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Name Your Favorite Film Noir Characters...And Why


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Glo-lo MadHat Molo writes:

 

?5.) Ann Savage as Vera in ?DETOUR.?

 

4.) Susan Hayward as June Goth in ?DEADLINE AT DAWN.?

 

3.) Lizabeth Scott as Jane Palmer in ?TOO LATE FOR TEARS.?

 

2.) Barbara Stanwyck as Phyllis Dietrichson in ?DOUBLE INDEMNITY.?

 

1.) Jane Greer as Kathie Moffat in ?OUT OF THE PAST.?

?Don't you believe me??

 

My head is still spinning! Run Jeff!?

 

Molo, you have named four out of five ladies that are among my absolute favorites. Can we elope??

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> {quote:title=HollywoodGolightly wrote:}{quote}

> > {quote:title=sineast wrote:}{quote}

> > 8. The Greenest Man in Noir Award: Way ahead of his time, environmentally speaking,

> > Skip McCoy from Pickup on South Street. Even the name has a green ring to it.

> > Takes public transportation, lives off the grid, and uses the natural cooling effect of a

> > river to keep his brews ice cold. And all the time he was being green, he was still busy

> > fighting the Red Menace. If cinema vert hadn't been coined already, Skip would

> > have invented it.

>

> So, a good example of cinema vert and cinema noir? ;)

 

Better a good solid environmentalist than a noirvert. ;)

>

> > 31. Most Likely to Be Fitted for a Dior Straitjacket: Carmen Sternwood from +The Big

> > Sleep+. The kid sister to Vivian, but she's no kid. The Production Code stripped

> > Carmen of most of her kinky proclivities when she came to the big screen, but left enough

> > for folks to figure out she was beyond a naughty girl. She has that little girl giggle, but it

> > comes with a steep price. Be prepared to pay. Ole Rusty did. Some femme fatales get

> > mad, Carmen is mad. In your heart, you know she's flirty, in your guts you know she's nuts. If cute little Carmen invites you out for target practice, politely decline, unless you want to be the target.

> >

>

> Well, we can all imagine what it would have been like in the absence of any Production Code. Especially with Howard Hawks directing.

 

And Bill Faulkner as one of the screen writers! Considering some of Bill's own characters,

Ms. Sternwood would have been a walk in the park for him. Guess we'll never know, unless

there's a secret script hidden somewhere.

 

Maybe imagining would be better, but there was the 1978 remake with Bob Mitchum. Haven't

seen it in a long time, but I would like to again, just for the fun of it. It was an interesting

effort, but nowhere near the 1946 film. I had forgotten that General Sternwood, holed up

in the miasma of his hothouse while his daughters wreck half the city, was played by Jimmy

Stewart in the 1978 version. And Candy Clark was perfect as the now uninhibited Carmen,

or Camille, as they changed the names for some reason.

>

> > 6. The Little Anklet that Could-It still can.

>

> You really can't stop thinking about that anklet, can you? :P

>

> Is it like an itch you can't scratch? ;)

 

Not really, hee hee. It does play a large part at the beginning of the film, like no other

anklet I can remember, and it's a good lead-in to Bruno. It certainly gets Walter going-

straight ......'Neff said.

>

> > 67. Best Male Counterpart to the Little Anklet- Bruno A. from Strangers on a Train. Just a

> > tad narcissistic, he likes people to know who's coming down the aisle, so he has his Bruno

> > tie pin. One foot in the closet, the other out, got a little of the ole pscycho-sexual heebie-jeebies going on. Compared to Joel Cairo, Bruno is almost a he man. Not that that's saying much, and not that there's anything wrong with that.

> >

>

> It's been a while since I've seen Strangers on a Train, but I'm hoping to revisit it fairly soon. I'll have more to say about good ol' Bruno then.

 

Me too, but it's always worth another viewing. Bruno really makes that film, because the

tennis player and the Senator's daughter are a little bland just by themselves. They need

a good old father-hating momma's boy like Bruno to stir things up, criss-cross-wise.

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"I'd love to watch a double feature of Out of the Past and The Big Steal, since they both star Mitchum & Greer."

 

Chicago TV used to run both late at night. That was my first exposure to both films. In my memory, it almost does seem like a double bill.

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> {quote:title=JackFavell wrote:}{quote}

.

>

> Wally Fay - (Jack Carson, *Mildred Pierce* ) The man is good in every movie he was ever in. Smarmy, you still end up feeling for him.

>

 

Hi Jackie,

 

You are a very wise and full of insight! :)

 

 

>

> Debby Marsh - (Gloria Grahame, *The Big Heat* ) - this one is so far above the other ladies that she almost needs a separate listing. Because it is Debby's story. Because Debby turns out to be the hero.

>

 

Again, You are very wise and full of insight! :)

 

That was quite a nice list. I'm struggling here because my memory is so bad. Still working on the guys list.

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> {quote:title=MissGoddess wrote:}{quote}

> Well how do you like that? Mad Hat and Shiftless Grimes don't have a single Gloria Grahame character amongst their female lead selections (I'm not counting the "honorable mentions"). Hmmm...has the love cooled, boys?

>

> I'm not sure if I'm as ruthless at separating performer from character. So it will be interesting to see how many Gary Cooper characters I can put on my list. :)

 

Not for me! She will showing up don't worry! Gloria transcends all lists! :)

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> {quote:title=CineMaven wrote:}{quote}

>

> Molo, you have named four out of five ladies that are among my absolute favorites. Can we elope??

 

I'll get my ladder! Hopefully you don't live any higher than the third floor. I get winded easily! :)

 

I thought my list was somewhat conventional compared to the others. Those gals really stand out for me though. I like my noir gals a little dangerous. The other lists are really blowing me away! Some great thoughts and lots of stuff I need to see or see again.

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> {quote:title=redriver wrote:}{quote}

> "I'd love to watch a double feature of Out of the Past and The Big Steal, since they both star Mitchum & Greer."

>

> Chicago TV used to run both late at night. That was my first exposure to both films. In my memory, it almost does seem like a double bill.

 

It must have been fun, watching those on the telly. I wish I'd gotten a chance to watch both movies much earlier, I didn't really get to it until I seeked them out, after I was pretty much officially a bona fide film buff.

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> {quote:title=molo14 wrote:}{quote}

> That was quite a nice list. *I'm struggling here because my memory is so bad. Still working on the guys list.*

 

I used MissG's and La CineMaven's links to the lists of noir films to help me decide. It really made it --harder to stop myself-- ..... um, easier to remember performances when you have a list of movies to go from. Unfortunately for you guys, it also meant that I kept finding more and more people to add to my list.

 

I look forward to your new list....

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>

> :D

>

> ladyfromshanghai46.jpg

>

 

I'm ashamed to admit that I did NOT remember this guy. It's been a while since I watched the movie. :D

 

>

> Like Harry, Helen is an opportunist. She's a gold digger who has now found a way to make a go of it without Philip. She wants to be her own boss, like Harry. She knows she can make it work if only she can get that license. But she's impatient, and it costs her. While I view Harry as "small business" versus "big business," I view Helen as woman in a world (ownership) dominated by man. They are very similar. Harry is the more likeable character because he's not meanspirited as Helen. Harry is a weak boy. Helen is a cold woman.

>

 

That's very well expressed. Helen is like a cold steel dagger. Harry is a bit of a mush next to her.

 

>

> I love her wanting to make man a spaghetti dinner. She'd love to keep house for her man. She's the opposite of Helen Nosseross.

>

 

Yes, the opposite of what she seems, too, in terms of her job. That's not where she wants to be.

 

>

> Harry's inner forces do contribute to his being weak, but I believe the more powerful forces outside of his control are what really take him down. He was outmuscled by the big boys.

>

 

He was, but he put himself in harm's way...and Mary, too.

 

>

> I consider The Night of the Hunter to be film noir because it's visually dark and its story is dark. In fact, I believe the visuals and story are as dark as they come. An ex-convict who is chasing money and is willing to kill a mother and her young children to get that money? Now that's pitch black. I also consider film noir to be morality tales. The Night of the Hunter just doesn't hide this as most other films noir do. It's very overt.

>

 

If you don't mind, I have a reply but I want to take it to rohanaka's thread to keep on topic here...

 

 

>

> What I really like about Connie Wallace is that she's a married woman who takes her older boss while running off with a younger man. She buries two men and you know she's not going to stop there. Most of the iconoclastic femmes fatale usually fool with two men... but three?

 

Wow, that's what you "like" about her! I hate to think if you hated her what your reasons would be. So she's more interesting to you than Fran (Ruth Chatterton in Dodsworth)? ;) Are they not sisters under the mink?

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Hi Miss Goddess,

 

To paraphrase a certain fella:

 

Why do you make me do it? You know I'm gonna talk! Your gonna make me talk! You always make punks like me talk! Why do you do it? Why?

 

Anyway if I keep struggling over this I'm not going to get it done. So I'm just going to write.

 

My top five noir guys:

 

Okay who could it be? Widmark playing any number of slimy characters? Or maybe Brian Donlevy playing the sap in *Impact.* Peter Lorre in *The Mask of Dimitrios* ? So many others. I can't narrow it down. I have to go with:

 

5.) Robert Walker as Bruno Anthony in *Strangers on a Train* Definitely memorable. Walker is incredible. A guy you don't want to start a casual conversation with. Uniquely psychotic.

 

4.) John Garfield as Frank Chambers in *The Postman Always Rings Twice* Why? Cause he's sucker for a dame in white. I really like Garfield as an actor but I'm not too fond of some of his other noir turns. Here, he takes the long ride.

 

3.) Humphrey Bogart as Dixon Steele *In A Lonely Place* The more I watch this film the more fascinated I become with this character. Dix carries a lot of baggage. He has a lot of scars. The way his temper flares, the contradictions in cynicism and strange moments of sentiment. He fosters destruction. He's damaged goods.

 

2.) Robert Mitchum as Jeff Bailey in *Out of the Past* Mitchum doesn't get enough credit. He's the poster boy mark for every femme fatale with half an inclination. I can't emphasize enough how highly I regard *Out of the Past* ! It is the *Gone With The Wind* of the genre, The *It Happened One Night* of noirs. Mitchum and Greer are the Fred and Ginger of the genre! Okay maybe I'm going off the beam, but I think it's such a remarkable film.

 

We start with Jeff Bailey seemingly settled, content.

 

I sell gasoline, I make a small profit. With that I buy groceries. The grocer makes a profit. We call it earning a living. You may have heard of it somewhere.

 

His past catches up with him. We learn of that past and of Kathie Moffat. Mitchum's Jeff sums it all up:

 

How big a chump can you get to be? I was finding out.

 

Baby, I don't care.

 

Neither do I, baby, but if I have to I'm gonna die last.

 

Nothing in the world is any good unless you can share it.

 

Jeff Bailey can never get a hold on the events around him. He can be smart, he can stay a step ahead for a while, but he can't win out.

 

1.) Robert Ryan as Jim Wilson in *On Dangerous Ground* or any other film. Ryan is amazing and I'm written of him before. He had to top my list. Wilson is a great character to do it with. The contradictions. Done in by life, angry, brooding, resentful, disgusted, obsessed and hurt. He flinches, painfully, when the girl behind the counter offhandedly insults him. His face lights up at the call of the newsboy while heading up the stoop after being out all night. He closes out the world, pulling down the shade to his little apartment. He's forced to take a job out of town. He begins a journey. He is forced to confront himself, suddenly detached, bewildered, the cold numbness thaws. The blind lead the blind. The dead man wakes.

 

Edited by: molo14 on Oct 27, 2009 8:18 PM

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> {quote:title=molo14 wrote:}{quote}

 

>

> 1.) Robert Ryan as Jim Wilson in *On Dangerous Ground* or any other film. Ryan is amazing and I'm written of him before. He had to top my list. Wilson is a great character to do it with. The contradictions. Done in by life, angry, brooding, resentful, disgusted, obsessed and hurt. He flinches, painfully, when the girl behind the counter offhandedly insults him. His face lights up at the call of the newsboy while heading up the stoop after being out all night. He closes out the world, pulling down the shade to his little apartment. He's forced to take a job out of town. He begins a journey. He is forced to confront himself, suddenly detached, bewildered, the cold numbness thaws. The blind lead the blind. The dead man wakes.

 

 

Oh golly, that was beautiful.

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Mad Hat Noirista!! I am staggered by your list because of the wonderfully descriptive writing and the quotes you used. You know your noir, you sneaky little 1930s junkie you!! And did I read that correctly: you put Out of the Past in the same company as GWTW, It Happened One Night and Fred and Ginger!? All 1930s movies? FrankGrimes just passed out. :D

 

I am so impressed by all the effort and passion demonstrated in the posts so far...they've gone and shown what can be learned about people from simple list making. ;)

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There are loads of actors that I love from the 1940's who make my heart go thump in the night. Many did not delve into the world of noir.

 

Conversely, there are those that walked the dark streets who have given oily smarmy weasly performance for the ages, but just grate on my soul like chalk on a black board.

 

But then there are those men who touch the right g-spot with me. They have broad shoulders and wear wide lapesl, fat ties and soft suede fedoras firmly planted on their lacquered heads. Their suits may be pin-striped and they don't bother to buckle the belts of their trenchcoats; they just tie it in a tight angry knot around their waist.

 

My men of noir are heroic, villainous, hard-boiled and wry. They never learn their lesson or they learn it too little too late. My men of noir will protect you or hurt you. Underneath the snarl and the bluster and the insouciant aloofness they are vulnerable and damaged. I want to wipe their brow. I melt in their embrace. With some I recoil with fear and anticipation.

 

My men of noir drive the plot or are driven to their doom. My men of noir are not dumb lugs; for the most part they are smart. You see, the smarter they are, the more of a Challenge they are to noir's lethal ladies. No man worthy of a lethal lady like Greer, Stanwyck, Lizabeth, Darnell, Mary Beth or Googie, Double G or Geenie Beenie would want to go out like fish in a barrel.

 

COMING SOON: MAVEN'S MEN OF NOIR.

 

Edited by: CineMaven on Oct 27, 2009 8:53 PM

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>

> 1. ANN DORAN as ANYONE IN ANY MOVIE.

>

> Because. Just because. I dont care if its a scene, I dont care if its one or two lines. I don't care if its noir or not.

>

 

That is another eye opener for me because I had to "google" her, not being familiar with her name. I know her now, but I can't recall any specific roles. I'll be looking closer from now on.

 

>

> 2. HOPE EMERSON as Rose Given in CRY OF THE CITY.

>

> Any woman who could give Mike Mazurki a run for his money is okay in my book.

 

Ha!! Now I really have to re-watch Cry of the City.

 

>

> 3. HELEN WALKER as Lilith Ritter in NIGHTMARE ALLEY.

>

> This ice cold beauty is most lethal because Lilith doesnt get a man by his heart, but gets him through his mind. As psychoanalyst, when she turns the tables on Stanton, a chill went down my spine. (Walker did well in IMPACT and should have had a better career. Whats up with these icy blondes in the forties)?

>

 

There were quite a few of them in the 50s, too. ;)

 

> 4. LEE PATRICK as Effie Perine in THE MALTESE FALCON.

>

> Effie could type, make coffee or be anything Sam needed. Now thats an executive assistant. And then her 360 turn as Elvira Powell in Caged well honey, please!

>

 

You're right, she was extremely versatile. She was even motherly in The Bishop's Wife! :D

 

>

> 5. JACK CARSON as Wally Fay in MILDRED PIERCE.

>

> I love Wally. Hes a jolly, fast-talking, good-time guy. He knows all the angles too. He could cut a deal for you. And I loved his cynicism when Mildred visits his club and she sees Veda. (Remember how he knocked on wood when he said he didnt have any kids?) I love Wally cuz he knows the score and could show a girl a good time in the bargain.

>

 

Wally is certainly getting showered with attention in Dark City! Wow!

 

> 6. AGNES MOORHEAD as Madge Rapf in DARK PASSAGE.

>

> Madge looked so smart and stylish. And she was such a waspish busybody. I love her final scene. She spits out every word with such venom: You need evidence! You need Me!!! She stands toe-to-toe with any man. When a girl throws herself out the window so that if she cant have you nobody can...you have to admire that.

>

 

What a character. Madge knows how to win friends and knock them off.

 

DarkPassage-Madge01.jpg

 

DarkPassage-Madge04.jpg

 

DarkPassage-Madge05.jpg

 

DarkPassage-Madge06.jpg

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> {quote:title=MissGoddess wrote:}{quote}

> Mad Hat Noirista!! I am staggered by your list because of the wonderfully descriptive writing and the quotes you used. You know your noir, you sneaky little 1930s junkie you!! And did I read that correctly: you put Out of the Past in the same company as GWTW, It Happened One Night and Fred and Ginger!? All 1930s movies? FrankGrimes just passed out. :D

>

> I am so impressed by all the effort and passion demonstrated in the posts so far...they've gone and shown what can be learned about people from simple list making. ;)

 

Frank? Wake up Frank! :)

 

Miss G,

 

I was just trying to say that it is a landmark film in the genre. He probably didn't get the references anyway. ;) Has he even seen *Gone With the Wind* ? The last time we had a big noir discussion we started talking about thirties films too.

 

http://forums.tcm.com/jive/tcm/thread.jspa?threadID=136711&start=0&tstart=0

 

These threads are always interesting and we do learn a lot about film and each other's insights from them.

 

Now we'll see what the Maven has to say about the men of noir!

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I'll get my ladder! Hopefully you don't live any higher than the third floor. I get winded easily!

 

I'm on the fifth floor. But no worries...I?ll meet you in the lobby; I wouldn?t want you to get winded...yet!

 

 

"5.) Robert Walker as Bruno Anthony in ?Strangers on a Train.? Definitely memorable. Walker is incredible.

 

4.) John Garfield as Frank Chambers in ?The Postman Always Rings Twice.? Why? Cause he's sucker for a dame in white.

 

3.) Humphrey Bogart as Dixon Steele ?In A Lonely Place? He fosters destruction. He's damaged goods.

 

2.) Robert Mitchum as Jeff Bailey in ?Out of the Past.? He's the poster boy mark for every femme fatale with half an inclination.

 

1.) Robert Ryan as Jim Wilson in ?On Dangerous Ground? or any other film. Done in by life, angry, brooding, resentful, disgusted, obsessed and hurt. The blind lead the blind. The dead man wakes.[/b]

 

Molo, are you reading MY crib notes?!! DANG IT MAN! IS THERE A PREACHER IN THE HOUSE!!!!!!!!! We love the same men.

 

So THAT'S the plan: Miss Goddess is running a speed dating event here in the noir thread, and if participants match up with liking the same noir characters...Ding! ding! ding!

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ChiO writes:

 

?(1.) Annie Laurie Starr: Peggy Cummins in ?Gun Crazy.? -- This girl is Trouble and that begins with ?T?, which rhymes with ?G? which stands for Gun and Gorgeous.?

 

How you mixed ?THE MUSIC MAN? with film noir is too too clever. You are a mad genius!

 

(4.) Johnny Haslett: Timothy Carey in ?Crime Wave? (2.) Lou Terpe: Timothy Carey in ?Finger Man? (1.)Nikki Arcane: Timothy Carey in ?The Killing.? -- They shoot horses, don't they?

 

Any man that lists that wild-eyed, slow-talkin? mad man on his noir list three times is a man after my own heart. (I gave FrankGrimes my heart...but he won't be able to handle all of it, so you can have another little piece of my heart too). I'll never forget Timothy Carey in "Paths of Glory."

 

?HIS GIRL FRIDAY? as the first noir??? Well my boy, you have just discovered e=mc2.

 

?4. Paula Craig: Janis Carter in ?Framed? -- Not the Redeemer of Souls.

 

JANIS CARTER?! Awwww man, you included one of my newest absolute favorite favorites of mine on your list. There?s something about her. I?m eloping with Molo, but you can come too. Who says I can?t have two husbands at one time? It ain?t against the law in the Constitution, is it? Besides, he said he gets winded easily.

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Redriver writes:

 

?It's a little to harder to come up with the ladies. Cathy in ?OUT OF THE PAST? is dangerous. But she doesn't intrigue me all that much. Likewise, Brigid O'Shaugnessy. These dames have no heart.?

 

Wow! For the most part, I like ?em heartless. That?s a prerequisite for a lethal lady.

 

?Never expected to be up here tonight. It's an honor to be mentioned in the same light as these (Molo, ChiO, FrankGrimes).?

 

Why sir, you hide your light under a bushel. You acquit yourself quite nicely!!! :D

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> {quote:title=CineMaven wrote:}{quote}

> I'll get my ladder! Hopefully you don't live any higher than the third floor. I get winded easily!

>

> I'm on the fifth floor. But no worries...Ill meet you in the lobby; I wouldnt want you to get winded...yet!

>

 

:D I've been takin' vitamins!

 

It must be something in the air.

 

bigcombo.jpg?t=1256703370

 

You had Bruno Anthony and Frank Chambers on your list?

 

I'm still working on my supporting players. That's a tough one to narrow down.

 

 

>Im eloping with Molo, but you can come too. Who says I cant have two husbands at one time? It >aint against the law in the Constitution, is it? Besides, he said he gets winded easily.

 

That does it! I'm snuffing out this cig and heading to the gym.....and really soon too!!!

 

I'll never live this down! Now you want me to share my honeymoon with ChiO?!?

 

Great!

 

You bring the thesaurus and dictionary, I'll go through my back issues of Cahiers du Cin?ma.

 

Now seriously, like any great film heroine, you have to make that hard choice. No one can have it all, baby! ;)

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?Now seriously, like any great film heroine, you have to make that hard choice. No one can have it all, baby!? ;-)

 

I would say you?re right Molo. But I?ll quote two other noiristas to make my case:

 

 

FrankGrimes posted Oct 26, 2009 2:08 AM:

?

?Connie Wallace (Mary Beth Hughes in The Great Flamarion) -Is there any man she won't use? When I think of femme fatale, I think of Connie.?

 

MissGoddess posted Oct 26, 2009 5:35 PM: ?

 

That's quite a statement in the rather vast field of femmes noires.

 

FrankGrimes posted Oct 27, 2009 2:31 AM: ?

 

?What I really like about Connie Wallace is that she's a married woman who takes her older boss while running off with a younger man. She buries two men and you know she's not going to stop there. Most of the iconoclastic femmes fatale usually fool with two men...but three??

 

It looks like I can have it all. But I?ll be fair even in a noir thread. Now, while I?m deciding, I have to make a confession:

 

I like MARTHA IVERS better than PHYLLIS DIETRICHSON. Yeah. I know Phyllis is an icon in film noir and Martha is not as cold-blooded as Phyllis but I can?t help it. In ?THE STRANGE LOVE OF MARTHA IVERS? we see what happens to a woman - a man - a relationship when they have to live with murder.

 

The stress is incredible. Martha handles it well at first, but the facade slowly crumbles. She?s cries in the woods, whispers murderous intent into Sam?s ear, flips off Toni Marachek and just disintegrates by the end of it all. For this to be Kirk Douglas? first motion picture, he stands toe-to-toe with a woman among women. ?The Strange Love of Martha Ivers? (unwieldly title) is my second favorite film noir. And this scene says it all. Remember, when you read it, read it rapid-fire:

 

MARTHA: ?He?s lying! You believe me don?t you Sam??

 

WALTER: ?You believe her Sam? Martha at least tell the truth now. Tell how much you were afraid of an unsolved murder. Tell how much it was threat to the power and riches you learned to love somuch. That Ilearned to love too. Tell why I became a District Attorney. Tell why you made me hang that man. Tell the truth!?

 

MARTHA: ?I told the truth. They were like leeches. Both of them. They wanted everything.?

 

WALTER: ?All I ever wanted was you.?

 

MARTHA: ?Everything you are--?

 

WALTER: ?I?m nothing.?

 

MARTHA: ?Everything you have I gave you.?

 

WALTER: ?You gave me nothing.?

 

MARTHA: ?Then let go!!!?

 

They both can?t live with what they did. It?s a great sick mess. By the way Grimes-y, I have on "Scarlett Street" while I'm preparing my notes. My gosh, she takes a smack from Duryea, and then treats Eddie G. so mean as though he's tormenting her. Whose tormenting whom. Ugh! AND THIS YOU LIKE???

 

Kitty gives Chris her toes to nail polish. "Paint me Chris. (PAUSE) They'll be masterpieces." My gosh, the contempt on her face for him made me wish she'd met up with Johnny Rocco from "Key Largo." Whew!

 

NEXT UP: THE MEN OF NOIR ACCORDING TO CINEMAVEN...

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