LornaHansonForbes Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 (And I have seen this movie many times.) Anyone watching: is this score newly commissioned or just on this particular print TCM is showing? It is AWFUL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LornaHansonForbes Posted October 28, 2021 Author Share Posted October 28, 2021 It’s unimaginative, repetitious, completely out of sync with the action, and is really wrecking the effectiveness of the film. PHILLIP GLASS would be proud. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LornaHansonForbes Posted October 28, 2021 Author Share Posted October 28, 2021 There was nothing wrong with the old score. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LornaHansonForbes Posted October 28, 2021 Author Share Posted October 28, 2021 (I know there are a lot of prints and a lot of versions of the 1926 phantom out there) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LornaHansonForbes Posted October 28, 2021 Author Share Posted October 28, 2021 OMG. Carlotta is performing Faust right now and I swear to God the score sounds like somebody hit the demo button on a Casio keyboard. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LornaHansonForbes Posted October 28, 2021 Author Share Posted October 28, 2021 I don’t even think this music was performed by an orchestra, I think it’s a computer generated score. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LornaHansonForbes Posted October 28, 2021 Author Share Posted October 28, 2021 I had to turn off the film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LornaHansonForbes Posted October 28, 2021 Author Share Posted October 28, 2021 Just wretched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LornaHansonForbes Posted October 28, 2021 Author Share Posted October 28, 2021 THIS SCORE [linked below] did NOT play on the version that aired this morning: (NOTE, this version has ACTUAL SINGING during the opera scenes...as it very well should) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LornaHansonForbes Posted October 28, 2021 Author Share Posted October 28, 2021 THE SCORE in the version that played on TCM this morning sounded like incidental music from a self-produced youtube video....edit- or that plays during the "victory lap" part when you're playing MARIOKART... computer-generated. no regards to changes in tone between comedy and romance and horror, which happen often in the film. no singing during the singing scenes. truly, breasts the tape in front of THE SPECIALLY COMMISSIONED PHILLIP GLASS SCORE FOR 1931 DRACULA as "worst and most needless re-scoring of a film ever." why? WHY DID SOMEONE DO THIS? was there a copyright issue? ps- at least with DRACULA they had the excuse of there not being music originally to fall back on 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LornaHansonForbes Posted October 28, 2021 Author Share Posted October 28, 2021 if we're getting in the habit of doing this, may I suggest adding a score of SPIKE JONZE instrumentals for 1931's FRANKENSTEIN? As MALTIN said, it is "a film that cries out for a score." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Faiola Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 Here is my "Universal" edition, with scenes restored from the 1925 cut: 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swithin Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 Sometimes restorations of silent films feature new scores, which is generally a shame, although it may allow for a new copyright. I had been looking forward to watching Piccadilly (1929), but the new score was so awful I couldn't watch it. On the other hand, the Carmine Coppola score for Abel Gance's Napoleon is brilliant, an amalgam of classics and new scoring. I prefer it to the Carl Davis version. (I don't think Gance particularly liked the original score, by Arthur Honegger.) 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NipkowDisc Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 maybe somebody at tcm shoulda looked at it with it's awful new music before airing it...but that woulda made sense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmovieviewer Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 Lorna, TCM had previously been showing a British Channel Four restoration with an orchestral score by Carl Davis. Now they are showing a more recent Kino restoration - this version has 2 scores available, an orchestral score by Alloy Orchestra and a ‘theatre organ’ score by Gaylord Carter, which is the one that was chosen for the current TCM presentation. I must agree with you that the previous orchestral score is much more impressive. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LornaHansonForbes Posted October 28, 2021 Author Share Posted October 28, 2021 Just now, cmovieviewer said: Lorna, TCM had previously been showing a British Channel Four restoration with an orchestral score by Carl Davis. Now they are showing a more recent Kino restoration - this version has 2 scores available, an orchestral score by Alloy Orchestra and a ‘theatre organ’ score by Gaylord Carter, which is the one that was chosen for the current TCM presentation. I must agree with you that the previous orchestral score is much more impressive. THANK YOU! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LornaHansonForbes Posted October 28, 2021 Author Share Posted October 28, 2021 note- I say this as someone with no musical talent whatsoever... But scoring movies is a tricky enough business, REscoring them (or adding a score or music where it has been absent or for copyright issues) is really, to paraphrase MARTIN SCORCESE in that old TCM LETTERBOX PROMO "essentially REDIRECTING a movie." you can really change the whole tone with music, and if it doesn't "fit" with the action/dialogue, it's really noticeable. ...and in the case of a composer rescoring a film where everyone involved is dead and has no say-so, you're giving someone a looooooooooooooot of license with other people's work in a way that makes me squeemish. 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmovieviewer Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 Another thing worth mentioning is that the runtime of the current TCM version is around 78 minutes, whereas the previous version was 91 minutes. Much of this difference might be explained by a switch from a 20 frames per second source to a 24 frames per second source, but an in-depth analysis would have to be done to determine if there are content differences between the two versions. (You can see that the version Ray posted above is 102 minutes long for comparison.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Faiola Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 TCM has only shown the myriad versions of the Eastman House print, which was a silent version of the talkie reissue. The most recent airing ran 79 minutes at 24fps. BTW - here's my Phantom tribute page: http://www.chelsearialtostudios.com/phantom/phantom.htm 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sepiatone Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 3 hours ago, Swithin said: Sometimes restorations of silent films feature new scores, which is generally a shame, although it may allow for a new copyright. I had been looking forward to watching Piccadilly (1929), but the new score was so awful I couldn't watch it. On the other hand, the Carmine Coppola score for Abel Gance's Napoleon is brilliant, an amalgam of classics and new scoring. I prefer it to the Carl Davis version. (I don't think Gance particularly liked the original score, by Arthur Honegger.) First--- CRIPES LORNA---- You coulda squeezed your first posts into ONE and said all that was necessary. SWITHIN--- I've long wondered if silents, made in many prints for national distribution, were delivered with designated scores for the pianists or organists in theaters t the time, or if those theater's musicians did their best at improvising. I suspect( or hope?) it was the former. and if it was, why not obtain those original scores for newly recording them for the restorations, or even recording orchestrated versions of the original scores? I could never understand why an entertainment channel like TCM, purportedly dedicated to "classic" film would commission new scores for the films. And by the way--- Sometime in the early '80's Gance's restored NAPOLEON went on a nationwide U.S.tour. In Detroit it was shown at the city's FORD AUDITORIUM, at the time the home to the Detroit symphony Orchestra. I saw it there with CARMINE COPPOLA conducting the Detroit orchestra of his score while the movie was being shown on three huge screens constructed specially for the movie's "triptych" scenes. It WAS a dazzling score. But some U.S. critics didn't like it. Sepiatone 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LsDoorMat Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 5 hours ago, LornaHansonForbes said: (And I have seen this movie many times.) Anyone watching: is this score newly commissioned or just on this particular print TCM is showing? It is AWFUL. I haven't seen what showed on TCM last night, but scores do make the silents. At the virtual TCM film festival last spring, I was excited that "So This is Paris" (1926) was going to be shown. But the score was disappointing. Especially for the scene at The Artists' Ball. Silent Hollywood, a 1980 documentary, showed the ballroom scene to demonstrate that the silents had no problem with sound, just synchronized speech. That entire documentary was scored by Carl Davis, and he did a good job with the ballroom scene of So This is Paris. But I imagine copyright kept whoever restored it from using that part of Davis' score. And some people just think they can do better if they start over, but they can't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LornaHansonForbes Posted October 28, 2021 Author Share Posted October 28, 2021 57 minutes ago, Sepiatone said: First--- CRIPES LORNA---- You coulda squeezed your first posts into ONE and said all that was necessary. I know, I'm sorry. It was very early and I was still waking up and watching the movie as I posted, and the score was really starting to p!ss me off. also, when i post with my phone, it is VERY HARD to edit and voice transcription is VERY UNRELIABLE, so sometimes I post in short bursts which are easier to fix errors in than several paragraphs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LsDoorMat Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 7 hours ago, LornaHansonForbes said: (And I have seen this movie many times.) Anyone watching: is this score newly commissioned or just on this particular print TCM is showing? It is AWFUL. Lorna - I'm no music aficionado, but out of curiosity I played some of Phantom on Watch TCM, including where Carlotta sings and the chandelier drops. The score is no Carl Davis creation, but it changes mood with the film and definitely does not sound like a Casio demo. There were two scores for this film. Could it be that Watch TCM has the score they did not broadcast last night? When you have time you might look at it on Watch TCM and see if the score is different from what you heard. This sounds like it could be the Alloy Orchestra. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Movie Collector OH Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 34 minutes ago, LsDoorMat said: Lorna - I'm no music aficionado, but out of curiosity I played some of Phantom on Watch TCM, including where Carlotta sings and the chandelier drops. The score is no Carl Davis creation, but it changes mood with the film and definitely does not sound like a Casio demo. There were two scores for this film. Could it be that Watch TCM has the score they did not broadcast last night? When you have time you might look at it on Watch TCM and see if the score is different from what you heard. This sounds like it could be the Alloy Orchestra. Alloy orchestra had keyboards. Mostly they focused on percussion though, and not at all in the conventional sense. This thread is a bit difficult to follow but somebody mentioned Spike Jones. They both used unconventional percussion/junk as instruments, but Alloy Orchestra wasn't a comedy act. So maybe this was it? Anyhow they had a lineup change recently and now perform under a similar sounding name to Alloy Orchestra. (Alchemy??) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmovieviewer Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 1 hour ago, LsDoorMat said: Lorna - I'm no music aficionado, but out of curiosity I played some of Phantom on Watch TCM, including where Carlotta sings and the chandelier drops. The score is no Carl Davis creation, but it changes mood with the film and definitely does not sound like a Casio demo. There were two scores for this film. Could it be that Watch TCM has the score they did not broadcast last night? When you have time you might look at it on Watch TCM and see if the score is different from what you heard. This sounds like it could be the Alloy Orchestra. I must correct myself - TCM is using the 'Alloy Orchestra' track. (I thought that since it is so heavy on keyboards it must be the 'theatre organ' track. Thanks MCOH for the info.) Use of the Alloy Orchestra track is confirmed by a YT clip of the unmasking scene from the Kino blu-ray, which matches the WatchTCM audio: (The unmasking scene is around the 38 minute mark on WatchTCM if you want to compare.) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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