Every source I've found says this caricature (the gent in profile you see sitting at the table) is of Don Ameche, but I say it's supposed to be George Brent. What say you?

[speedracer5]

1 hour ago, LornaHansonForbes said:

back when my hair was getting loooong in Quarantine (I made it to about eight inches!, I would have considered a snood, a hairnet, even a lacy mantilla to keep that **** out of my way.

Lol. My hair person was closed until about April,when she reopened and we had to wear masks in her waiting area. My hair grows really fast and thick (it get it cut about every 8 weeks) and it looked like a big block when I finally got it cut. 

[LuckyDan]

10 minutes ago, Dargo said:

Another couple of reasons I don't buy that it's Litvak here Dan is that first, I don't think it's ever been completely established that the hatcheck girl is actually supposed to have been drawn by the cartoonists to be Paulette Goddard. I think this right here is something that has been speciously ascribed to this cartoon character over the years. I believe the hatcheck girl's image and persona were really meant to represent any cute young working girl to be found in such a job at the time, and that her voice which mimics a strong Brooklyn accent and supplied by vocal artist Sara Berner was to make it seem exactly that. And not to mention the thought as to why the cartoonists would portray an establish star such as Goodard as a mere hatcheck girl in the first place.

Secondly, I also don't think the Termite Terrace boys would have purposedly had the gentleman in question here turn his head so the audience could see who he was supposed to be IF it were supposed to be Litvak, as Litvak's visage would have been completely unrecognizable to the public and as were almost all movie directors who worked behind the camera back then.

And I also don't believe the Termite Terrace boys would have added Litvak as any sort of "inside joke". Nope, I think their use of their W-B animation dept. bosses Binder's and Schlesinger's  visages were the only inside jokes they included in this short.

(...nope, I still think those boys were attempting to caricature one Mr. George Brent there)

The hat check girl is most likely a hat check girl.

Litvak's face was not well known to the public, no, but his name would have been recognized as Russian. And who was the most well-known Russian in 1940? Uh huh. 

Uncle Joe.

The artists very clevery drew Stalin's likeness as a stand in for the Russian lothario Litvak, then confirm our SUSPICION with Cary going on about THE AWFUL TRUTH landing on THE FRONT PAGE, all leading to the final frame and the line "I'm a bad boy."

Let's not be naive. I think what is going on is quite obvious.

 

[Dargo]

11 minutes ago, LuckyDan said:

The hat check girl is most likely a hat check girl.

Litvak's face was not well known to the public, no, but his name would have been recognized as Russian. And who was the most well-known Russian in 1940? Uh huh. 

Uncle Joe.

The artists very clevery drew Stalin's likeness as a stand in for the Russian lothario Litvak, then confirm our SUSPICION with Cary going on about THE AWFUL TRUTH landing on THE FRONT PAGE, all leading to the final frame and the line "I'm a bad boy."

Let's not be naive. I think what is going on is quite obvious.

 

 

LOL

But...but...Uncle Joe's flavor-saver/cookie-duster/woom-broom was WAY more bushy than ANY of those men you see in this cartoon, DUDE! Nope, they all had those little pencil thin numbers that were all the rage at the time, and like our man in question here does.

(...well, except as I recall for C. Aubrey Smith's, anyway)  

[Movie Collector OH]

24 minutes ago, LuckyDan said:

For you Cugat die hards, I'm not sure if any of you have mentioned a good argument for his being the mystery diner. He was a caricaturist himself, so it's possible Avery's caricature artist included a drawing of him as a hat tip. 

I did come across that, but I didn't want to go off on a tangent.  Maybe a chihuahua in his hand would suffice?? 

[speedracer5]

Dargo, this thread is amazing, thank you for creating it. 

[Dargo]

3 minutes ago, speedracer5 said:

Dargo, this thread is amazing, thank you for creating it. 

Thanks, speedy!

Yeah, it is kind of a fun one, isn't it.

Saaaay, maybe I should start MORE threads around here than I do, EH?! 

(...attention all: please remember to blame speedy here if I do) 

LOL

[LuckyDan]

12 minutes ago, MovieCollectorOH said:

I did come across that, but I didn't want to go off on a tangent.  Maybe a chihuahua in his hand would suffice?? 

It's not a tangent. It's the best argument for including Cugat. 

[Movie Collector OH]

3 minutes ago, LuckyDan said:

It's not a tangent. It's the best argument for including Cugat. 

As per my first post - it is a step beyond my eyes telling me "that is supposed to be him".

[LuckyDan]

9 minutes ago, MovieCollectorOH said:

As per my first post - it is a step beyond my eyes telling me "that is supposed to be him".

We'll never know. None of us are going to get confirmation. It is odd that such prominent placement would be given to an obscure name. If we rule out inside jokes and friends of the animators, we really are left with only Ameche and Brent. 

I don't know. 

[Swithin]

This is posted in the IMDB summary:

"A tour of Ciro's Nightclub packed with caricatures of many top stars, including (in order) Cary Grant, Greta Garbo, Edward G. Robinson and Ann Sheridan, Johnny Weissmuller, James Cagney, Humphrey Bogart and George Raft, Harpo Marx, Clark Gable, Bing Crosby, Leopold Stokowski, James Stewart and Dorothy Lamour, Tyrone Power and Sonja Henie, The Frankenstein Monster, Larry Fine, Moe Howard, Curly Howard, Oliver Hardy, Cesar Romero, Mickey Rooney, Judy Garland and Lewis Stone, Kay Kyser, Peter Lorre, Henry Fonda, J. Edgar Hoover, Ned Sparks, Jerry Colonna, and Groucho Marx; many more just get sight gags, such as Claudette Colbert, Norma Shearer, William Powell, Don Ameche, Wallace Beery, C. Aubrey Smith, Boris Karloff, Arthur Treacher, Buster Keaton and Mischa Auer."

 

 

[TomJH]

4 hours ago, scsu1975 said:

Thank you, Rich, for your HIGHLY SCIENTIFIC poll.

And I see that of the names most frequently mentioned the poll has Xavier Cugat WELL AHEAD.

Very interesting.

[Dargo]

1 hour ago, Swithin said:

This is posted in the IMDB summary:

"A tour of Ciro's Nightclub packed with caricatures of many top stars, including (in order) Cary Grant, Greta Garbo, Edward G. Robinson and Ann Sheridan, Johnny Weissmuller, James Cagney, Humphrey Bogart and George Raft, Harpo Marx, Clark Gable, Bing Crosby, Leopold Stokowski, James Stewart and Dorothy Lamour, Tyrone Power and Sonja Henie, The Frankenstein Monster, Larry Fine, Moe Howard, Curly Howard, Oliver Hardy, Cesar Romero, Mickey Rooney, Judy Garland and Lewis Stone, Kay Kyser, Peter Lorre, Henry Fonda, J. Edgar Hoover, Ned Sparks, Jerry Colonna, and Groucho Marx; many more just get sight gags, such as Claudette Colbert, Norma Shearer, William Powell, Don Ameche, Wallace Beery, C. Aubrey Smith, Boris Karloff, Arthur Treacher, Buster Keaton and Mischa Auer."

 

 

Yes, but this is the very point of my thread here, Swithin. That in essence, WHOEVER this was, and I'm sure NOT someone associated in the least with the making of this cartoon short nor affilitated with the Warner Brothers animation department at all either in the past or the present, was INcorrect with their identification of Ameche as the seated movie star who turns to profile himself during the opening sequence. AND that whoever this person was who posited this just might have assumed it to be so primarily because of a point someone earlier made in this thread...the idea of this caricatured actor's proximity to that of an old co-star of his, Claudette Colbert.

(...nope, still say the boy or boys at Termite Terrace intended their drawing to be that of George Brent, and primarily because it obviously looks a heck of lot more like HIM and who I might add was ALSO a big W-B contracted movie star in 1941, than it looks like Don Ameche)

[Swithin]

2 minutes ago, Dargo said:

Yes, but this is the very point of my thread here, Swithin. That in essence, WHOEVER this was, and I'm sure NOT someone associated in the least with the making of this cartoon short nor affilitated with the Warner Brothers animation department at all either in the past or the present, was INcorrect with their identification of Ameche as the seated movie star who turns to profile himself during the opening sequence. AND that whoever this person was, just might have assumed it to be so primarily because of a point someone earlier made in this thread...the idea of this caricatured actor's proximity to that of an old co-star of his, Claudette Colbert.

(...nope, still say the boy or boys at Termite Terrace intended their drawing to be that of George Brent, and primarily because it obviously looks a heck of lot more like HIM and who was ALSO a big W-B contracted movie star in 1941 I might add, than it looks like Don Ameche)

I was surprised that a Warner Brothers cartoon would have focused so much on MGM stars. Although many WB stars were included, many were not.

[Dargo]

1 minute ago, Swithin said:

I was surprised that a Warner Brothers cartoon would have focused so much on MGM stars. Although many WB stars were included, many were not.

Yep, and not only MGM stars but also quite a few Fox stars too, and such as Tyrone Power and his dancing partner Sonja Henie. 

[Dargo]

And btw, Cesar Romero, who's seen dancing with Rita Hayworth (not that good a caricature of her I'd say) was also contracted to Fox during this time.

(...and with Rita being contracted to Columbia Pictures)

[EricJ]

18 minutes ago, Dargo said:

And btw, Cesar Romero, who's seen dancing with Rita Hayworth (not that good a caricature of her I'd say) was also contracted to Fox during this time.

(...and with Rita being contracted to Columbia Pictures)

Like the Three Stooges at Columbia.

(And Frankenstein at Universal.  And Groucho at Paramount, unless he was with MGM by the time the cartoon came out.)

[LuckyDan]

23 minutes ago, Dargo said:

And btw, Cesar Romero, who's seen dancing with Rita Hayworth (not that good a caricature of her I'd say) was also contracted to Fox during this time.

(...and with Rita being contracted to Columbia Pictures)

I doubt that's meant to be Rita. Looks more like Ginger. 

 

[Swithin]

58 minutes ago, Dargo said:

Yep, and not only MGM stars but also quite a few Fox stars too, and such as Tyrone Power and his dancing partner Sonja Henie. 

If you pause the film (as you may have done) before the mystery man turns, from his left profile, seen only briefly, he does look more like Ameche than Brent.

[Dargo]

2 minutes ago, LuckyDan said:

I doubt that's meant to be Rita. Looks more like Ginger. 

 

I agree with ya Dan that this doesn't look much like Hayworth other than her hair color of red, and even though in the Wiki page for this cartoon short (or at least once again whoever offered up their take of this cartoon short anyway) has identified her as being Hayworth. Excerpted here:

• Cesar Romero dances with Rita Hayworth; considered to be two of the era's best big-screen dancers, they dance clumsily and spastically and Hayworth's gown is tattered at the bottom from being continuously stepped on.

However, if it WERE supposed to be Ginger Rogers, then wouldn't she have been drawn as a blonde?

(...I think so)

[Dargo]

2 minutes ago, Swithin said:

If you pause the film (as you may have done) before the mystery man turns, from his left profile, seen only briefly, he does look more like Ameche than Brent.

Have just now done what you've suggested here Swithin, but sorry, I'm not seein' that here. 

(...left or right profile, he still looks like ol' tubby butt Georgie to me)

[LuckyDan]

35 minutes ago, Dargo said:

I agree with ya Dan that this doesn't look much like Hayworth other than her hair color of red, and even though in the Wiki page for this cartoon short (or at least once again whoever offered up their take of this cartoon short anyway) has identified her as being Hayworth. Excerpted here:

• Cesar Romero dances with Rita Hayworth; considered to be two of the era's best big-screen dancers, they dance clumsily and spastically and Hayworth's gown is tattered at the bottom from being continuously stepped on.

However, if it WERE supposed to be Ginger Rogers, then wouldn't she have been drawn as a blonde?

(...I think so)

Well hell, if you're cool with whatever wiki says, then Claudette is sitting with Ameche.

Here is Ginger in 1941. 

I haven't looked up when hair dye was invented or if there are any known instances of it's use in the motion picture industry but I'm going to roll the dice on this one.

And doesn't Ginger resemble Paulette Goddard there? Hmmm. 

Edit: I'm not sure that pre-war audiences or studios considered Rita one of "the era's best big screen dancers." The wiki writer is making a broad assumption there. 

[LuckyDan]

20 minutes ago, Swithin said:

If you pause the film (as you may have done) before the mystery man turns, from his left profile, seen only briefly, he does look more like Ameche than Brent.

If you just watch the frames pass by, the way this film was meant to be enjoyed, it looks like Ameche, too. 

[Swithin]

25 minutes ago, Dargo said:

Have just now done what you've suggested here Swithin, but sorry, I'm not seein' that here. 

(...left or right profile, he still looks like ol' tubby butt Georgie to me)

I once told a friend of mine -- a great classic film buff -- that he reminded me of George Brent. I meant it as a great compliment, but he was offended.

[EricJ]

6 hours ago, Dargo said:

I agree with ya Dan that this doesn't look much like Hayworth other than her hair color of red, and even though in the Wiki page for this cartoon short (or at least once again whoever offered up their take of this cartoon short anyway) has identified her as being Hayworth. Excerpted here:

• Cesar Romero dances with Rita Hayworth; considered to be two of the era's best big-screen dancers, they dance clumsily and spastically and Hayworth's gown is tattered at the bottom from being continuously stepped on.

However, if it WERE supposed to be Ginger Rogers, then wouldn't she have been drawn as a blonde?

Despite her name, I can't imagine a redhaired Ginger Rogers either.

Had to Google who was "the Oomph Girl" again, that Edward G. Robinson greets...Anne Sheridan?  ("Oomph, oomph, oomph-oomph-oomph, OOMPH!")

[TikiSoo]

8 hours ago, Swithin said:

I once told a friend of mine -- a great classic film buff -- that he reminded me of George Brent. I meant it as a great compliment, but he was offended.

On this message board, that "compliment" would insinuate the person has a big caboose. (one of the earliest, long running threads)