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Please Go Get Vaccinated for COVID-19


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31 minutes ago, Eucalpytus P. Millstone said:

Unfamiliar with the phrase "cull the herd." So I looked it up.

Your friend's first name wouldn't happen to be Adolf, would it, Swithin?

"Thinning the herd" is the phrase with which I am familiar. I don't have a problem with that solution (of reducing the "surplus population," to echo Ciggy).

I find it amusingly ironic (or ironically amusing) that folks who get all so all-fired, het up about Climate Change-Global Warming also seem to be the same folks who nag/whine/scold/lecture about "Anti-Vaxxers." Seems to me the two issues are related. Overpopulation is causing climate change.

Now Mother Nature (or Man himself, if you believe some conspiracy theorists) has imposed a solution to the problem of Global Warming.

. . . and some folks are fighting back -- obstinately putting Human Welfare over Global Welfare.

Some might call their obstinacy . . . selfishness.

Eugenics isn't Going to Get Us Out of this Mess

Actually, my friend's comment (he's from Arkansas and his name isn't Adolf) derives from the fact that the anti-vaxxers are making their own decisions; my friend is just enjoying it. The tedious thing about anti-vaxxers, for me, is when they end up in the hospital whining that they should have got the vaccine and urge others not to make the same mistake. I understand why the media feels obliged to show such clips, but it's boring.

Obviously, I have compassion for these people. I'm not one who says don't take care of them because they brought it on themselves. I think they should get the best of care. But don't make media figures out of them. 

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Just now, Swithin said:

The tedious thing about anti-vaxxers, for me, is when they end up in the hospital whining that they should have got the vaccine and urge others not to make the same mistake.

You are presuming that all "Anti-Vaxxers" are willfully and rebelliously unvaccinated. Not so.

Regarding the truly willful unvaccinated, I'm inclined to agree with your attitude. I feel the same way about folks who join the military, law enforcement . . . and now healthcare -- anyone who consciously and deliberately puts himself or herself in harm's way:

Hey, you "made your bed"! Now lie in it!

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14 minutes ago, misswonderly3 said:

 It is jaw-droppingly ridiculous  and inappropriate to compare those who say  "ok,  let the unvaccinated make their choice, they are free to catch the virus and die "   to Adolph Hitler.   Also profoundly disrespectful to  Jewish people.

It shouldn't have to be explained that there's a huge difference between  just shrugging one's shoulders and saying,  "If someone chooses to remain unvaccinated,  they also choose to suffer the consequences,  and that could include getting the covid  virus and dying"    and the vile  "final solution" plan Hitler and the National  Socialists made to deliberately imprison and kill as many Jewish people as possible.  It's an insult to all who suffered  from Hitler's actions to even talk about this comparison, it's so obviously not similar in any way shape or form.

But, just to spell it out for someone as stubborn as you appear to be:   There's the matter of choice.   If an individual chooses to NOT GET  the covid 19 vaccine, they are also making the choice that they may get the virus and die from it.  Their choice.

The human beings Hitler rounded up and murdered had NO CHOICE.   They were systematically slaughtered.     

Huge difference.

Well, the word "eugenics," used in the PubMed.gov abstract to which I linked, is a provocative term, rightly or wrongly associated with Nazism.

You're "preaching to the choir" regarding "the matter of choice" concerning COVID-19 vaccination. I'm all FOR personal choice and also for accepting the consequences of one's personal choice.

My kick is with folks -- many of who are participants in this discussion -- who don't want everyone to have a personal choice to not get vaccinated . . . who want to punish those who don't "follow orders."

. . . an attitude that smacks of fascism, IMO.

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9 minutes ago, Eucalpytus P. Millstone said:

You are presuming that all "Anti-Vaxxers" are willfully and rebelliously unvaccinated. Not so.

Regarding the truly willful unvaccinated, I'm inclined to agree with your attitude. I feel the same way about folks who join the military, law enforcement . . . and now healthcare -- anyone who consciously and deliberately puts himself or herself in harm's way:

Hey, you "made your bed"! Now lie in it!

People who take on tough jobs understand the challenges and dangers. People who don't get vaccinated often deny the dangers, or consider them to be fictional.

There are exceptions, but the political connection is undeniable. In our fair City of New York, the borough with the biggest Covid problem at present is Staten Island, the only borough that votes Republican. The zip code with the highest 7-day positive percent level of Covid (Annadale-Rossville/6.65%)  is pretty much the zip code with the highest percent number of votes for Trump. My Manhattan zip code, which voted heavily for Biden, has a 7-day positive percent level of 1.71%.

 

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58 minutes ago, Swithin said:

Actually, my friend's comment (he's from Arkansas and his name isn't Adolf) derives from the fact that the anti-vaxxers are making their own decisions; my friend is just enjoying it. The tedious thing about anti-vaxxers, for me, is when they end up in the hospital whining that they should have got the vaccine and urge others not to make the same mistake. I understand why the media feels obliged to show such clips, but it's boring.

Obviously, I have compassion for these people. I'm not one who says don't take care of them because they brought it on themselves. I think they should get the best of care. But don't make media figures out of them. 

They probably don't have coverage and we end up paying for it.

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David Frum
 
@davidfrum
· Jul 28
No, the real GOP message will be: give us control over Congress so we can over-rule private businesses and local governments to empower a tiny minority of people who define their freedom as the right to harm others. twitter.com/DCLongIslander…
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19 minutes ago, Bogie56 said:
David Frum
 
@davidfrum
· Jul 28
No, the real GOP message will be: give us control over Congress so we can over-rule private businesses and local governments to empower a tiny minority of people who define their freedom as the right to harm others. twitter.com/DCLongIslander…

This is a good summary of the hypocrisy of some (if not many),  GOP politicians.      Instead of their traditional support of businesses these pols are now more concerned with the culture wars:   E.g. not allowing a private business to mandate masks or being vaccinated.     Instead of their traditional support for local government they instead wish to mandate what local governments can do.  

 

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1 hour ago, Swithin said:

People who take on tough jobs understand the challenges and dangers. People who don't get vaccinated often deny the dangers, or consider them to be fictional.

My rebuttal is the consequences of putting oneself in danger* -- whether consciously or delusionally -- is a personal choice . . . which may be informed or uniformed. How an observer reacts and responds to those consequences is also a personal choice . . . and reflection on the observer:

He was a "hero." I like him. Let us mourn and praise and honor him.

He was a "fool." I don't like him. He deserved to die. Good riddance!

In an ideal world, selective compassion would not exist.

But, ours is not an ideal world.

* And not everyone who takes on "tough jobs" does so with honorable, noble, and altruistic intentions. Some do so for a thrill. Some do so because they crave hero worship. Some do so for power. The worst do so because it's the only way that they can indulge in otherwise criminal behaviors (shooting/killing someone) legally and be safe from condemnation and prosecution.

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1 hour ago, Eucalpytus P. Millstone said:

* And not everyone who takes on "tough jobs" does so with honorable, noble, and altruistic intentions. Some do so for a thrill. Some do so because they crave hero worship. Some do so for power. The worst do so because it's the only way that they can indulge in otherwise criminal behaviors (shooting/killing someone) legally and be safe from condemnation and prosecution.

I was in the results group in my Ethics class in college, rather than the motivations group. We had to read a lot of Kant, who wrote that the motive is more important than the result. I disagree. I think, if the results are good, it doesn't matter so much what the motivation was. If you save a child from a fire because you want to be a hero, that's fine, the result's the thing!

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46 minutes ago, Swithin said:

I was in the results group in my Ethics class in college, rather than the motivations group. We had to read a lot of Kant, who wrote that the motive is more important than the result. I disagree. I think, if the results are good, it doesn't matter so much what the motivation was. If you save a child from a fire because you want to be a hero, that's fine, the result's the thing!

Yeah but, when you save a child from a fire, the result is immediate.

Regarding COVID-19 vaccination, I want to see long-term results. I shall never be convinced by immediate results.

"Immanuel Kant was a real ****-ant who was very rarely stable." -- Monty Python*

* There's more than one way to thwart the TCM censor!

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2 hours ago, Eucalpytus P. Millstone said:

Yeah but, when you save a child from a fire, the result is immediate.

Regarding COVID-19 vaccination, I want to see long-term results. I shall never be convinced by immediate results.

"Immanuel Kant was a real ****-ant who was very rarely stable." -- Monty Python*

 one way to thwart the TCM censor!

It suddenly dawned on me (I'm embarrassed at how slow I am!) that you are at least one other poster as well. Probably more than one. 

Joanne-Woodward-The-Three-Faces-of-Eve.j

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12 minutes ago, Swithin said:

It suddenly dawned on me (I'm embarrassed at how slow I am!) that you are at least one other poster as well. Probably more than one.

You are the second TCM Forum member to think that I am someone else.

Nope! I have only one TCM Forum identity, and this is it.

Believe it or don't!

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2 hours ago, Eucalpytus P. Millstone said:

Yeah but, when you save a child from a fire, the result is immediate.

Regarding COVID-19 vaccination, I want to see long-term results. I shall never be convinced by immediate results.

"Immanuel Kant was a real ****-ant who was very rarely stable." -- Monty Python*

* There's more than one way to thwart the TCM censor!

The word filter is  automatic saving the mods time and effort, let's see how long the Youtube clip survives.

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Well, my apologies to all posters. My intent was to simply encourage people to get vaccinated so we can get back to a more normal life (whatever that is). I certainly didn't mean to start a firestorm.   To quote Rodney King  "People,  I just want to say, can we all get along? Can we get along?" I guess for some the 2021 answer is no. 

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42 minutes ago, Hoganman1 said:

Well, my apologies to all posters. My intent was to simply encourage people to get vaccinated so we can get back to a more normal life (whatever that is). I certainly didn't mean to start a firestorm.   To quote Rodney King  "People,  I just want to say, can we all get along? Can we get along?" I guess for some the 2021 answer is no. 

No apology necessary, as far as I'm concerned.

No, we can't all just get along. Doesn't bug me. People are too "hopelessly," frustratingly, maddeningly, wonderfully, and marvelously complex and individualistic. Variety and diversity are good things, IMO. A world in which everyone thought the same, believed the same, behaved the same would be not only a very dull world indeed . . .

. . . but my idea of Hell!

Politics is always a hot-button, divisive topic -- that offers lively, very stimulating, entertaining, and educational discussion! I, for one, immensely appreciate the TCM Forum caretakers and admins providing the Off-Topic Chit-Chat salon. To them, I say thank you for your forebearance and generosity!

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16 minutes ago, Hoganman1 said:

Well, my apologies to all posters. My intent was to simply encourage people to get vaccinated so we can get back to a more normal life (whatever that is). I certainly didn't mean to start a firestorm.   To quote Rodney King  "People,  I just want to say, can we all get along? Can we get along?" I guess for some the 2021 answer is no. 

 

Be nice if mankind could embrace  that idea.

Youngbloods_Get_Together.jpg

 

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2 hours ago, Swithin said:

It suddenly dawned on me (I'm embarrassed at how slow I am!) that you are at least one other poster as well. Probably more than one. 

Joanne-Woodward-The-Three-Faces-of-Eve.j

" The Three Faces of Eve " is good movie. But I like

The Man of a Thousand Faces" even better. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

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"By the time of the COVID-19 pandemic, we had already been working for years on vaccines for infectious diseases, including on other coronaviruses and their spike proteins. As part of our mRNA technology platform, we had also already developed an mRNA delivery system that was specifically designed for vaccines.

Once the COVID-19 pandemic struck, we were well positioned to adapt our existing mRNA technology to try to address the global public health crisis. We worked closely with the NIH and other government and non-government partners to design and implement a robust COVID-19 vaccine clinical trial program that prioritized safety. Our speed in developing the Moderna COVID-19 vaccine was ultimately a product of our many years of research and investment in mRNA vaccines."

________________________________________________________________________________________

This was a statement from Moderna. Moderna understood that it was not a matter of IF but WHEN there would be a pandemic. Vaccines have been in the works for the last 10 years. Testing for safety had been done for years. 

Your excuse of waiting for enough data for safety of the vaccine is just an excuse. It has been proven that Covid kills, and proven the vaccine saves lives. Your excuses are just that, Learn the facts since you claim to be so interested in getting data.

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QcgK2k4V_normal.jpg
 
 
My son heard a joke in a comedy club last week: To vaccine refusers who say, "I'm doing my research," the comedian answered: "Oh, you've booked time in the lab? Going to work with beakers and electron microscopes?"
Quote Tweet
 
 
OriqUSkv_mini.jpg
 
Nick Baumann
 
@NickBaumann
· Jul 28
This is an amazing anecdote: https://bit.ly/3fpvL3h
Show this thread
 
 
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Sorry to come late to the "party" but as I understand it, Nipkow doesn't leave the house. In his case being unvaccinated doesn't effect the general population.

Back in the early 2000's I was dating the #2 person in our County's Health Department. He was already on alert & prepared for a worldwide pandemic, saying it was immanent. Earlier epidemics like AIDS/SARS were more successfully contained, but everyone in the CDC knew a virus would develop where everyone's susceptible.

I am fully vaccinated & an elementary school teacher. I wear a mask all day because my students are not vaccinated. No vaccine is 100% effective in preventing you from contracting a virus, it just lessens the chances of contracting & dying from it. So wearing a mask brings the chances down even further.

Kids are careless; they don't stay apart, nor keep their masks on securely-they're just not mature enough to understand. Sad to see adults living at "second grade" level.

People don't like being told what to do-especially those used to having everything their way all the time. Not getting the vaccine is a call out of small, self-centered thinking....not looking at the world as a whole.

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This sort of breaks down  individualism versus collectivism.  Die hard people whom wants government to stay out of their affairs period, don't want to be told what to do aka individualism and those whom wants to work more together for their belief of the common good aka  collectivism..

 

You’re Not the Boss of Me! Why We Don’t Like Being Told What to Do

https://health.clevelandclinic.org/why-we-dont-like-being-told-what-to-do/

Some anti vaxxers won't get the shots just to prove a point whether if the outcome kills them or not.

 

 

By the way what ever became of the poster whom keeps repeating here on the board "stop telling me what to do?" constantly? :wacko:

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4 hours ago, lavenderblue19 said:

"By the time of the COVID-19 pandemic, we had already been working for years on vaccines for infectious diseases, including on other coronaviruses and their spike proteins. As part of our mRNA technology platform, we had also already developed an mRNA delivery system that was specifically designed for vaccines.

Once the COVID-19 pandemic struck, we were well positioned to adapt our existing mRNA technology to try to address the global public health crisis. We worked closely with the NIH and other government and non-government partners to design and implement a robust COVID-19 vaccine clinical trial program that prioritized safety. Our speed in developing the Moderna COVID-19 vaccine was ultimately a product of our many years of research and investment in mRNA vaccines."

________________________________________________________________________________________

This was a statement from Moderna. Moderna understood that it was not a matter of IF but WHEN there would be a pandemic. Vaccines have been in the works for the last 10 years. Testing for safety had been done for years. 

Your excuse of waiting for enough data for safety of the vaccine is just an excuse. It has been proven that Covid kills, and proven the vaccine saves lives. Your excuses are just that, Learn the facts since you claim to be so interested in getting data.

lavendarblue19,

You a Moderna employee? Stockholder?

A pharmaceutical company hyping its product. Imagine that! Wow! I didn't see that coming! Who'd a thunk it?

Yo, lb19! Didn't you petulantly snap that you were "Done" with responding to me? I hate it when people go back on their word.

I honestly don't know what the point of your retort is. To get me to change my mind? To do what you say? To be like . . . you?

Fail!

The Rap on Moderna

You Can't Sue Pfizer or Moderna

Big Pharma is Fooling Us

 

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