Turner "Classic"?

[Jamie]

I get the feeling that Turner Classic Movies sometimes is turning the history page a little too soon. It's not so "classic" anymore. Classic, to me, should be "over 25 years of age". I think the programming guide/guidess should stick with the 1920s/30/40s/ and some 1950s and leave the 1960s/1970s/1980s for the following 20 years. Yes, I understand that the "weekly specials" sometimes leave programmers no choice but to air a selected movie but, please, while it's still classic, KEEP it classic. And for those of you who do choose to respond to this, keep in mind that this is just my opinion. I love TCM for keeping history alive.

[classicsfan1119]

We've often debated what "Classic" signifies when it comes to movies, and the "general" definition implies that it is used to describe a movie that may have had any of these features: it was very popular (include "big money maker" here), it was nominated for or received major awards, it has stood up well over time, and which means that it was most likely filmed more than twenty years ago.

 

Personally, I've always liked to think of a "Classic" movie as being one from the beginning of time (Silents) through the 40's, but I have recently expanded my perspective to include great movies made through the 60's and 70's because if a movie has remained a gem for thirty to forty years I'm happy to see it, especially from TCM (uncut, and with no commercial interruptions).

 

Additionally, there were a lot of great actors from the Golden Era who were still making movies, and excellent ones, into the 60's, and even the 70's. Kate Hepburn and Spencer Tracy come to mind in "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner" (1967), Kate again with Peter O'Toole in "The Lion in Winter" (1968), and more than a few others like Gregory Peck in "Moby Dick" (1956) and "To Kill a Mockingbird" (1962). ML

[chrtbsh]

I think this is a great subject. We talk about that here quite a bit, as you might expect.

 

It's very difficult to define - when we ask people what they think of as classic, we receive many, many different replies.

 

As I said in a previous post, some people hate it when we show contemporary movies, others hate it when we show silents, others hate it when we show westerns, etc. But I see us as a network that is about the history of film, and that includes films from all genres and all eras.

 

It is true that there are plenty of other places to see these more contemporary films. But we will play them uncut, commercial-free, in letterbox (whenever possible), and I do think that sets us apart. As it is, something like 90% of the schedule is pre-1970, so we (I hope) can keep the people who only look to us for older titles satisfied every month (even if there are a few films in there they don't like).

 

And - this is very important - we try to show these films in the right context. For example, if Katharine Hepburn were star-of-the-month, we'd include every single one of her films that we could in the festival so people could see as much of her career as possible. That would include her last film - the remake of "Love Affair" - along with her classics starting from the '30s. I think when looking at her career as an actress, we want to show as much as possible. The same thing applies when we do a theme, as we did last year with romantic comedies - we included "When Harry Met Sally..." and "Sleepless in Seattle" because we felt they were strong enough to be compared to the older classics from the genre.

 

Finally, I also hope we can draw in some people who might come to the network to see "Sleepless in Seattle," but will then stick around for "The Philadelphia Story" or "His Girl Friday." A big part of our goal is to help people transition into a love for older movies as well as newer ones, and sometimes it helps to draw them in with something they're more comfortable with.

 

I hope that helps to explain a little bit about our strategy, even if you don't like it when we play the newer titles.

[deeanddaisy666]

tcmprogrammer, when the day comes that I am no longer upset that I missed THIS film noir or THAT film noir at 6:00am or 3:00am, THEN I'll be the first to let you know that you have joined the ranks of an AMC.

 

As of RIGHT now, today, you are THE best movie station in the sewer that is cable television...and satellite television, I'm sure, although I wouldn't pay those crooks for the pleasure of their hundred plus extra crap channels.

 

Bingo, you are a "network that is about the history of film". I don't like color films, I don't like silent films, but I ADORE black and white films, especially the 'film noir, venetian blind, shadow on the wall, striped furniture, everyone wearing suits and dresses' films. And all the others that I DON'T like are as much a part of the history of film as the Gutenberg Bible is part of the history of literature.

 

Okay, so I have a "specialized" interest in your films.

 

SO WHAT?????

 

So everyone ELSE who has a specialized interest in your films should....here, I'll say it slow, so the grammatically challenged can follow....PICK.......AND.........CHOOSE.

 

DON'T turn ON TCM when they DON'T have something you don't like. Take an English course at your local high school, learn to spell correctly, learn to read, and then peruse your television guide to find out WHEN THEY ARE programming something you like.

 

DUH..........was THAT so difficult to understand?

 

tcmprogrammer, I am a cranky, obstreperous, often crudely written New Yawk poster, but your channel...which, by the way, the jackasses at Rainbow Cablevision TOOK TEN YEARS TO BRING TO MY LINEUP...is THE best thing since sliced bread. Okay, well, at least since the early AMC. Say, can you buy 'Remember WENN' from the idiots at AMC? What a WONDERFUL little series that was.

 

SO, take the barbs and put them aside, but take the compliments to heart. You all, amazingly, since I also hate the corporate entertainment industry to pieces, are wonderful.

[slappy3500]

jposkitt you must be a victim of the "new math." A film from 1969 (the NEWEST movie year from that decade) is 35 years old! If you are willing to see movies that are 25 years old 1974 would be the newest films you want to see. So you want the NEWEST movie on TCM to be from 1959? That's 45 years Dude!

[bansi4]

Extremely well put stoney. Now if only those few nutballs can comprehend it, life would be so much easier on the boards. If only...

 

Mongo

[eddie71664]

I still don't understand how people can have access to

160 hours of the best film possible per week, and when a few hours of a silent movie, contemperary, western or something that an individual doesn't seem fit for their

perception of the format, negativity is expressed. I'm

sure glad that I don't watch the tube so much that when

something that doesn't interest me comes on I don't have the will to change the channel or turn the thing off.

Eddie

[zombi6422]

They play a couple of more recent movies and you're complaining.

[Jamie]

I think I should apologize for causing such an uproar. I love TCM so much but that was just a thought I wanted to share. Keep history alive, no matter how old (or new) it is!

~Jamie~

[eddie71664]

accepted JPO at least by me. I never thought that you meant to disparage TCM, just create conversation. But

remember that a lot of people on this site are very passionate about TCM and also very protective. It amazes

me the knowledge possessed by posters like Fialto,Classic

Mongo, Coffee Etc.... I use to think that I knew a lot about film but I came to the conclusion that I don't know

squat.

Eddie

[classicsfan1119]

You know more than you give yourself credit for, Eddie. Besides, it's not the knowledge base that some of us have that matters at a site like this, it's whether or not we can "agree to disagree" about our personal tastes, and be respectful toward each other in the process. All it takes is "one bad apple" to upset this delicate balance, but the good still far outweigh the bad. Good to have you with us. :)ML

[classicsfan1119]

Jamie, you have absolutely nothing to apologize for! You respectfully submitted a very good post and caused more than a few of us to give your topic some careful thought about what a "Classic" is. Even our TCM Programmer replied to you, and said that it was an "interesting topic" for discussion....and that it was! Many thanks to you! :)ML

[Jamie]

Thanks. I appreciate it. I had no intention of hurting TCM movie lover's feelings (like myself). Even Robert Osbourne would be upset with me!

Yikes!

[Jamie]

I hope my apologies are accepted. TCMprogrammer, your definition has made it so much clearer to me. It is not that " I do not like" the newer movies being shown, I was just getting worried that the greatest film stars of all time like-Gene Kelly, Fred Astaire, Ginger Rogers, Judy Garland, June Allyson, James Stewart, John Wayne, Van Johnson-were getting suddenly, unconsciously pushed away. Keep history alive, please, and show all of the films that you possibly can for one actor-no matter what the year!- because my blank tape is always ready! Thank you!

[classicsfan1119]

Hi Jamie! I don't know how long you've been able to get TCM's TV Channel, but I've only had the honor and privilege for just over a year, and trust me, all the actors you listed below, and many, many more who are very important to us just like them have had liberal exposure during this time on TCM.

 

It might help you to know that TCM's staff has a variety of "special airings" going on all the time. For example, next month (August) will be their annual event called "Summer Under the Stars", and for each day of the month a different star and lot their movies will be featured. They very often feature a star on his/her birthday, which is also very nice, and they also put together a variety of "themes", like last week's "Crime Drama" theme, and in October we will have a month of Musicals scheduled at different times all through the month. Near Oscar time, they will air some great Oscar contenders and winners for us. TCM makes Christmas especially wonderful for us with it's programming...you're going to love it! Somewhere in all of this great programming, you will undoubtedly see all of your favorites, and gain some new ones, too.

 

Please be sure to check out TCM's Home Page (lots of fun and informative things there for us every month), and especially their Online Schedule (which you can also have them e-mail to you) so that you can see their monthly selections and mark down when to have your tape recorder loaded and ready.

 

Hope this helps you! :)ML

[Jamie]

Gee...that's a lot of info you just gave to me...thanks. I appreciate it.

~Jamie~

[classicsfan1119]

Hi again, Jamie. You mentioned wanting to see John Wayne on TCM, and on Sunday, August 1, there will be a back-to-back line up of only John Wayne movies beginning at 6:00 AM Eastern, and running all the way through until after midnight. There will be selections from his War movies, his Western's ("McLintock!" is a TCM premiere), and also the favorite of many, "The Quiet Man". Please check out TCM's Schedule for all the titles and the times they will air throughout this special "John Wayne Day". :)ML

[evh55]

Hey Jamie! I have only just started to get into the chatrooms at TCM, but I have been a classic movie fan all of my life. Classic is in the eye of the beholder, and, while a film might not be from the 30's or 40's, it can be just as much a classic. If you enjoy it that's all that matters. That's the reason I signed on to these chatrooms, because I love movies so much and I want to be in touch with others like me. And TCM is the best there is. By the way, who was it who mentioned 'Remember WENN' on AMC? I loved the Christmas episode with Betty Buckley as the widow and that great song that she sings. I've never found it anywhere else and would like to know if anyone has any idea if it is available.

[deeanddaisy666]

classics, thanks for the info on Aug. 1...my VCR will get a break from all the crime wave taping!!

 

evh, that would be me. BEFORE they wrote the manager of the station into a bogus SPY vs SPY plot, that show was delightful, warm, and soooo enjoyable.

 

tcmprogrammer, holder of the keys, can TCM wrest 'Remember WENN' away from the classics pretender AMC?

[Jamie]

Thank you. Thank you very much. Oh wait a minute, that's Elvis. Never mind.

[cjrogan2003]

Most of the movies that you guys on TCM seem to regard as classics are obscure B-movies that are long forgotten. My least favorite are those Warner musical shorts that feature hideously mediocre songs that the songwriters KNEW wouldn't be hits and (rightfully so) were forgotten within a year of their release.

 

I cannot bear to listen to any M.K. Jerome/Jack Scholl composition sung by no-hit wonders in 67-year-old musical shorts that are better off locked up in vaults where they belong. "Swinging Through the Kitchen Door" is one of the top 5 worst songs of all time. I try desperately to chase it out of my head, and I feel like strangling everyone of those waitresses when I start thinking about it; its THAT bad.

 

Why did I even LIKE those shorts anyway? Probably because they were in Technicolor. I've learned that just because its in color doesn't mean its always GOOD. In the past year, I have waisted my money buying lame, obscure movies JUST BECAUSE they were in color. I'll give you one example:

 

Loretta Young's "Ramona", from 1936, may be very beautiful and okay to watch once, but I couldn't watch it again and I haven't in about nine months. However, THAT film is vastly superior to any of those Warner musical shorts.

 

Also, when I use to like "Blood and Sand" and any of the other Tyrone Power or Carmen Miranda movies with a Spanish theme to them, I would get constantly reminded of those movies by my mother when I'd talk about Spain or Mexico. I'm like, "I don't have to be reminded of that everytime I think of Hispanic culture". And I WILL watch them again, but ONLY if I'm in the right mood.

 

Finally: movies from from 1946-1967 had far more class and sophistication than anything before ever did. They are the real classics.

[useralx1172]

Personally, the appearance of newer movies on TCM doesn't bother me in and of itself. More than half the time I even agree that their presence may be called for, e.g. in the Hepburn case mentioned below.

 

But on the other hand, I remember the time when AMC was more or less what TCM is now and I remember how their descent to their current deplorable level started. So it makes me slightly nervous whenever I see a "hip" movie from the last 10-20 years on

 

Alex

[ltfripp]

I agree. I'd love it if TCM played 1910s-1940s movies exclusively, but I can certainly understand how 1950s-1970s movies can be 'classics.' But late 80s flicks? I dunno...

 

This makes me think of several questions:

 

1. How does TCM profit without playing commercials, but paying licenses for tons of non Turner-owned movies?

2. Does TCM check these boards every now and then to see what fans think and want?

[chrtbsh]

I've been out of town for a few days; sorry for the scarce posting

 

no need to apologize for anything - this is a great subject

 

our revenue comes from cable systems that pay us a little bit of money based on how many subscribers have us; it isn't a lot, though, compared to the networks like TNT and TBS - when you throw in ad revenue, we are a much smaller business

 

fortunately, the rights for the older movies cost less than the newer ones, but it is very limiting from budget perspective

 

yes, we do check the boards

[ltfripp]

Oh wow, an actual TCM guy replied! hehe

 

Yeah, I figured that revenue purely from subscribership would be very small, but I guess old movies are cheaper to license than I thought.

 

But I absolutely love TCM's approach of not interrupting the film for commercials. That TOTALLY kicks all kind of ****.

 

I doubt I could suggest something that TCM execs haven't considered, but I'll suggest it anyway:

 

Perhaps you could host a poll on the main site, advertised briefly and occasionally on the channel, on which types of movies the viewership would prefer to see more of on TCM (akin to the exciting DVD Decision poll, but simpler).

 

For example, I would certain vote for seeing more silents, but others might vote for more recent movies, or the MST3K crowd might want more 50s sci-fi b-cinema. Or more shots. Whatever. But perhaps a clear winner would present itself and TCM could extend a hand to scratch behind the ears of its viewership.

 

After all, I can only imagine the viewership of TCM is more fanatic than casual - people these days just don't stop on an older movie when they're flipping channels unless they're the sort that watches the TCM schedule anyway. I'm sure the viewership of TCM would be highly opinionated and excited to offer their input to TCM.

 

And, if it turns out people want to see more silent movies more than anything else, then that means even cheaper licensing, right (some of them aren't even copyrighted anymore)?

 

BTW, I just have to say TCM rules. No commercials, the quality of the films is consistently higher than those shown on other regular cable channels, excellent capsule context overviews by people like Robert Osborne, great little featurettes on different filmmakers, cool 'theme' days (like crime, democrats, or John Wayne), and more. Even the little introductory sequences (roll film, one-reel-wonders song, sunny side of life, others) are fun.