Noir Alley

[King Rat]

18 hours ago, Isa said:

Eddie Mueller, no problem whatsoever with subtitles. Love foreign movies of any genre and the only way to watch them is with subtitles. Please keep them coming. I can't thank you enough for them. One Clouzot's movie I would love to see is MANON, but it seems to be unavailable anywhere.

Look for Manon on YouTube or on one of those websites that show films they don't actually have the rights to. I saw Manon on a website that no longer exists. It's as dark as The Wages of Fear, and I thought it was great.

 

1 hour ago, Athos said:

I loved The Turning Point. This is a movie I have wanted to see and requested through a previous TCM Programming Challenge, so I was thrilled to see it selected for Noir Alley. Great script from Warren Duff full of many intertwining parts and sarcastic dialogue. Wonderful cast with excellence all around. I especially want to highlight Tom Tully in his scenes with William Holden.  I loved the location shooting in this film. The entire ending sequence at the Olympic Auditorium was extremely well done and made the film for me. 

Terrific selection. Hope we can find more underseen films like this one to show in the future.

I liked The Turning Point a lot, too, and was also very impressed by Tom Tully's scenes. An even better performance than the one he got an Oscar nom for (The Caine Mutiny). Lots of location shots in 1950s LA, and I was not prepared for the ending. Excellent set designs, in addition to all the other fine qualities.

[Dargo]

What I wanna know is when did L.A. become "a midwestern city" and as O'Brien referred to it at one point in this film?

Yeah, you got it. This is a rhetorical question, alright.

I'll bet William Parker, L.A.'s police chief and many other Los Angeles city fathers at that time didn't want their town being shown in a bad light and so probably pressured Paramount to remove any specific references to their city and thus giving the suggestion that it was set in some generic American big city.

(...just wish Eddie would've mentioned something about this in his wraparound in order to confirm this and instead of just mentioning how wonderful the shots were of a now much changed Downtown L.A. than what it was the year I was born there and when this movie was filmed...yep, THAT'S right, I'll be turnin' The Big Seven-O next month, folks!) 

[King Rat]

1 hour ago, Dargo said:

What I wanna know is when did L.A. become "a midwestern city" and as O'Brien referred to it at one point in this film?

Yeah, you got it. This is a rhetorical question, alright.

I'll bet William Parker, L.A.'s police chief and many other Los Angeles city fathers at that time didn't want their town being shown in a bad light and so probably pressured Paramount to remove any specific references to their city and thus giving the suggestion that it was set in some generic American big city.

(...just wish Eddie would've mentioned something about this in his wraparound in order to confirm this and instead of just mentioning how wonderful the shots were a now much changed Downtown L.A. than what it was the year I was born there and when this movie was filmed...yep, THAT'S right, I'll be turnin' The Big Seven-O next month, folks!) 

That's what I was guessing, too, Dargo. It was a real "Say what???" moment.

[Hoganman1]

10 hours ago, Dargo said:

 

(.....yep, THAT'S right, I'll be turnin' The Big Seven-O next month, folks!) 

Welcome to this side of 70, Dargo. A friend of mine once said " it was better being in your 20s in the 70s than being in your 70s in the 20s". Still, it's not that bad. It's good still being on the top side of the grass. 

[Hibi]

On 2/4/2022 at 1:17 AM, King Rat said:

If Down Three Dark Streets is on the app, I recommend it to fans of docu-noir or those who like scenes shot on location in 50s LA, including a big scene at the Hollywood sign, or fans of Broderick Crawford, Ruth Roman, Marisa Pavan, Claude Akins, Casey Adams (anyone need a little helping of smarm and sleaze?) or anyone wanting to see Martha Hyer in a laugh-out-loud outfit with pouffy fur sleeves. Capably directed by Arnold Laven, with stylish cinematography by Joseph Biroc. Some good character actors, too.

Yes, really liked this film. And I guessed who the villain was! (since its an actor I can't stand!)

[Hibi]

21 hours ago, midwestan said:

I also noticed Russell Johnson (the Professor from 'Gilligan's Island') as the trigger man on the truck bed during the confusion scene where Tom Tully 'buys it'.

I thought that was Robert Bray?

[Hibi]

15 hours ago, Athos said:

I loved The Turning Point. This is a movie I have wanted to see and requested through a previous TCM Programming Challenge, so I was thrilled to see it selected for Noir Alley. Great script from Warren Duff full of many intertwining parts and sarcastic dialogue. Wonderful cast with excellence all around. I especially want to highlight Tom Tully in his scenes with William Holden.  I loved the location shooting in this film. The entire ending sequence at the Olympic Auditorium was extremely well done and made the film for me. 

Terrific selection. Hope we can find more underseen films like this one to show in the future.

Agree. Really liked it and surprised I'd never heard of it before. Glad Paramount went with the downbeat ending. (that surprised me, wasn't expecting that especially that actor) Great cast. And a good role for Alexis Smith, who usually was cast in bland second lead roles.

Loved all the great LA locations, esp. around Bunker Hill.

[Hibi]

13 hours ago, King Rat said:

Look for Manon on YouTube or on one of those websites that show films they don't actually have the rights to. I saw Manon on a website that no longer exists. It's as dark as The Wages of Fear, and I thought it was great.

 

I liked The Turning Point a lot, too, and was also very impressed by Tom Tully's scenes. An even better performance than the one he got an Oscar nom for (The Caine Mutiny). Lots of location shots in 1950s LA, and I was not prepared for the ending. Excellent set designs, in addition to all the other fine qualities.

Yes, I was not expecting that ending either.

[Fading Fast]

9 minutes ago, Hibi said:

Yes, I was not expecting that ending either.

Agreed, the ending was a surprise. So, does Alexis Smith get back together with O'Brien?

[Hibi]

30 minutes ago, mkahn22 said:

Agreed, the ending was a surprise. So, does Alexis Smith get back together with O'Brien?

It's left open, but I assume so.

[Hibi]

47 minutes ago, Hibi said:

I thought that was Robert Bray?

Apparently it was Johnson. He's listed in the imdb credits (unbilled in the movie) Think I saw Bray in another wknd film.

[LsDoorMat]

Didn't you think it odd that Holden's character had to do or suggest some really stupid things to cause the plot to move along?

SPOILERS AHEAD

He tells the crooked cop trying to reform to go ahead and give the mob the official documents that they want but to have them copied, something that the mob could easily verify. The mob then kills the cop. 

At the end, Holden knows the mob is probably out to get him, but he agrees to leave the safety of the police station for a public place, without  any backup or protection, to meet somebody he does not know and should not trust. Holden's character is predictably killed. 

I realize if everybody in a film makes the smart choice you have no story, but honestly! 

[ElCid]

6 minutes ago, LsDoorMat said:

Didn't you think it odd that Holden's character had to do or suggest some really stupid things to cause the plot to move along?

SPOILERS AHEAD

He tells the crooked cop trying to reform to go ahead and give the mob the official documents that they want but to have them copied, something that the mob could easily verify. The mob then kills the cop. 

At the end, Holden knows the mob is probably out to get him, but he agrees to leave the safety of the police station for a public place, without  any backup or protection, to meet somebody he does not know and should not trust. Holden's character is predictably killed. 

I realize if everybody in a film makes the smart choice you have no story, but honestly! 

I disagree.  How would the mob know the documents had been copied if the guy doing the copying had not told them?

Holden took several chances such as this.  Part of the reporters are immune scenario popular in many movies of the period.  Also, it shows his attitude of taking chances such as this.

I think it added to the story that two "sympathetic" characters both get killed.

[LsDoorMat]

1 hour ago, ElCid said:

I disagree.  How would the mob know the documents had been copied if the guy doing the copying had not told them?

Holden took several chances such as this.  Part of the reporters are immune scenario popular in many movies of the period.  Also, it shows his attitude of taking chances such as this.

I really am not an expert in the history of copy machines, but I remember the 60s enough that I know that Xerox copy machines were big news at the time. So I imagine in the early 50s the ones that existed were big cumbersome machines, probably expensive,  and were only available to a few office personnel,  as was the case here. So the cop had to ask somebody in charge of the documents to do the copying for him. Since the cop was on the take by the mob, he and Holden should have known that allowing an unknown party to become knowledgeable of what they were doing was a great risk. 

It's ironic that O'Brien's prosecutor character felt great guilt over the death of those people in the fire - probably something he could have not predicted because it took lots of nerve to blow up a building with a bunch of people living in it. But Holden didn't seem to really have a problem with the fact that his bad advice got his friend's dad killed. 

[nakano]

I had seen the film many years ago 45 years between screenings is a long time ! So it was all fresh and an excellent print, I agree with what most of the posters said,but what bothered me is the lack of sensibility of the characters,O'Brien's father gets  killed but no pain etc from O'Brien or anybody else ..Holden really found his path in Sunset Boulevard,and as Eddie mentionned Bill was on a winning streak (before he was mostly doing light forgettable comedies,)He was under contract with Columbia AND Paramount quite unusual at the time, Holden was at his best doing dramas as this one .

+

[misswonderly3]

1 hour ago, LsDoorMat said:

I really am not an expert in the history of copy machines, but I remember the 60s enough that I know that Xerox copy machines were big news at the time. So I imagine in the early 50s the ones that existed were big cumbersome machines, probably expensive,  and were only available to a few office personnel,  as was the case here. So the cop had to ask somebody in charge of the documents to do the copying for him. Since the cop was on the take by the mob, he and Holden should have known that allowing an unknown party to become knowledgeable of what they were doing was a great risk. 

It's ironic that O'Brien's prosecutor character felt great guilt over the death of those people in the fire - probably something he could have not predicted because it took lots of nerve to blow up a building with a bunch of people living in it. But Holden didn't seem to really have a problem with the fact that his bad advice got his friend's dad killed. 

 But to assume that every single employee at the police station was in league with the mobsters seems a bit much, even given the amount of police corruption that clearly existed.  I mean,  it's one thing for a crook to bribe a police officer on the beat,  it's another - pretty unlikely in my opinion -  to even bribe an admin person like the photostat guy.   I don't think Matt Conroy could have or would have been expected to think that even the photocopier  ( or gestetner, or whatever it was back then)  guy was working with the bad guys.  Also, it seems likely that Matt Conroy would have known the photostat technician,  and have no reason to distrust him.

As for Holden's character  "not really having a problem with the fact that his bad advice got his friend's dad killed",  sorry,  I again disagree.  There was one scene in particular that definitely showed McKibbon  feeling emotionally devastated by Matt's death.  I think that came across very clearly,  He felt terrible, guilt-striken,  and also at least partially responsible for what happened to Conroy's father.

 

[Dargo]

Not a big deal here, but I kind'a question Eddie's comment in his outro that it might have come as a surprise to the audiences at the time that Holden ends up in this film as he did, and considering as Eddie mentioned that just a couple of years earlier Sunset Blvd had put him on the Hollywood A-list.

I guess Eddie's thought process was that the audiences of that time might not expect any big star who's the lead in a movie ending up like that.

Ya see, I would've thought that audiences at the time having already watched Holden floating face down in a swimming pool and once again playing in this film what would become his stock-in-trade cynical type, would be more surprised that this film ended how it did and with essentially one of the "good guys" dying in it and regardless who the lead might have been in it.

But like I said, not a big deal here. Just a thought that crossed my mind.

(...btw, I've thought of a couple of other Holden flicks in which he meets the same fate...The Bridges at Toko-Ri and The Bridge on the River Kwai...anyone have any others that come to mind?)

 

[Fading Fast]

The one thing, to me, that said Holden is the STAR in this one is that he got the girl (maybe in the end, he just got it, but you know what I mean). 

It struck me as a pretty aggressive stealing of his childhood friend's fiancee (not just girlfriend). Alexis Smith was equally cavalier about it. 

It read very much to me as "we want to have sex, so we will and, then, we'll figure it out." Not a strange real-world thing, but aggressive for the "good guys" to do in an early '50s film.

 

[Dargo]

9 minutes ago, mkahn22 said:

The one thing, to me, that said Holden is the STAR in this one is that he got the girl (maybe in the end, he just got it, but you know what I mean). 

It struck me as a pretty aggressive stealing of his childhood friend's fiancee (not just girlfriend). Alexis Smith was equally cavalier about it. 

It read very much to me as "we want to have sex, so we will and, then, we'll figure it out." Not a strange real-world thing, but aggressive for the "good guys" to do in an early '50s film.

 

So in essence it sounds as if you're saying the narrative's justification for killing off Holden could've been due to the influence of 1950s morality into the tale, eh?

(...not a bad point, then)

[Hibi]

4 hours ago, LsDoorMat said:

Didn't you think it odd that Holden's character had to do or suggest some really stupid things to cause the plot to move along?

SPOILERS AHEAD

He tells the crooked cop trying to reform to go ahead and give the mob the official documents that they want but to have them copied, something that the mob could easily verify. The mob then kills the cop. 

At the end, Holden knows the mob is probably out to get him, but he agrees to leave the safety of the police station for a public place, without  any backup or protection, to meet somebody he does not know and should not trust. Holden's character is predictably killed. 

I realize if everybody in a film makes the smart choice you have no story, but honestly! 

Yeah, but then we wouldnt have had that ending set piece. I agree for a newspaperman, he didn't seem too bright.

[Hibi]

1 hour ago, Dargo said:

Not a big deal here, but I kind'a question Eddie's comment in his outro that it might have come as a surprise to the audiences at the time that Holden ends up in this film as he did, and considering as Eddie mentioned that just a couple of years earlier Sunset Blvd had put him on the Hollywood A-list.

I guess Eddie's thought process was that the audiences of that time might not expect any big star who's the lead in a movie ending up like that.

Ya see, I would've thought that audiences at the time having already watched Holden floating face down in a swimming pool and once again playing in this film what would become his stock-in-trade cynical type, would be more surprised that this film ended how it did and with essentially one of the "good guys" dying in it and regardless who the lead might have been in it.

But like I said, not a big deal here. Just a thought that crossed my mind.

(...btw, I've thought of a couple of other Holden flicks in which he meets the same fate...The Bridges at Toko-Ri and The Bridge on the River Kwai...anyone have any others that come to mind?)

 

I think he died in that Lee J Cobb noir at the cabin, Eddie showed awhile back? Can't remember the title. Played a criminal with psychological issues. Cant remember if he died or not. Did he die in the Counterfeit Traitor?

[Fading Fast]

33 minutes ago, Dargo said:

So in essence it sounds as if you're saying the narrative's justification for killing off Holden could've been due to the influence of 1950s morality into the tale, eh?

(...not a bad point, then)

It's possible, but then why did they let Smith live as, usually, the woman is punished, at least, as hard as the man for cheating?

The entire affair was handle in a very "not 1950s Motion Picture Production Code" way, IMO. 

[misswonderly3]

10 minutes ago, mkahn22 said:

 

The entire affair was handle in a very "not 1950s Motion Picture Production Code" way, IMO. 

Is that a good or a bad thing?  Just curious.

[LsDoorMat]

11 minutes ago, mkahn22 said:

It's possible, but then why did they let Smith live as, usually, the woman is punished, at least, as hard as the man for cheating?

The entire affair was handle in a very "not 1950s Motion Picture Production Code" way, IMO. 

I wouldn't have been surprised if they had killed off Smith and let Holden walk off into the sunset, treating it like "Boys Will Be Boys".  Especially in the early 1950s. 

[Dargo]

9 minutes ago, Hibi said:

I think he died in that Lee J Cobb noir at the cabin, Eddie showed awhile back? Can't remember the title. Played a criminal with psychological issues. Cant remember if he died or not. Did he die in the Counterfeit Traitor?

I've just checked Wiki here Hibi, and the plot synopses for these films said Holden doesn't die in either The Dark Past (1948) nor in The Counterfeit Traitor (1962).