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Dependable and underrated


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1 hour ago, Herman Bricks said:

TopBilled to your original point, one that I would nominate is Wayne Morris.

See the source image

Nice pick here, Herman!

Once one learns the details of his much too short life, it becomes especially amazing how well this highly decorated WWII fighter pilot veteran was able to portray the cowardly soldier in Kubrick's Paths of Glory, doesn't it.

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10 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

Isn't it an inference that others are clueless? 

That's not my definition of it. Maybe you have another sort of dictionary.

Incidentally I refrained from scrutinizing your choice of Olivia de Havilland because I am a fan and don't want to denigrate her. But I don't think someone who earned two major Oscars would exactly be underrated, at least not by her peers in the motion picture industry.

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39 minutes ago, TopBilled said:

That's not my definition of it. Maybe you have another sort of dictionary.

Incidentally I refrained from scrutinizing your choice of Olivia de Havilland because I am a fan and don't want to denigrate her. But I don't think someone who earned two major Oscars would exactly be underrated, at least not by her peers in the motion picture industry.

De Havilland was "underrated" by those that had a voted for that AFI poll.    I assumed you knew I was a big fan of Olivia (my #3 favorite actress).

If I had a vote in that AFI poll,   I would have placed her in the top 10.    

As for how one defines "underrated":    well isn't the basis when one uses this term,  that they are saying:  I believe this person (actor,  director, musician,  musical group, artist, etc..),  should be more well known based on their talent (or artistic legacy),   than I assumes they are,  by XYZ.    (I say XYZ since I don't know if that person means "underrated" by the general public,  their peers,   those that vote for awards,  etc....

E.g.   I could see a useful use of "underrated" as it relates to TCM programmers;   They don't show this actor enough because they don't value their contribution to the film industry as much as I feel that actor deserves.   

To me this type of usage is meaningful,  since it list the two criteria I'm looking for;   Who is responsible for underrating someone (TCM programmers), and the measure of why someone is underrated (TCM doesn't show their films enough).

Anyhow I'm sincerely interested in how you define "underrated".

 

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27 minutes ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

De Havilland was "underrated" by those that had a voted for that AFI poll.    I assumed you knew I was a big fan of Olivia (my #3 favorite actress).

If I had a vote in that AFI poll,   I would have placed her in the top 10.    

As for how one defines "underrated":    well isn't the basis when one uses this term,  that they are saying:  I believe this person (actor,  director, musician,  musical group, artist, etc..),  should be more well known based on their talent (or artistic legacy),   than I assumes they are,  by XYZ.    (I say XYZ since I don't know if that person means "underrated" by the general public,  their peers,   those that vote for awards,  etc....

E.g.   I could see a useful use of "underrated" as it relates to TCM programmers;   They don't show this actor enough because they don't value their contribution to the film industry as much as I feel that actor deserves.   

To me this type of usage is meaningful,  since it list the two criteria I'm looking for;   Who is responsible for underrating someone (TCM programmers), and the measure of why someone is underrated (TCM doesn't show their films enough).

Anyhow I'm sincerely interested in how you define "underrated".

 

I try not to look at how TCM promotes household names. Because if one does that, then all the male stars are underrated compared to Clark Gable and Cary Grant and all the female stars are underrated compared to Bette Davis and Katharine Hepburn. 

Herman mentioned Wayne Morris a while ago. Now in that case, Morris was a WB contract player and many of his films are in TCM's library. They could do all sorts of tributes for him, but they don't, because for some reason, TCM doesn't rate him as highly as Clark Gable and Cary Grant. So yes, he's probably underrated by TCM's programmers.

Personally, when I say someone is underrated, it is not because I am saying other people don't think highly of person X. I feel they are underrated because historically there is a lack of discussion about some of these people on various movie websites.

I guess if a performer had children or grandchildren, those subsequent generations can help keep the stars' legacies alive (which is what Lucie Arnaz does re: her mother). But Craig Stevens & Alexis Smith, two fine actors, did not have children and no biographies have been written about them. Who is going to celebrate their achievements? 

screen

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Hey TB! Here's a suggestion for ya!

Go up there to your thread title and change it to somethin' like say: "Little remembered actors and actresses who could always be counted on to give any movie they were in that little extra spark or who could steal any scene they were in."

(...SUUUURE, that's a real long title for a thread alright, BUT to be honest with ya here, I'm not so sure I want to sit through another discussion around here about what constitutes someone being "underrated"...AND ya know, sometimes the concept of "Brevity" came be way "OVERrated", and perhaps exhibited by what's goin' on RIGHT NOW in your thread here!)

LOL

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7 minutes ago, Dargo said:

Hey TB! Here's a suggestion for ya!

Go up there to your thread title and change it to somethin' like say: "Little remembered actors and actresses who could always be counted on to give any movie they were in that little extra spark or who could steal any scene they were in."

(...SUUUURE, that's a real long title for a thread alright, BUT to be honest with ya here, I'm not so sure I want to sit through another discussion around here about what constitutes someone being "underrated"!)

LOL

I think your issue may be with james who wanted to know what 'underrated' means to people.

The title of this thread is fine as it is.

:) 

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28 minutes ago, TopBilled said:

I think your issue may be with james who wanted to know what 'underrated' means to people.

The title of this thread is fine as it is.

:) 

A good point. 

Still though, wouldn't ya say "little remembered" might be a more exact descriptor for the actors and actresses of whom your thread's intent for being appears to be? At least this was the impression I had of it from the first, anyway. I didn't think you were attempting to draw out the names of the big stars here, and thus why I earlier had offered up the names of Connie Gilchrist, Kathreen Freeman and Virginia Gregg for consideration.

(...but hey, it's your thread)

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4 minutes ago, Dargo said:

A good point. 

Still though, wouldn't ya say "little remembered" might be a more exact descriptor for the actors and actresses of whom your thread's intent for being appears to be?

(...jus' sayin')

I don't have a problem with that phrase. But sometimes it is more than just memory, it has to do with how a performer's work may be overlooked, undervalued or under appreciated.

Recently I've been watching episodes of Barnaby Jones and it surprises me how effective Buddy Ebsen is in his scenes. After reading an interview that Lee Meriwether gave, I can see how kind and gracious he is to his costars and guest stars. I had underrated him previously because I just took him for granted on that show.

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14 minutes ago, TopBilled said:

I don't have a problem with that phrase. But sometimes it is more than just memory, it has to do with how a performer's work may be overlooked, undervalued or under appreciated.

Recently I've been watching episodes of Barnaby Jones and it surprises me how effective Buddy Ebsen is in his scenes. After reading an interview that Lee Meriwether gave, I can see how kind and gracious he is to his costars and guest stars. I had underrated him previously because I just took him for granted on that show.

Oooh..."overlooked, undervalued or under-appreciated"! Now THERE I think are the BEST descriptors you could have used in your thread's title.

Yes, even better than my "little remembered" one.

(...SEE?!...now if ya would've used any of THOSE, then James probably wouldn't have gotten on his whole "I question your use of the word 'underrated' here, Sir" thing again!)  ;)

LOL

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16 hours ago, Dargo said:

Oooh..."overlooked, undervalued or under-appreciated"! Now THERE I think are the BEST descriptors you could have used in your thread's title.

Yes, even better than my "little remembered" one.

(...SEE?!...now if ya would've used any of THOSE, then James probably wouldn't have gotten on his whole "I question your use of the word 'underrated' here, Sir" thing again!)  ;)

LOL

The title is fine;  I.e.  I don't see much of a  difference between underrated,  undervalued,  etc...

All still assume the POV of others.        I.e.  WHO are those that are undervaluing someone?        But hey,   I find this thread interesting and fun in that it provides insight in the views of forum members about actors they really appreciate or value,    that "others" may not to the same degree.

Related to this,  my new year resolution was to not assume who "they are" when someone uses the term "they".        I did this because I found out that my view of who "they are" were often a lot different than the view of the person say "they"  (or "them").        I do understand that my questions about "who are they" can be annoying! 

 

 

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I'm never sorry to see Joe Pantoliano in a movie, no matter how small the part.

As a personality that's always fun to watch (in anything), he defines dependable.

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Just now, Allhallowsday said:

Honorable killer, sees justice cop, always solid and a delight...

330px-Joseph-Calleia-1942.jpg

Oh yes!   Joseph's crowing achievement in my book -- TOUCH OF EVIL

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8 minutes ago, Bronxgirl48 said:

Oh yes!   Joseph's crowing achievement in my book -- TOUCH OF EVIL

I saw the end of THE CONSPIRATORS (1944) today, which of course has JOSEPH CALLEIA as a reliably neutral Portuguese cop with a bent towards good... which made me think of him in GILDA... and of course FIVE CAME BACK... a very honorable killer... and once in awhile he played a rat... reliably!  He's a favorite, I admire him like I admire J. CARROL NAISH

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Here are  some  more  dependable  and  underrated  stars.   Brian  Keith   Richard  Conte  Louis  Calhern   Patric  Knowles  Maureen  O'Sullivan  Jane  Greer  Celeste  Holm  Mercedes  McCambridge

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8 minutes ago, cinemaman said:

Here are  some  more  dependable  and  underrated  stars.   Brian  Keith   Richard  Conte  Louis  Calhern   Patric  Knowles  Maureen  O'Sullivan  Jane  Greer  Celeste  Holm  Mercedes  McCambridge

Excellent group. Recently I watched the Columbia noir TIGHT SPOT (1955) and Brian Keith had very good chemistry with Ginger Rogers.

He also worked well with Maureen O'Hara in the three pictures they made together.

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16 hours ago, cinemaman said:

Here are  some  more  dependable  and  underrated  stars.   Brian  Keith   Richard  Conte  Louis  Calhern   Patric  Knowles  Maureen  O'Sullivan  Jane  Greer  Celeste  Holm  Mercedes  McCambridge

A worthy group!   Especially Louis Calhern!

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Here  is  list  of  foreign  stars  who  are  dependable  and  underrated.   Michele  Morgan    Lilli  Palmer     Susannah  York    Wendy  Hiller    Yves  Montand      Rossano  Brazzi     Curt Jurgens  Hardy  Kruger

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