RAMBLES Part II

[CineMaven]

Thanxx so much Ro- ...and you too, Sans Fin, for the good wishes. Ha! I'm an endless fountain alrighty...but of what, is questionable.

 

Yes, Robert Osborne is back!!! (Yay!) And I join the throngs who are very happpppy to see him, where He belongs.

[MissGoddess]

Boy, yesterday was a landmark day!

CONGRATULATIONS to a TCM original femme fatale:

CINEMAVEN

For reaching 12K lethal posts!!!

 

Welcome to the club.

 

 

Yes, Gene, that's T-Mave!

 

OK, we all need a cigarette after reading one of CinemAva's witty rambles.

 

[CineMaven]

WHOAAAA!!

 

My thanks to you for the acknowledgment Elsa. I'm VERY flattered by this presentation. This took thought.

 

...And that's right, Gene *better* look over her shoulder.

 

She stole my sunglasses!

 

Thanxx so much Miss G. :^0

[JackFavell]

[allaboutlana]

I wanted to everyone's thoughts on David and Bathsheba. I was interested in it, because I like Susan Hayward but was wary of another dull biblical movie. Any thoughts?

[CineMaven]

Holy Cow!!! On my very best day, with ALL of TCM's make-up artists working on me, I could never look like Elaine Stewart standing on that staircase, waitin' for your boy. Thanxxx soooo much Jaxxon, for the acknowledgment. I appreciate it. I'll make the next 12,000 posts really m...hey...hey...where you goin'? Come back Shane...come back little Sheba...come back Jackie......

 

Well...uhm...maybe there won't be 12,000.

 

Thanx JackaaAaay!

 

Whew!!! Look at those little legs run...

[wouldbestar]

 

I have seen it a time or two. It is okay if just for Gregory Peck, Raymond Massey, Jayne Meadows, and Susan. It is in color and has beautiful costumes so it's a treat for the eyes.

 

 

The movie follows the Bibical account but adds "my wife dosen't understand me" and "my husband's all wrapped up in his work" plotlines to make the adultry by both seem okay. In David's case this is in the book but Bathshebs's reasons are conjecture. There is a lot more "soap opera" tied into the story that detracts from the film.

 

 

Susan's performamnce is good but redheads seem out of place in mid-eastern Israel. Jayne Meadows is one too but has a head covering in her scenes and makes the discarded wife, Michal, sympathic and her attempts at revenge believable.

 

 

You might want to give it one look and might find it a worthwhile 2 hours.

 

 

 

 

 

[movieman1957]

Have you seen "The Naked Kiss"? What a weird film. Sordid and full of bizarre characters it is a puzzlement to watch.

 

The opening shows Constance Towers (Kelly) beating a guy senseless with her purse. He owes her some money. He seems a bit of a wimp for letting himself get beat up but in her line of work people often owe her money.

 

Golden hearted revenge minded prostitute takes up life in a new town. She runs the gamut of protector, mother hen to the other girls and ultimately girl in trouble for all her trouble.

 

Trying to get a new life is not so easy when you've tried to change your life. And whatever good deeds Kelly tries to do all comes back to bite her.

 

Mostly its a straight drama that turns very noirish along the way. It is often confusing but appropriately bitter. The longer it goes the uglier and more sordid it gets but the confusion is tied up in the end. I cam close to stopping it but while I can't say I liked it a lot but I'm glad I saw it through.

 

Patsy Kelly has a nice small role. An inside joke early on has Kelly walk by a theater that is showing "Shock Corrider" which happened to be Fuller's previous film.

[MissGoddess]

 

Hi, movieman! Yes I've seen *The Naked Kiss*, we talked a little about it in the "Walk on the Noir Side" thread, I believe.

 

*THE NAKED KISS* SPOILERS

 

I totally agree with your reaction...it's exactly how I saw it the first time I watched. It was all you say. I felt like I needed a shower after, yet it got under my skin and I really do admire that Fuller is showing us how these people, people like Kelly, basically are doing what they can with the cards they've been dealt by a world founded on bitterly wicked unfairness. They've sinned but they've been sinned against far more. Look how slimy the cop was...how long it took him to see the truth. Because he'd had truth cynicalled out of him along time ago. He thought no one could fool him. His best pal was a saint. Why? Because he was his pal or was he fooled by the respectable front, too, even though he thought he was too "wise" to care about such things? Lots of "naked truths". How innocence gets raped. It's a thoroughly tough film that I don't know if I could ever watch again. Constance was great.

 

Hopefully, FrankGrimes will reply to you because he really liked the movie and understood it better than I could explain it.

 

Edited by: MissGoddess on Dec 2, 2011 8:28 PM

[movieman1957]

I was torn between whether it was noir or just drama. By the end I figured it was more noir but I was here.

 

Thanks so much for your thoughts. It's nice to know I didn't necessarily miss something. I hope Sir Francis comes on. I should do some searching in the Noir thread.

 

About Towers, I really only knew her from "The Horse Soldiers." At least now I know there is much more to her.

[MissGoddess]

I give up trying to pigeon hole movies as this genre/style or that. I'm terrible at it and it really doesn't matter to me, except as a topic for conversation. I pretty much lump everything but westerns and musicals as "drama" or "comedy".

[movieman1957]

With such a hole in the Search funtion do you have any idea of when you two talked about it?

[MissGoddess]

It was definitely this year, no earlier. Over the summer, in fact. I'm sure Grimes knows better, and I'm pretty sure it was in the Walk on the Noir Side thread.

[SansFin]

I was searching for a thing like that recently. I found JackFavell's comments on the page:

http://forums.tcm.com/thread.jspa?messageID=8353994

I could not go forward or back from that page.

 

I hope this is of help.

[movieman1957]

She talks about "Kiss of Death" on that page which is another great film and a favorite of my bride.

 

I appreciate you looking. For the record on any thread where there are more than one thousand posts if you want to go to another page you have to go up in the heading and take out the comma in the number that is almost all the way to the right in that space.

[FrankGrimes]

Good evening, Movieman! -- *Have you seen "The Naked Kiss"?*

 

Yes! I watched it for the very first time in early June of this year. And, for the record, I don't believe I discussed it on the board. I did so in private with Fordy Guns.

 

 

I ranked the film in my little "watched" grouping, but I don't believe we ever got around to talking about it:

 

 

http://forums.tcm.com/thread.jspa?threadID=125844&start=1620&tstart=0

 

 

*What a weird film. Sordid and full of bizarre characters it is a puzzlement to watch.*

 

 

"Sordid" is a great word for it. It's very "Fuller." Fuller liked to present those from the street as the normal ones and the socially-accepted as the abnormal ones. *The Naked Kiss* is all about this.

 

*Golden hearted revenge minded prostitute takes up life in a new town. She runs the gamut of protector, mother hen to the other girls and ultimately girl in trouble for all her trouble.*

 

 

And I loved how Kelly (Costance Towers) did become a "mother." She did quite well to transform her life for the better. I loved how she felt loved. But then...

 

 

*Trying to get a new life is not so easy when you've tried to change your life. And whatever good deeds Kelly tries to do all comes back to bite her.*

 

 

That's your film noir.

 

 

*Mostly its a straight drama that turns very noirish along the way. It is often confusing but appropriately bitter. The longer it goes the uglier and more sordid it gets but the confusion is tied up in the end.*

 

 

I was shocked by the major turn of events. It's definitely a film ahead of its time.

 

 

*I cam close to stopping it but while I can't say I liked it a lot but I'm glad I saw it through.*

 

 

Really? Oh, I'd never do that with a film.

 

 

*The Naked Kiss* has one of my very favorite musical numbers. It's sensational.

[CineMaven]

The Naked Kiss has one of my very favorite musical numbers. It's sensational.

 

Then you ought to see the dance number by Anita Ekberg in "Screaming Mimi."

[movieman1957]

Good morning Sir Francis. "The Naked Kiss" has, for my tastes, one of the longest setups. It also looks like Fuller right from the start. The opening scene was a bit of a shock and I thought gave a sense of what was coming. Well, it was but it took it awhile.

 

Some of it didn't make any sense. It seemed to jump around and I thought there were times I missed something. But he really turned it on the the 30 minutes or so and I must say he pulled it all together.

 

BTW, that link takes me back to August of 2008. Is that too far?

 

Edited by: movieman1957 on Dec 3, 2011 9:21 AM

[FrankGrimes]

Good early morning to you, Movieman -- *"The Naked Kiss" has, for my tastes, one of the longest setups.*

 

Could you elaborate on that? I'm not sure I follow you.

 

*It also looks like Fuller right from the start. The opening scene was a bit of a shock and I thought gave a sense of what was coming. Well, it was but it took it awhile.*

 

What did you expect was coming? The opening does make you wonder what you're about to watch. Cheap and sleazy?

 

*Some of it didn't make any sense. It seemed to jump around and I thought there were times I missed something. But he really turned it on the the 30 minutes or so and I must say he pulled it all together.*

 

What were you struggling to make sense of?

 

*BTW, that link takes me back to August of 2008. Is that too far?*

 

Really? The link goes back to June of this year for me. Strange.

[movieman1957]

*Could you elaborate on that? I'm not sure I follow you.*

 

I felt for the first half of the movie there were different things going on and sometimes without any connection. The part about her working at the hospital just happened. It took me a minute or two to figure out if we were in a flashback or talking about someone else. I think the story ids going one way and it stops and goes another.

 

Not until, for me, about the hour mark does it all seem to come together and start to make some sense. I readily admit it is me and maybe my mindset for the time. A lot of these lines finally get to a point where I think I finally get it but it took a long time. I found it confusing but I may be alone there.

[kingrat]

Although I wasn't confused by *The Naked Kiss*, I think most of it is a hot mess with mediocre acting. Imagine a 1970 version with Jane Fonda, Gene Hackman, and Donald Sutherland in the major roles, and it would be a better film. I do like the opening, but the crippled kiddies singing "Mommie Dear" to the reformed hooker is so revoltingly sentimental it nearly sent me to the hospital in a diabetic coma. The twist in the film is excellent, but the courtroom drama segment is way too predictable--this kind of story has been done too many times.

 

Of the 13 Fuller films I've seen, the only two I'm enthusiastic about are *Pickup on South Street* and *The Steel Helmet*, though I have a sneaking fondness for *The Crimson Kimono*, thanks to James Shigeta. Fifty years ago Fuller was a discovery; today he looks like one of the most overrated directors.

[FrankGrimes]

*I do like the opening, but the crippled kiddies singing "Mommie Dear" to the reformed hooker is so revoltingly sentimental it nearly sent me to the hospital in a diabetic coma.*

 

That's the musical number that I absolutely love. But I'm definitely more about sentimentality than cynicism. I love how Kelly (Constance Towers) is finding her own dignity through these disadvantaged children. I love the hope that's found within that song. A hope that is truly needed when you are swimming upstream in life and society.

 

Mommy dear, tell me please, is the world really round

Tell me where is the bluebird of happiness

Tell me why is the sky up above so blue

And when you were a child, did your mommy tell you

 

What becomes of the sun when it falls in the sea

And who lights it again as bright can be

Tell me why I can't fly without wings through the sky

Tell me why, Mommy dear, are there tears in your eyes

 

Little ones, little ones, yes, the world's really round

And the bluebird you search for is surely found

And the sky up above is so blue and clear

So that you'll see the bluebird if it should come near

 

And the sun doesn't fall in the sea out of sight

All it does is make way for the moon's pretty light

And if children could fly there'd be no need for birds

And I cry, little ones, 'cause I'm touched by your words

 

Don't be sad, Mommy dear, if it's true the world is round

I will search round the world till the bluebird is found

 

Little one, there's no need to wander too far

For what you really seek is right here where you are

 

Show me where, Mommy dear, and here's what I will do

I will take the dear bluebird I will give it to you

 

Dear, the bluebird's the love in your heart, pure and true

And I found it the day Heaven blessed me with you

 

Children look to their elders for care and guidance. When that faith and trust is broken, worlds fall apart.

[MissGoddess]

I agree that Fuller doesn't insert a scene like that without a reason and to make a point. If he were a professional boxer, they'd say of him that he "never pulls his punches". That's true of his violent scenes, but it's equally true of a scene like that.

[FrankGrimes]

I find it absolutely amazing that a prostitute, who we see beat a "John" for owing her money at the outset of the film, is now singing a song of hope to disadvantaged children. That's pretty darn remarkable to me. Sam Fuller's films often expose the ugliness of Society through the "ugliness" of society.

[MissGoddess]

> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote} Sam Fuller's films often expose the ugliness of Society through the "ugliness" of society.

 

And that's the only reason I can stomach (mostly) what he deals out, because he's not doing these things with an exploitative intent. In a way, the singing scene is as daring as anything he ever did because it's Fuller and again he's kind of thumbing his nose at those who pretend to admire boldness when in fact are merely titillated by the kind of exploitation he exposes and at the same time, he's also exposing those who pretend to "bless the little children and the animals" when in fact they're destroying their innocence. I admit it took me a while to find these things in Fuller. He's so in-your-face you think it must be some kind of joke. Well, I guess it is, maybe he was laughing a bit at some folks.

 

Did you ever wonder if he made his films not only about the fringe characters in society, but for them, and that's why they're so boldly drawn? He seldom went in for subtlety or slyness, which usually is about the director not the subject. He seemed to care passionately about subject matter, like a journalist does.