cigarjoe Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 Quote Using my transactive-transformo mogogo on the mojo noir machine, I can turn any film into a noir. I'm sure that transactive-transformo mogogo worked for the minions in Hayes office also. ? The connotation of “film noir,” according to Film Noir In France: Before The Liberation is “unambiguously negative” and is described by the French and American critics in a litany that contains, “doomed to failure,” “long poems of discouragement,” “lament for the living,” “immoral and demoralizing film,” “indecent, immoral, sacrilegious,” full of “debauchery and crime” whose “effect on the public could only be harmful.” Nobody in the US started out to make a Film Noir, it really can't be pigeonholed into any set recipe, for me it's more a films overall ambience that clicks. That Film Noir visual style (that got U.S. Film Noir re-noticed in the first place by the French Critics after WWII), combined with dark story lines that have obsessed or alienated individuals usually tips the scales to inclusion for me. It may not click for you. Again what makes a Noir/Neo Noir is an individual internal factor. It's subjectivity. Noir is in all of us. Think of us all as having an internal tuning fork, these tuning forks are forged by our life experiences which are all unique. When we watch these films their degree of Noir-ness resonates with us differently, so we either "tune" to them or we don't. The amount of "tuning" (I'm appropriating this term from the Neo Noir Dark City (1998)) to certain films will vary between us all also." There are a films that have the Noir-ish stories but not the stylistics those films I call NIPOs, Noir In Plot Only. I look at those as just mostly part of the Crime Genre films. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vautrin Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 9 hours ago, cigarjoe said: I'm sure that transactive-transformo mogogo worked for the minions in Hayes office also. ? The connotation of “film noir,” according to Film Noir In France: Before The Liberation is “unambiguously negative” and is described by the French and American critics in a litany that contains, “doomed to failure,” “long poems of discouragement,” “lament for the living,” “immoral and demoralizing film,” “indecent, immoral, sacrilegious,” full of “debauchery and crime” whose “effect on the public could only be harmful.” Nobody in the US started out to make a Film Noir, it really can't be pigeonholed into any set recipe, for me it's more a films overall ambience that clicks. That Film Noir visual style (that got U.S. Film Noir re-noticed in the first place by the French Critics after WWII), combined with dark story lines that have obsessed or alienated individuals usually tips the scales to inclusion for me. It may not click for you. Again what makes a Noir/Neo Noir is an individual internal factor. It's subjectivity. Noir is in all of us. Think of us all as having an internal tuning fork, these tuning forks are forged by our life experiences which are all unique. When we watch these films their degree of Noir-ness resonates with us differently, so we either "tune" to them or we don't. The amount of "tuning" (I'm appropriating this term from the Neo Noir Dark City (1998)) to certain films will vary between us all also." There are a films that have the Noir-ish stories but not the stylistics those films I call NIPOs, Noir In Plot Only. I look at those as just mostly part of the Crime Genre films. Well, the Hays Office was interested in making sure that naughty things and "immorality" didn't make an appearance on the screen. That doesn't have much to do with the is it or ain't it a noir argument. I agree it's highly subjective as to what each individual sees as a noir, though I guess there is a rough consensus on the most famous examples of noir. As much as I enjoy them, I've always thought many were on the simplistic side, presenting a rather one-sided view of life. They are the negative opposite of the simplistic positive view of many studio era films, especially the ain't life wonderful musicals. For modern middle class audiences it's a bit of cinematic slumming, viewing an environment that most people wouldn't want to live in in real life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesJazGuitar Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 3 hours ago, Vautrin said: As much as I enjoy them, I've always thought many were on the simplistic side, presenting a rather one-sided view of life. Interesting. I have always viewed noir films as being more nuanced and presenting a more complex view of life. E.g. basically decent folks that, due to desires (sexual, greed, power), go over to the dark side. Now basic crime drama are rather one-sided and therefore not very 'noir'. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vautrin Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 4 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said: Interesting. I have always viewed noir films as being more nuanced and presenting a more complex view of life. E.g. basically decent folks that, due to desires (sexual, greed, power), go over to the dark side. Now basic crime drama are rather one-sided and therefore not very 'noir'. I doubt very few average people go over to the dark side or that they are alienated and the victims of fate, though it happens on occasion. But to think that this is the norm doesn't make much sense to me. Of course it makes for good entertainment and folks can watch all the angst and mayhem from the comfort of their cozy living rooms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesJazGuitar Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 14 hours ago, Vautrin said: I doubt very few average people go over to the dark side or that they are alienated and the victims of fate, though it happens on occasion. But to think that this is the norm doesn't make much sense to me. Of course it makes for good entertainment and folks can watch all the angst and mayhem from the comfort of their cozy living rooms. While the situations most noir protagonist are involved in are unlikely to happen in real-life the reaction of the protagonist is often very realistic. E.g. Jeff in Out of the Past; Joe in Side Street, etc... Maybe 'go over to the dark side' was overstated since I meant that they do things that are 'wrong', and they know they are, but they are still basically decent folks. (Jeff lying to a gangster because he falls in love, or Joe taking money that doesn't belong to him, but instead illegal mob cash, because he is poor and his wife is pregnant). Most of my favorite noirs feature such protagonist with the main plot line focused on if they can get back on the up-and-up (Jeff of course fails but Joe is successful). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vautrin Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 4 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said: While the situations most noir protagonist are involved in are unlikely to happen in real-life the reaction of the protagonist is often very realistic. E.g. Jeff in Out of the Past; Joe in Side Street, etc... Maybe 'go over to the dark side' was overstated since I meant that they do things that are 'wrong', and they know they are, but they are still basically decent folks. (Jeff lying to a gangster because he falls in love, or Joe taking money that doesn't belong to him, but instead illegal mob cash, because he is poor and his wife is pregnant). Most of my favorite noirs feature such protagonist with the main plot line focused on if they can get back on the up-and-up (Jeff of course fails but Joe is successful). Some of them try to do the right thing, even if it doesn't always work out that way. If I was Jeff in OOTP I would have shot Greer, framed the already conveniently dead Douglas and gone back to that sweet small-town girl, but that wouldn't be very noirish. Funny how two guys who are trying to hide out, Jeff and Swede in The Killers, work as gas station attendants. Good thinking boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesJazGuitar Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 17 minutes ago, Vautrin said: Some of them try to do the right thing, even if it doesn't always work out that way. If I was Jeff in OOTP I would have shot Greer, framed the already conveniently dead Douglas and gone back to that sweet small-town girl, but that wouldn't be very noirish. Funny how two guys who are trying to hide out, Jeff and Swede in The Killers, work as gas station attendants. Good thinking boys. Douglas' lawyer had a notarized letter from Greer that indicated that Jeff (Mitchum), was the one that had killed his partner as well as his fingerprints all over the place of the dead accountant. So Jeff could have killed Greer but he would have still been in major legal trouble for crimes he didn't commit. This is why the book was titled Build My Gallows High. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vautrin Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 6 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said: Douglas' lawyer had a notarized letter from Greer that indicated that Jeff (Mitchum), was the one that had killed his partner as well as his fingerprints all over the place of the dead accountant. So Jeff could have killed Greer but he would have still been in major legal trouble for crimes he didn't commit. This is why the book was titled Build My Gallows High. Too bad Jeff was poor. A good lawyer would have had little trouble exposing Greer's habitual lying and showing that her notarized letter wasn't worth the paper it was written on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LornaHansonForbes Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 i was a little surprised to see this week's selection for NOIR ALLEY- THE DAMNED DON'T CRY (1950) It's a CRAWFORD flick I've seen once or twice maybe, can't remember the name of the character she plays in it for the life of me though.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hibi Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 1 hour ago, LornaHansonForbes said: i was a little surprised to see this week's selection for NOIR ALLEY- THE DAMNED DON'T CRY (1950) It's a CRAWFORD flick I've seen once or twice maybe, can't remember the name of the character she plays in it for the life of me though.... LOL, Yeah, right!!!!!! Havent seen this in awhile, but am looking forward to Eddie's comments, and will watch it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LornaHansonForbes Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 17 minutes ago, Hibi said: LOL, Yeah, right!!!!!! Havent seen this in awhile, but am looking forward to Eddie's comments, and will watch it. and I as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LornaHansonForbes Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 i own two copies of it on DVD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hibi Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 LOL. TWO??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LornaHansonForbes Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Just now, Hibi said: LOL. TWO??? Scratched the first one all the Hell up. Found second copy in used bookstore near Raleigh. Should get rid of first one, but it would be like throwing out The American Flag or The Bible. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hibi Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 LOL. Lucky find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LornaHansonForbes Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 17 minutes ago, Hibi said: LOL. Lucky find. it really was. It was like $6.00. I have good luck in used bookstores in the Raleigh area, also got THE WOLF MAN LEGACY COLLECTION and ALL THAT HEAVEN ALLOWS on criterion there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hibi Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 I need to start looking.......I never think of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LornaHansonForbes Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 1 minute ago, Hibi said: I need to start looking.......I never think of it. sadly, if you're outside of a big city- and often one with a college- a good used bookstore is a real rarity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hibi Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 They have them here. I need to get out more. LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LornaHansonForbes Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hibi Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 LOL. Now I'm all revved up for Joan! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LornaHansonForbes Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 THE DAMNED DON'T CRY also has a great score by RAY HEINDORF, composed for the film (I think), which is a step up from FLAMINGO ROAD, where they borrowed the score from an earlier WB juvenile crime picture. as I recall it, FLAMINGO ROAD performed surprisingly well at the Box Office, so all the stops were pulled out for THE DAMNED DON'T CRY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hibi Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 What was Joan's name before the society dame transformation? (I dont remember) Did she even have one? (LOL). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LsDoorMat Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 5 minutes ago, Hibi said: What was Joan's name before the society dame transformation? (I dont remember) Did she even have one? (LOL). Ethel Whitehead. I think we can all see why one of our favorite posters did not pick that nom de plume! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hibi Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 17 minutes ago, calvinnme said: Ethel Whitehead. I think we can all see why one of our favorite posters did not pick that nom de plume! LMREO! Now HOW could I forget that one????? Oddly, I always remembered the Lorna one, even before Lorna picked it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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