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Afghanistan falls to Taliban


ElCid
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I seldom agree with Ron Paul, but he is pretty accurate here.  Basically, Congress, presidents, the military, the military-industrial-political complex, the media, Americans in general, etc. are to blame.  Basically we should have gone after Bin Laden and Al Qaeda and then pulled out. 

My opinion:  destroy Al Qaeda and severely damage the Taliban, but leave them in control with a threat to return and destroy them and any other terrorists they permitted to operate from Afghanistan.

https://www.eurasiareview.com/16082021-ron-paul-kabul-has-fallen-but-dont-blame-biden-oped/

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1 hour ago, ElCid said:

I seldom agree with Ron Paul, but he is pretty accurate here.  Basically, Congress, presidents, the military, the military-industrial-political complex, the media, Americans in general, etc. are to blame.  Basically we should have gone after Bin Laden and Al Qaeda and then pulled out. 

My opinion:  destroy Al Qaeda and severely damage the Taliban, but leave them in control with a threat to return and destroy them and any other terrorists they permitted to operate from Afghanistan.

https://www.eurasiareview.com/16082021-ron-paul-kabul-has-fallen-but-dont-blame-biden-oped/

I'm confused about your "My opinion" sentence;   is this what you believe the USA should start doing?    (Or was this what the USA should have done?).      I assume the latter.

But if the former;   you're really recommending a surge?    i.e.  bringing back 30 thousand or so troops and at least another year of fighting?

 

 

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US lays out conditions for recognising a new Afghan gov’t

State Department says any new administration in Kabul must respect human rights, including rights of women.

...........

“A future Afghan government that upholds the basic rights of its people, that doesn’t harbour terrorists, and that protects the basic rights of its people, including the basic, fundamental rights of half of its population – its women and girls – that is a government that we would be able to work with,” Price said during a news briefing.

“The converse is also true – that we are not going to support a government that does not do that.”

Price said there is “decisive consensus” in the international community on the kind of new government that should be formed in Afghanistan, citing a United Nations Security Council (UNSC) statement on Monday that called for an “Afghan-led, Afghan-owned process of national reconciliation”.............

UNSC member states stressed that an end to the conflict “can only be achieved through an inclusive, just, durable and realistic political settlement that upholds human rights, including for women, children and minorities”, the statement said..........

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/8/16/us-lays-out-condition-for-recognising-a-new-afghan-govt?taid=611af17d029ed3000190e097&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A+Trending+Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

-_-

 

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US reaches deal with Taliban on evacuations: report

..........The deal was reached in talks in Doha, Qatar, between senior Taliban officials and Gen. Frank McKenzie.

The two sides apparently agreed to a "deconfliction mechanism” in which operations at the airport in Kabul are permitted to continue without interference from the Taliban.

McKenzie reportedly told the Taliban that any interference would be met with force from the U.S. military, who would move to defend the airport if necessary...........

....."But I can tell you that the general was very clear and firm in his discussions with Taliban leaders that any attack on our people or on our operations at the airport would be met swiftly with a very forceful response, and I think I'll leave it at that," Kirby added..........

 

............."Tomorrow and over the coming days, we will be transferring out of the country thousands of American citizens who have been resident in Afghanistan, as well as locally employed staff of the U.S. mission in Kabul and their families and other particularly vulnerable Afghan nationals," the Department of Defense and the State Department said in a joint statement.

"And we will accelerate the evacuation of thousands of Afghans eligible for U.S. Special Immigrant Visas, nearly 2,000 of whom have already arrived in the United States over the past two weeks." .............

https://thehill.com/policy/international/middle-east-north-africa/568003-central-command-chief-taliban-leaders-reached

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15 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

I'm confused about your "My opinion" sentence;   is this what you believe the USA should start doing?    (Or was this what the USA should have done?).      I assume the latter.

But if the former;   you're really recommending a surge?    i.e.  bringing back 30 thousand or so troops and at least another year of fighting?

 

 

That is what I recommend should have been done 20 years ago.  Maybe now we could do that as well.

As for now, the situation is much too fluid for US to do anything other than leave the country.  Then warn Taliban that US will bomb the H out of the country if they begin to support ISIS, Al Qaeda or other terrorists organizations again.

Incidentally, for the US to do something now to help get Afghanis out of Afghanistan would require that we send in about 50,000 combat troops and massive air support.  Even then, I am not sure it would help.  Not sure we could do it with no airports actually under US control and no help from nearby nations for support bases.  

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16 hours ago, mr6666 said:

US reaches deal with Taliban on evacuations: report

..........The deal was reached in talks in Doha, Qatar, between senior Taliban officials and Gen. Frank McKenzie.

The two sides apparently agreed to a "deconfliction mechanism” in which operations at the airport in Kabul are permitted to continue without interference from the Taliban.

McKenzie reportedly told the Taliban that any interference would be met with force from the U.S. military, who would move to defend the airport if necessary...........

....."But I can tell you that the general was very clear and firm in his discussions with Taliban leaders that any attack on our people or on our operations at the airport would be met swiftly with a very forceful response, and I think I'll leave it at that," Kirby added..........

 

............."Tomorrow and over the coming days, we will be transferring out of the country thousands of American citizens who have been resident in Afghanistan, as well as locally employed staff of the U.S. mission in Kabul and their families and other particularly vulnerable Afghan nationals," the Department of Defense and the State Department said in a joint statement.

"And we will accelerate the evacuation of thousands of Afghans eligible for U.S. Special Immigrant Visas, nearly 2,000 of whom have already arrived in the United States over the past two weeks." .............

https://thehill.com/policy/international/middle-east-north-africa/568003-central-command-chief-taliban-leaders-reached

Hopefully this will work, but will the Taliban honor it when thousands of Afghanis begin to leave?  Or will they take revenge on those who supported the Americans and former Afghan government?

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8 minutes ago, ElCid said:

Hopefully this will work, but will the Taliban honor it when thousands of Afghanis begin to leave?  Or will they take revenge on those who supported the Americans and former Afghan government?

whatta stupid question.  ElCid, they're islamic fundamentalist fanatics. they just took full advantage of biden's troop withdrawal, didn't they?

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Some hopeful news from the Taliban but can we believe them?

Taliban Announces 'Amnesty,' Urges Women To Join Government

https://www.npr.org/2021/08/17/1028376093/taliban-announces-amnesty-urges-women-to-join-government

 

Taliban announces ‘amnesty,’ reaches out to women

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/8/17/taliban-announces-amnesty-urges-women-to-join-government

 

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3 hours ago, ElCid said:

That is what I recommend should have been done 20 years ago.  Maybe now we could do that as well.

As for now, the situation is much too fluid for US to do anything other than leave the country.  Then warn Taliban that US will bomb the H out of the country if they begin to support ISIS, Al Qaeda or other terrorists organizations again.

Incidentally, for the US to do something now to help get Afghanis out of Afghanistan would require that we send in about 50,000 combat troops and massive air support.  Even then, I am not sure it would help.  Not sure we could do it with no airports actually under US control and no help from nearby nations for support bases.  

I'm a scholar of the French and Indian War. For England to defeat Canada which only had a population (men women and children) of 50,000, required that they cut off all supplies and reinforcements from France and required an army of 30,000 royal and provincial.  For England to have won the American Revolution ( the colonies pop was at or just over a million) would have required a commitment of 600,000 British regulars and mercenaries. 

If you really wanted to kick a$$ in Afghanistan with a pop of 38 million it would have required that the opposing forces of US, Allies and Afghans be 22 million, it was never gonna happen. Only magical thinking kept us there.

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If the Taliban wants to be left alone - don't help those in carrying out terrorist activities here like 9/11.  Hopefully they have learned that lesson.  The ball is in their court.

If other countries has problems with terrorism then let them deal with it, don't drag us into it.

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1 hour ago, NipkowDisc said:

whatta stupid question.  ElCid, they're islamic fundamentalist fanatics. they just took full advantage of biden's troop withdrawal, didn't they?

They are friends of Donald Trump.  Not only did he free 5,000 of these so-called 'fundamentalist fanatics' he told us in February 2020 that they would be taking control of the country as soon as the U.S. left.   In fact, he was counting on them to do so!

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23 minutes ago, Bogie56 said:

They are friends of Donald Trump.  Not only did he free 5,000 of these so-called 'fundamentalist fanatics' he told us in February 2020 that they would be taking control of the country as soon as the U.S. left.   In fact, he was counting on them to do so!

Two factors to consider, they are technically POW's so what's the difference with other wars we fought.  didn't we free Nazi's?

The peace deal wasn't simply 2 sided, it involved  India, Pakistan and other members of the United Nations.  President Biden kept within the time table of the 14 months from Feb 2020 for the troop withdraw.

https://www.republicworld.com/world-news/us-news/afghan-peace-deal-5000-taliban-pows-to-be-released-us-to-withdraw-i.html

 

Lets wait and see if the Taliban keeps their word about amnesty.

 

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The only thing about this that reminded me at all of Viet Nam wasn't the airlift out, but the fact(as Biden did point out) that the Afghan army had no desire to fight for themselves.  As the South Viet Nam army didn't either.  And I'm also incensed over the fact that we(the American taxpayers) spent over a trillion dollars training the Afghan "soldiers"  that fled out of sight once the taliban advanced and who also left behind the millions of dollars worth of U.S. military equipment we supplied them with and that the Taliban now has possession of.  

Sepiatone

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22 minutes ago, hamradio said:

Two factors to consider, they are technically POW's so what's the difference with other wars we fought.  didn't we free Nazi's?

The peace deal wasn't simply 2 sided, it involved  India, Pakistan and other members of the United Nations.  President Biden kept within the time table of the 14 months from Feb 2020 for the troop withdraw.

https://www.republicworld.com/world-news/us-news/afghan-peace-deal-5000-taliban-pows-to-be-released-us-to-withdraw-i.html

 

Lets wait and see if the Taliban keeps their word about amnesty.

 

Hey, I'm not the one that is sabre rattling and calling Joe Biden weak because he doan go after berserkers.  I'm merely pointing out to Nipkowdisc that it was Trump who embraced these people that he hates so much.

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2 hours ago, NipkowDisc said:

whatta stupid question.  ElCid, they're islamic fundamentalist fanatics. they just took full advantage of biden's troop withdrawal, didn't they?

Is this anything like Donald Trump’s Christian Fundamentalist Fanatics that he incited to insurrection on January 6?!?!?

Fundamentalist religious fanatics are the same dangerous intolerant zealots the world over, whatever their actual religion, here and abroad!!

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1 hour ago, Arturo said:

Is this anything like Donald Trump’s Christian Fundamentalist Fanatics that he incited to insurrection on January 6?!?!?

Fundamentalist religious fanatics are the same dangerous intolerant zealots the world over, whatever their actual religion, here and abroad!!

Exactly!!!!

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2 hours ago, Arturo said:

Is this anything like Donald Trump’s Christian Fundamentalist Fanatics that he incited to insurrection on January 6?!?!?

Fundamentalist religious fanatics are the same dangerous intolerant zealots the world over, whatever their actual religion, here and abroad!!

I've been calling them the American Taliban for some time now.  Women's rights?  Forget it, we are the religious Right.

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5 hours ago, NipkowDisc said:

whatta stupid question.  ElCid, they're islamic fundamentalist fanatics. they just took full advantage of biden's troop withdrawal, didn't they?

You mean Trump's troop withdrawal.

And don't ignore that Trump was in office for four years and he personally met with the Taliban to negotiate.

 

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Interesting article in Politico about how things sometimes work in Afghanistan's tribal society.

If one side does not put up too much resistance the other side will allow them to leave and go

home, which beats being killed. This explains, at least in part, how quickly the Afghan army

 melted away. 

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