did not lead on it, and the country, and apparently you, did not care because of its/your homophobia.  “Let them die, it’s God’s will.”  PATHETIC, then and now!!

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12 hours ago, hamradio said:

If any bleeding heart liberal think I'm going to shed a tear over somebody getting a disease from reckless sexual behavior whether if its straight or gay is going to be in for hell of a disappointment. :angry:

 

What about antivaxers and others refusing to get the COVID shots?

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1 hour ago, ElCid said:

What about antivaxers and others refusing to get the COVID shots?

Well that's up to them but can't complain about wearing mask or what happens if they contract it.

It's the producers of  bad vaccines during the 1980's - '90's which has help caused this fear.  Glad vaccine makers has cleaned up their act and gotten rid of the crud i.e. preservatives, mercury, etc. (remember that news report "Mercury is Good For You"?) 

The Moderna  vaccine do not use the virus itself - dead or alive only the spike protein so our cells can produce the antigen for an immune response.  I studied it before taking it.

There may be a glimmer of hope mRNA tech might be the key to finding a vaccine for the AIDS and flu virus.

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On 7/3/2021 at 10:50 PM, ElCid said:

TOTAL BS AS TO THE REASONS WHY WE GOT INTO THE GULF WAR.   

How ignorant are you about the real world?  Apparently a whole lot.  

As someone who was there, who studied the Middle East military and political situation for ten years before the war and then read many, many articles and books after the war, I can honestly and correctly say that you are wrong and this presentation is wrong.

One thing to remember is that for the first time since WW II, the American people in masses welcomed home the troops who had been in the Gulf War.  The current high regard the public (other than you and Democracy Now) has for our military personnel is directly linked to the Gulf War, the justice and right of our mission.  What some mediocre politicians did to sell the war before hand does not mean much compared to the realities of what was happening and what could happen.

The United States does a lot of things wrong militarily, but The Gulf War was not one of them.  Almost the whole world agreed with us and participated in the war.

But you gotta remember....

Bush got it going based on FALSE INFORMATION.  Just as did his son concerning Iraq.

Sepiatone

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21 hours ago, Sepiatone said:

But you gotta remember....

Bush got it going based on FALSE INFORMATION.  Just as did his son concerning Iraq.

Sepiatone

Please reference where you obtained information that George H.W. Bush used "false information."    He may have used exaggeration, as politicians always do, to sell it to the general public. 

But the real facts were that Saddam invaded Kuwait, practiced brutalities on the populace and was threatening Saudi Arabia.  He stated that Kuwait was a part of Iraq and he would not give it up.  After S.A, the rest of Gulf states were on the line.

The rest of the world accepted the validity of the information BEFORE Desert Shield, much less Desert Storm even began.

You have to know that what politicians said on TV or to news media was not near as much as they relayed to foreign countries.  Much less what US military and intelligence knew.

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