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TCM- What happened?


VikingHead2000
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7 hours ago, unwatchable said:

I don't suppose it would do any good at all to point out the monumental double standard in such a statement. It's farcical, man.

The word in question is now simply not allowed to be used- in any context- by any "non-person-of-color" but black people can throw it around as a term of affection, or an epithet, or whatever they want. Can you not see the glaring, outrageous double standard, not to mention, the hypocrisy of this attitude?

A word is either acceptable in polite company, or it's not, and it is or is not for everyone, no matter what your race.

I have a single word on the tip of my fingertips that would turn this whole damn place upside down, and most probably would need to search it, just to find out what the hell it even means.  😁

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I'm not even  sure that  dialogue in The French connection was cut as I seem to remember it, but I could be  mistaken.

I  think black people being  able  to  use  the n word  is a small "compensation" for the last 300+ years  of American history.

It's similar to gays using  the q word.

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French Connection was a 20th Century Fox film, which means Disney has it now. I think the Mouse House did some editing, the same way that they have put disclaimers on their streaming service on Dumbo, Peter Pan, and The Aristocats because of racial controversy.

 

Should I remind Disney they also own Myra Breckinridge and Beyond the Valley of the Dolls now?

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1 hour ago, CinemaInternational said:

French Connection was a 20th Century Fox film, which means Disney has it now. I think the Mouse House did some editing, the same way that they have put disclaimers on their streaming service on Dumbo, Peter Pan, and The Aristocats because of racial controversy.

 

Should I remind Disney they also own Myra Breckinridge and Beyond the Valley of the Dolls now?

Seems to be the most likely scenario to me.

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Hey, everybody, a nuclear bomb certainly seems to have been detonated in response to my asking a question of the OP. I've had a very long day at work and am too wiped out to even type these sentences. I'm going to bed at roughly 7 pm my time, but hopefully I can formulate a cogent response to all the criticism and rage that's heaped upon me by this time tomorrow. Night, all. 

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Speaking of the DISNEY company of 2021 . . .

I have little use for the 'modern' Disney company.  Disclaimers, edits, re-cut movies, I don't know that there's any end to their 'alterations' and pea-brained "WARNINGS". 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I bought one of those old 'white clamshell' Disney releases two weeks ago.  Think it was a 1986 or '87 release because there's a bar code on the insert sleeve art.   A TIGER WALKS (1964).  I like those 1980s Disney "white clamshell" releases and, thankfully, I don't need the 'modern' Disney company to pick them up.  What passes for the Disney company these days can go pound sand.  

I didn't watch THE FRENCH CONNECTION (1971) on TCM the other day . . . but if Turner Classic did show an edited print I wonder if it was done on purpose and, if so, does that mean TCM is slowly turning gutless showing cut versions of movies?  

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@VAUTRIN:  Here's an old joke I remember reading probably 30 years ago.  Or more.

A young college boy comes home for Winter Vacation and his dad asks him how things are going. 

The college boy says to his Dad "I think my roommate is turning queer!"

Dad says "What makes you think that, Son?" 

The son answers "Well, he's started closing his eyes every time I kiss him!"   😜

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1 hour ago, Mr. Gorman said:

@VAUTRIN:  Here's an old joke I remember reading probably 30 years ago.  Or more.

A young college boy comes home for Winter Vacation and his dad asks him how things are going. 

The college boy says to his Dad "I think my roommate is turning queer!"

Dad says "What makes you think that, Son?" 

The son answers "Well, he's started closing his eyes every time I kiss him!"   😜

SAY! This one's pretty good, Mr.G.

But for MY money, the earlier mentioned "Chinaman" joke that Nicholson tells in the movie ChinaTOWN is STILL a little bit funnier.

Of course then again, this COULD be because Jack's comic timing in that one is so damn good!

(...okay, and now were we here?...oh yeah..."wokeness"...as you can maybe tell here, I don't let that sort'a thing affect me much...and even THOUGH there's NO way in HELL I'd PERSONALLY tell EITHER one of 'em NOW days!)  ;)

LOL

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1 hour ago, Mr. Gorman said:

@VAUTRIN:  Here's an old joke I remember reading probably 30 years ago.  Or more.

A young college boy comes home for Winter Vacation and his dad asks him how things are going. 

The college boy says to his Dad "I think my roommate is turning queer!"

Dad says "What makes you think that, Son?" 

The son answers "Well, he's started closing his eyes every time I kiss him!"   😜

Just goes to show that not everybody should go  to  college.    🤠

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15 hours ago, LsDoorMat said:

How do you know there is no copyright problem? Because the Warner Archive has it in print. Because MGM made this film and Warner Brothers owns it.

How do you know any of this?  Even if what you say is so, that does not mean TCM has access to it.

15 hours ago, LsDoorMat said:

How do you know there was even a decision not to show it? - Easiest question.  Because they are NOT showing it at the same average rate that they did the first 24 years TCM was on the air.

The only thing you can know for sure is that if TCM shows a movie, there was a definite decision to show it.  If a movie doesn't air, you cannot know what brought that about unless you have direct knowledge of the process.

15 hours ago, LsDoorMat said:

Does it have to be shown? If so why? Maybe it is not a good movie - I really don't care for the late 30s/early 40s MGM musicals. But Mickey Rooney has always been a staple of TCM programming, and TCM shows all of his other MGM films. Funny they should just start NOT showing this one. 

You have checked all of Mr. Rooney's MGM movies and verified that they are being shown the same as they were in the past?

15 hours ago, LsDoorMat said:

And surely you don't think TCM programmers just take a look around the vault and say, Hmmmm what should we show next month? Like they are picking out something to watch on Movie Night? There is probably software used that shows the last time films were shown.

I don't know how the programming is done,  Do you have direct knowledge?  

You are drawing a false conclusion that a change in the airing of the movie and its content are causally related.  As I said, there are other movies that have not been shown in a long time that do not have that content.  It is much simpler to conclude that the reason, or reasons, the movie has not been shown is due to the same ones that have led to those movies not being shown.

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17 hours ago, slaytonf said:

How do you know any of this?  Even if what you say is so, that does not mean TCM has access to it.

The only thing you can know for sure is that if TCM shows a movie, there was a definite decision to show it.  If a movie doesn't air, you cannot know what brought that about unless you have direct knowledge of the process.

You have checked all of Mr. Rooney's MGM movies and verified that they are being shown the same as they were in the past?

I don't know how the programming is done,  Do you have direct knowledge?  

You are drawing a false conclusion that a change in the airing of the movie and its content are causally related.  As I said, there are other movies that have not been shown in a long time that do not have that content.  It is much simpler to conclude that the reason, or reasons, the movie has not been shown is due to the same ones that have led to those movies not being shown.

You seem bound and determined to believe it is nothing but a coincidence that movies are not shown that TCM might deem offensive, and I don't have time to embark on a research project on that subject. But here is another Mickey Rooney movie, same age, same genre as Babes on Broadway, same director (Busby Berkeley), same costar (Judy Garland) - Strike up the Band. Last two times shown - August and April 2021. Total times shown - 47 times = Shown about every seven months since TCM's inception. So that film still gets regular airplay with a similar imdb rating . Babes On Broadway = 6.8 Strike Up the Band = 7.1.  The difference - no blackface in Strike Up The Band.

A case you'd even have to admit is because of the film's offensive content - Wonder Bar (1934) Last two times shown = June 2007 (at 3AM),  November 2004. Shown a total of eleven times. Thus it was shown ten times the first ten years TCM was on the air but has not aired in over fourteen years. It has the infamous "Goin to Heaven on A Mule" number. 

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TCM ought to show WONDER BAR because we see clips of it every time the "Blackface Segment" airs.  Like it did earlier this evening.  I'd like to see the whole movie now that TCM has interested me in it.   TCM has put out the bait!  

ALSO:  I wonder if Ragamuffin White Professor Guy from that segment has done got hisself a haircut since that segment was filmed?       

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9 hours ago, Mr. Gorman said:

I have little use for the 'modern' Disney company. 

Me too. Talk about over-saturation: bananas in the grocery store with the new Disney movie's charactors stickers all over them? I'm seeing a plethora of Disney charactor toys in the Dollar Store too. Give it a rest.

6 hours ago, slaytonf said:

the reason, or reasons, the movie has not been shown is due to the same ones that have led to those movies not being shown.

giphy.gif

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On 11/14/2021 at 11:16 AM, KingoGondo said:

TCM has mistakenly shown edited prints before--I remember this happening to The Outfit (and films in the wrong aspect ratio many times). They showed The Bad News Bears (with a little kid dropping N-bombs) a few weeks ago. But an even better test will be coming up this Friday, since Blazing Saddles is on at midnight ET.

I didn't see it on TCM that night so I don't know how it was handled(if at all).   But seeing as to how the dialog about it went, I started recalling  that when it came out, it was a favorite of a particular group of my co-workers.  And what, in this case, was so "particular" about that group?  It was that they were all black.  And the use of that word(the "N" word of course) in the context of the movie didn't seem to offend them at all.  So it would seem if TCM edited(read: censored) it at all it would be because someone at TCM might have been offended, and figured because THEY were offended, then the TCM audience SHOULD be offended, and not because they were at all.  I see it as a case where some people at the network are presuming to do OUR thinking for us.

Sepiatone

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11 hours ago, LsDoorMat said:

You seem bound and determined to refuse to believe it is nothing but a coincidence that movies are not shown that TCM might deem offensive, and I don't have time to embark on a research project on that subject. But here is another Mickey Rooney movie, same age, same genre as Babes on Broadway, same director (Busby Berkeley), same costar (Judy Garland) - Strike up the Band. Last two times shown - August and April 2021. Total times shown - 47 times = Shown about every seven months since TCM's inception. So that film still gets regular airplay with a similar imdb rating . Babes On Broadway = 6.8 Strike Up the Band = 7.1.  The difference - no blackface in Strike Up The Band.

A case you'd even have to admit is because of the film's offensive content - Wonder Bar (1934) Last two times shown = June 2007 (at 3AM),  November 2004. Shown a total of eleven times. Thus it was shown ten times the first ten years TCM was on the air but has not aired in over fourteen years. It has the infamous "Goin to Heaven on A Mule" number. 

The reduced showing of certain films (e.g. those which contain a blackface scene),  could indeed be due to some human judgement but that doesn't mean that TCM (a company),  has deemed the film offensive;  It could be because certain individuals responsible for the programming have decided to reduce the showing of these films without specific guidance \ approval from TCM management.    (yea, rouge programmer!).

 My bottom line is that I wish TCM would issue some type of corporate statement but I can see why they don't;    Such a statement is likely to just upset more individuals (on both \ either "side" of this),   and in this way being vague is a sound strategy in these diverse times.

 

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General Question:

If the company with the owner-ship rights to a film decides to only lease "cleaned-up" versions of a said film,   should TCM and any other network that wishes to show films "uncut" (as close to original theatrical release a digitally  possible),   even show the film?   

OR should TCM show it but add a disclaimer:  this would be a  reverse-disclaimer;     instead of "this films has a blackface scene" it would be something like:  "this film use to have a blackface scene but that scene was removed by the copyright holder and this was the only version TCM could obtain".

 

 

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I don't think it should be an 'OR' but rather an 'IF'

They can show whatever they want, but IF they show an edited version, they should inform the viewer just how other stations are now forced to show an "edited for content and time" notice

They certainly didn't before that French Connection showing, which I find odd since every other network would have. It makes me think that they were just hoping no one would notice. 

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3 hours ago, jvernet said:

I don't think it should be an 'OR' but rather an 'IF'

They can show whatever they want, but IF they show an edited version, they should inform the viewer just how other stations are now forced to show an "edited for content and time" notice

They certainly didn't before that French Connection showing, which I find odd since every other network would have. It makes me think that they were just hoping no one would notice. 

I can agree with this;   that TCM should show the film (verses NOT showing a film at all),   but place that disclaimer that the copyright holder "edited the firm for content".

As for the recent French Connection showing:    I wonder if TCM's programmers were even aware of what version they were getting when they leased this film.   Historically TCM's programmers have been somewhat clueless in this regards:  E.g.   stating a film's running time in their pre-showing schedule,  but then actually showing a version with a different running time (and thus  different version) or with Mata Hari showing the post-production code MGM release of the film  instead of the pre-code release of the film  (in this case both versions are "official" MGM releases so there is bound to be confusion when something like that occurs).

      

 

 

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TCM is showing a lot more movies from more recent times than before.  They are also trying to show the old "classic" movies that most of us like so much.  In addition, they are showing more foreign movies and so forth.

So, perhaps they decided that some movies just were not worth showing as much or at all anymore so they could still show older classics and newer to become classics as well as just different movies.

Until someone produces a memo from whoever is in charge saying TCM will no longer show___________, nobody knows.

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@JAMES AND THY JAZZY GUITAR:  Just like recently when TCM was scheduled to air HORROR HOTEL (1960-UK) . . . but what TCM actually showed was the original British version under "THE CITY OF THE DEAD" title which runs some 2 minutes seconds longer than the U.S. 'cut' (with its "Horror Hotel" re-title). 

There certainly is the possibility TCM may not have known this version they aired of FRENCH CONNECTION had that short bit edited out. 

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I'm going to take this in baby steps over the next 24 hours or so, hopefully in no more than four seperate posts rather than one big one, because I lack the mental energy, and no one wants to read a post that long, anyway. Let's start with the easy stuff to talk about. I'm glad the argument between SlaytonF and ... everybody else? ... about why certain movies are no longer being shown on TCM has steered the focus of this thread away from let's punch SEWhite2000 in the face some more.  Personally, I'm on the side that believes some content decisions have been made by some humans at some level regarding the potential of some material being found offensive. I think the circumstancial evidence is pretty compelling in the context of a TCM message board thread argument, but would I want to be convicted for a death penalty crime on the basis of circumstancial evidence of similar strength? Then I would find said evidence pretty flimsy!

More about less pleasant things for me personally next time I post, hopefully.

 

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2 hours ago, JamesJazGuitar said:

I can agree with this;   that TCM should show the film (verses NOT showing a film at all),   but place that disclaimer that the copyright holder "edited the firm for content".

As for the recent French Connection showing:    I wonder if TCM's programmers were even aware of what version they were getting when they leased this film.   Historically TCM's programmers have been somewhat clueless in this regards:  E.g.   stating a film's running time in their pre-showing schedule,  but then actually showing a version with a different running time (and thus  different version) or with Mati Hari showing the post-production code MGM release of the film  instead of the pre-code release of the film  (in this case both versions are "official" MGM releases so there is bound to be confusion when something like that occurs).

      

 

 

It's also possible that the distributor of the film made the error and has it mismarked in their metadata.  I doubt TCM has the personnel to screen every film they get to make sure it matches what they expected.  There's probably an expectation on their part that they're getting what the distributor says they're getting, and they don't verify the details.

But whatever the cause, we'll never know and we're all just speculating.

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On 11/13/2021 at 11:18 PM, VikingHead2000 said:

Tonight I was watching “The French Connection” and to my surprise it was edited. The scene after Popeye is ready to leave the police precinct he calls his partner “a dumb ginney” and tells him not to trust “a n*****”. Yes, Popeye’s not a likable character, but why censor that scene? Being a longtime viewer of TCM, I’m really surprised that TCM is now censoring its films. What a joke! Unfortunately TCM has done what they’ve never said they would do. They’ve bent the knee to the social justice warriors. I thought, I’d never would say this but, TCM has gone woke. “The French Connection” is just the beginning of what’s to follow. I’m no longer a fan and viewer of what I used to love. Shame on you TCM. 

Way back in 2005 I saw a version of Reds on TCM that edited out some profanity. (This is different, I realize, from the word you mentioned was edited from The French Connection.)   I sent TCM a friendly email asking why the movie was edited and received this reply:  

Dear Viewer, Thank you for your comments. TCM does in fact have a policy of keeping the movies we play unedited (for both time and content...in fact, if the movie has a large amount of content issues, we won't play it). However, there are instances where the distribution companies have sent us different versions of the film we request, with certain parts already edited out or missing. I personally do not know why this happens, as the films come this way and TCM doesn't touch them. When we figure out they're edited, we usually send them back and request the full version, but sometimes one can slip through and make it on the network. Our viewers are really good at alerting us to this fact, and from there we investigate the problem and make the necessary changes. This is the case with the film REDS. TCM is currently looking into getting the full, unedited copy and running it again soon. I hope I was able to shed some light on the subject, as we are also disappointed any time we find out that these movies are being edited and aired. Thanks again for your comments and thanks for watching Turner Classic Movies. Best, TCM Viewer Relations

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I remember this airing of Reds, which I think I watched, being discussed on these threads before, possibly partially by you. I've also noticed the version of A River Runs through It that TCM infrequently airs dubs out use of the F-word by Brad Pitt and the guy playing his brother near the very end of the movie. It's been dubbed out every time I've watched it on TCM, which is maybe six times over a 20-year period.

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