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The. Most. Infuriating.


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On 9/1/2021 at 9:14 PM, slaytonf said:

But that's nothing.  What's really offensive about that scene comes at the end when John Prentice tells his father that he thinks of himself as a colored man, while he (John) thinks of himself as just a man. !!.  As if there was something inherently inferior about being colored!! Man, I was expecting his father to slap that sonofabit c h upside the head!  I know what would be going through my mind then. " Who the hell are you?  Who the hell are you to say that to me, you g oddamn punk? "  Like, to think of yourself with dignity as a man you have to give up your heritage.   Like you have a monopoly on self respect!

 

Whether you find it offensive or not is your own opinion. We are all entitled to one. But, this is an issue that does exist in the black community.

I can remember when a relative of mine was searching for a house to buy in the Los Angeles area. Most people they encountered assumed they would be moving to a well to do "black" neighborhood that is well known around here. He responded: "We aren't moving to a nice black neighborhood, we're moving to a nice neighborhood"

Its not so much that the son feels superior to his father. Its that his father was of a generation that was not allowed to be successful. Certainly not allowed to marry a white woman. He would be called "too big for his britches", and be told to "learn your place" or much worse !  His father couldn't relate to living in any society other than the one he had known all his life.

I see the father as merely trying to protect his son, as any good father would. But, the son was telling his father that times were changing. He was allowed to dream bigger than his father was able to. It was a major generation gap moment in cinema.

By the way:

Quote

For example, Guess Who's Coming to Dinner (1967), a movie which even when it was made had the absurd pretext of a man seeking the approval of his intended's parents.  !.

Is that really so bad ? I think this is a tradition that should return. I live in a city where 2/3 or marriages fail. Maybe having the family vet a child's fiance before matrimony could help. It certainly couldn't hurt.

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No, it's not the plot device setting us up to expect Vin's death and then offing Carol in Mrs. Miniver (1942).  Discreditable though it may be, it's still fairplay.  What I'm talking about is far more dastardly than that.  And what really makes it hurt is that it's in a movie directed by this country's best director, William Wyler, one of his best.  It's got everything you look for in a Wyler picture, the composition, the details and refinements that are hallmarks of his work.  It's entertaining to keep track of how he weaves together all the threads, themic, and visual.  The cast is wonderful to watch, too.  Greer Garson refined, elegant, a real lady.  Teresa Wright, like fine porcelain.  Even Walter Pigeon is less stodgy than usual.  There's also a solid list of supporting actors that need no mentioning, so I won't.  All this is what makes it the more infuriating.  It's wrenching for me to watch this movie, because I admire it so much, but it has this glaring. . . . I mean it is such an outrage--it upsets me just to think of it.  Oh, ah, the flaw?  Well. . . 

 

Do you know the Miniver's have a daughter?  Yeees, they do.  But you'd hardly notice it from watching the movie.  In all the movies I've seen, there has never been a character treated as shabby as she is. Her treatment is both shameful and shameless.  All the other members of the Miniver family, their servant, too, get fair treatment and characterization.  But she is left off the the side, pale and flat.  Even the cat gets more exciting business, for God's sake.  One wonders why anyone bothered to introduce her at all.  Perhaps they thought another female was necessary, for balance.  Or maybe she did originally have a bigger role, but it was consumed by the young son (I cannot bring myself to name him), that impish grommet mugging and mawking for for the camera.  His antics are only that much less provoking than the insults paid to her.  Fortunately, Wyler is competent enough to keep him from marring the picture.  This reprehensible campaign extends to such base levels as to exclude her from group portrayals of the Minivers.  Here's a still from the end of the movie, where is she?:

Untitled.png

Oh, you say, you're being unfair.  You picked one out just to prove your point.  She must be in other shots.  Well, yes, you're right, she is.  And here it is, just moments later in the movie:

Untitled.png

That's her arm there, in the lower right of the frame.

 

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13 hours ago, slaytonf said:

Do you know the Miniver's have a daughter?  Yeees, they do.  But you'd hardly notice it from watching the movie.  In all the movies I've seen, there has never been a character treated as shabby as she is. Her treatment is both shameful and shameless

I recall reading that Wyler was so impressed by Teresa Wright in her debut film The Little Foxes,   which Wyler directed,  that he expanded her role in Mrs. Miniver,  made the following year,   thus reducing to almost zero the role of the daughter.

 

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15 hours ago, sewhite2000 said:

I'm a little stunned this word can be used without autocensor kicking in.

What word oddamn?     (i.e.  words can get in by using spaces).       I have to do this anytime I wish to mention Chester Morris and Boston B l a c k i e

Anyhow,  looks like I missed something.    

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1 hour ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

What word oddamn?     (i.e.  words can get in by using spaces).       I have to do this anytime I wish to mention Chester Morris and Boston B l a c k i e

Anyhow,  looks like I missed something.    

I think the word is punk.

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1 hour ago, slaytonf said:

I think the word is punk.

I can't see a reason why any autocensor wouldn't allow punk.    While I think it is silly when I talk about Boston B l a c k i e that the second word is censored,   I do understand the so called logic of why.

  

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28 minutes ago, sewhite2000 said:

My eyesight isn't what it used to be. I didn't notice the space until your post led me to examine the other post more closely.. I'm less shocked now.

You can say god.  And you can say damn.  But you can't say ****.

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