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Wow! Absolutely terrific post up there, BF!!!

But I must say that we sure have gotten off the subject of Alicia Malone here, haven't we.

And so allow me to now say something I've been meaning to say since I first saw this earlier posted still shot of her wearing those blue pants here...

alicia1.thumb.jpg.f18f3c3a68cd71bd3eda08

...and this being that it looks as if this image might've been artificially stretched wide or perhaps compressed from top to bottom.

And pretty much because I don't recall Alicia ever looking THIS wide in the hips (and/or overall in fact) and can't imagine ANY pair of pants making her seem this heavy.

(...that's why)

 

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24 minutes ago, Dargo said:

.and this being that it looks as if this image might've been artificially stretched wide or perhaps compressed from top to bottom.

And pretty much because I don't recall Alicia ever looking THIS wide in the hips (and/or overall in fact) and can't imagine ANY pair of pants making her seem this heavy.

Possibly, but I saw the pants "live" and was shocked at how they made her look because I'd never seen that before.  So, no I wouldn't say that it's photoshopped or anything.

At any rate, joking about someone's pants is not the same as making fun of their looks.  Pants can be changed, and thank god she did. 😃 

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I think it was during her intro to Bell, Book and Candle that the camera panned up from her

shoes to her face. The pants looked much thinner, though they still didn't look very fashionable.

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7 hours ago, Dargo said:

Wow! Absolutely terrific post up there, BF!!!

But I must say that we sure have gotten off the subject of Alicia Malone here, haven't we.

And so allow me to now say something I've been meaning to say since I first saw this earlier posted still shot of her wearing those blue pants here...

alicia1.thumb.jpg.f18f3c3a68cd71bd3eda08

...and this being that it looks as if this image might've been artificially stretched wide or perhaps compressed from top to bottom.

And pretty much because I don't recall Alicia ever looking THIS wide in the hips (and/or overall in fact) and can't imagine ANY pair of pants making her seem this heavy.

(...that's why)

 

I think her blue pants make her look simply divine.

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Alicia gives us a warning during her intro to ON AN ISLAND WITH YOU:  "Esther Williams and Cyd Charisse wear dark body make-up"

Movie starts and yep, there are the two of them, all dusky and "tropical", fighting over Ricardo Montalban.    It does seem somewhat, well, over the top, until a voice yells "Cut!" and we realize Esther and Cyd are playing actresses who are portraying native women.   

I could go on, but it gets somewhat labyrinthine, lol.

 

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To clarify (if that's possible, lol) Malone actually mentions that the reason Esther and Cyd are wearing this offensive make-up is because they are playing actresses in the movie who are portraying native island women.  So in effect Alicia is giving an explanation for the explanation, if that doesn't already give you a migraine.

Look, I like to think I'm a fairly progressive individual who can deal with the march of history and all that, but this is just going too far....

 

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1 minute ago, Bronxgirl48 said:

To clarify (if that's possible, lol) Malone actually mentions that the reason Esther and Cyd are wearing this offensive make-up is because they are playing actresses in the movie who are portraying native island women.  So in effect Alicia is giving an explanation for the explanation, if that doesn't already give you a migraine.

Look, I like to think I'm a fairly progressive individual who can deal with the march of history and all that, but this is just going too far....

 

Next Malone will be calling for a boycott of the fictional movie Esther and Cyd were native island women in.    Yea,  she has completely lost it!

 

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So, does she ever call for a boycott of classic Western genre movies in which Native Americans("Injuns" to some of you) AREN'T played by actual Native Americans?  But by white actors also wearing darker body make-up?

Or maybe a boycott of WEST SIDE STORY, in which non-Latino Natalie Wood affects a slight accent and portrays a girl of Puerto Rican  heritage?  

Or the Greek GEORGE CHAKIRIS also plays a Puerto Rican?  (THERE'S a twist.  A Greek playing a Latino while elsewhere, an actual Latino [ Anthony Quinn] portrays a GREEK in other movies!  ;) ).

Given that sort of thing done in Hollywood history, she's going to be one busy gal.  ;) 

I guess we won't also be seeing her preset any CHARLIE CHAN movies anytime soon.  :D

Sepiatone

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19 minutes ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

Next Malone will be calling for a boycott of the fictional movie Esther and Cyd were native island women in.    Yea,  she has completely lost it!

 

TCM has.

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4 minutes ago, Sepiatone said:

So, does she ever call for a boycott of classic Western genre movies in which Native Americans("Injuns" to some of you) AREN'T played by actual Native Americans?  But by white actors also wearing darker body make-up?

Or maybe a boycott of WEST SIDE STORY, in which non-Latino Natalie Wood affects a slight accent and portrays a girl of Puerto Rican  heritage?  

Or the Greek GEORGE CHAKIRIS also plays a Puerto Rican?  (THERE'S a twist.  A Greek playing a Latino while elsewhere, an actual Latino [ Anthony Quinn] portrays a GREEK in other movies!  ;) ).

Given that sort of thing done in Hollywood history, she's going to be one busy gal.  ;) 

I guess we won't also be seeing her preset any CHARLIE CHAN movies anytime soon.  :D

Sepiatone

I'm waiting for the excoriation of Jean Simmons in BLACK NARCISSUS.

You know it's coming.

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20 minutes ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

Next Malone will be calling for a boycott of the fictional movie Esther and Cyd were native island women in. 

This is oddly similar to what happened a few years ago when our school staged a production of the Leonard Bernstein opera Trouble in Tahiti (1951), for which he also wrote the words. One of the female lead's main arias is "What a Movie!", in which she describes a "terrible, awful movie" she saw called "Trouble in Tahiti"--a south-sea island romance featuring every cliché imaginable (ritual sacrifice, natives "running wild with lances and knives," a witch doctor, the U.S. Navy coming to the rescue, etc.)  As she goes on, instead of merely describing it, she becomes increasingly involved in reliving the whole thing, climaxing in the musical number "Island Magic."

Anyway, to make a long story short, there was much discomfort among many of the students with the aria's clichés about native peoples, with some of them refusing to audition for that reason--even though the whole point of the aria is that those clichés are themselves completely absurd (and of course Bernstein himself was famously progressive politically, especially for the time). It's a similar problem to some viewers today being unable to recognize Blazing Saddles as one of the most potent deconstructions of the absurdity of racism ever made (rather than as a movie with "racist stuff" in it).  Sigh.

 

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44 minutes ago, Sepiatone said:

Or maybe a boycott of WEST SIDE STORY, in which non-Latino Natalie Wood affects a slight accent and portrays a girl of Puerto Rican  heritage?  

Rita Moreno spoke at considerable length about her distaste for this in the half-hour-plus intro to the movie with Ben M. and several cast members earlier this year.

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1 hour ago, Fausterlitz said:

-even though the whole point of the aria is that those clichés are themselves completely absurd (and of course Bernstein himself was famously progressive politically, especially for the time). It's a similar problem to some viewers today being unable to recognize Blazing Saddles as one of the most potent deconstructions of the absurdity of racism ever made (rather than as a movie with "racist stuff" in it).  Sigh.

Well Fausterlitz, as that old saying goes:

"Subtleties are always lost on the Uninformed, and even when those subtleties might be presented overtly."

(...and no, I don't know who first said this, but someone most certainly MUST have said something like this at sometime in the past wouldn't ya think, and because it's SO damn true, isn't it...btw, sounds like something Oscar Wilde might have said, doesn't it)

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24 minutes ago, Dargo said:

btw, sounds like something Oscar Wilde might have said, doesn't it

It does sort of remind me of Lady Bracknell's dictum from The Importance of Being Earnest: "Ignorance is like a delicate, exotic fruit: touch it and the bloom is gone."

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I'm surprised Alicia hasn't gone off on actor J. CARROL NAISH -- who seemed to play every kind of race and/or nationality known to Man.  Bad CARROL!  He's so insensitive for playing people other than himself!

 → I shudder to think of what "Mighty Alicia" might do if J. CARROL was still alive at age 124!  Alicia would no doubt be hot on his trail at the nursing home!  She'd be out for BLOOD! 🩸 Ready to rebuke a helpless J. CARROL in front of the entire nursing staff for being an un-righteous scumbag! 

"This is a bad man you have here" she'd say "and I'm going to bring an altar into the Pixie Dust Rest Home so Mr. Naish can REPENT REPENT REPENT!  In fact, I, The Mighty Alicia, will not SLEEP until Carrol is WOKE!"

And if WARNER OLAND were still alive at age 141 (which, let's face it, that's pushin' it -- as J. CARROL is barely hanging on at 124 . . . ) I know in my Heart of Hearts, Liver of Livers and Kidney of Kidneys that Mighty Alicia would be after his A-S-S !  She'd have to give Warner a proper lecture even if she had to hold his eyelids open with /toothpicks/!  She'd teach that evil so-and-so Warner Oland what a rotter he was for playing Asian characters!  From 'The Mysterious Orient' was he?  No, he was from Sweden!   GAWD ALMIGHTY!  HELL HATH NO FURY LIKE 'ANGRY ALICIA'!  😤😡😠🤬

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J. Carrol Naish is a great example of an actor that was able to appear authentic playing all different types of characters and one that rarely played what he actual was: Irish.

E.g.  Just saw the Bogie film Sahara (1943),  and even my Italian wife asked;   if the actor playing Giuseppe,  Italian?  

This from Wiki:

Of Irish descent, he rarely played an Irishman, explaining, "When the part of an Irishman comes along, nobody ever thinks of me."[a] He portrayed numerous other ethnicities including Southern European, Eastern European, Latin American, Native American, Middle Eastern, South Asian, East Asian, Southeast Asian, Pacific Islander—even African American, which earned him the moniker "Hollywood's one-man U.N.".[3]

PS:   is Malone unaware of the studio-era and that most actors were under contract with a given studio and often receiving a weekly check regardless of if they worked or not?      Why hire an independent actor of a given ethnicity when one can just  say "hey,  Naish,   be at studio #4 at,  2:00 PM,,  see the make-up department for the character you will play!".

 

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I agree, james, about Naish in all his roles.  (well, perhaps not as the villain in that Batman serial, lol)

I find him especially authentic in STAR IN THE NIGHT where he plays an Italian-American who runs a diner.   How do I know?  Because I worked for an Italian-American owner of a famous pizza restaurant in Chicago many years ago, and J. Carroll sounded exactly like my former boss.  Not just the voice, but mannerisms and attitudes.  A remarkable performance.

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8 hours ago, Mr. Gorman said:

I'm surprised Alicia hasn't gone off on actor J. CARROL NAISH -- who seemed to play every kind of race and/or nationality known to Man.  Bad CARROL!  He's so insensitive for playing people other than himself!

 → I shudder to think of what "Mighty Alicia" might do if J. CARROL was still alive at age 124!  Alicia would no doubt be hot on his trail at the nursing home!  She'd be out for BLOOD! 🩸 Ready to rebuke a helpless J. CARROL in front of the entire nursing staff for being an un-righteous scumbag! 

"This is a bad man you have here" she'd say "and I'm going to bring an altar into the Pixie Dust Rest Home so Mr. Naish can REPENT REPENT REPENT!  In fact, I, The Mighty Alicia, will not SLEEP until Carrol is WOKE!"

And if WARNER OLAND were still alive at age 141 (which, let's face it, that's pushin' it -- as J. CARROL is barely hanging on at 124 . . . ) I know in my Heart of Hearts, Liver of Livers and Kidney of Kidneys that Mighty Alicia would be after his A-S-S !  She'd have to give Warner a proper lecture even if she had to hold his eyelids open with /toothpicks/!  She'd teach that evil so-and-so Warner Oland what a rotter he was for playing Asian characters!  From 'The Mysterious Orient' was he?  No, he was from Sweden!   GAWD ALMIGHTY!  HELL HATH NO FURY LIKE 'ANGRY ALICIA'!  😤😡😠🤬

There was a TON  of racism and racist portrayals in the history of Hollywood, and yet the vast majority of posters on these message boards seem to be way, way, WAY angrier that any TCM host reminds them this racism existed than they're angry about the racism itself. Makes me ponder whether I should continue to exist on these boards.

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On 8/6/2021 at 3:11 PM, Katie_G said:

Possibly, but I saw the pants "live" and was shocked at how they made her look because I'd never seen that before.  So, no I wouldn't say that it's photoshopped or anything.

At any rate, joking about someone's pants is not the same as making fun of their looks.  Pants can be changed, and thank god she did. 😃 

I also saw the pants "LIVE" and agree NOT a good look!

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12 hours ago, sewhite2000 said:

There was a TON  of racism and racist portrayals in the history of Hollywood, and yet the vast majority of posters on these message boards seem to be way, way, WAY angrier that any TCM host reminds them this racism existed than they're angry about the racism itself. Makes me ponder whether I should continue to exist on these boards.

If you're not joking here,  you really should leave this site.

 

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On 8/6/2021 at 2:01 PM, BingFan said:

(Emphasis added.)  I don't disagree with most of what you say.  The concept of "collective guilt" is problematic.  But in response to your last paragraph, I think it's worth noting that the living experience of slavery -- and its concrete after-effects -- isn't quite so long ago.

When I was born in the late 1950s, there were still at least a few people living who were born into slavery.  There were also many children and grandchildren of formerly enslaved people living in our world then, which continues today.  The effects of slavery on our society as a whole -- and especially on those people who had direct connections to slavery --  didn't simply disappear when Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation or when the 13th Amendment, prohibiting slavery, was added to the Constitution right after the Civil War.  

Former slaves and their descendants  in the southern US lived through a Jim Crow era that began immediately after the Civil War and stretched into the 1960s.  Laws effectively stopped them from voting and prohibited them from living in the same neighborhoods and going to the same schools with white people, among other things.  Several states had laws prohibiting interracial marriage into the 1960s.  In the northern US, there were fewer Jim Crow laws, but discrimination was still rampant.  Things like restrictive covenants kept white homeowners from selling their houses to black people.  De facto segregation made many neighborhoods and schools either all white or all black.  I experienced this myself -- I didn't live near or go to school with a single black person until I left the northern city I grew up in and went off to a more integrated college.

This kind of segregation and discrimination began immediately after slavery was abolished, to keep the races separate and to maintain one race's control over the other.  The situation didn't start to get better until the 1960s, and that process of improvement is still ongoing.

I agree that it's problematic to hold someone personally responsible for things that happened long before they were born.  But I do think we have a responsibility as a society to correct the lasting effects of slavery.  We all benefit from improving our society.

Sure.  But the point you're missing is that those people born into slavery that were still living when  you were born(and I, born in '51) weren't enslaved any more.   And according to some, if I adopted the same logic, I should either refuse to be friends with, or demand an apology or restitution from a close friend of mine, who's of German descent, because of what Germans did to the Polish in WWII.  But in his case, his family emigrated from Germany before WWI,  and he's five years my junior.   So nobody in his family was involved with any of that, and having animosity and angst with him and his family just doesn't make sense. 

But in a way it appears you seem to think I don't care what African-American's slave ancestors endured during that most regrettable period of American history.   And as commendable your last sentence is,  there's sadly too many(and sadly, in high places) that have no wish to improve our society if it means everyone gets the same level of respect and enjoy all the same rights.  THEIR idea of "improvement" is getting all of us to think and act like THEM.  Which truly isn't good for ANYBODY.

Sepiatone

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12 minutes ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

If you're not joking here,  you really should leave this site.

Yeah, I'm not sure yet. I've long ago completely bailed out of off-topic chit-chat. Don't think I will ever go there again. I do like other aspects of these boards. I'm thinking about it.

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