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_Hola, Laffite_ -- *Hi Frank, I threw this out but couldn't get you to bite :) However, I do want to say something about this and then we can re-put the capper on this one. Just that some of those things that Dave said to friend (DeanM) contain the seeds of what is popularly referred to as a spiritual experience, a new way of looking at things; realizing that we might not know what is really in our own best interest, helping others, etc, and although I am sort of pleased with looking at Dave that way I have to admit at the same time, it's a guilty pleasure because normally I find myself on the other side of the question, i.e. the cynic/realist/don't-really-believe-in-all-that-crap school...*

 

I'm certain that's what the film is going for with Dave. That he has had an epiphany. If one is to be hopeful, that's how you'd definitely view Dave by film's end. I'm more skeptical about him. I think it's very difficult to change who we are at the core. I do believe we can come to appreciate different kinds of people and love as we mature. But can a person overlook what really stimulates them inside? That's where it gets tricky.

 

*One last harrowing thought. Suppose they rode off into the sunset at story's end and then one day sometime later, having an after-dinner drink on the veranda, she should casually say to him, "Oh, did I ever tell you about my conversation with that school teacher. It was just before you proposed to me, I told her about us and she had the most awful look on her face." So much for spiritual experience. Instead, I think we're looking at homicide. But that's another movie, one let's hope that never gets made. :D*

 

Ha! That's another fantastic scene in the film. I just love Ginnie and her small mind, big heart. It's hard not to love her. And I love Gwen and her inability to free herself from her self-torture. Such great characters. And I tend to be a mix of all them. I'm very big on "puppy dog love" (Ginnie), intellectual stimulation (Dave), and self-torture (Gwen). This is probably why I love the film. I identify with it so much.

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Over on FaceBook, Moira posted a great article about Sara Haden ( of "Andy Hardy" fame )

 

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...from a website :

 

http://immortalephemera.com/48083/sara-haden-captain-january/

 

Jack Favell writing this comment:

 

Wow, she was beautiful... You can see the resemblance to her later self. I think she had a beautiful face and figure later on as well, just not the 'norm' for beauty. The studios might have played this up if she hadn't been locked into playing so many spinsters and sourpusses. It would have been nice to see her get a role that really delved, and brought her out the other end as a beauty - her own version of The Enchanted Cottage, maybe? So many lovely women of stature in films didn't really get to exhibit their looks - Agnes Moorehead, Barbara O'Neill, Aline MacMahon, even Gale Sondergaard, who was far more glamorous wasn't always showcased as such."

 

...prompts me to create this collage:

 

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Watching *Lawrence of Arabia* the other day, I was struck by something so obvious, you may all laugh at me for even posting this. For me it was a revelation.

 

Halfway through the first half of the film, Lawrence is sitting thinking on the ground, in the background is a low lying bluff of cliffs. It's so remote that it is veiled in mist or cloud cover, but I could make out a flat topped ridge behind him. He says, "Aqaba.". He stands and looks out over the desert as excitement overtakes him. The ridge behind him got me excited, because all I could think of was John Ford. I wish I had a screen cap from the scene, but I don't own the movie. I suddenly became aware that Lean's Arabian desert was very much like Ford's Monument Valley and other locations that Ford used.

 

It completely makes sense, both men were artists, both loved the landscape and the earth, and both men had something interesting to say about the military, imperialism, and men's souls, and both really understood man's cosmic place in the universe. Plus a lot of other things. They aren't that far removed from one another.

 

So on I watched as the battle of Aqaba took place, and more and more I saw flashes of Ford in each composition. This section of Lawrence of Arabia is filled with subtle Ford textures and moments. I don't know that Lean actually studied Ford, or that he formed his compositions because of Ford. But it's a strange coincidence if he did not, right down to his use of red in battle. I think Lean possibly took from Ford and made the compositions his own, expanding or refining to suit his own purposes. Here are just a few shots that suddenly seemed infused with Fordian meaning (click on the photos to see the side by side comparisons):

 

photo lawrence.jpg

 

photo 3godfathers.jpg

 

photo tumblr_marnisP6PO1re4uqoo1_1280.png

 

photo FortApache_apacheclose.png

 

photo she_wore_a_yellow_ribbon-LawrenceofArabia.jpg

 

Edited by: JackFavell on Mar 4, 2014 10:52 AM

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*Jackie:* So interesting! I remember so well that wonderful Ford camera, especially in those trilogy of films of the late 40s. I was new to Ford (yeah, I know :( ) at the time I finally got around to them but I remember immediately taken and I screen capped quite a good number of scenes, they have a sort of iconic feel to them, as if, okay, this is what it really looked like back then. Wonderful comparison study.

 

*CineMaven:* Nice post about Sara Haden. Of course, I don't know her either :( Wonderful collage!

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I guess one desert is like another, eh? :D

 

It just struck me that there were a lot of crossovers between the two directors in Lawrence, including a lineup of Arab faces, just as Ford used Native American faces placed just so in his frame. Also, there was a scene I wish I could have taken a screencap from, where Howitat men were lined up on top of a ridge above Lawrence, that I swear came right out of Fort Apache.

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of course i had to jump in because until now, i thought i was the only one to see the (at least visual) kinship between Lean and Ford. in fact, no other director has ever come as close to Ford as Lean does when it comes the use of space and landscape to both put a character in context with his world, and to express his own inner self or conflicts. And not just landscape, both men use objects and their placement in relation to the humans in a scene in very similar ways. Objects "witness" what a character is experiencing, or they reinforce what is happening to them. Lamps, flowers, lights in windows, and other things are both used very similarly by the two men.

 

I am quite sure there was high regard between them for each one's work.

 

BRILLIANT screencap comparisons...how on earth did you dig them up? Did you take out the DVDs and capture them or did you find them on the internet?

 

*Lawrence* achieves many things that *Cheyenne Autumn* ought to have done and might have had Ford been in his prime---and had no studio interference. The situations were quite similar, what Britain was after and what the U.S. Government was after vs. the indigenous peoples.

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all I could think of was John Ford

 

Ha.. he DOES seem to pop up all over the place, doesn't he? :) And that is a lovely comparison young'un. I imagine that you are right at least based only on some of the shots you posted. I know very little of Lean (and not a WHOLE lot about Ford other than the films I have watched for him) but I am sure he had an influence on many directors who came after him.. and for a film like this one that relied SO heavily on the kinds of images you posted.. I bet Lean did look back to some of what Ford had already done.. if only for a frame of reference.

 

Whether or not that is true.. I will rely on you more learned folk to figure. But for my part.. I will just say that this is one of the few "classic" films I have actually had the pleasure of seeing on the big screen. I saw it once way back in the VERY early 80's and then again after it had some sort of restoration, I think.. if I remember right.. later in the 80's again. And BOY oh boy.. all I can say is LofA is such a visual experience all on its own.. just watching it for the way it LOOKS is almost as worthwhile as the story itself.

 

Grey Dude.. I hope you check it out soon.. would enjoy hearing your thoughts on this one.

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Jacks,

 

Your post stirred something in my memory and it took awhile to find it.

 

But I wrote this in a thread back in 2006:

 

Lest anyone think I'm crazy about David Lean, watch "LoA" again. Those wonderful wide shots of the deserts and the treks across them and even the battle scenes all have that Ford influence.

 

http://forums.tcm.com/thread.jspa?threadID=78833&start=50&tstart=0

 

Am glad that others see it, too and I'm not crazy!

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*of course i had to jump in because until now, i thought i was the only one to see the (at least visual) kinship between Lean and Ford. in fact, no other director has ever come as close to Ford as Lean does when it comes the use of space and landscape to both put a character in context with his world, and to express his own inner self or conflicts. And not just landscape, both men use objects and their placement in relation to the humans in a scene in very similar ways. Objects "witness" what a character is experiencing, or they reinforce what is happening to them. Lamps, flowers, lights in windows, and other things are both used very similarly by the two men.*

 

I feel kind of stupid for not noticing before all the similarities. I know I've seen Lawrence about 50 times, I always watch it when it's on, and it was the very first VHS tape I ever bought. I don't really THINK when it's on, just let it sweep over me. At least, I don't think about the film-making aspects of it.

 

I love what you say...well, first about how the space and landscape expresses the inner conflicts of the character, but also about how objects and their placement inform a scene or a character as well. I never really noticed that! I guess with Lean (as well as Ford) I was just swept away by the beauty and the stories, and never really compared him to anyone else or saw a connection or paid attention to the small detail. Lean seems so different, so much his own man that I didn't stop to realize he might have learned from others. And I believe he was VERY much into movies as a young man, so it makes sense that as he grew up, he would absorb like a sponge from the greatest artists and film-makers. Of course, I see now that similarity in object placement, now that you mentioned it. :D

 

*I am quite sure there was high regard between them for each one's work.*

 

I wasn't sure, but I would sense a kinship, certainly.

 

*BRILLIANT screencap comparisons...how on earth did you dig them up? Did you take out the DVDs and capture them or did you find them on the internet?*

 

I wish I could have shown more of the ones that really caught my eye - but I don't have LofA on disc. I had to pick and choose from the internet, so I did a lot of searching for the particular shots that struck me. There are more I noticed that I simply couldn't find pictures of, which is a shame.

 

*Lawrence achieves many things that Cheyenne Autumn ought to have done and might have had Ford been in his prime---and had no studio interference. The situations were quite similar, what Britain was after and what the U.S. Government was after vs. the indigenous peoples.*

 

Now you know, I NEVER really thought about it, but that's a GREAT comparison! Yes, I think THAT is what I brought away with me from watching LofA, that the two men had a similar world view, not just that they used some framing techniques in common. Their similar, complex view of the military is quite interesting. I would almost say that Lean picked up where Ford left off, as if the one man was reincarnated into the other. Each man in his own time taking the moral questions of the day and turning them into artwork that is unsurpassed.

 

*Ha.. he DOES seem to pop up all over the place, doesn't he? :) And that is a lovely comparison young'un. I imagine that you are right at least based only on some of the shots you posted. I know very little of Lean (and not a WHOLE lot about Ford other than the films I have watched for him) but I am sure he had an influence on many directors who came after him.. and for a film like this one that relied SO heavily on the kinds of images you posted.. I bet Lean did look back to some of what Ford had already done.. if only for a frame of reference.*

 

Yes, I don't mean to imply that Lean was simply copying. I find him wholely himself in his film-making. More likely he absorbed the placement, the framing techniques and the relations between landscape and man at some point, so it came out of him organically, rather than as a straightforward copy.

 

*Whether or not that is true.. I will rely on you more learned folk to figure. But for my part.. I will just say that this is one of the few "classic" films I have actually had the pleasure of seeing on the big screen. I saw it once way back in the VERY early 80's and then again after it had some sort of restoration, I think.. if I remember right.. later in the 80's again. And BOY oh boy.. all I can say is LofA is such a visual experience all on its own.. just watching it for the way it LOOKS is almost as worthwhile as the story itself.*

 

Ro - you are so LUCKY! I really love this movie, I think you all know I miss really wide open vistas, and this one has the widest open ones I can think of! I can't even imagine seeing this one on the big screen. It must be quite something, and I'm sure I would sink down into it like a dream. It's a favorite of mine, a little less straightforward than Lean's *Bridge on the River Kwai*, which I also just watched. Interesting that he almost always picked stories in which the environment effected change on his characters, and not always in the most obvious ways (and not always the most obvious environment, as in *Dr. Zhivago*, where the political is at odds with the natural).

 

*Jacks,*

 

*Your post stirred something in my memory and it took awhile to find it.*

 

*But I wrote this in a thread back in 2006:*

 

*Lest anyone think I'm crazy about David Lean, watch "LoA" again. Those wonderful wide shots of the deserts and the treks across them and even the battle scenes all have that Ford influence.*

 

*http://forums.tcm.com/thread.jspa?threadID=78833&start=50&tstart=0*

 

*Am glad that others see it, too and I'm not crazy!*

 

Lynn, I am so relieved that someone else had thought of it too! I was shocked when it came to me, epiphany style, and then I thought about it and was almost hesitant to post.... I wasn't sure if I was grasping at straws a little. :D But if you saw it too, I KNOW it was there. Glad to know I was on the right track! Thanks for the confirmation. Whew!

 

 

*I'm afraid I can't comment on your comparison, Jackie. I've yet to see Lawrence of Arabia. I'm hoping to do so at some point this year, though.*

 

I can't WAIT for you to see it, Frank. I imagine you are doing Lean in order? At least generally speaking? It must be coming up next for you.

 

Edited by: JackFavell on Mar 6, 2014 8:00 AM

 

Edited by: JackFavell on Mar 6, 2014 8:02 AM

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*I can't WAIT for you to see it, Frank. I imagine you are doing Lean in order? At least generally speaking? It must be coming up next for you.*

 

:) I actually haven't been watching Lean in any kind of order. I'll all over the place. It's just that I'm not an epics fan and I really haven't been motivated to get to this one. Also, I may end up being a fool and getting the expensive blu-ray. It's something that shows up at Costco, once in a while.

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> I was shocked when it came to me, epiphany style,

 

Jacks,

 

The same with me. My embarrassment comes from the fact that I've seen *LoA* numerous times prior to 2006, most of those on the big screen.

 

But it didn't click with me until MrCutter and I were watching it on TCM back in 2006. They had a number of Ford westerns on that winter and we had been watching them so that probably helped!

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*Jacks,*

 

*The same with me. My embarrassment comes from the fact that I've seen LoA numerous times prior to 2006, most of those on the big screen.*

 

*But it didn't click with me until MrCutter and I were watching it on TCM back in 2006. They had a number of Ford westerns on that winter and we had been watching them so that probably helped!*

 

I was embarrassed too, because I've seen LofA so many times myself. That's why I thought maybe I was stating the obvious. I think it's a credit to Lean's style that we never really noticed before, that we get so caught up in the action that we never see the workings of it.

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If there's an argument against "embarrassed for not linking similarities", I think I'd use this one: "Why bother?"

 

Honestly. LoA to me is an incomparable experience, especially on the big screen. So is RIO GRANDE, SHE WORE, etc. Incomparable as in "not able to compare to anything else".

 

Perhaps that's why I've never linked "sand dunes in one" to "sand dunes in another". And the deserts have some differences, structurally.

 

We need to have a film festival out in Shiprock, New Mexico sometime, like a week-long tour with one of huge inflatable outdoor screens (Alamo Drafthouse, where are you?!!) and move, night to night, across those little towns throughout those lower edges of the Rockies' desert.

 

This would give us a wonderful chance to argue about these films' comparisons for a week or so. Bring the ice-cream churns, rock salt and hope everyplace has enough spare ice-cubes!

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THE MIGHTY ROMAN

 

The dark and lovely RUTH ROMAN is featured today on TCM. Her name might not always be on the tip of our tongue, but there's no arguing Roman gives consistently good performances. Most times she's a strong tough dame...and I wouldn't have her any other way.

 

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6:00 AM - ALWAYS LEAVE THEM LAUGHING (1949) - A vaudeville clown neglects his family while fighting for stardom. Dir:?Roy Del Ruth Cast:? Milton Berle , Virginia Mayo , Ruth Roman. BW-116 mins.

 

8:00 AM - THE WINDOW (1949) - A boy who always lies witnesses a murder but can't get anyone but the killer to believe him. Dir:?Ted Tetzlaff Cast:? Barbara Hale , Arthur Kennedy , Paul Stewart. BW-74 mins.

 

9:30 AM - BARRICADE (1950) - Two fugitives try to prove the head of a mining camp is a murderer. Dir:?Peter Godfrey Cast:? Dane Clark , Raymond Massey , Ruth Roman. C-75 mins.

 

11:00 AM - COLT .45 (1950) - A gun salesman tracks down the outlaws who stole his sample case. Dir:?Edwin L. Marin Cast:?Randolph Scott, Ruth Roman , Zachary Scott. C-74 mins.

 

12:30 PM - DALLAS (1950) - A renegade Confederate officer tries to hide his identity while bringing law and order to the West. Dir:?Stuart Heisler Cast:? Gary Cooper , Ruth Roman , Steve Cochran. C-94 mins.

 

2:15 PM - LIGHTNING STRIKES TWICE (1951) - An actress champions the cause of a man whom she believes has been falsely accused of murdering his wife. Dir:?King Vidor Cast:? Ruth Roman , Richard Todd , Mercedes McCambridge . BW-90 mins.

 

4:00 PM - STRANGERS ON A TRAIN (1951)- A man's joking suggestion that he and a chance acquaintance trade murders turns deadly. Dir:?Alfred Hitchcock Cast:? Farley Granger , Ruth Roman , Robert Walker. BW-101 mins.

 

6:00 PM - THE FAR COUNTRY (1955) - Two cowboys on the road to Alaska help a wagon train in trouble. Dir:?Anthony Mann Cast:? James Stewart , Ruth Roman , Corinne Calvet.C-97 mins. Letterbox Format.

 

3:45 AM - INVITATION (1952) - A millionaire tries to buy his dying daughter a husband. Dir:?Gottfried Reinhardt Cast:? Van Johnson Dorothy McGuire , Ruth Roman. BW-85 mins.

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BORZAGE ALERT! BORZAGE ALERT!

 

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Tuesday - March 11th

 

10:30 AM - LIVING ON VELVET ( 1935 ) - A guilt-ridden pilot finds a new outlook on life when he falls for a society girl. Dir:?Frank Borzage. Cast:? Kay Francis, Warren William, George Brent. BW-76 mins.

 

I'm not sure where this fits in the lexicon of Borzage's work, but I'll find out Tuesday morning. I did see this once a long loooooong time ago and remember the "meet cute" scene with Francis and Brent at a swanky dinner party. But I'll go in there this time with a very new appreciation of Frank Borzage.

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MISS GODDESS wrote: Drat I wish I'd received your reminder sooner...I was unconscious until about 1 in the afternoon on Sunday (didn't get to sleep until 6 am). I have never seen this movie and I think it sounds like great fun from your description.

 

I don't think I've ever seen Franciscus in a movie..." - 10/17/2011

 

So I'm here to give you a Guilty Pleasure Alert for "YOUNGBLOOD HAWKE." Thursday - March 13th:

 

4:30 PM - YOUNGBLOOD HAWKE (1964) A novelist exercises a powerful spell over every woman he meets. Dir:?Delmer Daves. Cast:? James Franciscus, Suzanne Pleshette, Genevi?ve Page.137 mins.

 

...And James Franciscus is just the guy who can do it:

 

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CinemAva---I did catch about the last half hour of this movie, but clearly it has to be seen from the beginning...to be believed. :D Some of the plot threads that I was able pick up on reminded me of about a dozen "Perry Mason" episodes.

 

i never saw Suzanne so pretty. Is Genvieve Paige the same actress who played the snotty mistress of Gregory Peck in Snows of Kilimanjaro? Because the character seems almost exactly the same.

 

this was my first ever exposure to Franciscus...I'm afraid I didn't care for what I saw, but that may be the part he's playing (for his sake, I hope!) I was very distracted wondering if he dyed his hair...he just doesn't look like a natural blonde (I ought to know! :D ).

 

I don't know how I've missed this one all these years, it just never seemed to cross my radar. Next time, hopefully, it will air when I can watch start-to-finish.

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Howdy, Chris:

I never heard of *Longstreet* but ironically, just a few days after this movie aired I saw him in one of the western shows that air on Me-TV...I can't remember which one, though. I thought it odd that I should see him twice!

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*It looked like a TV version of Van Johnson's 23 Paces To Baker Street.*

 

That actually sounds interesting; so the detective was blind?

 

Had to look up Ann Doran's picture---she WAS in everything, it seemed. She reminds me a little Betty Field.

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