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22 hours ago, 37kitties said:

Without God, fleeting has no meaning. Eternity is a trillion, trillion, trillion years long and keeps going from there.

Everything is fleeting against that.

I don't see God making any difference here whatsoever.

Are you a believer in an afterlife?

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5 hours ago, Bogie56 said:

I don't see God making any difference here whatsoever.

Are you a believer in an afterlife?

My only "belief" is that God is the mind of the Spirit and that the cosmos and every soul created was projected from That mind.

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18 hours ago, Sukhov said:

I don't think the Bible or Apocrypha say anything on the subject. Saint Francis of Assisi was said to be able to "preach to his friends, the birds" which implies to me that the official Catholic doctrine is that animals do have souls.

Some studies of Matthew 25:40  believe that SHEEP will get into heaven, but goats won't.   But many forms of spirituality have both differences and many similarities.  And there's some who would question the possibility and purpose of any deity that would create all life and grant only one form of life the possession of a soul that would get them into Heaven and  leave other life He created with what is essentially  a meaningless existence.   Say(getting back to dogs),  an animal that gives unconditional love, loyalty and devotion and  indefatigable companionship. Doesn't seem fair somehow, given what God is expected to be by some people.

Sepiatone

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3 minutes ago, Sepiatone said:

Some studies of Matthew 25:40  believe that SHEEP will get into heaven, but goats won't.   But many forms of spirituality have both differences and many similarities.  And there's some who would question the possibility and purpose of any deity that would create all life and grant only one form of life the possession of a soul that would get them into Heaven and  leave other life He created with what is essentially  a meaningless existence.   Say(getting back to dogs),  an animal that gives unconditional love, loyalty and devotion and  indefatigable companionship. Doesn't seem fair somehow, given what God is expected to be by some people.

Sepiatone

Except dogs weren't created with those qualities.  They were bred to be that way...

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I remember there is a part where Jesus casts two demons into a herd of pigs and they all rush off of the top of a cliff. I don't think it was ever specified whether the pigs had a soul or what happened to them if they did.

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4 hours ago, txfilmfan said:

Except dogs weren't created with those qualities.  They were bred to be that way...

Neither were humans created with any qualities. They had to learn them all.

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5 hours ago, Sepiatone said:

Some studies of Matthew 25:40  believe that SHEEP will get into heaven, but goats won't.   But many forms of spirituality have both differences and many similarities.  And there's some who would question the possibility and purpose of any deity that would create all life and grant only one form of life the possession of a soul that would get them into Heaven and  leave other life He created with what is essentially  a meaningless existence.   Say(getting back to dogs),  an animal that gives unconditional love, loyalty and devotion and  indefatigable companionship. Doesn't seem fair somehow, given what God is expected to be by some people.

Sepiatone

Noah told me all of the critters on the ark get into heaven.

 

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18 hours ago, Sukhov said:

Neither were humans created with any qualities. They had to learn them all.

And I'd contend that none of those qualities could be taught or "bred" into any animal that lacked the potential for them in the first place.  We all know that pit bulls weren't "bred" to be vicious and dangerous.  Each individual pit bull had to be taught that behavior.  I have family members who have pits.  Being raised as house pets, they all have complacent and typical house pet mannerisms.   It just doesn't keep em from being UG-LEEEEEEE!  :blink:

16 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

Noah told me all of the critters on the ark get into heaven.

 

All the ones that didn't get eaten probably.  And I don't mean by Noah and family.  ;)   And probably the eaten ones made it too.  :) 

Sepiatone

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So how were birds taught to build a nest?

be4ca3d66e38d60210f080da9b6cb87a.jpg

63755797-beautiful-bird-male-of-olive-ba

 

The biggest flaw in evolution, how did birds convey to the next  generation how to make a better one?  Can't be done at the genetic level - oops bottom of nest fell out, tell jr how to correct mistake.

Do birds attend school taking the class "Nest Building 101"? 

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20 minutes ago, hamradio said:

So how were birds taught to build a nest?

be4ca3d66e38d60210f080da9b6cb87a.jpg

63755797-beautiful-bird-male-of-olive-ba

 

The biggest flaw in evolution, how did birds convey to the next  generation how to make a better one?  Can't be done at the genetic level.

Do birds attend school taking the class "Nest Building 101"? 

So what are you implying?   That some "god" taught them?  

 

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12 minutes ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

So what are you implying?   That some "god" taught them?  

 

Still can't answer the most fundamental question, how did the first cell came to be - the most complex thing in the known universe? Take away even the smallest element, will cease to function! Can man build one from SCRATCH!?

 

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I remember at the time the first jurassic park movie came out, merv griffin had a whole panel of celebs on talking about the possibility of finding a mosquito in amber who during its lifetime bit on a whole buncha dinosaurs thus preserving all their DNA info and hypothetically cloning them back into existence but the panel left out the most important factor...

it cannot be done.. we were all told when we were kids the dinosaurs all died out 65 million years ago so there are none left to procure cells from.

therefore scientists would have to make by some means a living dinosaur cell in order to supposedly clone one.

HOW? such a method is unknown. to be able to do such a thing human science would first have to know how to create living organic matter from non-living organic matter WHICH WE AT PRESENT DO NOT HAVE THE CAPACITY TO DO.

living from non-living, life from lifenessness. it is a prerequisite for any process for cloning extinct dinosaurs back to life, (except in the imagination)

without it jurassic park is total baloney.

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yes it is true. the movements of the planets in our own solar system are so precise scientists use the movements to set our great atomic clocks by.....

in nature order does not come from chaos.

:D

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6 minutes ago, NipkowDisc said:

yes it is true. the movements of the planets in our own solar system are so precise scientists use the movements to set our great atomic clocks by.....

in nature order does not come from chaos.

:D

Not quite.  The motion of the planets and rotation of the earth used to define time.  No longer.  Atomic clocks'  timekeeping mechanism is based on changes in energy levels of electrons, and establishes TAI (International Atomic Time).

TAI is more accurate than civil time.  The variability of Earth's rotation is why we have to add leap seconds occasionally to our clocks.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leap_second

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3 hours ago, hamradio said:

Still can't answer the most fundamental question, how did the first cell came to be - the most complex thing in the known universe? Take away even the smallest element, will cease to function! Can man build one from SCRATCH!?

 

Because man cannot "BUILD" a bird or a mouse or a cell means nothing whatsoever.  It certainly doesn't point to the finger of God.

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5 hours ago, NipkowDisc said:

yes it is true. the movements of the planets in our own solar system are so precise scientists use the movements to set our great atomic clocks by.....

in nature order does not come from chaos.

:D

The heavens were once used for keeping track of time / calendar  but movements / orbits are not precise.  National Institute of Standards and Technology. (NIST) is the standard for setting time down to the 1 sec per billion year and  leap second.

The time scale is the calculated average time of an ensemble of master clocks, themselves calibrated by the NIST-F1 and NIST-F2 cesium fountain atomic clocks. The signals are broadcasted by shortwave and uplinked to satellites.  The leap second is so important, it's needed to keep the GPS accurate, just a second off can throw the system off by miles believe it or not.

Time accuracy is about to get MORE precise.

https://news.mit.edu/2020/atomic-clock-time-precise-1216

 

The Heathkit Most Accurate Clock uses the data broadcasted by NIST via WWV where I use the 10 MHZ frequency.  I must adjust for distance traveled from the transmitter in Fort Collin, CO to my antenna by means of dip switches.  At time of capture verification and Hi spec LED is updated, the tenths of seconds is 99.9% accurate outside the 1 second per billion year the Cesium clocks are rated.

LEGH2Xeg9AlVl1yydUMeA2S0gXqSJ4H0inBSepFc

 

You can hear the data as a low per second 100 Hz "thump" . The top of the minute 1000 Hz tone is used to start capture by the Heathkit which must be verified (or data is dumped and process started over) The woman talking in the background is WWVH Hawaii, guy is lucky to hear both!  For this rare event, the leap second insertion will appear as 23:59:60.0

 

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5 hours ago, NipkowDisc said:

I remember at the time the first jurassic park movie came out, merv griffin had a whole panel of celebs on talking about the possibility of finding a mosquito in amber who during its lifetime bit on a whole buncha dinosaurs thus preserving all their DNA info and hypothetically cloning them back into existence but the panel left out the most important factor...

it cannot be done.. we were all told when we were kids the dinosaurs all died out 65 million years ago so there are none left to procure cells from.

therefore scientists would have to make by some means a living dinosaur cell in order to supposedly clone one.

HOW? such a method is unknown. to be able to do such a thing human science would first have to know how to create living organic matter from non-living organic matter WHICH WE AT PRESENT DO NOT HAVE THE CAPACITY TO DO.

living from non-living, life from lifenessness. it is a prerequisite for any process for cloning extinct dinosaurs back to life, (except in the imagination)

without it jurassic park is total baloney.

There is a slim hope of bringing back the Woolly Mammoth because specimens have been found frozen in permafrost with a lot of DNA intact.  Not that much different from a modern day elephant - actually a mammoth is an elephant adapted to the arctic regions. Man made them extinct!  

It's improbable but not impossible that such a thing could be done in the future in regard to dinosaurs judging how science is advancing - one can only imagine what future breakthroughs may happen.

Maybe we should listen to the advise of wisdom from Ian Malcolm in "Jurassic Park" mirroring the moral lesson from Mary Shelley's "Frankenstein",  in that the most pressing and obvious message is that science and technology can go too far!!

 

 

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3 hours ago, hamradio said:

The heavens were once used for keeping track of time / calendar  but movements / orbits are not precise.  National Institute of Standards and Technology. (NIST) is the standard for setting time down to the 1 sec per billion year and  leap second.

The time scale is the calculated average time of an ensemble of master clocks, themselves calibrated by the NIST-F1 and NIST-F2 cesium fountain atomic clocks. The signals are broadcasted by shortwave and uplinked to satellites.  The leap second is so important, it's needed to keep the GPS accurate, just a second off can throw the system off by miles believe it or not.

Time accuracy is about to get MORE precise.

https://news.mit.edu/2020/atomic-clock-time-precise-1216

 

The Heathkit Most Accurate Clock uses the data broadcasted by NIST via WWV where I use the 10 MHZ frequency.  I must adjust for distance traveled from the transmitter in Fort Collin, CO to my antenna by means of dip switches.  At time of capture verification and Hi spec LED is updated, the tenths of seconds is 99.9% accurate outside the 1 second per billion year the Cesium clocks are rated.

LEGH2Xeg9AlVl1yydUMeA2S0gXqSJ4H0inBSepFc

 

You can hear the data as a low per second 100 Hz "thump" . The top of the minute 1000 Hz tone is used to start capture by the Heathkit which must be verified (or data is dumped and process started over) The woman talking in the background is WWVH Hawaii, guy is lucky to hear both!  For this rare event, the leap second insertion will appear as 23:59:60.0

 

How does that compare with using an IRIG receiver?

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3 hours ago, txfilmfan said:

 

 

How does that compare with using an IRIG receiver?

Satellite clocks below are neat, using GPS for the time but I like to get time data straight from the source.

57_5266af0a-e443-476d-b39f-94c38718f359_

2407.png?n=63574918904000

ES-295GN.jpg

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22 hours ago, NipkowDisc said:

yes it is true. the movements of the planets in our own solar system are so precise scientists use the movements to set our great atomic clocks by.....

in nature order does not come from chaos.

:D

Really?  Then how were all the planets formed?  All at once?  Or by debris resulting in the chaotic "big bang".  And if so, take into account all the celestial bodies taking spherical form.  which would mean order coming from chaos.  Look.....

Judging by the number of spiritual beliefs that exist, (As Mark Twain once said, "Man is the only animal with the TRUE RELIGION.     HUNDREDS of them!")  It could very well be that man created God, if only to make him more easily accept his own mortality.  And despite what Marx proclaimed, if religion helps mankind treat each other respectfully, then what's the harm?  Many different people have their own collective or individual spiritual beliefs or sense of spirituality.  And as just earlier stated, for the reason of accepting their own and loved one's mortality.   

My Grandmother once claimed a belief that when there's the appearance of a recently or long departed loved one in a dream, that it's their way of visiting you.  I always thought that was  a comforting type of belief, true or not, but over time have had occasions that compelled me to believe that might actually be true.  I might even relate them later.  But surprising,  Shortly after my wife died, the lady next door asked me if I had any visits yet.  :blink:  Seems she too, has the same belief.  I've never discussed such things with her before, and she couldn't exactly recall just where she was made aware of that concept.    Actually though,

Anyone can believe what they wish.  Nobody can really be sure of the truth, but can have faith.  Eventually, we'll ALL come to know what's true or not.  ;) 

NOTE:

Time is a peculiar thing.  An invention by man as for centuries the only concept of time was the passing of the sun overhead and the changing of seasons.  No one could claim for sure what was "early" or "late".  Just routine.  "We'll eat when our shadows are shorter"  Or longer.  Different for everybody.  Arguing which 21st century electronic devices offer "true" accuracy of time is foolhardy.  But we've allowed ourselves to become enslaved by man made time constraints and devices that presume to measure and dictate the length and shortness of periods of existence, so it's no good arguing about it.  

Sepiatone

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8 minutes ago, Sepiatone said:

Really?  Then how were all the planets formed?  All at once?  Or by debris resulting in the chaotic "big bang".  And if so, take into account all the celestial bodies taking spherical form.  which would mean order coming from chaos.  Look.....

Judging by the number of spiritual beliefs that exist, (As Mark Twain once said, "Man is the only animal with the TRUE RELIGION.     HUNDREDS of them!")  It could very well be that man created God, if only to make him more easily accept his own mortality.  And despite what Marx proclaimed, if religion helps mankind treat each other respectfully, then what's the harm?  Many different people have their own collective or individual spiritual beliefs or sense of spirituality.  And as just earlier stated, for the reason of accepting their own and loved one's mortality.   

My Grandmother once claimed a belief that when there's the appearance of a recently or long departed loved one in a dream, that it's their way of visiting you.  I always thought that was  a comforting type of belief, true or not, but over time have had occasions that compelled me to believe that might actually be true.  I might even relate them later.  But surprising,  Shortly after my wife died, the lady next door asked me if I had any visits yet.  :blink:  Seems she too, has the same belief.  I've never discussed such things with her before, and she couldn't exactly recall just where she was made aware of that concept.    Actually though,

Anyone can believe what they wish.  Nobody can really be sure of the truth, but can have faith.  Eventually, we'll ALL come to know what's true or not.  ;) 

NOTE:

Time is a peculiar thing.  An invention by man as for centuries the only concept of time was the passing of the sun overhead and the changing of seasons.  No one could claim for sure what was "early" or "late".  Just routine.  "We'll eat when our shadows are shorter"  Or longer.  Different for everybody.  Arguing which 21st century electronic devices offer "true" accuracy of time is foolhardy.  But we've allowed ourselves to become enslaved by man made time constraints and devices that presume to measure and dictate the length and shortness of periods of existence, so it's no good arguing about it.  

Sepiatone

It's necessary to have accurate clocks when you're controlling spacecraft moving at 5 to 10 miles a second.  It's not necessary when you're trying decide what time to eat lunch.

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And is that 5 to 10 miles according to whom, and a second according to whom or what?  And is anyone sure that it's the planets that dictate these "time" constraints, or man that determines these allotted increments?  

Sepiatone

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9 minutes ago, Sepiatone said:

And is that 5 to 10 miles according to whom, and a second according to whom or what?  And is anyone sure that it's the planets that dictate these "time" constraints, or man that determines these allotted increments?  

Sepiatone

No argument that all measurement systems and units are inventions, and in the case of time, it was first conveniently chosen based on the rotation of the earth per day which was then somewhat arbitrarily divided into 24 hours, and then 86400 seconds (due to the sexagesimal (base 60) system used by the Babylonians and Sumerians).   There's nothing inherent in nature that is a "second of time" that I'm aware of.   It's just something that was chosen.  We could have easily opted for a decimal time system (which the French tried in the 18th century).   They divided a day into 10 hours, an hour into 100 minutes and a minute into 100 seconds, so that a day consisted of 100,000 seconds.

But now defined and used, accurately measuring time is important in at least the application I listed above.

 

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