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I've always thought Lydia was exactly like her mother. Lydia was ALL about the man's standing, she married his uniform. She couldn't have cared less about him.

 

You are right! I stand corrected. I just watched the ending, again. She just wants a ring. She has no idea about the guy she married. She's a shallow bragger.

 

I can't believe you are being nice about NV.

 

Yes! It was good. The final act of the film reminded me of The Curse of the Cat People.

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How can anyone not like darling Teresa Wright?! What don't you like about her?

 

I think she's pretty, but she's just kind of there for me in most of her films. I like her in Miniver, Pride of the Yankees, and Shadow of a doubt; yet her presence in her other movies of is a little "blah" for me. I guess, I'm just used to people that show emotion very easily in their faces, and for me, Wright was a little on the impassive side. But I do have to admit that she does give a great performance in Mrs. Miniver.

 

A guy would never do such a thing!

 

you're so delusional! :D

 

I like her character and performance! I just didn't think she had much to do but be reassuring. Her importance in Random Harvest and Julia Misbehaves is much greater.

 

Yet you don't like her in Valley of Decision?! Oy Vey! If you ever in your lifetime get to watching her in Mrs. Parkington, Blossoms in the Dust, or Madame Curie, I assure you, there won't be any question about her importance.

 

"Swing dancing"? Those are code words!

 

For what, watching football and drinking beer?!....should i say soda? Heehee!

 

I'm looking to crush her, all right

 

Oh come now, even my daddy has a little crush on Greer and he can't stand watching too many old movies back to back. Are you fibbin' again?! Heehee!

 

How? Gloria kills Bogie, and you call that relaxing? Oh that's right, you like all the gory "dirty" movies! Such snobbish taste.

 

That's exactly it!

 

OH so you're admitting to you're being snobby!

 

Oh, for goodness sake. He only wanted a sandwich.

 

You didn't watch the whole movie you fibber! He threatened to drop bombs all over the city and kill the innocent people and the poor children! You heard him! That would be the reason she gave him a good slapping! He needed it! Good job Greer!

 

That's not interesting enough for me!

 

:P

 

arguing4.jpg

 

Greer does a heckuva lot more in Random Harvest. She's asked to do a lot.

 

Well no argue here!

 

She isn't naughty in Julia Misbehaves. You need to watch film noir!

 

I told you, I do!

 

What I like about Greer in the film is that she's not just playing a comedic role but she also has to exhibit real emotion with her daughter, the one she left. There's some depth to her character and performance.

 

She did pretty good with showing emotion and being funny at the same time! I loved how she got the better of Walter even when he tried to stand up to her and tell her off. She still had the pants in their conversations! How cute!

 

I didn't know Teresa won an Oscar for Mrs. Miniver. I can't see that one, either. She's lovely and darling but I wouldn't say it was anything extraordinary.

 

Yeah she won supporting Actress. That year, Van Heflin won best supporting Actor too. So wait, if you had to choose between Teresa and Greer winging their Oscars for Mrs. Miniver, which ones would you agree with more?

 

Ummmm, well...

 

 

arguing6.jpg

 

You'd rather see me suffer! I figured as much.

 

Not necessarily!....I'd rather have you just be trampled by the ephalents, but it seems as though I have no alternative...:P:P:P

 

Gary? How did he enter this conversation? Geez, you Coop Gals are sick! Weren't we talking about the Duke? I think the Duke would be okay with it. Coop? Probably not.

 

Oopsey! Sorry, I meant to say The Duke when i wrote that, but I was watching Along Came Jones and I was too focused on drooling when i wrote it. Heehee!

 

I would think neither of them would let a girl spank them! I see them as being much too macho for that sort of thing.

 

He's not rough! All he'll do is ground you!

 

Oh so now I'm suppose to be an 8 year old?

 

And I do watch film noir......why do you find that so hard to believe all the time?

 

Because you fib!

 

When have I ever fibbed to you?

 

Yes. On the bridge.

 

I know! See!

 

Taken care of? She'd rather they marry Dollar Bill. She could care less about how they were cared for.

 

Yes, but that's what mothers did back then. That's what they knew how to do, they were determined to get their daughters married to rich men who could support them. I never said i liked it or agreed with it. I always thought Mrs. Bennett was the most annoying mother! Heehee! Her and her nerves! Silly! Thankfully Mr. Bennett knew how to handle the situation and only wanted his daughter to marry for love too.

 

She wasn't interested in love only! No woman is!

 

If that were true, she wouldn't have argued with Darcy's first proposal and told him basically to drop dead. She would have accepted for his money. No, she had to find out for herself that he was the man she loved and respected. Him having money was purely coincidence and she could have cared less.

 

That's because you're a snob!

 

Says who?!

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I agree with Jackie, Lydia was a silly goose all enamored with a uniform. Remember she already had shown a fatal weakness for soldiers before and this was alluded to early in the movie. And she said she could care less about how she'd feel about her bargain in five years, when Elizabeth asked. If all Elizabeth cared about was some "system" (I don't know what exactly you mean by that...society or religion?) why would she ask a question about Lydia's long term happiness?

 

I think just because Elizabeth has values doesn't make her a robot mindlessly defending a system.

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I agree with Jackie, Lydia was a silly goose all enamored with a uniform. Remember she already had shown a fatal weakness for soldiers before and this was alluded to early in the movie. And she said she could care less about how she'd feel about her bargain in five years, when Elizabeth asked.

 

All I needed to see was Lydia flaunting her ring and servants. Yeah, she's like her mom. Jackie is right.

 

If all Elizabeth cared about was some "system" (I don't know what exactly you mean by that...society or religion?) why would she ask a question about Lydia's long term happiness?

 

Good point. :P

 

I think just because Elizabeth has values doesn't make her a robot mindlessly defending a system.

 

I'm not saying she's a robot, but I do believe she believes similarly as her mother. She's within the system. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that, but she's really not that rebellious. She's just a little more principled.

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>

> I'm not saying she's a robot, but I do believe she believes similarly as her mother. She's within the system. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that, but she's really not that rebellious. She's just a little more principled.

 

That is true. Austen was not interested in depicting "rebels" as such. Her critiques of society were more indirect, such as by portraying Mrs Bennett as a fool and particularly in the friend of Lizzy who ends up marrying badly...just to be "respectably" married.

 

Speaking of mothers...what did you think of Gladdy in NV? She reminds me of my own mother at times. That implacable will.

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I disagree with the interpretation you've made of her here. Elizabeth cares about Lydia's moral and physical well being, not the appearances of things. She never said anything about how things looked, she was concerned because she thought the girl was transgressing and was perhaps being ill-used by the young man. You have to remember people did care about those things once upon a time and not everyone was hypocritical about it. Elizabeth is never meant to be characterized as a hypocrite. Her concern is genuine.

 

I agree with April! If Elizabeth did not care about Lydia, she wouldn't have interrogated Wickham when Lydia and him finally showed up to let everyone know where they were.

 

"My I ask how you have suddenly become so rich, Mr. Wickham?" Insinuating at the fact that Darcy had to bribe him into marrying Lydia, which coincidentally Lizzy didn't know about yet. Of course, Wickham lied to her and told her that ghastly story about having an estranged uncle dying and leaving a large sum.

 

That was beautifully said, Dahlink!

 

That's also what triggered her mind into being so outrageously happy about wanting to marry him when she learned of it. Darcy had done that purely for Lizzy out of his own "selfishness", b/c he wanted to make her happy.

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First you are nice about NV, then you agree with me about P and P? What is wrong with you? :)

 

I must jump in and say that the reason that Mrs. Bennett is so concerned about getting her daughters married into money is that they are going to lose their home. The family home is inherited through the male side of the family, and since Mr. Bennett has had the audacity to have five daughters and no sons, they are going to lose their home and entire livelihood to Mr. Collins, (the cousin) very soon. Collins is hardly about to support the Bennetts without getting something for it - i.e. a wife with enough social graces to place him in good standing with Lady Catherrine de Burgh, his patroness. Without their income and home, the girls will have no dowry, and therefore will become ineligible to marry at all. The entire family will sink down into the most abject poverty. It was a very real threat to them all. This is why it is foolhardy for Elizabeth to refuse Mr. Collins. It seems to me that she is bucking the system.

 

And while I think Mrs. Bennett is a foolish and superficial woman, she had very real concerns about her family's welfare, and very real reasons to want her daughters married well.

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That is true. Austen was not interested in depicting "rebels" as such. Her critiques of society were more indirect, such as by portraying Mrs Bennett as a fool and particularly in the friend of Lizzy who ends up marrying badly...just to be "respectably" married.

 

Now that was perfectly said. I just don't find Elizabeth to be some great rebel. She's completely within the system. She just happens to disagree with her's mother's desire to marry the first rich guy that comes along. Wait for the second one.

 

Speaking of mothers...what did you think of Gladdy in NV? She reminds me of my own mother at times. That implacable will.

 

How ironic! She reminded me of you! Stifling! :P

 

It's an over-the-top character, to be sure, but I still liked her, despite of that. Gladys was right on. I liked all of the performances. I thought there was a nice mix of personalities. Claude Rains was fantastic. And I really liked Paul Henreid, too. Mary Wickes was sensational.

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>

> Now that was perfectly said. I just don't find Elizabeth to be some great rebel. She's completely within the system. She just happens to disagree with her's mother's desire to marry the first rich guy that comes along. Wait for the second one.

>

 

She's not like that, silly. Listen to Butterscotch, she knows!

 

> How ironic! She reminded me of you! Stifling! :P

>

 

You're really a mass of compliments tonight.

 

> It's an over-the-top character, to be sure, but I still liked her, despite of that. Gladys was right on. I liked all of the performances. I thought there was a nice mix of personalities. Claude Rains was fantastic. And I really liked Paul Henreid, too. Mary Wickes was sensational.

 

Gladys was subtle compared to how my mother could be at times. Mary Wickes is terrific, she lightens the load.

 

You haven't said anything about Bette's handling of the part.

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I just don't find Elizabeth to be some great rebel. She's completely within the system. She just happens to disagree with her's mother's desire to marry the first rich guy that comes along. Wait for the second one.

 

It's not that she was in the system. It was her Pride to which you are referring to, and her mother even developed a strong dislike for Darcy. So you can't really say that she agreed with her mother's wanting her to marry a rich man such as Darcy.

 

She's not like that, silly. Listen to Butterscotch, she knows!

 

Well thank you, Dahlink!

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Good evening, Lydia -- First you are nice about NV, then you agree with me about P and P? What is wrong with you?

 

I thought I'd see what it's like to be on your side for a change.

 

It sucks. :P

 

I must jump in and say that the reason that Mrs. Bennett is so concerned about getting her daughters married into money is that they are going to lose their home. The family home is inherited through the male side of the family, and since Mr. Bennett has had the audacity to have five daughters and no sons, they are going to lose their home and entire livelihood to Mr. Collins, (the cousin) very soon. Collins is hardly about to support the Bennetts without getting something for it - i.e. a wife with enough social graces to place him in good standing with Lady Catherrine de Burgh, his patroness. Without their income and home, the girls will have no dowry, and therefore will become ineligible to marry at all. The entire family will sink down into the most abject poverty. It was a very real threat to them all. This is why it is foolhardy for Elizabeth to refuse Mr. Collins. It seems to me that she is bucking the system.

 

Excellent point! You are correct. Once again, I bow to your rightheadedness. But I will say Mrs. Bennet wants her daughters married at all times. That's just being a mother. I've got an aunt who is like Mrs. Bennet.

 

So wouldn't it make more of an impact if the family were evicted over Elizabeth's decision? Isn't that a stronger statement?

 

Good evening, Champoozy -- She's not like that, silly. Listen to Butterscotch, she knows!

 

She thinks Walter Pidgeon is rough!

 

You're really a mass of compliments tonight.

 

That's why I'm a gentleman.

 

Gladys was subtle compared to how my mother could be at times.

 

So she forced you to wear glasses and bushy eyebrows? It's no wonder you are so superficial now! :P

 

You haven't said anything about Bette's handling of the part.

 

I said she should have won the Oscar! I thought she was excellent. I was afraid she would slip into the tough Bette after the transformation. But she didn't. I liked her the most in the final act of the film. That was the best I've seen of Bette when it comes to being loving. This wasn't the Bette I knew. I've always liked the "ugly" Bette in the Aldrich flicks, but this Bette was superb.

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> I said she should have won the Oscar! I thought she was excellent. I was afraid she would slip into the tough Bette after the transformation. But she didn't. I liked her the most in the final act of the film. That was the best I've seen of Bette when it comes to being loving. This wasn't the Bette I knew. I've always liked the "ugly" Bette in the Aldrich flicks, but this Bette was superb.

 

It is lovely to see her letting her guard down, showing how much this fragile new world she's made means to her. And she isn't afraid to beg Jerry to help her keep that world together. That's very "un-Bette", too. I thought she was very convincing when she says, or words to the effect: "Apparently you have no conception what torture it is to love a man and to be shut out, barred out...always an extra and an outsider."

 

My favorite moment in the whole movie, the one that always makes me cry a river, is just after she's gotten home and had her first show down with Ma Vale and she's in her old bedroom and the little box arrives. When she opens it and sees the camellia and the music starts I go all to pieces! Just thinking about it I tear up!

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>I thought I'd see what it's like to be on your side for a change.

 

>It sucks. :P

 

That made me laugh a lot.

 

>So wouldn't it make more of an impact if the family were evicted over Elizabeth's decision? Isn't that a stronger statement?

 

A stronger statement than what?

 

MissG -

 

>My favorite moment in the whole movie, the one that always makes me cry a river, is just after she's gotten home and had her first show down with Ma Vale and she's in her old bedroom and the little box arrives. When she opens it and sees the camellia and the music starts I go all to pieces! Just thinking about it I tear up!

 

That moment for me is so wonderful.... it's a transition point in the whole movie and I always feel like cheering when Jerry sends that flower - he is so attuned to what she needs at that moment. I love their whole meeting and courtship on board the boat. She is so awkward, and terrified that she will be found to be an imposter - an ugly duckling pretending to be someone else - someone glamorous, more experienced. Someone who knows what they are doing! And all he sees is this mysterious woman, who is really very fragile and delicate, but with an inner beauty that other women lack. He really sees HER.

 

but back to that flower... she pins it on and it gives her the strength to be her new self , her more real self through the whole evening with the family.... and again, I cheer for her every time she comes downstairs and lights the fire in the fireplace, and purposefully misunderstands what the relatives say to her, and she WINS. She wins her self back.

 

Edited by: JackFavell on Feb 22, 2010 10:21 PM

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It is lovely to see her letting her guard down, showing how much this fragile new world she's made means to her. And she isn't afraid to beg Jerry to help her keep that world together. That's very "un-Bette", too.

 

Exactly. This was a "new" Bette to me. I really liked her. Keep in mind, I just finished seeing All About Eve for the first time. Bette is a snow plow in that film, and I really like her performance, but I much prefer the Bette of Now, Voyager. What won me over was the end. It was her time with Tina (Janis Wilson) that got me. I loved the feeling of the Vale home at the very end. What a wonderful difference.

 

I thought she was very convincing when she says, or words to the effect: "Apparently you have no conception what torture it is to love a man and to be shut out, barred out...always an extra and an outsider."

 

That was excellent. And I felt Henreid's returns were spot on.

 

My favorite moment in the whole movie, the one that always makes me cry a river, is just after she's gotten home and had her first show down with Ma Vale and she's in her old bedroom and the little box arrives. When she opens it and sees the camellia and the music starts I go all to pieces! Just thinking about it I tear up!

 

You cry? I didn't think frigid women cried. That's a compliment, by the way. :P:P:P

 

That's a very lovely moment. I was most affected by her time with Tina. As I said, it reminded me of The Curse of the Cat People.

 

nowvoyager2.jpg

 

This is one of my favorite moments:

 

nowvoyager1.jpg

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OH yes, when Charlotte hears Jerry's voice on the line the look on her face says it all. She wants so much to talk to him but can't. What a moment!!!!!

 

I do like the Tina scenes, too. The girl's agonies are so openly naked and uncomfortable to watch, especially for anyone who knows what a horrible adolescence can be. Tina was fortunate to find a "Camille".

 

Jackie---yes, that's brilliantly said...she won herself back and Jerry's camellia told her he was thinking of her. She found herself with him. It's almost like Lucia and Captain Gregg. They each can be their true selves with this one person...this one person they cannot have. Maybe these movies (I believe both stories were written by women) speak to the longing many women have for that soul mate, but it also shows how impossible it seems that one can ever have it.

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"The untold want by life and land ne'er granted,

Now voyager sail thou forth to seek and find." - < Walt Whitman >

 

What a great Bette Davis film. Being tormented by her smart-aleck niece, the kindly Dr. Jacquith visiting her at home. Her poor tirade "you have fun making fun of me." Heavy drums of Steiner's composition. "My mother, my mother my mother."[/i] That nervous breakdown. And her recovery. Off to the cruise and meeting tall handsome Continental Jerry. Paul Henried was never more romantic. Not even with the beautiful Ingrid Bergman was he this romantic.

 

I liked Lee Patrick and Ilka Chase in this. I liked the nurse at the rest home too. Bundling in the cold mountains of (rear projected) Brazil. Stepping off the boat with the hat, those shoes and that Steiner music. Facing her domineering mother (oooh, someone stronger than Bette) and being triumphant.Turning down the marriage offer of handsome but < snooze yawn > boring Beacon Hill-er (Hedy Lamarr's ex-husband).

 

Roasting potatoes with Tina and burning her finger. The love, the longing, the being strong and responsible. Not once did Bette cross the line into being mannered. Not once did Bette cross the line into being ferocious when she could easily blow people away. Claude Claude Claude. (Could this be the same man trying to take advantage of Joy Page in "Casablanca")? Bette's gentle and doesn't betray Charlotte. She's so fragile and doesn't turn to a lion.

 

How hard it was to be near the man she loved but not betray the trust she's built up with his daughter..."our child." This is one of Bette Davis' great performances. She can turn up the heat and roast you alive...or she can simmer with longing and break your heart.

 

She just ranks so high in my eyes in my list of favorite actresses. This is one of the reasons.

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Hola, Hagatha -- I do like the Tina scenes, too. The girl's agonies are so openly naked and uncomfortable to watch, especially for anyone who knows what a horrible adolescence can be. Tina was fortunate to find a "Camille".

 

I actually view those scenes more from Charlotte's point of view. She needed Tina just as much as Tina needed her, maybe more. She felt close to her love, she felt needed, she was happy: her life now had meaning. And the way Bette portrays this is exceptional. Her performance is very soft and delicate. For me to see Bette as a "mother" was eye-opening. I always see her destroying the lives of others, not building them up.

 

Hey there, Lively Gal -- I was awaiting your chime. I liked your music.

 

Not once did Bette cross the line into being mannered. Not once did Bette cross the line into being ferocious when she could easily blow people away.

 

That's what I was waiting for. I would have thought differently of the film if Bette would have gone from the second Mrs. DeWinter to Margo Channing. But it never occurs.

 

Bette's gentle and doesn't betray Charlotte. She's so fragile and doesn't turn to a lion.

 

I was amazed. Miss G actually told me this was the case with Now, Voyager, many moons ago. She was right.

 

I actually got a Casablanca feel with Now, Voyager.

 

This is one of Bette Davis' great performances. She can turn up the heat and roast you alive...or she can simmer with longing and break your heart.

 

Nicely said!

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Good evening, Eliza -- I liked your caps! Those were perfectly selected.

 

I think she's pretty, but she's just kind of there for me in most of her films. I like her in Miniver, Pride of the Yankees, and Shadow of a doubt; yet her presence in her other movies of is a little "blah" for me. I guess, I'm just used to people that show emotion very easily in their faces, and for me, Wright was a little on the impassive side. But I do have to admit that she does give a great performance in Mrs. Miniver.

 

You and your "impassive"! That's what you say about Lamby! Teresa (and Richard Carlson) is what I like most in The Little Foxes. I need to see Pursued.

 

Teresa just reminds me of the "girl next door." And I really like that about her. When she pleads, I listen.

 

Yet you don't like her in Valley of Decision?! Oy Vey!

 

She's okay in The Valley of Decision.

 

If you ever in your lifetime get to watching her in Mrs. Parkington, Blossoms in the Dust, or Madame Curie, I assure you, there won't be any question about her importance.

 

And I'm sure you are very correct about those films. I'm actually quite interested in Madame Curie.

 

I wasn't saying Greer has never carried a film. Quite the contrary. I'm just surprised she won an Oscar for Mrs. Miniver.

 

For what, watching football and drinking beer?!....should i say soda? Heehee!

 

You watch football games and drink beer? You said you don't drink!

 

Oh come now, even my daddy has a little crush on Greer and he can't stand watching too many old movies back to back. Are you fibbin' again?! Heehee!

 

He's lying to you!

 

You didn't watch the whole movie you fibber! He threatened to drop bombs all over the city and kill the innocent people and the poor children! You heard him! That would be the reason she gave him a good slapping! He needed it! Good job Greer!

 

He was dying! He couldn't do a darn thing! One measly Nazi constitutes saving the Kingdom!

 

You need to watch film noir!

 

I told you, I do!

 

Your nose is growing!

 

She did pretty good with showing emotion and being funny at the same time! I loved how she got the better of Walter even when he tried to stand up to her and tell her off. She still had the pants in their conversations! How cute!

 

She didn't get the better of him at the end! Stubborn.

 

So wait, if you had to choose between Teresa and Greer winging their Oscars for Mrs. Miniver, which ones would you agree with more?

 

Greer's performance is better than Teresa's.

 

I really wanna chime in, but I think I'm gonna watch Now Voyager again before I do. I haven't seen it in a while and have been in the mood for it anyway.

 

Terrific!

 

Okay, you wanted me to tell you what I found more interesting with Greer's character in Random Harvest compared to Mrs. Miniver. Ultimately, it's the kind of story that's being told and what is asked and needed from the performer. Greer's character in Mrs. Miniver is that of mostly a supportive, reassuring mother. I just didn't think much was needed from her nor asked. Conversely, in Random Harvest, Greer is asked and needed to do a lot. Ronald Colman doesn't provide ANY of the great emotion that's found in the film. That ALL comes from Greer and her character. She is driving the story. That's what I think is "Best Actress" material. If anyone wants to know what Greer is about, I'd suggest Random Harvest before I'd suggest Mrs. Miniver. I think you get a better feel for Greer's talent in Julia Misbehaves, too.

 

I'm not saying Greer wasn't worthy of winning an Oscar. But after watching Now, Voyager, I'm surprised she topped Bette. As I was saying earlier, I think Greer's "Now, Voyager" is Random Harvest.

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Good evening Grey guy...

 

You're quite convincing. You'd definitely own me

 

Ha.... the way you talk sometimes... I think I better DISown you, darlin' sonny boy.. Ha. :P

 

For one of the very few times, she made some real sense to me. She must be tanked

 

I rest my case... Frank Grimes.. you are officially disowned. (As if THAT will make any difference, ha)

 

What?! Ohhhh, you're nothing but wonderful surprises today. More conflict! Perfect! Let me grab some pillows for you. Or do you prefer mud? You always talk about your toes.

 

Ha..... I will take the mud. It will make a bigger impact on you when I throw it. :P

 

Okay, spill the beans. I have to hear your reasons why you're not so keen on Random Harvest. Is it because Greer didn't kill enough men?

 

Uh.... it has been a LONG long time since I saw that movie... but I don't remember her killing anyone. (maybe I have amnesia..ha) Anyway.. my main complaint.. (all you RH fans out there... cover your eyes) It is just too "soap opera-ish" and a bit "contrived. Or at least it felt that way to me. (I know... I know... that sounded harsh. And I call myself a "romance movie" fan... Don't everybody throw stuff at me all at once)

 

Well, I've been playing possum because I watched Now, Voyager last night

 

OH good grief, Mr. "Close to the Vest"... remind me not to play poker w/ YOU. (not that I play poker..ha. I am more of a "Hearts" and "Pitch" player..ha)

 

SPOILER: Does your problem stem from Jerry (Paul Henreid) being married?

 

More or less.... And I don't want to come off sounding judgemental about it. Because I DO think she more or less resisted the actual physical "affair"(for the most part) or tried to anyway. But I also think she settled. I wanted MORE for her than to wish for the stars..ha. I think she deserved the moon.. but she did not allow herself to wish for it. So in my mind she set her sites too low.

 

She settled for a relationship with someone else's husband. And as "honorable" as he was to stay married... and as strong as she tried to be to avoid him, no matter what... I just have issues with her still wanting to be "his" and him still wanting to be with her... so long as he remained married to someone else.

 

To move on with her life.. and truly move away from that situation would have been VERY hard, I do understand that. Because I think it is possible for a person to love another person (who is married to someone else). It is not a perfect world. But in stories like this, I would much rather see the strength of character it takes to walk away from that situation altogether and move on with your life (completely) than to stay and struggle through it like she did (just settling for and taking those crumbs when you can get them, so to speak, because you think they were better than not having anything at all)

 

Now having said all that... WHAT about Tina??? I think the scenes w/ Charlotte and Tina are WONDERFUL. And I like the friendship between her and the young girl (especially at the beginning). But to me, I just wish she had not gone so "all out" and rather just given Tina that "start" she needed and then moved on. To me... Tina needed to learn to live the life she was dealt and Charlotte ended up giving HER an "altered" view of reality... in the form a "mother figure" that really wasn't her mother at all. Charlotte COULD have been a friend to her... but to take on such a complete and absolute role like that in Tina's life... to me, it only helped her to AVOID reality.. not learn to live within it. Don't get me wrong.. I am glad Tina had someone to love her and help care for her... but I just had some issues with it all. (I know.. .I sound heartless now, don't I??? Who do I think I am?? ha)

 

Anyway.. I wish it had all gone a different way in the end of things. I did not like to see Charlotte settle for a "pseudo" family... and that to me is what she got. Oh the love she had for them both was real.... and the love they had for her as well, but the relationship were not hers to have... with Tina OR Jerry... and so to me, she settled for less than the real thing in that regard and she cheated herself.

 

Now I should admit that it has been some time since I saw this film too (and I have only seen it once) so I may not be remembering everything exactly as I would if I had just watched it recently.. and I also know not too many people are going to agree with me about some of what I have said... so I won't even try to defend my thoughts... but this is just more or less how I felt about it.

 

thought Elizabeth was fairly similar to her mother. The one who wasn't was Lydia (Ann Rutherford

 

I think the other gals have had done a GOOD job of setting you straight on THAT..ha. So I won't waste too much more breath trying..ha. But I will say that the way I veiw Elizabeth... is that she is smarter (and more sensible) than BOTH of her parents. Her mother is a busy body and cares LITTLE for anything but herself and her family's social status... and she is WAY too obvious about it... she doesn't even TRY to hide her schemes. And the father is FAR too tolerant of the nonsense from his wife (and some of the other girls) and would rather hide in his study than make them behave. Elizabeth is the one who tries to keep everything together. (Out of love for her father.. and embarassment for her mother)

 

Yeah, but what about his family? Both would be full of snobbery

 

Well, you do have a point there. ha. Both their families had a LOT of less than desirable traits, ha. They come from such "flawed" ancestry, ha...hopefully they will cancel each other out (in the gene pool) and their children will be PERFECT. ha. (And.. THAT is what will hopefully happen for the kidling too someday when SHE marries. HA!!) :-)

 

You're not a snob. You're wrong, but not a snob

 

Ha.. I don't know whether to thank you.. or hit YOU with a rock. :P (and ps.. now that you have read what I had to say about NV.. ha. You MAY want to rethink that whole "you're not a snob" comment.. I am sure others will disagree... ha. I am pitching my lonely tent up on that mountain side again... shades of "The Furies".. ha. I feel so all alone already)

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Hey there, Quiet Gal -- Ha.... the way you talk sometimes... I think I better DISown you, darlin' sonny boy.. Ha.

 

That's hilarious!

 

I rest my case... Frank Grimes.. you are officially disowned. (As if THAT will make any difference, ha)

 

I'm the ugly duckling. :(

 

Ha..... I will take the mud. It will make a bigger impact on you when I throw it.

 

Ooooooooooooooooh, all right! I'm sure Jackie will be okay with that. :D

 

Uh.... it has been a LONG long time since I saw that movie... but I don't remember her killing anyone. (maybe I have amnesia..ha) Anyway.. my main complaint.. (all you RH fans out there... cover your eyes) It is just too "soap opera-ish" and a bit "contrived. Or at least it felt that way to me. (I know... I know... that sounded harsh. And I call myself a "romance movie" fan... Don't everybody throw stuff at me all at once)

 

You're a "romance movie" fan? When?!

 

Aren't most love stories with a happy ending "contrived"? What makes this one different? The amnesia? How about the effects of war on man and relationships?

 

I can't believe I like a Greer Garson movie more than you. This is distressing. But at least it will prove how sweet and loving I am. :P

 

And I don't want to come off sounding judgemental about it. Because I DO think she more or less resisted the actual physical "affair"(for the most part) or tried to anyway. But I also think she settled. I wanted MORE for her than to wish for the stars..ha. I think she deserved the moon.. but she did not allow herself to wish for it. So in my mind she set her sites too low.

 

Ohhhhhhhhhhh! And here I was thinking you were going to go all moral on me! You really are full of surprises. So you wanted Charlotte (Bette) to demand the divorce. You and Butterscotch just want divorces! :P

 

She settled for a relationship with someone else's husband. And as "honorable" as he was to stay married... and as strong as she tried to be to avoid him, no matter what... I just have issues with her still wanting to be "his" and him still wanting to be with her... so long as he remained married to someone else.

 

Love can be this way, especially when a man is trapped in a loveless marriage with three children to think about. And I really can't say she settled. Keep in mind, she was close to marrying another man but she called off the engagement because she was lying to herself. It would have been unfair to not only her, but to Elliot (John Loder). Her heart is trapped. So is his.

 

To move on with her life.. and truly move away from that situation would have been VERY hard, I do understand that. Because I think it is possible for a person to love another person (who is married to someone else). It is not a perfect world. But in stories like this, I would much rather see the strength of character it takes to walk away from that situation altogether and move on with your life (completely) than to stay and struggle through it like she did (just settling for and taking those crumbs when you can get them, so to speak, because you think they were better than not having anything at all)

 

It's not about her not having any love at all. It's not. She could find love, now. But it's not her love. At least, not yet. The following says it all, to me:

 

nowvoyager3.jpg

 

nowvoyager4.jpg

 

nowvoyager5.jpg

 

nowvoyager6.jpg

 

nowvoyager7.jpg

 

What Charlotte wants is what I think every woman wants and that's for a man to stir them... inside. Elliot (and other men) can be nice, kind, and loving but he cannot arouse Charlotte like Jerry can. It's something that your inside, and only your inside, tells you about a man (or woman). And it's not purely a sexual thing, but it's completely attached to the sexual. A man that can relax a woman or make her laugh or make her feel good about herself stirs her inside. Oh, forget it! Like I would know!

 

But I do agree with you, Charlotte is caught. I think time could solve the problem for her and maybe the both of them. I believe she would reach a point where she needed to demand more or sought more somewhere else. But, at this point, it's too fresh and still too close and real for her to move on. So, you are right, her love is to be "wasted," ala Doniphon.

 

Now having said all that... WHAT about Tina??? I think the scenes w/ Charlotte and Tina are WONDERFUL. And I like the friendship between her and the young girl (especially at the beginning). But to me, I just wish she had not gone so "all out" and rather just given Tina that "start" she needed and then moved on. To me... Tina needed to learn to live the life she was dealt and Charlotte ended up giving HER an "altered" view of reality... in the form a "mother figure" that really wasn't her mother at all. Charlotte COULD have been a friend to her... but to take on such a complete and absolute role like that in Tina's life... to me, it only helped her to AVOID reality.. not learn to live within it. Don't get me wrong.. I am glad Tina had someone to love her and help care for her... but I just had some issues with it all. (I know.. .I sound heartless now, don't I??? Who do I think I am?? ha)

 

Yes, you are heartless! But I already knew that. :P You are right, Tina will eventually have to move on, but I don't think it needs to be now. For the first time in her life, she is happy. Why look to force her to deal with something so soon when she just found her happiness? That would be devastating. She's only 12. Charlotte was in her 20s when she was able to come out of her shell. I say let Tina be happy for a while.

 

Anyway.. I wish it had all gone a different way in the end of things. I did not like to see Charlotte settle for a "pseudo" family... and that to me is what she got. Oh the love she had for them both was real.... and the love they had for her as well, but the relationship were not hers to have... with Tina OR Jerry... and so to me, she settled for less than the real thing in that regard and she cheated herself.

 

I believe we are only seeing her at this stage of her life. She needs Tina to feel needed and important and she still needs Jerry's unique love for her. I think her life would start to change more and more in the coming years. Charlotte is still trying to find herself, really.

 

Now I should admit that it has been some time since I saw this film too (and I have only seen it once) so I may not be remembering everything exactly as I would if I had just watched it recently.. and I also know not too many people are going to agree with me about some of what I have said... so I won't even try to defend my thoughts... but this is just more or less how I felt about it.

 

No, you have it exactly right. I thought your points were excellent and quite valid. If anything, you may be a little harsh on Charlotte and Tina. When you consider the kind of depression they were suffering from, they are going to need quite a bit of sunshine before they can truly turn the corner.

 

nowvoyager8.jpg

 

nowvoyager9.jpg

 

But I will say that the way I veiw Elizabeth... is that she is smarter (and more sensible) than BOTH of her parents. Her mother is a busy body and cares LITTLE for anything but herself and her family's social status... and she is WAY too obvious about it... she doesn't even TRY to hide her schemes. And the father is FAR too tolerant of the nonsense from his wife (and some of the other girls) and would rather hide in his study than make them behave. Elizabeth is the one who tries to keep everything together. (Out of love for her father.. and embarassment for her mother)

 

That was good!

 

(And.. THAT is what will hopefully happen for the kidling too someday when SHE marries. HA!!)

 

Okay, Mrs. Bennet!

 

Ha.. I don't know whether to thank you.. or hit YOU with a rock. (and ps.. now that you have read what I had to say about NV.. ha. You MAY want to rethink that whole "you're not a snob" comment.. I am sure others will disagree... ha. I am pitching my lonely tent up on that mountain side again... shades of "The Furies".. ha. I feel so all alone already)

 

:D Well, you do like Pride and Prejudice. So, you're right, you're a snob.

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Good evening Mr. Collins!

 

I liked your caps! Those were perfectly selected.

 

I am quite surprised that you haven't taken certain caps from a certain scene with Kitty and Lydia getting tipsy and using it to your advantage! .....maybe I shouldn't give you any ideas, though...:D

 

You and your "impassive"! That's what you say about Lamby! Teresa (and Richard Carlson) is what I like most in The Little Foxes. I need to see Pursued.

 

Well it's true...but in very different ways. I like Teresa Wright much more than your gorgeous lamby! Heehee! Teresa is at least warm in her acting whereas I still get cold goosebumps when i watch Grace. ;)

 

Now if you think you absolutely love Teresa being an every day sweet girl, then I don't know if you'll love her so much in Pursued. She's sort of the opposite. She is very deepened with anger issues in that movies. Just letting you know! :D

 

Teresa just reminds me of the "girl next door." And I really like that about her. When she pleads, I listen.

 

I do like that about her too, I have to admit. She has an ability to look at you with those eyes and make you listen to what she has to say.

 

She's okay in The Valley of Decision.

 

Now that's the first positive thing you have EVER said about her in that movie! We're making progress!

 

And I'm sure you are very correct about those films. I'm actually quite interested in Madame Curie.

 

Ooh! That's exciting! Why are you so interested in it?

 

I wasn't saying Greer has never carried a film. Quite the contrary. I'm just surprised she won an Oscar for Mrs. Miniver.

 

Oh okay! Now I understand your terrible logic. Heehee!

 

You watch football games and drink beer? You said you don't drink!

 

No! Yucky!

 

He's lying to you!

 

My daddy never lies!

 

He was dying! He couldn't do a darn thing! One measly Nazi constitutes saving the Kingdom!

 

Well now you're just being mean about the situation! :P He wasn't dying, he just had a hurt arm and was in pain. One measly Nazi makes a difference!

 

Your nose is growing!

 

How can you tell?

 

She didn't get the better of him at the end! Stubborn.

 

That's just about the only time! but it's really funny to watch her try to run away in the storm. She only get about five feet away from the actual house before she splashes in the mud! Heehee!

 

Greer's performance is better than Teresa's.

 

Whoa! Now that's sayin' something coming from you!

 

Okay, you wanted me to tell you what I found more interesting with Greer's character in Random Harvest compared to Mrs. Miniver. Ultimately, it's the kind of story that's being told and what is asked and needed from the performer. Greer's character in Mrs. Miniver is that of mostly a supportive, reassuring mother. I just didn't think much was needed from her nor asked. Conversely, in Random Harvest, Greer is asked and needed to do a lot. Ronald Colman doesn't provide ANY of the great emotion that's found in the film. That ALL comes from Greer and her character. She is driving the story. That's what I think is "Best Actress" material. If anyone wants to know what Greer is about, I'd suggest Random Harvest before I'd suggest Mrs. Miniver. I think you get a better feel for Greer's talent in Julia Misbehaves, too.

 

That's interesting that you don't think Ronald shows any of the emotion in RH. But then again he wasn't really suppose to. I thought he gave just enough and thought that if he gave anymore it would be over-bearing. Greer's the one who had to deal with everything and not blow up about her frustrations. Although I do think Ronnie should have shown a little more emotion about his anger of not being able to remember his past both times. His character did a great job of restraining his emotions for wanting to know what happened to in his past.

 

I'm not saying Greer wasn't worthy of winning an Oscar. But after watching Now, Voyager, I'm surprised she topped Bette. As I was saying earlier, I think Greer's "Now, Voyager" is Random Harvest.

 

So when you talk about Bette's NV performance, do you say, Her Now, Voyage performance was Now, Voyager? heehee!

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Good evening Mr. Collins!

 

:D I'm his boot lick!

 

I am quite surprised that you haven't taken certain caps from a certain scene with Kitty and Lydia getting tipsy and using it to your advantage! .....maybe I shouldn't give you any ideas, though...:D

 

I forget the scene! I've only seen the film once. You can tell because Jackie took me to the woodshed with it. She owes me a few. :D

 

Well it's true...but in very different ways. I like Teresa Wright much more than your gorgeous lamby! Heehee! Teresa is at least warm in her acting whereas I still get cold goosebumps when i watch Grace.

 

So you get goosebumps with Grace, too! Wonderful!

 

Now if you think you absolutely love Teresa being an every day sweet girl, then I don't know if you'll love her so much in Pursued. She's sort of the opposite. She is very deepened with anger issues in that movies. Just letting you know!

 

Well, I do like it when she gets mad in Shadow of a Doubt. When a sweet girl gets mad, I take it more seriously.

 

I do like that about her too, I have to admit. She has an ability to look at you with those eyes and make you listen to what she has to say.

 

Puppy dog eyes!

 

Ooh! That's exciting! Why are you so interested in it?

 

Because some of the scenes I saw in Madame Curie while taking caps looked interesting. I also like the idea of husband and wife working together. Hitchcock had it right.

 

Well now you're just being mean about the situation! He wasn't dying, he just had a hurt arm and was in pain. One measly Nazi makes a difference!

 

He passed out!

 

Your nose is growing!

 

How can you tell?

 

I've got my ways.

 

That's just about the only time! but it's really funny to watch her try to run away in the storm. She only get about five feet away from the actual house before she splashes in the mud! Heehee!

 

And I liked that he was sitting in the dry, warm cabin, smoking his pipe. Very Walter.

 

That's interesting that you don't think Ronald shows any of the emotion in RH. But then again he wasn't really suppose to. I thought he gave just enough and thought that if he gave anymore it would be over-bearing. Greer's the one who had to deal with everything and not blow up about her frustrations. Although I do think Ronnie should have shown a little more emotion about his anger of not being able to remember his past both times. His character did a great job of restraining his emotions for wanting to know what happened to in his past.

 

I wasn't criticizing Ronald Colman. He was on target. It's just that his character is in a fog or forgetful of Paula for most of the film, so you're not going to get any emotion from him. It's up to Greer to provide that. The best emotion you get from Colman, and it's very strong, is his lost eyes. He's giving a woman the look of "take me home and hug me." He's like a lost puppy dog.

 

So when you talk about Bette's NV performance, do you say, Her Now, Voyage performance was Now, Voyager? heehee!

 

Her "Random Harvest" is Now, Voyager. And I like Now, Voyager more :P It has a better ending!

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Aren't most love stories with a happy ending "contrived"?

 

NO!!! Why does it have to be a "contrived" tale for there to be a happy ending? Oh for pity sakes.. look who I am talking to..

 

What makes this one different? The amnesia? How about the effects of war on man and relationships?

 

(spoiler)

I don't know.. maybe it was the whole " He's got DOUBLE amnesia...first when he MET Greer.. and THEN after he married her... and then he almost marries someone else.. and then Greer is right there staying QUIET about who she is... until he figures it all out on his own" thing.. it was just too much. (at least for me)

 

I can't believe I like a Greer Garson movie more than you. This is distressing. But at least it will prove how sweet and loving I am

 

I know.. hard to believe, isn't it??? But as for anything proving how SWEET and loving you are?? I think it will take MORE than that. :P

 

Ohhhhhhhhhhh! And here I was thinking you were going to go all moral on me!

 

Well.. I did not want to turn this thing into a blood bath.. ha. But there WAS that aspect of things to consider TOO. :-) I generally just do not like characters who commit (and decide to stay) in a relationship like that. If adultery is brought into a storyline. I like it to be resolved.... and I did not see that happen really in this film. So... yeah.. that was an issue for me to. (but again.. I do not want to sound judgemental.. I just wish the whole story would have gone a different direction... but I guess that is why nobody is out there paying ME the big bucks to write it.. ha)

 

So you wanted Charlotte (Bette) to demand the divorce.

 

No, not really. I think what I really wanted was for her to "move on" to better things. If she HAD to have a relationship with him, then I think I wanted her to look on the whole thing as a a chance to learn HOW to love and then go find someone who COULD be free to love her (and free for her to love). Or maybe she moves on and realizes she can have a full life without having a "love" interest in it. Sometimes it is better to be alone than in the wrong relationship.. and I am with you.. eventually I think she will come to realize that what she THOUGHT was going to be "enough" for her.. will not make her happy in the end. (at least I hope she would)

 

And I really can't say she settled. Keep in mind, she was close to marrying another man but she called off the engagement because she was lying to herself. It would have been unfair to not only her, but to Elliot (John Loder).

 

I agree it would not have been right for her to marry the other guy. And that goes back to what I was saying.. who said she HAD to marry (or be attatched to) anyone at all to end up happy? Now I know.. I am saying that as an old married woman.. ha. It is easy for me to sound all smug and say.. people can be happy being single... the truth is.. it is NOT always easy.

 

I lived alone for 7 years before I met and married the QT.. (and I am eternally grateful for my husband and for the nearly 17 years we have been married. He is the best man I ever met) But I have to say.. had he not clearly been the right man for me.. I HOPE I would not have married him. When I lived alone... sometimes I dated now and then. and sometimes I did not (And there were times then that I wondered if I ever would marry at all) But I can tell you that it was NOT the end of the world for me to be alone (when I was alone). It was FAR better than being with the wrong man... and I came very close to marrying the wrong man once.. ha.. so I do know a bit about what I am saying here And NO.. he was not married to someone else.. but he was just not the right person for me. (But THAT is a TOTALLY uninteresting and UNnecessary story to tell... so I will leave it at that)

 

So I gues that what I am saying in all this is... I think I would have rather seen Charlotte alone and strong and independent (maybe a little older and wiser) than to see her either A) married to the WRONG man OR B) staying attatched to someone who was not really hers to stay with. (But again, I know I may not be in the majority with that one. I ask again.. "Who do I think I am?" ha)

 

What Charlotte wants is what I think every woman wants and that's for a man to stir them... inside

 

Ok... let me see if I can say this in a way that makes sense.... I won't try to speak for every woman.. but what I personally really want (and am again ETERNALLY grateful to have found in my husband) is a man who understands and accepts me for WHO I am and not what he THINKS I am. I want to be wanted for ME.

 

And maybe that is how Jerry felt about Charlotte... and she for him... But she was not his to feel that way for.. (and vice versa) so their relationship was never going to reach the kind of depth I am talking about.. because it is something that develops over time and through closeness with one another.

 

Romance can be a very deceptive thing sometimes. Everybody THINKS they know what they want and what will make them happy.. but the truth is... sometimes what you GET ends up being the last thing in the world that will truly bring you happiness in life. It takes a very discerning heart to understand the difference between "romantic" feelings or passion (that may be fleeting) and the kind of true love that deepens and grows over time. And THAT is what I really want from my marriage. And maybe that is what Charlotte THOUGHT she had with Jerry.. but I just don't see it that way... (again.. I am sure others may have a different point of view... but this is just my own opinion)

 

You are right, Tina will eventually have to move on, but I don't think it needs to be now. For the first time in her life, she is happy. Why look to force her to deal with something so soon when she just found her happiness? That would be devastating. She's only 12. Charlotte was in her 20s when she was able to come out of her shell. I say let Tina be happy for a while.

 

I don't know. Maybe you are right. But what I would have loved to have seen was a scenario where Charlotte moves on (after getting Tina started) and then meets up w/ Jerry and Tina later in life.. maybe when Tina is getting married and Charlotte and Jerry either A) are free to marry now because the evil wife is TOAST..ha. OR... B) Charlotte can look back and see she has made the right choice to move on because her life turned out OK... (either married to someone else or single) and Tina's life turned out ok too... thanks to the early nudge Charlotte gave her way back when. And Jerry is grateful to her for his daughter's sake.. and glad to learn Charlotte found happiness on her own.

 

ANY of those scenarios would have made me happier than the real ending. (But who am I to say? ha.. Did I mention that is likely why nobody is paying ME the big bucks?? ) ha.

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