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Katherine Hepburn, Lucille Ball


mabelnormand1930
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MABELNORMAND 1930,   I'm not a huge Hepburn fan either.   Although I do like her in certain select roles.  I like her I guess, when she's sort of low key and self-deprecating,  not quivering with significance.    Liked her and Joan Blondell in "Desk Set",   breaking up with laughter, so hard they are snorting and bending over with glee.   That 'sneaking-up-on-you' attraction she and Tracy enacted in "Desk Set" was also among the most natural and appealing of their pairings, in my opinion...     

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13 hours ago, mabelnormand1930 said:

Not a fan of either, TCM, please retire their films for a while.ūüėĀ

Note. I do think KH gave a good performance in Alice Adams.

You do know you can either---

Put in a disc or a tape( if you still have and can play those) or...

Choose one of the other 200+ channels availed to you.  ;) 

Then you can avoid all the Lucy or Kate films you want.

I like both Kate and Lucy ("LOVE" Lucy, actually  ;) )  And anything Lucy did early on( won't get into the late career MAME)  but not all of Kate's roles.  But that's more or less the way it is with just about every actor and actress.  

I still feel it's too bad the studio suits were so short-sighted as far as Lucy was concerned.  She(to me) was way more talented and beautiful than they gave her credit for.   

Sepiatone

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3 hours ago, Sepiatone said:

You do know you can either---

Put in a disc or a tape( if you still have and can play those) or...

Choose one of the other 200+ channels availed to you.  ;) 

Then you can avoid all the Lucy or Kate films you want.

I like both Kate and Lucy ("LOVE" Lucy, actually  ;) )  And anything Lucy did early on( won't get into the late career MAME)  but not all of Kate's roles.  But that's more or less the way it is with just about every actor and actress.  

I still feel it's too bad the studio suits were so short-sighted as far as Lucy was concerned.  She(to me) was way more talented and beautiful than they gave her credit for.   

Sepiatone

 

You do know there are millions of stupid repeats on those 200 plus channels? Really a waste of money to be honest. To each his own.

 

MabelūüėĀ

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I'm glad TCM showed the '68 flick YOURS, MINE, And OURS last night.  Long nostalgic favorite with Lucille Ball and Henry Fonda.  First saw it when it came out.  And each time in more recent times I see it I still get tickled by the grocery store segment, where they get four overloaded carts of groceries and get charged a whopping $126  for them!  :o  :lol:

Those same groceries today would probably cost a HOUSE PAYMENT!  ;) 

And Lucy was lovely in that one too.  :)

Sepiatone

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On 10/28/2021 at 1:08 PM, Sepiatone said:

I still feel it's too bad the studio suits were so short-sighted as far as Lucy was concerned.

I did a quick review of Ball's 30s and 40s film career when she was signed to RKO and than MGM,    and I don't think the suits were short-sighted.  

RKO used her in many films and she just didn't become a major star - audiences favored other actresses.      In addition she wasn't known as a dramatic actress and this limited her career to light or romantic comedies.       That was OK for the 30s but not once WWII started.   

So I view it more as timing;    Ball just wasn't at the same level as Jean Arthur or other older actresses (similar in style) during the late 30s and early 40s.       WWII put a damper on comedy (unless one was part of the Preston Sturges group of players).      When comedy started to make a comeback especially with Judy Holiday at Columbia,    Ball was also under contract with the studio and Holiday got the better roles.       Ball found her place with her T.V. show.     

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54 minutes ago, Sepiatone said:

I'm glad TCM showed the '68 flick YOURS, MINE, And OURS last night.  Long nostalgic favorite with Lucille Ball and Henry Fonda.  First saw it when it came out.  And each time in more recent times I see it I still get tickled by the grocery store segment, where they get four overloaded carts of groceries and get charged a whopping $126  for them!  :o  :lol:

Those same groceries today would probably cost a HOUSE PAYMENT!  ;) 

And Lucy was lovely in that one too.  :)

Sepiatone

Well, my parent's mortgage payment around that time was about $90.  By the end of their mortgage in 1982, their electric bill was more than their house payment, even though they folded in a new loan for an addition to the house in 1971 or 1972.

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On 10/28/2021 at 1:08 PM, Sepiatone said:

You do know you can either---

Put in a disc or a tape( if you still have and can play those) or...

Choose one of the other 200+ channels availed to you.  ;) 

Then you can avoid all the Lucy or Kate films you want.

I like both Kate and Lucy ("LOVE" Lucy, actually  ;) )  And anything Lucy did early on( won't get into the late career MAME)  but not all of Kate's roles.  But that's more or less the way it is with just about every actor and actress.  

I still feel it's too bad the studio suits were so short-sighted as far as Lucy was concerned.  She(to me) was way more talented and beautiful than they gave her credit for.   

Sepiatone

You do know this is the TCM website, don't you? 

It's primarily dedicated to talking about the movies and actors shown on the TCM station.  I  often find the critical comments just as interesting as the raving praises, although I'm glad there's a balance of both.

If, like my Aunt Florence,  you  follow the rule  that says, "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all," there are plenty of fan sites for you to follow.  

Like this one, where you can talk all day about how hilarious it is to see a grown woman act like a spoiled four year old.

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20 hours ago, AndreaDoria said:

 

Like this one, where you can talk all day about how hilarious it is to see a grown woman act like a spoiled four year old.

I have a sister in law I can visit if I want to spend ALL DAY seeing something like that.  Just who were you referring to with that remark?  I mean, the "grown woman acting like a spoiled four year old"? 

And you've been here long enough to know folks here often stray from only discussing movies and actors shown on TCM.    Don't you?  ;) 

Sepiatone

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22 hours ago, txfilmfan said:

Well, my parent's mortgage payment around that time was about $90.  By the end of their mortgage in 1982, their electric bill was more than their house payment, even though they folded in a new loan for an addition to the house in 1971 or 1972.

Gad!  I DO HOPE you realized the "house payment" I was referring to was a typical payment in 2021!   Right?  ;)   The house note for my first house( assumed mortgage in '73) was $155.  $20 less than the rent of an apartment my ex and I were in when we found that house.   But then, that assumed mortgage was for an original amount of $22,500.  I found out that same house last sold in 2009 for $60,000!  

Sepiatone

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22 hours ago, JamesJazGuitar said:

  In addition she wasn't a dramatic actress and this limited her career to light or romantic comedies.       

WHAT!  You never saw FIVE CAME BACK('39)  Or  THE BIG STREET('42)?  "wasn't a dramatic actress" my AZZ! (and only two of several deftly acted dramatic roles for Lucy).

Sepiatone

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1 hour ago, Sepiatone said:

WHAT!  You never saw FIVE CAME BACK('39)  Or  THE BIG STREET('42)?  "wasn't a dramatic actress" my AZZ! (and only two of several deftly acted dramatic roles for Lucy).

Sepiatone

You're correct:   I should have said that Lucy wasn't known as a dramatic actress instead of she wasn't one.       As you point out she was good in those films (and Lured as well).

As good as she was in The Big Street it wasn't enough for RKO to offer her a new contract at what she felt she was worth and she sighed with MGM shortly after the film was released.    So in that way one could say the RKO suits were short slighted.       But like I said there were other established A actresses that were being asked to play parts that would have been well suited for Lucy:    She was lucky to get the role in The Big Street:

Damon Runyon originally wanted to cast Charles Laughton and Carole Lombard in the lead roles, but neither one was interested in the project. Lombard suggested the producer consider her friend Lucille Ball and, despite pressure to hire a better-known actress, such as Barbara Stanwyck or Jean Arthur, from RKO executives, Runyon offered her the role. 

 

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1 hour ago, JamesJazGuitar said:

You're correct:   I should have said that Lucy wasn't known as a dramatic actress instead of she wasn't one.       As you point out she was good in those films (and Lured as well).

As good as she was in The Big Street it wasn't enough for RKO to offer her a new contract at what she felt she was worth and she sighed with MGM shortly after the film was released.    So in that way one could say the RKO suits were short slighted.       But like I said there were other established A actresses that were being asked to play parts that would have been well suited for Lucy:    She was lucky to get the role in The Big Street:

Damon Runyon originally wanted to cast Charles Laughton and Carole Lombard in the lead roles, but neither one was interested in the project. Lombard suggested the producer consider her friend Lucille Ball and, despite pressure to hire a better-known actress, such as Barbara Stanwyck or Jean Arthur, from RKO executives, Runyon offered her the role. 

We should also mention that in the post-war years Lucy headlined her own radio show, a sitcom called My Favorite Husband which was very popular with audiences and served as the basis for I Love Lucy. So even though her motion picture career had ups and downs, she was already a household name before she found lasting fame on television. The radio program ran from 1948 to 1951 and produced over a hundred episodes. Half of the scripts were reused for the early seasons of I Love Lucy with Desi now playing the husband instead of Richard Denning.

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4 hours ago, Sepiatone said:

I have a sister in law I can visit if I want to spend ALL DAY seeing something like that.  Just who were you referring to with that remark?  I mean, the "grown woman acting like a spoiled four year old"? 

Since the comment was in the same sentence that linked to an, "I Love Lucy" fan club, I thought it was clear I was talking about the character Lucille Ball played on the, "I Love Lucy" show.

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On 10/27/2021 at 11:53 PM, mabelnormand1930 said:

Not a fan of either, TCM, please retire their films for a while.ūüėĀ

Note. I do think KH gave a good performance in Alice Adams.

I have always disliked one of the actresses you mention,  and been a big fan of the other.

I've always found Katharine Hepburn irritating;  she almost always strikes me as smug,  a bit like the Tracy Lord character she portrays so convincingly in The Philadelphia Story.  Tracy is "perfect", or thinks she is.  I actually like this film,  and Hepburn's performance in it,  but I do think no one could have played Tracy better in part because she seems so suited to Katharine Hepburn's persona.

Anyway,  I don't dislike Hepburn as much as I used to  -- I used to loathe her.  Now I can watch and even enjoy quite a few of her films  (including,  yes,  Alice Adams ).  But she'll always be one of my least favourite actresses from the "classic" era.

Now, Lucille Ball is a whole different story  ( and not the Philadelphia one, either.  sorry.)   I like her as much as I dislike Hepburn.  Lucy was so talented  and clever.  So was Katharine Hepburn, but Lucy was also extremely likable.  In fact,  I enjoy just about everything I've ever seen Lucille Ball in; she always makes whatever she's in more entertaining.  

Having "said my piece" about each of these actresses,  I will say,  I don't think TCM should   "retire" either of them or their films , " for a while" .  Just because I don't like Katharine Hepburn doesn't mean there aren't people out there who do,  and I'm sure they appreciate TCM's airing her work.  There are lots of actors I'm not crazy about or am indifferent to,  but just because I'm not interested in them doesn't mean I want TCM to stop showing their films.  

I watch something TCM airs when I think I'll enjoy it,  and find something else to watch or do  ( like read, for instance) when I don't.  I know there are always many people who watch TCM who are fans of actors, directors,  producers,  who I don't like.  But I wouldn't want to deprive them of seeing artists they like on the station,  just because I don't share their enthusiasm .

 

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For many newcomers to classic film, Lucy might be one of the few names they recognize on the channel. So it would be to TCM's benefit to showcase her films when appropriate. Often, a person will tune in to watch someone they know so they won't feel so lost watching these films from so long ago.

And I doubt they "give a rest" to one of the most awarded actresses either.  Big stars are always at the forefront, that's why they're big stars. Kate will always be in heavy rotation here.

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5 minutes ago, GGGGerald said:

For many newcomers to classic film, Lucy might be one of the few names they recognize on the channel. So it would be to TCM's benefit to showcase her films when appropriate. Often, a person will tune in to watch someone they know so they won't feel so lost watching these films from so long ago.

And I doubt they "give a rest" to one of the most awarded actresses either.  Big stars are always at the forefront, that's why they're big stars. Kate will always be in heavy rotation here.

Right,  I agree.  And I would not want her films to not be "in heavy rotation"  on TCM,   whether I personally like her or not is irrelevant.  There are many who do,  and they look to TCM to show her movies,  which it does.  And that's as it should be.

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I have been completely misunderstood here. I did not mean TCM should stop showing Lucy and Katherines films. If other people like these two actresses, fine. I don't and felt enough is enough. I like certain actresses and actors but rearely see any of their films on here. We ALL have a right to say how we feel about a certain film, or actor. I am now used to the not so kind comments. I will continue to say what I feel, or think about a film, etc.

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5 hours ago, mabelnormand1930 said:

We ALL have a right to say how we feel about a certain film, or actor.

I agree and that's all I was trying to say here. 

My favorite actress is Barbara Stanwyck, but if some people wanted to come here and say they didn't like her and why, I would be interested in what they had to say and defend their right to say it.  I would also probably write a rebuttal about why I think she's great. 

What I don't like is this attitude I've seen here a lot lately that if you don't like an actor, or film or TCM presenter, you should keep your mouth shut about it or go somewhere else.

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19 hours ago, AndreaDoria said:

Since the comment was in the same sentence that linked to an, "I Love Lucy" fan club, I thought it was clear I was talking about the character Lucille Ball played on the, "I Love Lucy" show.

Well, there's been plenty of spoiled four year olds in my family.  And now they're spoiled adults.  ;)  But none of them ever brought Lucy Ricardo to mind.   I mean, does THIS seem like a spoiled four year old to you....?

Sepiatone

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On 10/29/2021 at 9:40 AM, Sepiatone said:

I'm glad TCM showed the '68 flick YOURS, MINE, And OURS last night.  Long nostalgic favorite with Lucille Ball and Henry Fonda.  First saw it when it came out.  And each time in more recent times I see it I still get tickled by the grocery store segment, where they get four overloaded carts of groceries and get charged a whopping $126  for them!  :o  :lol:

Those same groceries today would probably cost a HOUSE PAYMENT!  ;) 

And Lucy was lovely in that one too.  :)

Sepiatone

That scene always makes me laugh too.  I looked up the $126 in an inflation calculator and it was $993 worth of groceries.  Just how much money do Lucy and Hank pull in anyway? 

I always laugh at the scene where the bedroom and bathroom assignments are being doled out.  In my house, I'd be 1, Red, A. 

I think my favorite part though is the scene where Lucy meets Hank's 10 kids.  From the scene with Veronica in the window with jam covered hands, declaring that Lucy has "mean eyes," to the older boys fixing Lucy up a "screwdriver" made of vodka, gin, scotch and a splash of orange juice, to Lucy dumping milk and potatoes in Veronica's lap, to her drunken breakdown where she vacillates between cackling and sobbing... it is a very funny part of the movie.  I also love the plight of poor Phillip who can't even get breakfast and has to invent the oatmeal sandwich.  

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3 hours ago, Sepiatone said:

Well, there's been plenty of spoiled four year olds in my family.  And now they're spoiled adults.  ;)  But none of them ever brought Lucy Ricardo to mind.   I mean, does THIS seem like a spoiled four year old to you....?

Sepiatone

No but this does:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-y3hHsgO3nM

There is one characteristic evident in both videos. She's not very sensitive when it comes to the feelings of other people.

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15 hours ago, mabelnormand1930 said:

I have been completely misunderstood here. I did not mean TCM should stop showing Lucy and Katherines films. If other people like these two actresses, fine. I don't and felt enough is enough. I like certain actresses and actors but rearely see any of their films on here. We ALL have a right to say how we feel about a certain film, or actor. I am now used to the not so kind comments. I will continue to say what I feel, or think about a film, etc.

Well,  as has been noted many times on many websites,  there is a lot of room for misunderstanding,  and it happens often.  Seems to be an inevitable part of internet communication.

I actually went back and re-read the two posts I wrote here,  just to see if either of them were unkind.  I don't think they were,  and they certainly weren't intended to be. In fact,  I even agree with you about one of the actresses you said you didn't much like (  Katharine Hepburn.)

I know how frustrating it is to be misunderstood on this or any other website;  I guess you were just saying you don't like Katharine Hepburn or Lucille Ball,  and you wouldn't mind if TCM aired their work a little less.  I don't think anyone here, including me,  was saying you have no right to say how you feel about a film or actor.

In fact,  when I started posting here,  a long time ago,  that was one of the first things I said, and I got in trouble for it.  I said I did not like Katharine Hepburn, and I asked what it was people saw in her.  A lot of people were very mad at me and thought I was being a troll, when in fact I was sincerely trying to understand why so many people loved this actress who I couldn't stand.  So I definitely was not feeling unkind towards you ,  I was just saying a lot of people like Kate and because of that,  TCM will likely continue to show her work a lot.  And I was just saying that while I don't much like K.H. myself,  I don't mind if her films get aired on TCM.  That's all.  

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