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6 hours ago, TikiSoo said:

That's what the internet does to people-uncalled for aggression because they are anonymous. They'd never say it to your face.

I too am underwhelmed by CASABLANCA. I've seen it a few times and simply don't care for it. I dislike Ingrid Bergman's charactor especially.

I'm also not a fan of of Myrna Loy as Nora Charles. She strikes me as smug & pompous. Unpopular sentiments.

As for West Side Story '61, I only saw it once on TCM and didn't care for it.  A few years later my Movie Buddy called to ask if I wanted to go see it at the theater. Hrumph. I gave it a chance and it was WHOLLY ENJOYABLE on the big screen. Why? I don't know, but I've found that to be true with other movies I didn't care for. Seeing THE BIRDS on the big screen with an audience was far better than watching it at home alone on TV. He talked me into seeing The Giant Claw at the theater & that was especially better seen with others!

Do I have to close post with this is just "my view" or "my opinion" or is that clearly obvious?

It's obvious to me, but that's just my take. 

I'm just not a fan of Bernstein's music. He is impressive at the podium. From what I read the other night, your experience aligns with Roger Ebert's after he saw the DVD extras. He had a greater appreciation for the dancing, especially. 

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On 9/26/2021 at 10:34 PM, misswonderly3 said:

Of course you are.  Sometimes we just plain don't like something, and that's that.  Ok,  I'll back off on the point about the songs  ( but you must have ears made of cement to not like the songs,  -- ok,  ok.....)

But this is not opinion it's fact,   that something that is a deliberate retelling of a story is NOT a "rip-off".   West Side Story can't be a rip-off of Romeo and Juliet because it is an intentional allusion to the Shakespeare play, no sneakiness or plagiarism involved.

 

You are so funny,  especially in your claim that you're not passive \ aggressive.    E.g.  Ok,  I'll back off on the point about the songs  ( but you must have ears made of cement to not like the songs,  -- ok,  ok.....)

 

 

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4 hours ago, JamesJazGuitar said:

You are so funny,  especially in your claim that you're not passive \ aggressive.    E.g.  Ok,  I'll back off on the point about the songs  ( but you must have ears made of cement to not like the songs,  -- ok,  ok.....)

 

 

I think you and I have different ideas of what "passive -aggressive"  is.  "Backing off"  regarding my difficulty believing that the poster "hates" the songs in West Side Story  :  I was deliberately communicating my mixed feelings about that.  Like,  "  Ok,  you don't like the songs.  ---But wait !  How can you not like those fantastic songs?  ! ?  "    

As a musician, james,   I would think that , despite your criticism of my being "so funny"  ( and obviously you mean that not in a good way, more like   "You pretend you're not a bee-atch  but you are " )   and  yes,  we all know that   "everyone has the right to their opinion and also the right to express it blah blah "  ---- sorry,   rambling a bit there----       Anyway,  shirley,  as a musician,  you can acknowledge the fine composition of the music in West Side Story.     (  and of course it's possible to acknowledge something is of a high calibre without personally liking it.  )

I know you think I'm harsh, james,  and you rarely hesitate to tell me so.  But I kind of don't mind,  at least you don't have me on  "ignore".    

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20 hours ago, misswonderly3 said:

I think you and I have different ideas of what "passive -aggressive"  is.  "Backing off"  regarding my difficulty believing that the poster "hates" the songs in West Side Story  :  I was deliberately communicating my mixed feelings about that.  Like,  "  Ok,  you don't like the songs.  ---But wait !  How can you not like those fantastic songs?  ! ?  "    

As a musician, james,   I would think that , despite your criticism of my being "so funny"  ( and obviously you mean that not in a good way, more like   "You pretend you're not a bee-atch  but you are " )   and  yes,  we all know that   "everyone has the right to their opinion and also the right to express it blah blah "  ---- sorry,   rambling a bit there----       Anyway,  shirley,  as a musician,  you can acknowledge the fine composition of the music in West Side Story.     (  and of course it's possible to acknowledge something is of a high calibre without personally liking it.  )

I know you think I'm harsh, james,  and you rarely hesitate to tell me so.  But I kind of don't mind,  at least you don't have me on  "ignore".    

I would never put you on ignore since I enjoy your comments and insight.    But newbies may not understand your style of posting;   The user you replied to had posted only around 14 post.      Thus saying "As for the songs,  they're fantastic.  If you don't like them,  you clearly don't appreciate good song-writing.  I know this sounds personal and insulting, that's not my intention",   might come off as an insult to such a newbie,  regardless of your intention.

But don't change your style.   As Bogie said to your avatar buddy,  Joel Cario,   users will just have to take-it-and-like-it! 

(oh,  and yes,  I find that songs in WSS to be well written,  both the music and the lyrics).

 

 

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Not like the songs in West Side Story, ok, that's a new one. Never, ever in all these years have I ever read or heard anyone say that. Miss W I agree with you, the songs are " fantastic" The songs and the music are well loved standards for 60 years. I'd say they were brilliant.

As far as the poster disliking Christmas In Connecticut, that's a new one too., It's just a sweet holiday movie, the cast is great, Barbarta Stanwyck and Dennis Morgan, etc. What's not to like about that film? Certainly everyone is entitled to their opinion and I strongly disagree with that  poster's opinion.

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26 minutes ago, JamesJazGuitar said:

I would never put you no ignore since I enjoy your comments and insight.    But newbies may not understand your style of posting;   The user you replied to had posted only around 14 post.      Thus saying "As for the songs,  they're fantastic.  If you don't like them,  you clearly don't appreciate good song-writing.  I know this sounds personal and insulting, that's not my intention",   might come off as an insult to such a newbie,  regardless of your intention.

But don't change your style.   As Bogie said to your avatar buddy,  Joel Cario,   users will just have to take-it-and-like-it! 

(oh,  and yes,  I find that songs in WSS to be well written,  both the music and the lyrics).

 

 

As the newbie in question, I'll  throw in that I have no intention of getting my knickers in a twist over something that goes on within a message board.  That's all I have to say on the subject lest I veer into passive / aggressiveness. ;)

 

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1 hour ago, LoyFan said:

As the newbie in question, I'll  throw in that I have no intention of getting my knickers in a twist over something that goes on within a message board.  That's all I have to say on the subject lest I veer into passive / aggressiveness. ;)

 

Well,  LoyFan,  here's an olive branch:   I take it you do like Myrna Loy movies.  I do enjoy most of the Thin Man series,  especially the first couple.  But my favourite Myrna Loy film is The Best Years of Our Lives. Great movie,  and although Myrna isn't in every scene,  she is an important character in the film and she does contribute her own special Myrna Loy magic to it.   My least favourite Myrna Loy movie is Mr. Blandings Builds His Dream House.  I guess that's a  "popular movie I hate",  although I don't "hate" it   ( and certainly not with the heat of a thousand suns),  I just find it a bit tedious, I get sick of all the problems and setbacks Cary and Myrna encounter with their house plans,  I know it's supposed to be funny but I just find it a bit overlong   (even though it's only 93 minutes)  and kind of annoying.

But that's not Myrna's fault,  she's fine in the film,  as is Cary.  I like both those actors,  I just find Mr. Blandings Builds His Dream House to be not my cup of tea.     The movie's like a full-length version of one of those  Pete Smith "comedy" shorts.

 

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19 minutes ago, misswonderly3 said:

Well,  LoyFan,  here's an olive branch:   I take it you do like Myrna Loy movies.  I do enjoy most of the Thin Man series,  especially the first couple.  But my favourite Myrna Loy film is The Best Years of Our Lives. Great movie,  and although Myrna isn't in every scene,  she is an important character in the film and she does contribute her own special Myrna Loy magic to it.   My least favourite Myrna Loy movie is Mr. Blandings Builds His Dream House.  I guess that's  "popular movie I hate",  although I don't "hate" it   ( and certainly not with the heat of a thousand suns),  I just find it a bit tedious, I get sick of all the problems and setbacks Cary and Myrna encounter with their house plans,  I know it's supposed to be funny but I just find it a bit overlong   (even though it's only 93 minutes)  and kind of annoying.

But that's not Myrna's fault,  she's fine in the film,  as is Cary.  I like both those actors,  I just find Mr. Blandings Builds His Dream House to be not my cup of tea.     The movie's like a full-length version of one of those  Pete Smith "comedy" shorts.

 

I accept your olive branch. Here's mine - I did not intend to imply that Leonard Bernstein & Co. are no talent hacks.  Kudos to them for creating a well loved classic.  The fact that I think it's agony set to music takes nothing away from it  and is neither here nor there because there is no accounting for taste.  I'm confident  I wouldn't like WSS with or without the music.  It has too many strikes against it in my book.

 Myrna Loy is my favorite actress. I find her watchable in any movie regardless of whether or not I like the movie as a whole.  I would be hard pressed to say that about any other actress.  We do have some common ground as I also find Mr. Blanding tedious and silly. However, my current opinion of it is possibly related to age. Twenty or thirty years ago, I was crazy about it.  Now, I wish the pairing of Grant and Loy had not been wasted on it.  I also wish Loy had had a more extensive (not sure this is the correct word) career as did many of her peers like Stanwyck and Davis. Many of Loy's movies are rather lightweight and then, she stepped back during the war. After which, she was mostly relegated to matronly roles. Aside from The Best Years of Our Lives  she never really got it back on track, IMO.  My favorite Loy movie is Libeled Lady.

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The thing about those kind of "fixing up a house" or fixing up 'something' [select something else to fix -- maybe a boat]-type of movies is that, I find, they don't wear as well as we get older.  Instead of being funny they become more annoying and irritating.  → I really believe there's something about that style of 'comedy' that just doesn't wear well as people age and watch such films.

I find that, with my own taste in movies, the "Loveable Loser"-type character Red Skelton frequently played is far more irritating than amusing as I've gotten older [I'm 48], but when Red plays it (mostly) straight -- like with Fred Astaire in THREE LITTLE WORDS -- I find him much better to watch.   Red doesn't have to be antic and irritating . . . but in many of his films he IS.

(GEORGE WASHINGTON SLEPT HERE (1942) and MR. BLANDINGS BUILDS HIS DREAM HOUSE (1948) make for a good 'Double Feature' if you're in the right mood to watch "Fixer-Upper Movies".   🏗️  ← This emoji is supposed to be a "Building Under Construction", btw.  I just found it on the 'Emoji List').

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"Blandings" holds up for me I guess because  not only did I read the book as well( and it's one of the few movies "as good as the book".  but my daughter also went through the ordeal of having a house built and went through her own pitfalls of construction problems.  Not as many as Blandings, but certainly more expensive.  ;)  But the newest version of the "fixer-upper" type movie, Tom Hanks' THE MONEY PIT ('86) was, despite being entertaining, so over the top and far fetched it hasn't had any subsequent re-viewings by me.   GEORGE WASHINGTON SLEPT HERE is a childhood favorite, so still gets a look by me when it gets shown, and THE EGG AND I is another of the "good" type of these kind of flicks.

Sepiatone

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15 hours ago, LoyFan said:

Myrna Loy is my favorite actress. I find her watchable in any movie regardless of whether or not I like the movie as a whole.  I would be hard pressed to say that about any other actress.  We do have some common ground as I also find Mr. Blanding tedious and silly. However, my current opinion of it is possibly related to age. Twenty or thirty years ago, I was crazy about it.  Now, I wish the pairing of Grant and Loy had not been wasted on it

We also have common ground with Mr. Blanding;    The film is tedious in that it is mostly a one-joke comedy.    Also I find the best performance to be by Melvyn Douglas.    The film has it moments (what film wouldn't with the sheer talent and comic ability of Grant and Loy),   but it isn't one of my favorite Grant or Loy films.   They made a much better team in The Bachelor and the Bobby-Soxer.

I'm curious about your feelings of early Loy films where she plays a negative character:  E.g.  The Animal Kingdom with Leslie Howard and Ann Harding.    Loy gives a solid performance in the film, but she isn't the loveable type of character she plays in the vast majority of films she made starting with The Thin Man.    She also played some vamps in early 30s films.

1,046 Myrna Loy Photos and Premium High Res Pictures - Getty Images

 

 

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7 hours ago, JamesJazGuitar said:

I'm curious about your feelings of early Loy films where she plays a negative character:  E.g.  The Animal Kingdom with Leslie Howard and Ann Harding.    Loy gives a solid performance in the film, but she isn't the loveable type of character she plays in the vast majority of films she made starting with The Thin Man.    She also played some vamps in early 30s films.

As she is my favorite, I gravitate toward movies in which she has a sympathetic part so The Animal Kingdom and Thirteen Women and the like aren't among my favorites. However, I think The Animal Kingdom in particular speaks to my previous comment about her career not being as extensive as I would have liked.  In this film, she proves that she could play the "villain",  although villain may be too strong a word and why she would go out of her way to keep Leslie Howard's character is beyond me. She was capable of delivering snarky lines and with her beauty and charm, I believe she could have exceled in witchy, manipulative roles.  None of her unsympathetic parts are in particularly good movies so she didn't necessarily have the opportunity to give bravura performances in them. I mean, she didn't make any memorable films that would move us to love to hate her such as Vivien Leigh as Scarlett O'Hara or like Barbara Stanwyck and Bette Davis in their various devious roles. 

Although I don't much like the movie  because I can't stand Montgomery Clift, I do like Loy in Lonelyhearts which was a far cry from her perfect wife persona. I think she played this sad, weary character quite well. It didn't hurt that she was opposite Robert Ryan who I adore and who made a career out of playing unsympathetic roles.

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Blow Up (1966)

What the . . .

The last time I was this confused was when I had to take a calculus test without the assistance of the class math genius, a friend, having completed the test and leaving his answers on full display on his desk beside me.

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@TomJH:  I liked BLOW UP for that reason.  It seemed like nothing is spelled out for the viewer; we are left to our own devices to try and figure out what's going on.   I believe, however, there WAS a murder . . . but what happened to the body?  And who was it?  And is the person or persons who removed the body the same people who killed the man?  Well, shucks!  I dunno . . . :)

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10 hours ago, TomJH said:

Blow Up (1966)

What the . . .

The last time I was this confused was when I had to take a calculus test without the assistance of the class math genius, a friend, having completed the test and leaving his answers on full display on his desk beside me.

As an avid photographer, I thought I'd like BLOW UP more than I did.   But the movie didn't confuse me as much as it did frustrate me.  No sooner do you get the impression it's going somewhere, it  sits down.  So I can get where you're coming from Tom.  :) 

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I'll use the word "dislike" for:

DR. ZHIVAGO    As someone who appreciates David Lean, this is a big disappointment for me.  There are two fine performances from Rod Steiger and Tom Courtenay.  Otherwise, I much prefer (and highly recommend) 1937's KNIGHT WITHOUT ARMOR if one wants picturesque adventures and love amidst the turmoil of the Russian Revolution.  Robert Donat and Marlene Dietrich are wonderful as the two star-crossed lovers.   And that ending!  Talk about romantic!  Sigh....

BONNIE AND CLYDE   I understand it's American "New Wave" but hell, just take out everything and leave Foggy Mountain Breakdown, lol.  Yes, I "get" all the so-called intellectual allusions but just don't care!

MODERN TIMES    I know -- heresy!  But for cripes sake Charlie, you and Paulette are in a department store.  Can't she at least swipe a pair of shoes?  Apparently Ms. Goddard must remain barefoot and cheek-smudged throughout.  Chaplin just loves the concept of a Victorian waif.   Gets on my nerves and ruins whatever "genius" ideas, visual or otherwise, the comedian is trying to impart.  (by the way, Paulette is also cheek-smudged in THE GREAT DICTATOR)

WHITE CHRISTMAS    Flat and uninspired.  A little of Danny Kaye goes a long way.  HOLIDAY INN is the one to watch as it has cozy charm plus Fred Astaire who is teamed with Bing, which for me is  much more timeless, classic and satisfying pairing.

 

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The torches of the villagers are coming for me, I just know it:

SINGING IN THE RAIN     Donald O'Connor is wonderful.   Otherwise....

AN AMERICAN IN PARIS   Gene Kelly singing and dancing in French with the kids, no thank you.  Gene Kelly's "artistic" touches, no thank you.  Always gets too big for his britches.  Much prefer him in ON THE TOWN (one of my favorite musicals but even there Kelly can't resist adding that superfluous, pretentious ballet sequence)

 

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VERTIGO    I've said it before and will say it again -- it feels like Jimmy Stewart is riding around San Francisco for the entire length of this movie looking for a woman he first glanced at for about two seconds at a restaurant, and that was enough time, apparently, to set Scottie off on his obsessive, baffling, stupid quest.   Not one of Hitch's best in my opinion although of course others wildly disagree.

TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD    Again, heresy!  I think Peck's finest performance is in THE YEARLING.  He should have gotten the Oscar for that.   Never fails to move me, whereas I feel manipulated by MOCKINGBIRD.    

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24 minutes ago, Bronxgirl48 said:

The torches of the villagers are coming for me, I just know it:

SINGING IN THE RAIN     Donald O'Connor is wonderful.   Otherwise....

AN AMERICAN IN PARIS   Gene Kelly singing and dancing in French with the kids, no thank you.  Gene Kelly's "artistic" touches, no thank you.  Always gets too big for his britches.  Much prefer him in ON THE TOWN (one of my favorite musicals but even there Kelly can't resist adding that superfluous, pretentious ballet sequence)

 

Its interesting that you love Donald in Rain but tire quickly of Danny. They were always so similar to me. Childish and silly in their extremes. I like Rain for the title number but the rest just sort of sit through. The dialect coach scenes are fun. 

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Well, one thing I do like about Danny is that he can switch from silly to sophisticated rather seamlessly which I think was the essence of his appeal.  For example, in ON THE RIVIERA Kaye plays the urbane man-about-town French flyer and also an American entertainer who doubles for him.   Not sure O'Connor for all his gifts had that particular versatility, but of course I'd be glad to be proved wrong.

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2 hours ago, Bronxgirl48 said:

Well, one thing I do like about Danny is that he can switch from silly to sophisticated rather seamlessly which I think was the essence of his appeal.  For example, in ON THE RIVIERA Kaye plays the urbane man-about-town French flyer and also an American entertainer who doubles for him.   Not sure O'Connor for all his gifts had that particular versatility, but of course I'd be glad to be proved wrong.

Danny had the broader range. The only drama I recall from Donald were in segments of The Buster Keaton Story. He wasn't bad. 

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Oh my gosh I forgot about Donald starring in THE BUSTER KEATON STORY.   Have never seen it but now really want to.  Thanks for mentioning this movie. 

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1 minute ago, Bronxgirl48 said:

Oh my gosh I forgot about Donald starring in THE BUSTER KEATON STORY.   Have never seen it but now really want to.  Thanks for mentioning this movie. 

As biography it's almost entirely worthless. As a showbiz movie, it's fun. Ann Blyth is a cutie. I saw it first as a little kid, probably before I knew who Buster was. Donald I think appealed to me as a kid because he himself was so like a kid. 

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Thanks Bronxgirl & Dan. Your posts are perfect examples of how debate should work. I enjoy several of the movies Bronxie dislikes, but completely understand her reasoning...because she takes the time to explain, even if just a sentence or two. And knowing these films, I can see why she feels that way.

I don't, but that's OK. That's what makes movies (& any art) fun-they touch you or they don't.

That said, I was taught never to use the word "hate" either-"dislike" was the strongest I could say.  Same for (Philadelphia Story) couldn't say "stink" but "smell" was acceptable.

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