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Tonight's Kay Francis intros... That was interesting...


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So Ben introduced the first Kay Francis movie. Without any mention from Ben, Karger introduced the next two.

Karger's wrap-up on the third film of the evening was edited down at the end indicating a switch in programming was made. Which seems likely since it was early enough for the fourth film to have wrap-arounds but didn't.

Not important, of course, but I found it kind of interesting as I'd never seen anything like this before.

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I didn't make it all the way through Raffles, the third film of the evening, but I did notice the change-up in hosts without mention or warning between the first and second movies. Thought about posting on here, but I was confused enough that I thought perhaps I'd made a mistake.

I can't cite a specific example, but I feel in my 21 years of watching TCM, somethng like this has probably happened before. I can say for sure I've seen a host give an intro for a movie before and then not be there for the outro.

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It had to have had something to do with a last-minute change in the schedule. Until relatively recently the 1931 Paramount movie GIRLS ABOUT TOWN featuring Kay Francis was on the schedule for Monday night, but was dropped and replaced, I think by TROUBLE IN PARADISE (which was just shown very recently). So apparently they didn't have the time to create the necessary new introductions and to get everything else updated.

Too bad, I was really looking forward to seeing GIRLS ABOUT TOWN.

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I was thrilled to see Ben do the initial intro about Kay Francis month.  When I realized her "night" was going to be Monday I thought:  "Why do they give Karger so many SOTMs?"  He really doesn't appear to have a clue about anything pre-1980 (Really?  Your favorite director is John Hughes?) and when he does intros about a classic star it is clear he is just reading what the prompter tells him to read. If there is a factual error in the copy as written (which happens more often than not) it never gets corrected by the likes of Karger.  My sense is that he has no depth of knowledge (or interest in) any studio system actor or director.  Any of the other 4 hosts would be better to intro a SOTM from the classic era.  Now . . . if he wants to intro Brat Pack films, that would be right up his alley.

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Dave Karger has a highly distinguished and successful career in the entertainment media business. He's infinitely more accomplished than I can ever dream of being. I think your reduction of him sells him way short.

An award-winning host, interviewer, and entertainment expert, Dave Karger has made over 170 live appearances on NBC's Today show and appears regularly as an expert and correspondent on E! and Access Hollywood. In 2015 Dave received the Publicists Guild Press Award honoring the year's outstanding entertainment journalist. In 2014 he was named one of OUT Magazine's "OUT 100," acknowledging the most influential people in the LGBT community. Dave has also been a guest host on Today, Access Hollywood Live, and Turner Classic Movies. From 2012 to 2016 Dave served as Chief Correspondent at Fandango, where he hosted the original video series "The Frontrunners" and "Weekend Ticket." "The Frontrunners" received a 2013 Webby Award nomination for Best Variety Series. Before that, Dave spent 17 years as a senior writer at Entertainment Weekly, where he wrote over 50 cover stories, on subjects including George Clooney, Angelina Jolie, Elton John, Taylor Swift, Johnny Depp, Denzel Washington, and Carrie Underwood. He also spearheaded Oscar coverage for the magazine and EW.com. In 2012 and 2013, Dave was the Academy's official red-carpet greeter on Oscar night, only the third person ever to hold that post. He also co-hosted the 2011 Oscars Digital Experience (produced by The Academy and ABC), which won the Primetime Emmy Award for Outstanding Creative Achievement in Interactive Media. He has served on the juries of the TriBeCa, Los Angeles, South By Southwest, and Florida Film Festivals. Dave graduated **** laude from Duke University.

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45 minutes ago, sewhite2000 said:

Dave Karger has a highly distinguished and successful career in the entertainment media business. He's infinitely more accomplished than I can ever dream of being. I think your reduction of him sells him way short.

An award-winning host, interviewer, and entertainment expert, Dave Karger has made over 170 live appearances on NBC's Today show and appears regularly as an expert and correspondent on E! and Access Hollywood. In 2015 Dave received the Publicists Guild Press Award honoring the year's outstanding entertainment journalist. In 2014 he was named one of OUT Magazine's "OUT 100," acknowledging the most influential people in the LGBT community. Dave has also been a guest host on Today, Access Hollywood Live, and Turner Classic Movies. From 2012 to 2016 Dave served as Chief Correspondent at Fandango, where he hosted the original video series "The Frontrunners" and "Weekend Ticket." "The Frontrunners" received a 2013 Webby Award nomination for Best Variety Series. Before that, Dave spent 17 years as a senior writer at Entertainment Weekly, where he wrote over 50 cover stories, on subjects including George Clooney, Angelina Jolie, Elton John, Taylor Swift, Johnny Depp, Denzel Washington, and Carrie Underwood. He also spearheaded Oscar coverage for the magazine and EW.com. In 2012 and 2013, Dave was the Academy's official red-carpet greeter on Oscar night, only the third person ever to hold that post. He also co-hosted the 2011 Oscars Digital Experience (produced by The Academy and ABC), which won the Primetime Emmy Award for Outstanding Creative Achievement in Interactive Media. He has served on the juries of the TriBeCa, Los Angeles, South By Southwest, and Florida Film Festivals. Dave graduated **** laude from Duke University.

Regardless, his depth of knowledge is definitely in more "contemporary" filmmaking.  He evinces no particular interest in "the classic era," i.e., the 1930's - 1950's.  Jacqueline Stewart is an expert in silents and has taught film history for years.  Eddie Muller is a film noir expert and also has interest in other classic era filmmakers and actors.  Alicia Malone clearly loves classic film, its actors and craftspeople.  Ben is from a Hollywood legacy family and, besides, has been intro'ing classic films for quite a while now.  Karger was  clearly hired to fill the never-ending TCM need to cultivate younger viewers since his experience is with more contemporary films and actors.  Look at your list above.  He may know Clooney, but he sure doesn't know Kay Francis.

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I get what you're saying, and you have something nice to say about Ben, which is extraordinarily rare for the TCM Message Boards, so I believe you're coming from a place of sincerity and that you're not filled with a consuming desire to tear down everyone else, as I find so common in online communities. Your Brat Pack reference probably set me off. Reminded me of the days when Tiffany Vazquez was being described as a teenager by everyone on here. I think Dave is a few years younger than me. It's not uncommon to be starry-eyed about the works from your youth. I admire John Hughes' movies, too. I liked the reasons he gave for liking Penny Serenade the other night, which I went into detail on in the I Just Watched thread. I think he's trying to be as good at this job as any other he's had, and if he's lacking in expertise in movies of a certain era, I have confidence he's endeavoring to correct that.

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3 hours ago, sewhite2000 said:

I get what you're saying, and you have something nice to say about Ben, which is extraordinarily rare for the TCM Message Boards, so I believe you're coming from a place of sincerity and that you're not filled with a consuming desire to tear down everyone else, as I find so common in online communities. Your Brat Pack reference probably set me off. Reminded me of the days when Tiffany Vazquez was being described as a teenager by everyone on here. I think Dave is a few years younger than me. It's not uncommon to be starry-eyed about the works from your youth. I admire John Hughes' movies, too. I liked the reasons he gave for liking Penny Serenade the other night, which I went into detail on in the I Just Watched thread. I think he's trying to be as good at this job as any other he's had, and if he's lacking in expertise in movies of a certain era, I have confidence he's endeavoring to correct that.

I'm a huge Ben fan (does that put me in the minority??) and while Karger is my least favorite host, I'm ok with all of them.  I just think he is the wrong host to be intro'ing SOTMs from the 1930's and 1940's since that is not his area of expertise or study.  If/when TCM loosens the pursestrings and starts making contemporary actors (Clooney, Streep, etc.)  SOTMs, then, I think he might be the perfect SOTM host.

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A minor point, but the Star of the Month is not always on Mondays as some may infer from the earlier post.  In fact, I suspect TCM moves it around based on who they want to be the host.

Here are the Stars of the Month and the day of the month it was on since January of 2021:

2021
01 - Miriam Hopkins, Thu.
02 - John Garfield, Tue.
03 - Doris Day, Mon.
04 - (31 Days of Oscar)
05 - Movie Roberts, Mon.
06 - Cyd Charisse, Tue.
07 - Elvis Presley, Thu.
08 - (Summer Under the Stars)
09 - Paul Robeson, Sun.
10 - Lucille Ball, Thu.
11 - Sydney Greenstreet, Thu.
12 - Ingrid Bergman, Wed.

2022
01 - Kay Francis, Mon.
02 - Henry Fonda, Tue.

For the 12 months that qualify from this list, the Star of the Month has been on Mondays only 3 times, which gives Dave Karger a 25% coverage.  If you count Alicia's hosting on Tuesdays, she has also covered SOTM 3 times (including next month), which leaves Ben to handle the other 6.

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On 1/4/2022 at 3:20 PM, cmovieviewer said:

A minor point, but the Star of the Month is not always on Mondays as some may infer from the earlier post.  In fact, I suspect TCM moves it around based on who they want to be the host.

Here are the Stars of the Month and the day of the month it was on since January of 2021:

2021
01 - Miriam Hopkins, Thu.
02 - John Garfield, Tue.
03 - Doris Day, Mon.
04 - (31 Days of Oscar)
05 - Movie Roberts, Mon.
06 - Cyd Charisse, Tue.
07 - Elvis Presley, Thu.
08 - (Summer Under the Stars)
09 - Paul Robeson, Sun.
10 - Lucille Ball, Thu.
11 - Sydney Greenstreet, Thu.
12 - Ingrid Bergman, Wed.

2022
01 - Kay Francis, Mon.
02 - Henry Fonda, Tue.

For the 12 months that qualify from this list, the Star of the Month has been on Mondays only 3 times, which gives Dave Karger a 25% coverage.  If you count Alicia's hosting on Tuesdays, she has also covered SOTM 3 times (including next month), which leaves Ben to handle the other 6.

Never said SOTMs were "always" on Monday.  Merely said that I'd prefer one of the other hosts handle 1930's - 1940's actor SOTMs (and "Salutes") because it seems clear to me that the classic era is not one in which Karger has much interest or depth of knowledge.  After all, when asked which director had an impact on his interest in films, he sure didn't say John Ford or Michael Curtiz or even Alfred Hitchcock. He said John Hughes.  I get it.  He's younger than Ben, Jacqueline or Eddie and that impacts the films/actors/directors he cares about. So, play to his strengths and interests and we'll all be happier.  When he talks about somebody like Florence Rice (a recent Monday night star salute) it's clear he hasn't a clue who she was or what she did.  He's just reading off the prompter.

Obviously they alter the day of the week for the SOTM throughout the year  -- I'm betting Ben gets "first dibs" on selecting which stars he gets to intro.  I just think Karger would be better off doing more contemporary star salutes . . . as I said . . . merely my opinion.

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On 1/4/2022 at 5:50 AM, lydecker said:

I was thrilled to see Ben do the initial intro about Kay Francis month.  When I realized her "night" was going to be Monday I thought:  "Why do they give Karger so many SOTMs?"  He really doesn't appear to have a clue about anything pre-1980 (Really?  Your favorite director is John Hughes?) and when he does intros about a classic star it is clear he is just reading what the prompter tells him to read. If there is a factual error in the copy as written (which happens more often than not) it never gets corrected by the likes of Karger.  My sense is that he has no depth of knowledge (or interest in) any studio system actor or director.  Any of the other 4 hosts would be better to intro a SOTM from the classic era.  Now . . . if he wants to intro Brat Pack films, that would be right up his alley.

My mind is still boggling at the thought that Dave Karger would name John Hughes as his favorite director. When a family member was in her early teens, she announced that the Twilight vampire movie was the greatest film ever made, and sure, that was understandable. She's going to see many more movies in her lifetime.

John Hughes directed only eight films, and I have seen only two, Ferris Bueller's Day Off, which I loathe, and Sixteen Candles, which I would not want to see again but do not actually loathe. Molly Ringwald was cute, and Anthony Michael Hall would go on to give a good performance in a film I like a lot, Six Degrees of Separation. What's refreshing about Karger's comment is how it breaks stereotypes: 1) the stereotype that gay men have good taste and 2) the stereotype that gay men only like stuff like Barbra Streisand in Funny Girl.

Hughes is as mainstream a director as I can imagine. He is skillful at writing stuff that a large mainstream audience will respond to and find funny. He chooses high school as his topic, something almost everyone has been subjected to, and cleverly makes the main characters outsiders yet not too far away from the in-group--Ringwald as a cute girl not yet in the inner circle of popular girls and Hall as the nerdy underclassman who in a few years might be successful enough to employ all the jocks who play pranks on him now. Hughes ruthlessly makes fun of those who are genuinely outsiders: the Korean exchange student and the girl in a neck brace. Her attempt to drink from a water fountain is apparently so side-splittingly hilarious that Hughes shows us similar scenes twice.

Now there is no reason that a gay man can't be part of the mainstream audience and no reason that a gay man may not identify with the genuine outsiders in a film--in our society today gay men need not, in some parts of the country, be outsiders. I do hope that Karger will eventually discover better directors than John Hughes. After all, there are hundreds of them.

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1 hour ago, King Rat said:

My mind is still boggling at the thought that Dave Karger would name John Hughes as his favorite director.

The way I tend to process such statement is that others have a different definition of what "favorite" means to them.

 

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2 hours ago, King Rat said:

I do hope that Karger will eventually discover better directors than John Hughes. After all, there are hundreds of them.

Maybe if he actually watches some of those Kay Francis movies he is introducing, he just may discover one of those better directors.

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On 1/4/2022 at 7:38 AM, lydecker said:

Regardless, his depth of knowledge is definitely in more "contemporary" filmmaking.  He evinces no particular interest in "the classic era," i.e., the 1930's - 1950's.

I still laugh about his intro of 12 Angry Men, starring Ed Begley JR.

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On 1/4/2022 at 1:25 AM, yanceycravat said:

So Ben introduced the first Kay Francis movie. Without any mention from Ben, Karger introduced the next two.

Karger's wrap-up on the third film of the evening was edited down at the end indicating a switch in programming was made. Which seems likely since it was early enough for the fourth film to have wrap-arounds but didn't.

Not important, of course, but I found it kind of interesting as I'd never seen anything like this before.

Yes, I noticed that too. VERY jarring. Wonder why the Mank didnt do all the wrap arounds. And they usualy do FOUR wraparounds, not three. Unless there's a long movie scheduled.

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On 1/4/2022 at 7:07 AM, musicalnovelty said:

It had to have had something to do with a last-minute change in the schedule. Until relatively recently the 1931 Paramount movie GIRLS ABOUT TOWN featuring Kay Francis was on the schedule for Monday night, but was dropped and replaced, I think by TROUBLE IN PARADISE (which was just shown very recently). So apparently they didn't have the time to create the necessary new introductions and to get everything else updated.

Too bad, I was really looking forward to seeing GIRLS ABOUT TOWN.

SH-T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was SO excited to see Girls About Town on the schedule! (at least in the SOTM article) but when checking the schedule later I didnt' see it anywhere! WTH???????  TCM has never shown it before and I've been dying to see it for decades! (Paramount) IT FIGURES. So P-SSED! :(

THANKS, UNIVERSAL! EAT SH-T AND DIE!!!!!!!!!!

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On 1/4/2022 at 9:45 AM, sewhite2000 said:

Dave Karger has a highly distinguished and successful career in the entertainment media business. He's infinitely more accomplished than I can ever dream of being. I think your reduction of him sells him way short.

An award-winning host, interviewer, and entertainment expert, Dave Karger has made over 170 live appearances on NBC's Today show and appears regularly as an expert and correspondent on E! and Access Hollywood. In 2015 Dave received the Publicists Guild Press Award honoring the year's outstanding entertainment journalist. In 2014 he was named one of OUT Magazine's "OUT 100," acknowledging the most influential people in the LGBT community. Dave has also been a guest host on Today, Access Hollywood Live, and Turner Classic Movies. From 2012 to 2016 Dave served as Chief Correspondent at Fandango, where he hosted the original video series "The Frontrunners" and "Weekend Ticket." "The Frontrunners" received a 2013 Webby Award nomination for Best Variety Series. Before that, Dave spent 17 years as a senior writer at Entertainment Weekly, where he wrote over 50 cover stories, on subjects including George Clooney, Angelina Jolie, Elton John, Taylor Swift, Johnny Depp, Denzel Washington, and Carrie Underwood. He also spearheaded Oscar coverage for the magazine and EW.com. In 2012 and 2013, Dave was the Academy's official red-carpet greeter on Oscar night, only the third person ever to hold that post. He also co-hosted the 2011 Oscars Digital Experience (produced by The Academy and ABC), which won the Primetime Emmy Award for Outstanding Creative Achievement in Interactive Media. He has served on the juries of the TriBeCa, Los Angeles, South By Southwest, and Florida Film Festivals. Dave graduated **** laude from Duke University.

Yes, he is quite knowledgeable about current Hollywood and current films, but his knowledge of classic films is limited. I don't mind him as a host though. Hopefully he's playing catch up and researching/watching more older films.

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On 1/4/2022 at 3:20 PM, cmovieviewer said:

A minor point, but the Star of the Month is not always on Mondays as some may infer from the earlier post.  In fact, I suspect TCM moves it around based on who they want to be the host.

Here are the Stars of the Month and the day of the month it was on since January of 2021:

2021
01 - Miriam Hopkins, Thu.
02 - John Garfield, Tue.
03 - Doris Day, Mon.
04 - (31 Days of Oscar)
05 - Movie Roberts, Mon.
06 - Cyd Charisse, Tue.
07 - Elvis Presley, Thu.
08 - (Summer Under the Stars)
09 - Paul Robeson, Sun.
10 - Lucille Ball, Thu.
11 - Sydney Greenstreet, Thu.
12 - Ingrid Bergman, Wed.

2022
01 - Kay Francis, Mon.
02 - Henry Fonda, Tue.

For the 12 months that qualify from this list, the Star of the Month has been on Mondays only 3 times, which gives Dave Karger a 25% coverage.  If you count Alicia's hosting on Tuesdays, she has also covered SOTM 3 times (including next month), which leaves Ben to handle the other 6.

I wish they had put Kay on another day. Because of MLK Day they are skipping a week for her, thus cramming 10-12 films on the other nights to make up for it! Ok if you dont work or you dont mind getting up early to watch into the next afternoon! I don't like this.

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12 minutes ago, nakano said:

you can see the movie free at the library of congress on line but you do not accept pm so check it there 

Thanks.  I didnt know this. Is my mail box full?

I may not make it till the day TCM shows it if ever!

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1 hour ago, Hibi said:

SH-T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was SO excited to see Girls About Town on the schedule! (at least in the SOTM article) but when checking the schedule later I didnt' see it anywhere! WTH???????  TCM has never shown it before and I've been dying to see it for decades! (Paramount) IT FIGURES. So P-SSED! :(

THANKS, UNIVERSAL! EAT SH-T AND DIE!!!!!!!!!!

Here you go. Although the sound seems odd, it is watchable.

 

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