Noir Alley

[CaveGirl]

On 8/11/2018 at 5:55 PM, laffite said:

Ouch, I hope I didn't give an impression that I was dissing you and others for spoiling it for me. Far from it, you all have bestirred me to revisit. And not to sound too gooey serious and I probably don't need to say this at all, but nothing that you have said or anyone else has said could be remotely considered "off the wall." Your remark about online discussion is right on, and I should thank you and all for  disabusing me of one of my pet prejudices and enticing me to open my eyes (gasp!) for another reading. Letting go of hate is a tough proposition .

Of course not, you never gave the impression of dissing anyone, and you never have in the past, Lafitte. Actually having differing opinions about any film is a good thing I think, and makes for a great discussion. Let's say you watch it again and still aren't into it. That's okay too. To each his own and that makes the world go round!

[CaveGirl]

On 8/11/2018 at 7:45 PM, ChristineHoard said:

We do get to see Janet in her bullet bra.

Do you think they just borrowed an old one from Mamie Van Doren, Christine?

[CaveGirl]

On 8/11/2018 at 6:34 PM, Swithin said:

In many works of art, there is not only one "point." A good film -- certainly one by Hitchcock -- can be seen on many levels, each of us bringing ourselves to merge with the creator's vision.  

I was just watching the news, hearing people talk about how anyone with a good education is an "elite." I think our society has developed a problem: rather than aspiring, we try to simplify. Vertigo can be entertainment; it can also be seen as a complex work of art.

Herman Melville did not take all his pains to write the greatest novel in the English language just to provide entertainment, though Moby Dick is certainly that for those who wish to see it that way. Others appreciate it differently, which doesn't make them geeks.

 

Well said, Swithin. Perhaps in the olden days, people enjoyed seeing or reading the works of those who had more talents than they, to be enthralled at such abilities, but now in a super-egalitarian society, the populace is more interested in seeing and reading things by people with comparable talents to themselves. Hence, seeing Gene Kelly dance in ways one could not, is less appealing than seeing someone almost flat-footed dance in ways that make one feel good about themselves and not envious of their own lack of dexterity. They then can say "Wow, I could do that so I must be A-okay!"

 Also perhaps instead of looking up a word one doesn't know in a book, one decries the author for using "50-cent" words as if his/her only goal it to be superior, instead of asking oneself, "Why should he/she not use words that have been acquired in a lifetime that are being properly used and more evocative than the typical." All now seems to be postulated on the principle of praising in people that which is not always so praiseworthy, so as not to dampen anyone's ego? Herman Melville would have to dumb down his book if it were printed today, with a glossary on the bottom of each page so as not to wound any ego with a less ample vocabulary.

[cigarjoe]

On 8/12/2018 at 2:31 PM, jamesjazzguitar said:

Interesting choice of The Naked Kiss as a favorite Sam Fuller film;    I go with the more traditional choice of Pick-Up on South Street,  followed by The Crimson Kimono (my mom being Japaneses we grew up in that part of LA),  and Underworld USA.

 

Yes I'd go with the first two of those but adding House Of Bamboo, the rest Underworld USA, Naked Kiss and Shock Corridor all feel more like cheapo made for TV films all shot on back lot sets. 

[cinemaspeak59]

On 8/13/2018 at 9:12 AM, LornaHansonForbes said:

in reviewing the list, i'd say they got all the right films, even if the order is a tad off...

DIAL M FOR MURDER #5??????

Yeah, no.

ps- i think imdb user ratings are a combination of how high the scores are AND HOW MANY PEOPLE VOTED, so the lesser seen films like FRENZY and even SHADOW OF A DOUBT might place higher if more people were exposed to them.

It's a good list, considering that Hitchcock's work is uniformly excellent. It's nice that Hitch's British films are there. I would have liked to have seen a spot for Saboteur (1942).

[ElCid]

Would be interesting if Eddie Mueller could select Noir movies with a Christmas connection for showing between Nov. 24 and Dec. 26.

[ChristineHoard]

1 hour ago, TheCid said:

Would be interesting if Eddie Mueller could select Noir movies with a Christmas connection for showing between Nov. 24 and Dec. 26.

Christmas Noir is fine right around Christmas but November 24?!?  We're inundated with Christmas movies, commercials, promotions, decorations, etc. the second Halloween ends and sometimes before.  Please, no Christmas Noir on November 24.  Can't we wait at least until December?

[misswonderly3]

1 hour ago, ChristineHoard said:

Christmas Noir is fine right around Christmas but November 24?!?  We're inundated with Christmas movies, commercials, promotions, decorations, etc. the second Halloween ends and sometimes before.  Please, no Christmas Noir on November 24.  Can't we wait at least until December?

But noir  "Christmas" movies are not exactly typical heart-warming, feel-good family Yuletide fare; therefore I would argue that unlike such "regular" Christmas offerings, noir Christmas films would be a welcome change. And certainly they are not shown over and over again, to the point where even one's favourite "holiday" movies can wear a little thin. Also, since most noirs are, as we all know, , edgy, often dark (in more ways than one), and altogether the opposite of sentimental etc., they would not cloy a Christmas-film-weary audience; so I don't believe we'd tire of them the same way as with the usual suspects.

And actually, there are lots of noirs that, if not exactly Christmas -themed, are set at Christmas time. Just to name a few:

Christmas Holiday   and  Lady on a Train...ok, Deanna Durbin isn't exactly an icon of noir. But it's just a bit of a stretch to say that these two are at least kind of noirish, and they certainly don't get aired very often.

The Lady in the Lake:  Robert Montgomery's plucky albeit not always successful attempt at subjective camera; Audrey Totter's the best thing in it. Anyway, it takes place over Christmas and New Year's.

Kiss of Death:  Well, it's not exactly a "holiday" movie, but it does begin at Christmas time, complete with department store decorations etc. Victor Mature does a little stealing, but hey, it's just because he wants to buy his family some nice Christmas gifts.

Also - I could be mistaken about this one, but I think The Sweet Smell of Success is set over the week between Christmas and New Year's.  maybe not,can't remember....

Lots more, I just can't bring them to mind. Oh, honourable mention: It's not a classic era noir, but what about

L.A. Confidential?  It's a pretty darn good neo-noir, and it's set over the holidays. And hey, I have no problem watching Kevin Spacey in it. 

 

[speedracer5]

13 minutes ago, misswonderly3 said:

But noir  "Christmas" movies are not exactly typical heart-warming, feel-good family Yuletide fare; therefore I would argue that unlike such "regular" Christmas offerings, noir Christmas films would be a welcome change. And certainly they are not shown over and over again, to the point where even one's favourite "holiday" movies can wear a little thin. Also, since most noirs are, as we all know, , edgy, often dark (in more ways than one), and altogether the opposite of sentimental etc., they would not cloy a Christmas-film-weary audience; so I don't believe we'd tire of them the same way as with the usual suspects.

And actually, there are lots of noirs that, if not exactly Christmas -themed, are set at Christmas time. Just to name a few:

Christmas Holiday   and  Lady on a Train...ok, Deanna Durbin isn't exactly an icon of noir. But it's just a bit of a stretch to say that these two are at least kind of noirish, and they certainly don't get aired very often.

The Lady in the Lake:  Robert Montgomery's plucky albeit not always successful attempt at subjective camera; Audrey Totter's the best thing in it. Anyway, it takes place over Christmas and New Year's.

Kiss of Death:  Well, it's not exactly a "holiday" movie, but it does begin at Christmas time, complete with department store decorations etc. Victor Mature does a little stealing, but hey, it's just because he wants to buy his family some nice Christmas gifts.

Also - I could be mistaken about this one, but I think The Sweet Smell of Success is set over the week between Christmas and New Year's.  maybe not,can't remember....

Lots more, I just can't bring them to mind. Oh, honourable mention: It's not a classic era noir, but what about

L.A. Confidential?  It's a pretty darn good neo-noir, and it's set over the holidays. And hey, I have no problem watching Kevin Spacey in it. 

 

I believe that Christmas Holiday is airing during Noir Alley this year.  I'm looking forward to it, I love Gene Kelly and it'd be interesting to see him in a non-musical role.

The Lady in the Lake is okay.  I just rewatched it during Audrey Totter's day and it kind of grew on me a little.

Bell, Book and Candle is kind of a combination Christmas-Halloween movie. 

Doesn't The Apartment feature Christmas? 

Then there's always Die Hard and Gremlins. 

[ElCid]

14 hours ago, ChristineHoard said:

Christmas Noir is fine right around Christmas but November 24?!?  We're inundated with Christmas movies, commercials, promotions, decorations, etc. the second Halloween ends and sometimes before.  Please, no Christmas Noir on November 24.  Can't we wait at least until December?

Nov 24 is the Sat/Sun after Thanksgiving and that would permit five movies to be shown.  Would leave it up to Eddie to determine which ones would be appropriate.  Some interesting suggestions have been made.

Although not a Noir in the basic sense, Cover Up might be appropriate.

[misswonderly3]

By the way, I like Christmas movies, even the usual popular ones that get shown every year.

Just thought of another noir suggestion: There's a few scenes in They Live by Night that take place at Christmas time. Again, it would be quite a stretch to claim it's a Christmas movie per sec, but still, Keechie and Bowie have a couple of sweet gifts for one another, and I think there's even a sad tiny little tree in their sad tiny little hide-out.

[cigarjoe]

More Christmas Noir:     
Repeat Performance (1947), Cover Up (1949), Backfire (1950), Roadblock (1951), Crime Wave (1953), I, The Jury (1953), Two Men In Manhattan (1959), Blast Of Silence (1961),     
 

Some Christmas Neo Noir (there are a few more)

Warm Nights On A Slow Moving Train (1988), Delusion (1991), Hard Eight (1996),  The Lookout (2007), 

[Sepiatone]

On 8/25/2018 at 8:09 PM, speedracer5 said:

I believe that Christmas Holiday is airing during Noir Alley this year.  I'm looking forward to it, I love Gene Kelly and it'd be interesting to see him in a non-musical role.

The Lady in the Lake is okay.  I just rewatched it during Audrey Totter's day and it kind of grew on me a little.

Bell, Book and Candle is kind of a combination Christmas-Halloween movie. 

Doesn't The Apartment feature Christmas? 

Then there's always Die Hard and Gremlins. 

Although THE APARTMENT does cover too, both Christmas and New Year's, I'd hardly consider it, AND "Die Hard" and "Gremlins" as "Noir".

And....as I often stated over the last few years, The Christmas season, both shopping and movies, "traditionally" kicked off on Thanksgiving day with Christmas movies on TV shown after the parades.  At least 'round these parts.

Sepiatone

[laffite]

6 hours ago, cigarjoe said:

Blast Of Silence (1961),     

I like this one. A story of a hit man. More than just rubbing out, personal details that interest. The down-to-earth first-person voice over is effective. Location shots in NYC. I don't remember the Christmas though.

[cigarjoe]

17 hours ago, laffite said:

I like this one. A story of a hit man. More than just rubbing out, personal details that interest. The down-to-earth first-person voice over is effective. Location shots in NYC. I don't remember the Christmas though.

Raphie's Apartment:

Ralphie's rat cages festooned with Christmas Decorations

Christmas Party, note tinsel 

[cigarjoe]

Here we go, Noir Alley back on the front burner....

[LornaHansonForbes]

 

THE LOCKET (1946)

LEONARD MALTIN REVIEW:    TWO STARS

? John Brahm. Laraine Day, Brian Aherne, Robert Mitchum, Gene Raymond, Sharyn Moffet, Ricardo Cortez. Another of those post-WW2 psychological dramas, with Day as a woman who makes men fall in love with her--blinding them to her true personality (and problems). Famed for its flashback within a flashback within a flashback . . . but not very good. Look for young brunette Martha Hyer as a party guest and Ellen Corby as a household servant.

 

(END MALTIN REVIEW)

 

(BEGIN LHF REVIEW AND WITH AN AUDIBLE SIGH)

 

Oh Lenny, sweet, simple Lenny.

 

Wouldn't we all be a little happier if we could also see the world in such square peg/round hole, "fire BAD, friend GOOD" terms, without all that damned annoying introspection that comes part and parcel with having even the slightest grasp of the concepts of nuance and subtext or the complexity of meaning in art.

 

I'd envy you, Lenny, if not for the fact that you think Corman's original LITTLE SHOP OF HORRORS deserved three and a half stars- only a half-star short of SEVEN SAMURAI.

 

Now I only pity you, and despair.

 

THE LOCKET is a great movie with some great direction from a script that is downright brilliant, a Russian Nesting Doll of a story, a many-layered onion of a psychological issues with a great, great ending. the acting is marvelous, although I do kind of wish one of the de Havilland sisters had gotten the part (I did enjoy their mother in her small role, and the resemblance to both was noticeable.) perhaps a touch slow at the start, this one hurtles toward a conclusion; picking up the pace with intensity every second it gets closer to the ending.

 

this might actually be the most cerebral film of the 1940's.

 

if you have not seen HANGOVER SQUARE by the same director, please do so. similar visual trickery without being outre- the man knew what to do with a camera.

 

 

[Hoganman1]

I enjoyed The Locket. The flashbacks were fairly easy to follow and the performances were well done. I thought it was interesting that when Nancy was confronted  about her actions she didn't offer total denials. She simply altered some of the facts which made her more credible. The only thing I found somewhat hard to believe was that she was able to have her husband, a psychiatrist, committed to an institution.                                                                     Keeping in mind that every Noir film cannot be on the level of Double Indemnity or the Maltese Falcon, the Locket was entertaining. 

[LsDoorMat]

44 minutes ago, LornaHansonForbes said:

 

 

THE LOCKET (1946)

LEONARD MALTIN REVIEW:    TWO STARS

? John Brahm. Laraine Day, Brian Aherne, Robert Mitchum, Gene Raymond, Sharyn Moffet, Ricardo Cortez. Another of those post-WW2 psychological dramas, with Day as a woman who makes men fall in love with her--blinding them to her true personality (and problems). Famed for its flashback within a flashback within a flashback . . . but not very good. Look for young brunette Martha Hyer as a party guest and Ellen Corby as a household servant.

 

(END MALTIN REVIEW)

 

(BEGIN LHF REVIEW AND WITH AN AUDIBLE SIGH)

  

Oh Lenny, sweet, simple Lenny.

 

Wouldn't we all be a little happier if we could also see the world in such square peg/round hole, "fire BAD, friend GOOD" terms, without all that damned annoying introspection that comes part and parcel with having even the slightest grasp of the concepts of nuance and subtext or the complexity of meaning in art. 

 

I'd envy you, Lenny, if not for the fact that you think Corman's original LITTLE SHOP OF HORRORS deserved three and a half stars- only a half-star short of SEVEN SAMURAI. 

 

Now I only pity you, and despair. 

 

I'm glad to see somebody else scratching their head over Leonard Maltin's reviews. My questions started when I looked up 1939's "Torchy Blane in Chinatown" several years ago and saw Maltin only gave it 1.5 stars. Well, I rather like the Torchy series,  and although I know they are Bs, they are generally good Bs, like the Boston Blakkie series (autocensor).  I recorded it anyways and found it on par with the rest of the Torchy series. What Maltin said was :

" Torchy and fiance Steve get mixed up with jade smuggling and murder in this tiresome and confusing series episode. Remake of a 1930 film, MURDER WILL OUT. "

Well, I did not find it tiresome or confusing. I've never seen "Murder Will Out". A year later - I don't remember the circumstances - Maltin was discussing this film live and talked about how awful the racism was in this one. Well, yeah, nobody in the 21st century would make a film with stereotypes like this in it, but in 1939 it is just par for the course. Just like women who choose career over marriage usually get their comeuppance in films of this era and end up either a tragic figure or see the error of their ways and wind up contented with dish pan hands.

So I guess my problem with Maltin is that apparently he doesn't actually SAY what bothers him about a film when he is writing reviews and instead says something misleading. Paraphrasing what he wrote - "Locket is not very good". I would just expect something more eloquent and descriptive out of somebody who watches so many films and writes so many (short) reviews. So who knows what his REAL problem was with it. And I never got that Day's character was "making" men fall in love with her, blinding them to her true personality. The big questions are - Does Nancy even know the truth herself? Maybe SHE is blind to her true personality? Isn't that what that last scene where she has the psychotic break all about? Her coming to terms with who she is and what she did? And  like Eddie said - Did she purposefully manipulate herself back to square one, to the wealthy family that started her mental trouble, or was it just fate sending her in that direction? Good questions all, and none apparently asked by Maltin.

[LornaHansonForbes]

also also, MAN, the scenes with the little girls were SO WELL DONE and SO WELL ACTED, and so outright HEARTBREAKING.

not just the child actors, but the character actors who played the children's mothers (one of whom, I think, was Jenny in THE WOLF MAN...?)

[LornaHansonForbes]

...also in re: THE LOCKET

I enjoyed the leitmotif throughout the movie wherein various characters subconsciously grasped at their own necks.

very German.

[LornaHansonForbes]

in re: BOSTON "BLACKGUY"

Yeah, I knew the autocensor has issues with that franchise title. to be honest, it kind of tickles me.

[ElCid]

Was wondering if anyone would comment on The Locket.  Saw it several years ago and not very impressed.

However, since it was picked for Noir Alley, thought I would watch again.  Enjoyed Eddie Muller's commentary.  The flashback within a flashback within a flashback did not bother me.  No problems following the storyline.  But still found the movie sort of boring and not overly impressed with any of the actors.  Especially the two little girls (Sorry, Lorna).  They did an adequate job, but nothing more.  I think Robert Mitchum showed his potential as to why he became a big star.

I would not call it Noir.  Romantic mystery? Romantic drama with a murder? 

[cigarjoe]

I enjoyed The Locket, just saw bits and pieces of it throughout the years this was the first time i saw it the whole way through. 

[midwestan]

I saw 'The Locket' many years ago when it aired on TCM, but I couldn't finish watching it due to a prior commitment.  I think the last part I remembered was the party where Ricardo Cortez 'buys it'.

I thought Laraine Day was pretty good in this one.  She's the focal point of the film, and she looks quite attractive.  I think there were some scenes where you could be forgiven for mistaking her for Ann Sothern.  I did chuckle at some of the hats she wore in some of the scenes...my, how styles have changed over the years!

Robert Mitchum was very good in his role.  Brian Aherne was good too, but he's one of those guys who looks much better with facial hair than without.  Gene Raymond looked almost identical compared to his role in 'Red Dust' 14 years earlier.  God, I wish I'd aged that gracefully!

The only complaint I'd have against the picture (and maybe this is why Leonard Malten didn't like it), was what Eddie mentioned in his post-movie comments.  Did Kathy realize the man she was about to marry was the son of the woman who tormented her some 20-25 years previous that led her into her kleptomania?  From that aspect, the story could have been a little more plausible if the audience knew she was scheming to get back at Mrs. Willis, or it never occurred to her in the first place that Gene Raymond's mother was the woman who accused her of theft lo those many years ago.

Overall, still a pretty good flick, even if my cable television viewers guide gave it 2 stars out of 4.