RAMBLES Part II

[Bronxgirl48]

Wow, Maven, your review of THREE ON A MATCH and Dvorak is, well, matchless! To tell you the truth, I never cared for this movie over the years except for Ann, who makes Vivian come alive, even if the character itself never seems believable to me. Vivian was probably forced as a child into the family role of "good girl", stifling her thrill-seeking, rebellious nature, until she could finally stand it no longer and had to "break out". (admittedly, marriage to Warren William might do that to a woman) I'm beginning to appreciate Lyle Talbot's acting talent.

 

The story seems so contrived to me -- I couldn't buy Vivien waiting so long to assert her "freedom" and true personality, and then going so dramatically downhill. Obviously for melodramatic purposes this was necessary, but there just wasn't a ring of truth to this script. Warren winding up with ex-jailbird Joan, and they employ mousy Bette to be nursemaid to the kid, come on, lol.

 

Edited by: Bronxgirl48 on Aug 14, 2011 8:02 PM

[CineMaven]

*I ain't all THAT good.*

 

Okay okay. Sheesh, no one can take a compliment around here. Okay:

 

Integrity...check.

Honor...check.

--Sense of fair play...check.-- Hydration...double-check

Genuineness...check.

 

STILL proud to be your pal. Geez!

[JackFavell]

Ha!

[CineMaven]

To tell the absolute unvarnished truth, I believe 90% of films made in the classic era stretched credulity. I suspend my disbelief most of the time. The girl meets boy stories with them meeting in one scene and the next scene they're together...some westerns where our white-hatted hero goes through the whole movie looking for revenge and when he gets the chance, doesn't shoot. The self-sacrificing in some love stories. The romantic triangles which I know what line will be said having never seen the movie before. Peoples of color get short shrift. There are contrivances up and down movies of the 30's, the 40's, the 50's.

 

If I were to look a tiny bit closer and were real ****...I probably wouldn't like classic films as too silly, utterly unbelievable.

 

But I do love classic films...and unless it's an absolute egregious thing, like all of sudden Clark Gable sprouts wings and flies, I buy it all hook, line and sinker. "THREE ON A MATCH" case in point.

 

I accept what the movie tells me...this young woman is unhappy, goes out with the wrong man and disaster ensues. I know...that makes me a prize idjit for accepting the premise. Okey dokey.

 

I hear what you're saying as a literary person, an educator. But ring of truth? I am not looking for truth or realism in classic films. Maybe naturalism. How many issues can be settled in a movie if the hero just says one thing; but if they say the one thing, the movie's over in a half an hour. I liked the reversal of fortune with Dvorak and Blondell. As for mousy Bette The Nursemaid...what struck me with that was the fact that that was even Bette Davis. She was a different human being from what she grew into. This little blonde girl, so thin, so girlish in a bathing suit...how could this be the same woman Julie or Margo or Regina or Leslie or Mildred.

 

Lyle Talbot. He's piqued my curiosity. I'll be looking to cross paths with him again.

[CineMaven]

:-)

[CineMaven]

"THE LADY ASTOR"

 

 

"In the comedy Midnight, Mary has these few scenes where she lets the b**chiness drop, and she takes my breath away, every time I watch. The hurt on her face when Francis Lederer walks away with Claudette Colbert....there is so much more to it than just losing a man - it's fear - she is losing her youth. The way she and Barrymore come together at the end, and she tells him she doesn't mind that it's just the two of them, after all.... it's so touching, partly because of their real life relationship years before, and just because Mary's voice is so warm toward him." JACK FAVELL - 7/31 - 9:42PM

 

I watched "MIDNIGHT." And I enjoyed it.

 

Watching classic films for me is a matter of assessing and reassessing my reassessments. Stars fall in and out of favor with me. Reading others' thoughts also help guide me. You talked up this movie when you wrote that nice piece on Mary Astor. So I thought I'd give it a looksee.

 

You're right...it wouldn't have been a film that I'd initiate checking out. I can take or leave farce. But since I was in for a penny, in for a pound...here I am. It was great the way the plot twisted and turned, making the truth sound like lies. Barrymore. What a hambone he is, isn't he. When I saw Drew Barrymore speak at the TCM Film Festival, she said she felt close to her grandfather. But a hambone he is. I like Don Ameche's way. And yes Francis Lederer is a cutie pie. I liked when he took Claudette to her "hotel" and he said: " 'To her door,' my mother said." But my main purpose was to check out Mary. Then Claudette came into my sights.

 

She was very good. I feel sometime-y about her, but I must really reassess my crazy ol' notions. First off, she does have that voice, low and sultry. And her comic timing...I have to say is great. I like her line deliveries. And she flattens them out, she doesn't punch 'em. She doesn't get all cutesy and girly, but says them with bite...a little sarcasm.... sophistication. She looks good in clothes and had chemistry with Don Ameche. Geez, he's a handsome firecracker. Yes yes of course love wins out over money. I know that, I accept that, I go with that.

 

But then there's Mary.

 

At the risk of being repetitive, you've said it all. She's all that you say she is. In "MIDNIGHT" she was hurt, she was a beeyotch, she was jealous...and she could play them all...with subtlety. I watch her when the attention is not on her. She's still engaged in the scene. She has that contralto voice but there's a difference between hers and Colbert's voice. Of course I can't describe it adequately, but Astor's voice has the sheen and the ping of an object striking a champagne glass. And she can toss off a line or a look with the sharp marksmanship of Annie Oakley. Please don't make me do her mother roles ("Meet Me In St. Louis") but if I get my hands on the wild and woolly Preston Sturges, I'll give "The Palm Beach Story" another whirl.

 

I've been reading the article that you cited from "Bright Lights..." Well-written. I'm learning a lot about Astor. I didn't know that her parents were horrors from hell. And that she had soooo many lovers. Makes a girl well-rounded. I think Astor's life experience adds to her womanly persona. I did have one teensy issue with what the author said about "The Great Lie."

 

"The pinnacle of this Other Woman phase came in Edmund Goulding's "THE GREAT LIE." It's the kind of soap opera that gives 'women's pictures' a bad name... Astor is marvelous, managing to boost the film from unwatchable to merely dreadful."

 

Dreadful? DREADFUL? She's way the heck off base with that remark. I enjoyed the film very much. Made in 1941 looking at it with twenty-first century eyes...the author's too smart for her own good.

 

**********

 

Watched "THE WOLFMAN" after I came home from my Robert Ryan fix at the Film Forum. (He was a berry berry bad man in "The Naked Spur" gaming everyone, finding the **** in their armor and then needling them to death as he tried to divide and conquer the group of men who were out to take him back for a reward. P.S. Ralph Meeker is quite quite interesting). Back to "The Wolfman" - I am struck by Lon Chaney Jr. He's so big with broad shoulders, wide lapels and a great fedora. He has an easy natural manner of giving out his lines. (He is not the inarticulate Lenny of "Of Mice and Men"). And he actually could have been a romantic lead. Oh, not in the 'pretty boy' mold...but I was checking out how he put the moves on Evelyn Ankers. Oh yeah, I could go for a wolf man in a big way.

 

...And today will be his father's 24-hour day with TCM. Enjoy Lon Chaney.

[JackFavell]

I've been watching Lon Sr. all morning. I still bawled my eyes out at *HE Who Gets Slapped*, after not seeing it for what seems like a hundred years.

 

I KNEW you were going to balk at the review of *THE GREAT LIE*. I know I did. And see, that's where my suspension of disbelief falls into place. You said it best: I don't go to classic films for REALITY. If I wanted that, I'd go look in the mirror, or at Hoarders (shudder) or something.

 

but I do go to classic films for TRUTH. And there is truth in The Great Lie, even if the plot stretches credulity...which I'm not sure it really does.... How many of us have a skeleton in the closet (Sorry - I just cracked myself up by accidentally writing Skelton) in our family history - turns out Aunt Sally was really Doris' mom rather than her aunt?

 

Yes, the writers had to have a way for adoption issues to be talked about, outside of unwed motherhood, because of the code.... but there is still something to learn from this movie, and it's a hell of an entertaining ride. So basically I don't care if it's realistic or not. But I do understand that some movies allow me to pull the wool over my own eyes better than others..... I find it really hard to block out sensible thought at the end of *A Summer Place* - really? It's all going to work out OK after all that? No way, man.

 

We all have our own thresholds for the suspension of our disbelief. I don't believe that *Juarez* was anything like Paul Muni's mummy-like portrayal of him.... maybe the man was more like Joseph Calleia. But Muni might be Bronxie's raison d'etre...so I walk carefully when mentioning how stupid I thought his characterization was. (Not really, I just think he carried the still, quiet, calm thing too far. And see how I worked Joe into the dialogue? )

 

I adore *Midnight* . It has steadily come up in my estimation ever since I saw it a year or two ago until it's in my top ten list. I absolutely love the movie, the cast is TO DIE FOR.... I have a tiny yen for Don Ameche, and Claudette was never better. I LOVE the scene (which just keep on building) where she gets to the hotel she is NOT staying at, only to find a resplendent room all to herself. Then she wakes up to find a wardrobe, a car, and a chauffeur at her disposal. Her talking out loud to herself is great.

 

Barrymore is a ham yes, but his character is so oddly touching, I forgive him. I find this to be one of his really great roles, he's super. Mary, well she's sublime, and I have a big yen for Francis "****" Lederer. One of my favorite actors, Rex O'Malley, makes a wonderful conniving, catty and sassy best friend for Astor's Helene. Check him out in *Camille* for another PERFECT portrayal.

 

I don;t know if you will like *Palm Beach Story*, but it's another favorite of mine, and I appreciate you wandering farther afield to find more Mary Astor films. Mary is the best thing in the movie, unless of course you like looking at Joel McCrea - and I DO.

 

Oh, and while we're at it, what I really like about Claudette is her common sense. You hit on this - She is no blushing girlish ingenue. At her best, she is the thinking woman's role model. The city girl who wants nothing except to _keep on being who she is,_ whether her man is Joel McCrea or Don Ameche or Fred MacMurray. If he's bought a farm, she'll gamely try farm life, but the truth is, she is better at shopping than at milking cows. And I can certainly relate! Claudette makes no apologies for herself. She is what she is, a woman, and that is pretty darn good.

 

Edited by: JackFavell on Aug 15, 2011 1:58 PM

[movieman1957]

I love "Palm Beach Story." IF there is anything wrong it is that, at times, they talk so fast it is a little hard to understand.

 

McCrea and Colbert are very romantic at times.

[JackFavell]

Ha! it's taken me years to figure out all the lines in Palm Beach Story, and I still am surprised every time I see it.

 

They are very warm together.

The zipper scene.... sigh

[movieman1957]

That is exactly what I was thinking about. I often wonder if that little kiss between her shoulder blades was improvised. This was just a tease compared to the front stoop scene in "The More The Merrier."

[JackFavell]

I know! That scene always makes me think of the one with Jean Arthur.... when I can think at all.

 

The prices in John D. Hackensacker III's notebook always astound me:

 

 

[movieman1957]

"3 brassieres (fancy)"

 

As opposed to?

[Bronxgirl48]

But what I mean about THREE ON A MATCH is that the contrivances were just too...contrived, lol, if that makes any sense. (don't answer) I need some subtlety and naturalism if I'm going to have my belief suspended for any length of time, and this includes the wildest plots in sci/fi and horror films. If the script makes me think something's in the distinct realm of possibility, then I buy it. I'm still afraid of mountains because I just know THE CRAWLING EYE lies behind one on a cloud, waiting to come for me if I dare show my face anywhere near Mont Blanc-Chamoix.

[JackFavell]

> {quote:title=movieman1957 wrote:}{quote}"3 brassieres (fancy)"

>

> As opposed to?

 

Heeheeheehee....

[CineMaven]

BAWLING:

 

I've been watching Lon Sr. all morning. I still bawled my eyes out at HE Who Gets Slapped, after not seeing it for what seems like a hundred years.

 

Whoa. When Lon wants to get you, he gets you. A good movie always pulls you in. Laugh clown, laugh...I dare ya.

 

BALKING:

 

I KNEW you were going to balk at the review of THE GREAT LIE. I know I did.

 

Yeah. Aaaargh! These young whipper-snappers talking about things they know not.

 

WE HOLD THESE TRUTHS TO BE SELF-EVIDENT:

 

And see, that's where my suspension of disbelief falls into place... but I do go to classic films for TRUTH. And there is truth in The Great Lie, even if the plot stretches credulity...which I'm not sure it really does....

 

I mis-spoke. I should not have said "TRUTH." Movies should and do have truths in them and movies should have the ring of truth to them. Let me amend my statement.

 

PULL UP YOUR SUSPENDERS:

 

We all have our own thresholds for the suspension of our disbelief...

 

Yes, of course you're right. I choose to have mine a little higher, but not where today's modern movies are concerned. Today...they'd better make sense at $12.50 a pop. (Which reminds me, I've still got to go see "Cowboys and Aliens.") And I saw how you wheedled Joe into your argument. Ha! You Calleian minx!

 

I adore Midnight . It has steadily come up in my estimation ever since I saw it a year or two ago until it's in my top ten list. I absolutely love the movie, the cast is TO DIE FOR....

 

Yes, the hotel scene WAS funny. I liked when she didn't realize she was looking at her OWN reflection in the mirror. And I liked her talking to herself too. She gave herself a litmus test to see if she was still herself and even gave herself a caustic response in the privacy of her mind. You know, seeing "MIDNIGHT" and "THE AWFUL TRUTH" in such close proximity to each other...I now really truly see the casting genius of putting Ralph Bellamy and Don Ameche together as brothers in "TRADING PLACES." Eddie Murphy would have done well to learn all he could from those two gentlemen veterans. I hope he spent time picking their brains apart while on set.

 

One of my favorite actors, Rex O'Malley, makes a wonderful conniving, catty and sassy best friend for Astor's Helene. Check him out in Camille for another PERFECT portrayal.

 

Sassy? ("What...what...what are you doing?!") Certainly I know Rex. I remember him from "CAMILLE" and no better friend can a society matron have but a well-dressed escort who can help her shop, plan assignations...and play a mean hand of Bridge. He's very good. And I love how you described Claudette Colbert. I'll be giving her another real chance based on your comments, and will keep an open mind about her. You know, there are none so blind as those who cannot see.

[CineMaven]

Oh for Pete's Sake!!!!

 

Edited by: CineMaven on Aug 16, 2011 10:45 AM, I can't even read this.

[CineMaven]

But what I mean about THREE ON A MATCH is that the contrivances were just too...contrived, lol, if that makes any sense. (don't answer) I need some subtlety and naturalism if I'm going to have my belief suspended for any length of time, and this includes the wildest plots in sci/fi and horror films.

 

I see Bronxie...I hear ya. We're willing audience members, we want to believe; if they can just give us a little common sense...and make things believable. Which reminds me, I have to see "THE GIANT CLAW" again.

[JackFavell]

> {quote:title=CineMaven wrote:}{quote}BAWLING:

>

> *I've been watching Lon Sr. all morning. I still bawled my eyes out at HE Who Gets Slapped, after not seeing it for what seems like a hundred years.*

 

I watched *He*, and *The Unholy Three* (1925), my two Chaney favorites. I got everything but *The Hunchback*, *The Unholy Three* (1930) and *Ace of Hearts* recorded, darn it. I really wanted to see *Ace of Hearts*, but could not wake up in time. I did compare the two *Unholies* and still found the silent version better.

 

What always astounds me is how good looking Chaney was, and yet he hid himself under makeup and character for the major part of his career. He never fails to make me shed a tear at his heartbreak. His face is a goldmine - he can register evil, hardness, weakness, greed, deepening pain and loss, sweetness, humiliation, agony, want, self-loathing, deluded joy, you name the character trait or emotion and it's at his fingertips. I wait through each movie for him to simply lift one of his massive expressive hands in the air. He's terribly, terribly modern and yet, rather old fashioned at the same time - I guess that's what timeless is. We still recognize what he does to express longing or pain, and it's no cartoon. It's pure emotion, cathartic and deep, dramatic but never overdone.

 

CANTANKEROUS KVETCHING ALERT

 

When was the last time you saw Johnny Depp, Matt Damon or any of the stars nowadays really express any of those emotions I listed above? We have boiled down naturalistic acting so far that there is no depth anymore, no expression at all, it's really just a flicker of movement and the director cuts away so the actors don't strain themselves by actually having to act. Not that that's the actor's fault.... I really despise the way movies have (in general) taken all the emotion out of drama. Now drama is a guy staring into space cryptically. Ennui is the emotion of the day. Normal is the word, and I don't really want to see the everyday. Used to be, there were actors who were considered the best of their generation. Lon Chaney, Spencer Tracy, Marlon Brando..... these men expressed pure, _strong_ , sometimes conflicting and complex emotions. But when I try to wrack my brains as to who might be this generation's best actor, the only actors I know who have actually shown any emotion in recent films are Philip Seymour Hoffman, Daniel Day Lewis and Javier Bardem. I know some would include Leo in there, but to me, he is another cipher - someone who squeaks out a tear and everyone says it's earth shattering when it's merely OK. These stars now know how to pick scripts, I will give them that. Anyhow, to pick someone as the greatest actor nowadays seems almost ridiculous, given the climate of underwhelming emotion. 'Great' just doesn't really fit. A beacon of light to future generations? I don't know. Are we in a doldrum? Oh yeah...Jeff Bridges is pretty darn good.

 

END OF TIRADE

 

>Yes, of course you're right. I choose to have mine a little higher, but not where today's modern movies are concerned. Today...they'd better make sense at $12.50 a pop.

 

I am not one to pass up the chance to go to the movies, and I find that there are some really good movies out there, mostly with women who I like. But when filmmakers take the primary reason out of going to the movies, I get P.O'd. I want to see a grown man cry for a change!!!! Dang it, I want my money's worth! I ain't shelling out the big bucks for ennui.

 

> Yeah. Aaaargh! These young whipper-snappers talking about things they know not.

 

 

Don't get me started on writers and critics nowadays, after that last vitriolic diatribe. I'm really a pretty easygoing person, who can accept change and doesn't get too upset over things. But.....

 

> Yes, the hotel scene WAS funny. I liked when she didn't realize she was looking at her OWN reflection in the mirror. And I liked her talking to herself too. She gave herself a litmus test to see if she was still herself and even gave herself a caustic response in the privacy of her mind. You know, seeing "MIDNIGHT" and "THE AWFUL TRUTH" in such close proximity to each other...I now really truly see the casting genius of putting Ralph Bellamy and Don Ameche together as brothers in *"TRADING PLACES."* Eddie Murphy would have done well to learn all he could from those two gentlemen veterans. I hope he spent time picking their brains apart while on set.

 

Ha! I never thought of it that way, but I really loved them together in that movie. They show the rest how it's done.

 

Thanks for the compliment on why I like Claudette. She's a smart cookie and that's got to count for something in this world.... *Cleopatra* _should_ be smarter than anyone in her own picture!

 

Edited by: JackFavell on Aug 16, 2011 1:14 PM

[CineMaven]

CANTANKEROUS KVETCHING ALERT A MUST-READ!!!!

 

Cut!!! Print!!! Publish!!!

 

Eloquently expressed Jack. I agree, but could never in a million years expressed it as you did. I'm trying to read it with a J.J. Hunsecker inflection.

 

WoW!!!

 

The thing today is that we're living in today's times. And if we didn't know better...if we didn't have "Before" (music, movies) we'll think this stuff is great. So then it gets distilled and reduced and everyone makes a "big whoop!" about how innovative or intense so and so is. There might be a dozen who can really pull out the stops and reach into the depths of human emotion. They might not be the ones making twenty million dollars a picture. (Re: Hoffman, have you ever seen "BEFORE THE DEVIL KNOWS YOU'RE DEAD"? Whew!!! Hoffman opposite Albert Finney).

 

What you say is probably endemic to the whole film industry and its cottage industry off-shoots...those one-hit wonders and baby moguls who have a big office and all of sudden think they're King. Forget about looking at big-Hollywood-films for depth. Maybe it's in indie films? Maybe we need better writers to expressively write about conflicting emotions. Or maybe it's just a remote control away via watching TCM. Judy Davis, Tilda Swinton take on complexities, I think. Julia Roberts takes a paycheck. (I loved her in the 90's but my reasons weren't good then either). No the moguls have "Sequel"-ed us to DEATH. "Iron Man II, III, XV." I don't go in with the expectation of seeing Olivier or even Cary Grant. Hell, I just accepted and lived with Roger Moore as James Bond for years 'cuz that was all we had.

 

Aaaaah movies...I let the entertainment wash over my brain like water off a duck's back. I can pick out some nuggets of films...of performances...of moments of performances. May I recommend a movie for you if you haven't seen it already? It's an Argentinian film I saw at the Angelika in 2009 called "THE SECRET IN THEIR EYES." It was the most devastating film I've ever seen. I cannot say anymore than that...but I urge you to watch it when the baby is asleep. No pat answers...no pat solutions.

 

I cannot touch what you wrote below JackaaaAaaay. I wonder what your kidling will have as film icons to admire when she is twenty? Thirty? Forty? Aye yi yi. You'd better keep those dvds handy for her as inheritance for her.

 

Great writing, Jack.

 

END OF GUSHING

[JackFavell]

Ha! And you think what I wrote was good? You have me beat by a green mile. Maybe if I write near you a little talent will rub off on me.

[CineMaven]

If this morning's Jean Gabin film *"Le Jour Se Leve"* looked familiar...you might have seen it during ANN DVORAK's day as *"THE LONG NIGHT"* with Henry Fonda, Barbara Bel Geddes and Vincent Price.

[JackFavell]

I had no idea they were the same story!

 

I watched the end of *Guele D'Amour* (what a great movie!), and kicked myself for not getting up in time to record that one. Gabin completely captured me. ooooh, he's smoky! like scotch, he's harsh at first sip but warm once you swallow. I never knew..... :x

 

And golly, he was doing this before Bogie really hit his stride....

 

Luckily, I'm recording all the rest of Gabin, except for *Grand Illusion* and *La Bete Humaine*, which I already have, but haven't actually watched.

 

I think I'm in love.

[JackFavell]

> {quote:title=movieman1957 wrote:}{quote}*I think I'm in love.*

>

> Again?

 

Always.

[Bronxgirl48]

Eloquent as always, Jackie, this time around on Chaney, Sr

 

Don't get me started on ennui, post-modernism, "hip"-ness, and irony, because I would start kvetching till the cows came home.

 

Edited by: Bronxgirl48 on Aug 18, 2011 7:47 PM

[CineMaven]

I didn't check out Jean Gabin today. Your descriptions always fill me with regret for what I didn't do. Enjoy!

 

...And I'm happy TCM added Gabin to their roster of stars.