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What romances do you just hate?


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Okay, there's a TV movie I have to mention with regards to this topic. A few days ago someone uploaded a 1981 telefilm called THIN ICE on YouTube. It stars Kate Jackson and was made between Charlie's Angels and Scarecrow & Mrs. King

I watched it, or rather watched half of it, for two main reasons. First, I like Jackson's acting and figured she'd be good in this production. Second, Lillian Gish makes a rare television appearance playing Jackson's grandmother so I thought that would "up" the quality. And yes, those two are very good together in their scenes.

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But the story, that's another matter altogether. Jackson plays a high school history teacher. She is recently widowed, has no kids, and is said to be 28, though Jackson looks older than that. In one of her history classes, there is a muscular student who recently turned 18.

She takes some of her history students on a field trip, and the muscular guy is part of the group. During the trip, these two forge a strong friendship. After the trip, he wants to take her out on his sailboat one day because he had mentioned his love of sailing to her on the trip. She agrees. Out on the water, the two remain platonic. But they are developing romantic feelings. He then comes by her home to watch a movie and to arrange another excursion (horseback riding). They kiss.

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She thinks it's moving too fast, etc. Plus she mentions the age difference and the fact she is still his teacher, though he is near graduating. 

This telefilm is not about a scandal. It's written and played as a genuine love story. And there is a happy ending, where they stand up to the naysayers (including the boy's mother and other disapproving kids). They become a permanent couple.

I could only watch half of it, and may go back to look at the rest of it later. I won't say it creeped me out, but this story, a story that a network had no qualms broadcasting in 1981, would probably not be made today. 

I just couldn't root for them as a couple. I felt like Jackson's character needed to practice restraint and if she did love him, then she should have waited till after he had finished high school to openly pursue things with him. The ten year age difference didn't bother me. What bothered me was that she still was his teacher when they began dating.

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5 minutes ago, TopBilled said:

I won't say it creeped me out, but this story, a story that a network had no probably broadcasting in 1981, would probably not be made today. 

My state passed a law within the past five years that makes it a felony for anyone working in education to have sexual relations with an 18-year-old student, as this appeared to an exploitable loophole that was upsetting people.

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2 minutes ago, sewhite2000 said:

My state passed a law within the past five years that makes it a felony for anyone working in education to have sexual relations with an 18-year-old student, as this appeared to an exploitable loophole that was upsetting people.

Yes, that's the word-- exploitable. She was not deliberately exploiting him in the story, and in fact, he was the more aggressive one wanting to have a sexual relationship with her.  And though he was no longer a minor, it felt kind of wrong.

I do think there are very durable relationships that occur with couples that have a ten year age difference. But in this case, she is in a position of authority and trust. And having an intimate relationship with him while he is still in her classroom does not seem like the correct thing to do.

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16 minutes ago, TopBilled said:

I won't say it creeped me out, but this story, a story that a network had no probably broadcasting in 1981, would probably not be made today. 

I also thought about A Teacher, a limited series on FX last year with Kate Mara that might be the modern take on the same subject matter.

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23 hours ago, DougieB said:

re: John Wayne only pairing well with Maureen O'Hara, I think he also made a good romantic partner for Donna Reed in They Were Expendable (1945) and Trouble Along the Way (1953). 

Technically it's not a romance I hate because it tickles me to death, but who can forget Sincerely Yours (1955), in which Liberace had not one but two female romantic leads, Joanne Dru and Dorothy Malone? Oh, the choices a dreamy bachelor has to make. A more likely choice would have been his manager, William Demerest, who ostentatiously smoked a cigar in his bubble bath to avoid suspicion that anything could be amiss. 

A friend heard someone say indignantly, "Liberace isn't gay! He's been engaged six times!"

Ah, those were the days.

As for those student/teacher romances: A Couple of years after graduation, one of my classmates married his high school Spanish teacher. He would have been about 20 and she would have been about 35, with a 12-year-old son. As someone said, "That explains why she was always making him stay after school."

 

 

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On 7/5/2021 at 4:06 PM, LsDoorMat said:

am I honestly expected to believe that Lane prefers the scarecrow like Lynn to the enigmatic John Garfield?

Some people prefer stable to the "woe is me" shtick.

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17 hours ago, skimpole said:

In particular I did not like the way Jane the Virgin ended

I'm assuming it ended with Jane having sex, so she was no longer a virgin?  ;) 

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I take it you've never seen THE TEACHER (1974), Top Billed?  THIN ICE isn't that much different in terms of the plot line.  Of course, there's no psycho-killer in "Thin Ice" like there is in "The Teacher", but both movies have an 18-year-old student involved with a 28-year-old teacher. 

 

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When it comes to movies about these sorts of teacher/student"interactions", there's this one too from 1971...

s-l1600.jpg

 

 

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PRETTY MAIDS ALL IN A ROW.  Ah, yes.  With Rock Hudson 'testing' many young ladies.  How this whacked-out got made is anyone's guess . . . ?   I remember Roddy McDowall saying after a majorette was murdered "Such a pretty little cheerleader!".  😜 

Somehow "Pretty Maids All In A Row" reminds me of LORD LOVE A DUCK (1966) and PRETTY POISON (1968) . . . but I don't know why?  It just DOES!

Don't forget this movie:  THE YOUNG GRADUATES (1971). 

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6 hours ago, Fedya said:

I'm assuming it ended with Jane having sex, so she was no longer a virgin?  ;) 

Well no, she got married at the end of the second season, eventually consummated it in the third after an assassination attempt on her husband, and the show ended with its fifth season.

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18 hours ago, Sepiatone said:

What!  You walked in at the middle of it?   Remember....

 

They met and had a summer "romance" somewhere before Sandy moved to Danny's hometown and registered at Rydell high.  And THEN found out he was a "greaser".   At the pep rally, remember?  ;) 

And speaking of creepy romances, here's one that didn't really get off the ground.  Except for being in the bell tower! ;)

 

employee monitoring software

 

 

Does anybody have an idea, what is Quasimodo wearing on his left hand and why is he wearing it? I mean the iron cuff or sth like that.

I can't help myself, but he looks like rapper with it 😂

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13 hours ago, Fedya said:

Some people prefer stable to the "woe is me" shtick.

I take thee Jeffrey to be my lawfully wedded bank account...ahem.. I mean husband.

Yep, that happens a lot. 

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10 hours ago, Mr. Gorman said:

I take it you've never seen THE TEACHER (1974), Top Billed?  THIN ICE isn't that much different in terms of the plot line.  Of course, there's no psycho-killer in "Thin Ice" like there is in "The Teacher", but both movies have an 18-year-old student involved with a 28-year-old teacher. 

No, I haven't seen THE TEACHER (1974). Kate Jackson was 31 when she filmed THIN ICE (1981). But as I said, we're supposed to root for the teacher and her student in THIN ICE...it's written and played as a romance for the ages. 

I suppose they picked 28 because it means she's experienced but is not exactly a 'cougar.'

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59 minutes ago, LsDoorMat said:

I take thee Jeffrey to be my lawfully wedded bank account...ahem.. I mean husband.

Yep, that happens a lot. 

It is now going to bug me all day which movie has a woman saying to a golddigger approximately the line: "When the preacher says 'Do you take this man?' he won't be kidding."

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32 minutes ago, SansFin said:

It is now going to bug me all day which movie has a woman saying to a golddigger approximately the line: "When the preacher says 'Do you take this man?' he won't be kidding."

Thanks!  Now it'll be bugging ME all day now, too!  :wacko:

 

5 hours ago, polofemilimc46 said:

 

Does anybody have an idea, what is Quasimodo wearing on his left hand and why is he wearing it? I mean the iron cuff or sth like that.

I can't help myself, but he looks like rapper with it 😂

Never paid it any mind m'self.  Now, there's something ELSE that'll be bugging me all day!  :angry:  ;) 

Sepiatone

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50 year old Cary Grant turned down the role of Linus Larabee in 1954's Sabrina because he felt he would look too old opposite 25 year old Audrey Hepburn and 36 year old William Holden.  So 55 year old Humphrey Bogart accepted the role.  Apparently Grant changed his mind when he starred with Audrey in 1963's  Charade. 

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The one television romance that I hate the most is Baby Daddy, a situation comedy that appeared on ABC Spark/Freeform from 2012-2017.   Indeed I started this thread in the first place because I wanted to complain about it.  The premise of the show is simple.  Ben Wheeler is a young New York bartender who has just moved into an apartment with his older brother Danny, and his best friend, when an ex-girlfriend drops off their three or four month baby daughter, basically giving him the option of raising it on his own or handing it over for option.  Against the advice of his brother, his friend and his mother, but not that of Ben and Danny's mutual friend, Riley (a woman) Perrin, he decides to keep it. 

Riley as a girl was very fat, and had a crush on Ben that she hid by mocking him.  She is now thin, studying to be a lawyer, and still had a crush on Ben.  Ben gradually develops a crush on her.  Danny also has a crush on her, which he's supposedly had for decades, but does nothing to pursue her.  Danny also keeps his feelings to himself, though the other two confide in him instinctively.  Three times Ben tries to date Riley, but something always goes wrong.  The third time Riley isn't honest to Ben about her feelings towards Danny.  Danny again botches an attempt to be with her, and they both end up with other people.  Ben thinks he was wrong to think they had feeling for each other, and tries to pursue Riley again, inadvertently breaking both relationships.  Danny finally tells Ben of his feelings, and Ben is bullied by his mother, who always favored Danny, such that in episode 69 he finally makes sure they are together when Danny can't do it himself.  For the final 31 episodes there is another breakup but everyone takes Danny's side and eventually Riley gets pregnant, they marry and have a baby.  Ben meanwhile has two more relationships that fall apart through no fault of his own, and in the last five minutes meets a complete stranger which is supposedly love at first sight.

I should add that Danny is rich (he's a professional hockey player), very tall (well over six feet), supposedly "sweet" and very dim.  Of the five members of the cast he is the least interesting.  But because he spends much of the show not wearing a shirt, he became the most popular cast member.  I can't stress enough how much I hate how the show ends up.   The producer claimed that the show always intended to have Danny and Riley together.  I believe this is a lie, or that the producer believes rich white men should get everything they want.  In an ordinary sitcom the eventual romance is complicated because when the boy tries to win girl, but unlucky things happen to him.  This happens to Ben repeatedly, but in this sitcom it annoys Riley and gives Danny more time that he spend sleeping with other women.  Indeed luck and effort are inversely related in this show.  Ben tries hardest and faces bad luck, Danny does little (except lie to the others) and gets one lucky break after another.  But the basic problem with Danny is that though he claims his love for Riley is so much that Ben and Riley have to give him everything, instead of telling her how he feels, he spends a decade sleeping with other women.  This is not something he has to do, it's something he chose to do.  Or to put it another way., Danny could have any other woman in the world other than the one who would make the best mother for his niece.  (The girl's mother, we learn, is no prize.) But he won't stop sleeping with the woman he's currently with.

And the resolution also ruins the other two characters.  First, if no matter how hard Ben tries he will never be good enough for the woman he loves, then why are we watching the show?  Second we know the problem wasn't that Ben was flawed, but because most of the audience had a crush on the least interesting actor because he wasn't wearing a shirt.  So there's nothing in the relationships that follows that matches what Ben had with Riley.  (The final girl doesn't actually meet the daughter.)   And so the show suggests "we couldn't be bothered to show any chemistry and connection with Ben because he doesn't deserve it," when this is a lie.  The show screwed Ben over because of money, and it encourages the viewers to hate him  to hide the fact it screwed him over for money.  And it ruins Riley as well.  If Ben is not mature enough to get Riley, why would she be with someone who is patently more stupid?  The show's "solution" is that Danny can be very stupid, but his actions have no moral consequences.  And Riley is a witch for not giving him everything he wants.  And there's also the lack of chemistry.  Ben provided Riley the confidence this nervous young woman to get along in life, while Riley provided the common sense this somewhat rash young man needed.  The best Danny can claim is that when they were in elementary school, Danny dressed up as a superhero and Riley went along.  And it ruins the relationship between Ben and Riley.  At one point Riley claims they would be better off as friends.  But they can't really be friends, because Riley clearly suggested that if Ben showed he was mature and truly loved her, she would love him back.  He kept his side of the bargain, and the show has to spend the last two seasons pretending Riley never promised that.  Because the whole point of the last two seasons is that Danny gets everything he wants because the audience has a crush on him.  Or to put it another way, the show offers a choice between true love and masturbatory fantasy, and insists the second is actually the first. 

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Time for an update...I finished watching THIN ICE, the Kate Jackson TV movie from 1981.

So here's what happens...the boy's mother complains to the school board, and the teacher (Jackson) is placed on suspension. The board intends to vote to fire her, but she gets a lawyer that plays hardball with them. The board members are depicted as unsympathetic uncaring hypocrites.

There is a scene where the board members are at a cafe discussing the case in public (highly unlikely) and some derogatory remarks they make about the teacher are overheard. So the teacher and her lawyer threaten the board with a $2 million lawsuit for defamation. I am not making this up!

Meanwhile the 18 year old guy is still smitten with the teacher and he proposes marriage to her. She doesn't exactly say no to his proposal. To her credit, she does go to look up the mother and apologizes for causing difficulty for everyone but she loves the 18 year old and insists this is no whim, but a real relationship.

In the end, the school board agrees to a settlement and will have the principal write the teacher a positive recommendation so she can maybe get a job to teach again somewhere else. The teacher has decided to marry her young man, and while she is not allowed to go back on to the school grounds, she stands outside the gate and watches the commencement ceremony. After he graduates, the young guy turns down a chance to celebrate with his family and he goes outside the gate to meet his now ex-teacher but current fiancee. They embrace and the movie ends on a happy note.

I should also mention that Lillian Gish's grandmother character is highly supportive of this relationship.

There's a wiki fandom page for the movie that features the original CBS promo:

https://made-for-tv-movie.fandom.com/wiki/Thin_Ice?file=Thin_Ice_1981_CBS_Tuesday_Night_Movies_Promo

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1 hour ago, TopBilled said:

Time for an update...I finished watching THIN ICE, the Kate Jackson TV movie from 1981.

So here's what happens...the boy's mother complains to the school board, and the teacher (Jackson) is placed on suspension. The board intends to vote to fire her, but she gets a lawyer that plays hardball with them. The board members are depicted as unsympathetic uncaring hypocrites.

There is a scene where the board members are at a cafe discussing the case in public (highly unlikely) and some derogatory remarks they make about the teacher are overheard. So the teacher and her lawyer threaten the board with a $2 million lawsuit for defamation. I am not making this up!

Meanwhile the 18 year old guy is still smitten with the teacher and he proposes marriage to her. She doesn't exactly say no or turn down his proposal. To her credit, she does go to look up the mother and apologize for causing difficulty for everyone but she loves the 18 year old and insists this is no whim, but a real relationship.

In the end, the school board agrees to a settlement and will have the principal write the teacher a positive recommendation so she can maybe get a job to teach again somewhere else. The teacher has decided to marry her young man, and while she is not allowed to go back on to the school grounds, she stands outside the gate and watches the commencement ceremony. After he graduates, the young guy turns down a chance to celebrate with his family and he goes outside the gate to meet his now ex-teacher but current fiancee. They embrace and the movie ends on a happy note.

I should also mention that Lillian Gish's grandmother character is highly supportive of this relationship.

There's a wiki fandom page for the movie that features the original CBS promo:

https://made-for-tv-movie.fandom.com/wiki/Thin_Ice?file=Thin_Ice_1981_CBS_Tuesday_Night_Movies_Promo

We had a similar situation occur in my high school (about 40(!) years ago, now), when an 18 year old girl started dating a teacher, who was just a year or two out of college (so 22-24).  There was no law against such liaisons at that time, and the school district had no policies against it either.  There were a few chaotic school board meetings, with student protests in support of the teacher.  To add to the Peyton Place-like atmosphere, one of the girl's parents was also a teacher in the district, and was not happy about the situation (and commented publicly on it at board meetings).

They ended up married a year or two later, and had children.  Believe they divorced some years down the road.  And the school board adopted policies against such things shortly after this incident (and I believe there are now laws against it as well, even for college age students).

 

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2 minutes ago, txfilmfan said:

We had a similar situation occur in my high school (about 40(!) years ago, now), when an 18 year old girl started dating a teacher, who was just a year or two out of college (so 22-24).  There was no law against such liaisons at that time, and the school district had no policies against it either.  There were a few chaotic school board meetings, with student protests in support of the teacher.  To add to the Peyton Place-like atmosphere, one of the girl's parents was also a teacher in the district, and was not happy about the situation (and commented publicly on it at board meetings).

They ended up married a year or two later, and had children.  Believe they divorced some years down the road.  And the school board adopted policies against such things shortly after this incident (and I believe there are now laws against it as well, even for college age students).

Yes, times have changed.

I forgot to mention a slight subplot in the TV movie I described. One of the teachers on staff, a woman, is supposedly the best friend of Kate Jackson's character. But when Jackson gets put on suspension, this causes a rift between them because the friend won't testify at the board on Jackson's behalf, fearing it will jeopardize her own standing with the board. 

Of course, this teacher friend happens to be the one who overhears the board later at the cafe, making negative remarks. And she magically has a change of heart and phones Jackson's lawyer to say she will now provide evidence to support his client.

It's all very contrived...and of course, the school board and the boy's mother are meant to be the villains of the piece.

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I recall many years ago, my ex(not the ex yet) wife and I talking about this sort of thing.  I mentioned there were a couple women teachers at the high school( we both attended the same high school, graduating in the same class)  that I wouldn't have minded getting it on with.  She said it wasn't fair since she couldn't recall ANY man teacher at that school worth hopping into the sack with.  :D  Well,  to my delight, 12 years after graduation, ONE of those teachers(of the couple I mentioned) transferred to my kid's school and became my older daughter's fifth grade teacher!  B)

Sepiatone

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Well I married a teacher from my High School who was never MY teacher, but actually got to know him through his first wife, who graduated a few years before me. When she left him, he latched onto me. As an older person, I trusted he knew what he was doing & became wife #2.

He was a baffoon and after I left found he had called all my girlfriends looking for a date.  Some people are just lazy opportunists and will take whatever wanders their way.

When I was in my early 40's and asked out by men in their early 20's, I wondered how my ex-husband could even be attracted to someone that much younger. Thankfully, I was mature enough at that point to discourage younger guys from pursuing the Wild Sue. 

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TikiSoo:  Older doesn't mean wiser.  My late paternal grandmother used to say that to my Dad.  She and my Dad's father got divorced after my Dad lost his older sister but she loved him until the day he died.  He remarried a younger, non-Jewish woman; but the result was that my Dad got a younger sister and I have a terrific Aunt.  Now, my sort of niece (my nasty adopted sister's daughter, who is not so great herself) got divorced after only a year and married a rebound guy who has an ego bigger than many actors, a certain U.S. President, etc. He is ten years older than she is, hates Jews (even though he claims to be half-Jewish) and convinced my niece to leave a job at a doctor's office (I was so proud of her then for pursuing a degree after never being one to stick post-HS education out) to join his vanity business.  He evidently has money, which both my "sister" and she like.  I never met someone I wanted to marry (plus, I am ugly).

As far as younger guys, Whoopie Goldberg long ago made a remark about having little to talk about with them.  As for your experience with a High School teacher, watch In and Out (Matt Dillon was Joan Cusack's student).  It is also very funny and attacks stereotypes people have of gay individuals.

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