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What Is God?

God is the mind of the Spirit. Everything is of the Spirit, including God.

As to the opinion of "without God man is left to take responsibility for his own actions and that is not such a bad thing", without God there is no good or bad thing and there is no responsibility.

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1 hour ago, 37kitties said:

As to the opinion of "without God man is left to take responsibility for his own actions and that is not such a bad thing", without God there is no good or bad thing and there is no responsibility.

Any morality that is centered upon what an invisible deity approves and disapproves of is already entirely arbitrary. The dumbest thing Dostoyevsky ever said was "without God everything is permitted."

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12 minutes ago, Sukhov said:

Any morality that is centered upon what an invisible deity approves and disapproves of is already entirely arbitrary. The dumbest thing Dostoyevsky ever said was "without God everything is permitted."

Everything is permitted.

Unless something or someone stops it from happening.

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Actually, the Jehovah Witnesses use to come to all the Jewish houses in my neighborhood.  They were usually dressed in their Sunday best but didn't live in my neighborhood.  I asked them why they don't vote (Jews are known for exercising our right to vote) and they say that their Lord has a plan.  So I blamed them for our last President.  Now the other day someone sent me a letter re: their being some sort of Christian religion but I'm not - that was like these people pretending to be my new neighbors but asking what I felt about the devil infiltrating my Neighborhood.  Closed the door on them.

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I had an Aunt and cousin who were witnesses.  My cousin eventually did manage to get her husband into it.  A peculiar bunch for sure.  When said Aunt and cousin were killed in a traffic accident, my Mother less than a year later tried communicating with the widower and my cousin's little girl, who was eight at the time.  By then the widower husband had gotten with another lady of the witnesses and was told that to marry her he had to beak all ties with his late wife's family, as we weren't in the flock(or whatever they call themselves).  PENTECOSTALS too, can seem a peculiar denomination.

Sepiatone

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1 hour ago, chaya bat woof woof said:

Actually, the Jehovah Witnesses use to come to all the Jewish houses in my neighborhood.  They were usually dressed in their Sunday best but didn't live in my neighborhood.  I asked them why they don't vote (Jews are known for exercising our right to vote) and they say that their Lord has a plan.  So I blamed them for our last President.  Now the other day someone sent me a letter re: their being some sort of Christian religion but I'm not - that was like these people pretending to be my new neighbors but asking what I felt about the devil infiltrating my Neighborhood.  Closed the door on them.

Back during the 1970's, my brother was at his friends house where his mother is a born again Christian.  Someone knocked at the door and the daughter answered it, her mom said who was it...said the Jehovah Witnesses.  A loud scream rang out. :lol: 

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17 hours ago, hamradio said:

Then prove they have feelings (true emotions) not referring to natural reflex reaction to stimuli.

Now if an animal has the concept of such then try begging to a tiger or shark not to eat you because it hurts.

Do something silly in front of a dog and see if it laughs.

This is why man really don't understand INSTINCTIVE nature, when ones beloved pet turns on them without warning or provocation.  A chimp raised since infancy by man  suddenly tears someones face off! If said chimp has the concept of feelings / emotions then it wouldn't do such knowing it is inflicting pain to someone that has done nothing to it.

I've noticed proof of it with my own two dogs( and others over the years)

Ever notice a dog wagging it's tail and appear anxious and eager to meet you when you return from anywhere?    One time I recall...

There was a time my wife and I went to a store for something and forgot we left Megan( our younger Shih-Tzu) outside in the backyard.  It was winter.  When we returned home and went in the house we still didn't notice her absence.  But an hour later it finally dawned on me!  "Oh, CRIPES!  Megan is still OUTSIDE!"  So I hurried to the door leading out to our backyard  deck which was  in our bedroom, and at which she was waiting to be let in.  She came in, trotting quickly past me with what looked like a **** look on her face,  refused my offer of a treat, and had nothing to do with me or my wife for the rest of the night.  But she got over it eventually.  During trips to a vet, she'd move in close and had to have her head touch any part of me to feel safe.  And her apparent joy at seeing me when I'd pick her up from the groomer.  You just have to know how to look for it.  Not even HUMANS display emotions and feelings the same as many other humans.  

And what do tigers and sharks have to do with anything?  If a deer or any other animal people hunt found a way to beg for their lives, do you think those hunters, who ARE human, wouldn't pull the triggers?   And BTW----

I've seen some people act silly in front of their pet dogs and then saw those dogs join them in the silliness with what I SWEAR looks like a smile on their faces!  

Sepiatone

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9 minutes ago, hamradio said:

Back during the 1970's, my brother was at his friends house where his mother is a born again Christian.  Someone knocked at the door and the daughter answered it, her mom said who was it...said the Jehovah Witnesses.  A loud scream rang out. :lol: 

Scream, huh? Good thing it wasn't scientologists.

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The "unmoved mover" or "prime mover" is a concept that originates with Aristotle. As far as arguments for divinity go it is one of the strongest but there are important points to be raised. Bogie raised a good one that you can not be sure if the prime mover is even sentient or if it even a "being" of any kind as we know the idea. Also what if there are multiple prime movers that created the universe? Which one is given dominance and attention? 

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2 hours ago, Sepiatone said:

I've noticed proof of it with my own two dogs( and others over the years)

Ever notice a dog wagging it's tail and appear anxious and eager to meet you when you return from anywhere?    One time I recall...

There was a time my wife and I went to a store for something and forgot we left Megan( our younger Shih-Tzu) outside in the backyard.  It was winter.  When we returned home and went in the house we still didn't notice her absence.  But an hour later it finally dawned on me!  "Oh, CRIPES!  Megan is still OUTSIDE!"  So I hurried to the door leading out to our backyard  deck which was  in our bedroom, and at which she was waiting to be let in.  She came in, trotting quickly past me with what looked like a **** look on her face,  refused my offer of a treat, and had nothing to do with me or my wife for the rest of the night.  But she got over it eventually.  During trips to a vet, she'd move in close and had to have her head touch any part of me to feel safe.  And her apparent joy at seeing me when I'd pick her up from the groomer.  You just have to know how to look for it.  Not even HUMANS display emotions and feelings the same as many other humans.  

And what do tigers and sharks have to do with anything?  If a deer or any other animal people hunt found a way to beg for their lives, do you think those hunters, who ARE human, wouldn't pull the triggers?   And BTW----

I've seen some people act silly in front of their pet dogs and then saw those dogs join them in the silliness with what I SWEAR looks like a smile on their faces!  

Sepiatone

Again a dog's tail wagging is simple instinctive behavior, it comes in different forms for visual communication.

https://www.doghealth.com/behavior/how-and-why/2401-what-your-dogs-tail-can-tell-you

 

Some breeds of dogs has their jaw design in such a way, it appears to be smiling.

It can slightly change in anger.

german-shepard-canine-unit-laying-in-fro

 

The one one the left looks so serious.

dobermanpinschersf4.jpg

 

So does this means this dog is always sad and pouty?

0bac158d306bc10fc76ba7cba44c0d75.jpg

;)

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47 minutes ago, Sukhov said:

The "unmoved mover" or "prime mover" is a concept that originates with Aristotle. As far as arguments for divinity go it is one of the strongest but there are important points to be raised. Bogie raised a good one that you can not be sure if the prime mover is even sentient or if it even a "being" of any kind as we know the idea. Also what if there are multiple prime movers that created the universe? Which one is given dominance and attention? 

What if the prime mover that created the universe was a peanut butter cup?

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3 minutes ago, 37kitties said:

What if the prime mover that created the universe was a peanut butter cup?

If that was the case, life would always be sweet. ;)

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5 hours ago, 37kitties said:

What if the prime mover that created the universe was a peanut butter cup?

Things would be no different here on planet Earth.

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11 hours ago, Bogie56 said:

Things would be no different here on planet Earth.

Of course not. What's done is done.

What difference does it make how the prime mover to which Sukhov refers  is existant? 

It has created what it has created.

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51 minutes ago, 37kitties said:

Of course not. What's done is done.

What difference does it make how the prime mover to which Sukhov refers  is existant? 

It has created what it has created.

and buggered off.

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20 hours ago, hamradio said:

Again a dog's tail wagging is simple instinctive behavior, it comes in different forms for visual communication.

https://www.doghealth.com/behavior/how-and-why/2401-what-your-dogs-tail-can-tell-you

 

Some breeds of dogs has their jaw design in such a way, it appears to be smiling.

It can slightly change in anger.

german-shepard-canine-unit-laying-in-fro

 

The one one the left looks so serious.

dobermanpinschersf4.jpg

;)

It could be the one on the left WAS serious.

And the police dog was seeing something that made him (or her) happy.  ;) 

And  your link provided info that supports my view.  Here's a quote from it---

"The position of a dog's tail can communicate information about what that dog is thinking and feeling."

"Thinking"?  "Feeling"?   Sounds like EMOTIONAL response not just "instinctive" behavior.   Otherwise you're suggesting that even in Humans anything seen as emotional response to something is just "simple instinctive behavior".   And there's no such thing as love, devotion, passion or desire.  They're all "misinterpreted" instinctive behaviors.   :rolleyes:

Sepiatone

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On 7/25/2021 at 10:41 AM, Sukhov said:

Any morality that is centered upon what an invisible deity approves and disapproves of is already entirely arbitrary. The dumbest thing Dostoyevsky ever said was "without God everything is permitted."

then shouldnt we have stopped ourselves from building and stockpiling thermonuclear ICBMs?...but we didnt.

just where does the criteria lay for us not permitting ourselves from doing certain terrible things?

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46 minutes ago, Sepiatone said:

It could be the one on the left WAS serious.

And the police dog was seeing something that made him (or her) happy.  ;) 

And  your link provided info that supports my view.  Here's a quote from it---

"The position of a dog's tail can communicate information about what that dog is thinking and feeling."

"Thinking"?  "Feeling"?   Sounds like EMOTIONAL response not just "instinctive" behavior.   Otherwise you're suggesting that even in Humans anything seen as emotional response to something is just "simple instinctive behavior".   And there's no such thing as love, devotion, passion or desire.  They're all "misinterpreted" instinctive behaviors.   :rolleyes:

Sepiatone

All animals has to "think" that is function on some level or couldn't exist. There are the same receptors as in humans to respond to heat, cold, pain, etc.  I'm referring to self awareness, the one's ability to perceive it's own morality.  

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2 hours ago, hamradio said:

All animals has to "think" that is function on some level or couldn't exist. There are the same receptors as in humans to respond to heat, cold, pain, etc.  I'm referring to self awareness, the one's ability to perceive it's own morality.  

Animals do have morality though it is one very alien to humans. Animals probably wonder why humans don't follow their morality or ethics.

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Wasn't it your own St Francis of Assisi who said he could speak to animals and convert them to the Christian faith? How was he converting them if they have no souls?

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2 hours ago, Sukhov said:

Wasn't it your own St Francis of Assisi who said he could speak to animals and convert them to the Christian faith? How was he converting them if they have no souls?

He's  Catholic, I'm not. Wonder if he converted mice and rats as well? :wacko:

Will never be rid of them for everlasting not to mention snakes and bats. :P

jamie-and-twyla.jpg

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