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> {quote:title=molo14 wrote:}{quote}

> Okay this thread is leaving me in the dust! I watched *Mogambo* and *The Best Years of Our Lives* but I'm too broken up at the moment to write about them!

>

> I'll be back later.

>

 

Ooooooooh...don't leave, Larry!!!! You can ALWAYS bring back those discussions...I have plenty to say about Mogambo and there is always enthusiasm for TBYOOL rambling!

 

> *Now Voyager* made my list of favorite films that CineMaven requested about a year ago.

 

You big softie! :)

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I'm almost afraid to ask...what man???! Or are you being hostile again?

 

:D Tom Doniphon! What did you do to him?!

 

Yet Lucy blossoms with Captain Greg, into "Lucia" (a subtle transformation) and finds her true self. Just as Charlotte blossoms with her love for Jerry (an internal transformation to complete the physical change) and finds herself, too.

 

Ohhh! Yes, you are right! They are similar on that level. Womanly confidence. Very good!

 

I agree, but I also get the feeling Elliot doesn't really want that kind of relationship with Charlotte. It seems suggested that maybe he burned all that out with his first wife. He's looking to settle down for "companionship" and tells her so, quite clearly. He assumes she's the same, that she's not after anything more romantic. So I'm not as sure it's that Elliot cannot show that kind of feeling for her so much as he does not wish to, or doesn't feel inspired to. It's almost like he's gearing up for retirement! He wants a traveling companion.

 

Yes, you may be very right about that. It's clear that what Elliot was providing for Charlotte was nowhere near the same as what Jerry was, even if Jerry was a "ghost" lover.

 

And I can't see Elliot saying Cape Fear was his favorite movie.

 

Nobody would say that! :P

 

Remember how she looked up when someone at the dock said Jerry's name? She's always expecting him to turn up. That was before she met with her mother. Her mother shrunk her back to the "reality" of where she was before the sanitarium, before Jerry. If those flowers never came, she would have withered back to "Aunt Charlotte".

 

Right. Charlotte isn't the kind of woman who can just tell people off and say what she wants. That may be easy for some to do, but not Charlotte. She's not that strong. She needs someone like Jerry and his love for her to provide her with the strength and courage to stand up.

 

Sometimes you have to understand who you are dealing with. What works for one person may not for another. We're all so different. To think we should all act and behave the same wouldn't be reality. A bowl of chocolate ice cream isn't the answer for everyone.

 

And I hadn't thought of it that way, either. It's true, and I'm sure Charlotte felt a sudden, enormous hunger to create a home of her own. As well as to give Tina all the kind of love she never experienced.

 

Yes. Remember, Charlotte was headed back towards depression until she found Tina.

 

nowvoyager22.jpg

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Ok, I can add another scene to our list: When they sing "For He's a Jolly Good Fellow" to Ruggles in Red Gap. I cried buckets.

 

 

>

> :D Tom Doniphon! What did you do to him?!

>

 

Nothing! It was that fickle Hallie that done him in!!! The hussy.

 

> Yes, you may be very right about that. It's clear that what Elliot was providing for Charlotte was nowhere near the same as what Jerry was, even if Jerry was a "ghost" lover.

>

 

Yes! Sitting snug beside her, Elliot didn't give her what Jerry could from miles away.

 

>

> Sometimes you have to understand who you are dealing with. What works for one person may not for another. We're all so different. To think we should all act and behave the same wouldn't be reality.

>

 

Do you mean that what Elliot wants isn't taking into consideration Charlotte's needs?

 

> A bowl of chocolate ice cream isn't the answer for everyone.

 

Who says?!

 

> Yes. Remember, Charlotte was headed back towards depression until she found Tina.

>

 

That's right! She had a couple of real "bumps" in the road. The movie also captures the reality of the extreme ups and downs of love. One minute you're soaring, the next you are in deep valley.

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> {quote:title=JackFavell wrote:}{quote}

> I think Gregg is real. I mean a real ghost. I absolutely DON'T think he was manufactured out of Lucy's loneliness. his presence is felt by everyone in the house.

 

I agree. I agree so much I feel like he's even more real than a "ghost". I can't help it! I WANT him to be real. I guess what I mean is he is so much MORE "real" than the other men around her.

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Nothing! It was that fickle Hallie that done him in!!! The hussy.

 

You're supposed to make him forget about her!

 

Yes! Sitting snug beside her, Elliot didn't give her what Jerry could from miles away.

 

Very nice!

 

Sometimes you have to understand who you are dealing with. What works for one person may not for another. We're all so different. To think we should all act and behave the same wouldn't be reality.

 

Do you mean that what Elliot wants isn't taking into consideration Charlotte's needs?

 

No. What I'm saying is what you need is different than what Quiet Gal needs or what CinemAva needs or Jackie needs. If a guy just said to all of you, "just move on, forget him, get your fanny in gear," you would all react differently to those words. Things in life are never that simple and it's because we're all wired differently. I cannot expect how I would react and handle situations to be done by you and everyone else in the same way. That's not how life works. It's why I always smile when the High Noon discussion turns to Lamby and "what she should have done."

 

A bowl of chocolate ice cream isn't the answer for everyone.

 

Who says?!

 

Ask Butterscotch if she wants some.

 

The movie also captures the reality of the extreme ups and downs of love. One minute you're soaring, the next you are in deep valley.

 

Yes, very much so. That's why I like the ending so much. They both pause to say they are grateful for what they do have... at that moment. Considering where Charlotte came from, she would definitely be very happy with having "just" the stars. Again, I'm speaking of that moment. Sometimes we need to stop and be thankful for what we have, not what we don't.

 

I really liked that they kissed each other three times when they first part. I thought that was wonderful.

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>

> You're supposed to make him forget about her!

>

 

I am! For all eternity! :)

 

> No. What I'm saying is what you need is different than what Quiet Gal needs or what CinemAva needs or Jackie needs. If a guy just said to all of you, "just move on, forget him, get your fanny in gear," you would all react differently to those words. Things in life are never that simple and it's because we're all wired differently. I cannot expect how I would react and handle situations to be done by you and everyone else in the same way. That's not how life works. It's why I always smile when the High Noon discussion turns to Lamby and "what she should have done."

>

 

Oh, yes, I agree with that. And timing affects it. We might accept those words one day, and be shattered by them the next.

 

>

> I really liked that they kissed each other three times when they first part. I thought that was wonderful.

 

Me, too, it was a beautiful moment.

 

I forgot to add that my other favorite scene in the movie is the balcony scene in Buenos Ares (or is it Rio?). "Look out or you'll get burned, we used to say." I love the way Bette says that and how she is in that moment. All the guardedness against pain in her life is in that moment.

 

Edited by: MissGoddess on Feb 23, 2010 10:05 PM

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Oh, yes, I agree with that. And timing affects it. We might accept those words one day, and be shattered by them the next.

 

I never thought of that, but you're right.

 

It's not Miss Goddess in Now, Voyager, it's Charlotte Vale. And what if it was Miss G in the film? Interesting. How about Quiet Gal or Jackie or CinemAva? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm...

 

I forgot to add that my other favorite scene in the movie is the balcony scene in Buenos Ares (or is it Rio?). "Look out or you'll get burned, we used to say." I love the way Bette says that and how she is in that moment. All the guardedness against pain in her life is in that moment.

 

For me, that's the most important scene in the film. That's where we come to understand Charlotte and her feelings. She has a flood of emotions inside of her and she's trying to conceal them. She's both excited and frightened... which is often how I imagine love makes you feel.

 

nowvoyager23.jpg

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_Hey there Frank_

 

*Red dust?*

 

Exactly!

 

*You watched Mogambo? Terrific! Bring it on!*

 

I'm going to write about it before the night is over. I'm at home now and I still can't do screencaps on my home computer. I'm taking it into work as soon as the tech guy can get to it. Very frustrating.

 

_Hi Miss Goddess_

 

*Ooooooooh...don't leave, Larry!!!! You can ALWAYS bring back those discussions...I have plenty to say about Mogambo and there is always enthusiasm for TBYOOL rambling!*

 

I'll be back soon. I promised Kathy I would get back to TBYOOL. She's been surprisingly patient with me......

 

Too Patient! Something's up! :D

 

*You big softie!*

 

I confess! It's the perfect Bette Davis film. Right up there with *The Letter* and *All About Eve* in my book. It's a very romantic film but the journey of Charlotte Vale and her metamorphosis, even if contrived, is what captures my imagination. A second chance. A life regained. I love that stuff. I should probably watch it with my therapist! ;)

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>

> It's not Miss Goddess in Now, Voyager, it's Charlotte Vale. And what if it was Miss G in the film? Interesting. How about Quiet Gal or Jackie or CinemAva? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm...

>

 

My reactions wouldn't have been so very different to Charlotte's, at least not at a similar time in my life.

 

 

> For me, that's the most important scene in the film. That's where we come to understand Charlotte and her feelings. She has a flood of emotions inside of her and she's trying to conceal them. She's both excited and frightened... which is often how I imagine love makes you feel.

>

 

"Well I'm not going to struggle with you."

 

"Good idea. No telling what primitive instincts you might arouse."

 

I love his gentle humor with her.

 

"It's disgracefully late."

 

"Not by your Boston clocks."

 

:D

 

I've seen this movie so many times I have all this dialogue in my head.

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Okay, so I just finished watching Now, Voyager again and cried my eyes out, of course!

 

Frankie, you posted the caps from my favorite scene when they leave each other for the first time and she says, "Let me go" and then promptly lets him kiss her...multiple times I might add. Heehee! Steal my beating heart, that scene never gets old!

 

I really do find Charlotte's character fascinating and different.....I still say it's impossible even to compare Random Harvest to NV :D.....but anyway, I think she is the epitome girls with self-esteem problems. I love how she found herself and stood up to her wicked mother(brilliantly played by gladdy). Then she went and took Tina under her wing and helped her realize how beautiful and loved she was. I think, in multiple ways, that they both needed each other. They both needed the reassurance that they could be loved and were loved...by each other even though they were not mother and daughter. They needed to feel needed by someone in their lives to give them that glowing confidence.

 

Charlotte is such a strong person who was sheltered heavily by her stifling, controlling mother. She needed to live her own life and feel free and when she stumbled upon freedom, she still lacked the self-confidence of thinking any man could ever lover her. When Jerry met her, quite by happenstance, he gave her that unbelievable feeling of warmth and support. She felt as though he needed her and she needed him. Oh how she needed him! Oh how she wanted to be married with a child of her own....at first I think she just wanted him out of desperation, then I realized just how deeply she fell for him; heart and soul.

 

I also think that Charlotte took Tina into her own life b/c she felt a connection with her that reminded her strongly of Jerry. In a way, she might have wanted to be close to Tina, b/c it felt as though she were being close to him at the same time. But I really do think she loved Tina as though she could have been her own daughter.....as he said to her in the ending scene, "our child.".....hypothetically, of course.

 

Oh goodness there are so many things to cover in this enchanting movie!

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Wonderfully expressed, ButterTea! I agree that Tina and Charlotte needed each other. Charlotte got to relive a childhood she never had through Tina. Relaxed, without rules and rigid expectations of proper behavior. It's very sweet how they become so close.

 

And Charlotte knows how important it was for a young girl to feel pretty. That's why that scene at the party, when Jerry sees Tina in her new dress is so important. It's basically the same transformation Jerry helped to make in Charlotte when she came down the same stairs in her own "new dress" that time before.

 

I might add Jerry's reaction to his daughter was just perfect...and transcended to his love for Charlotte.

 

Edited by: MissGoddess on Feb 23, 2010 10:53 PM

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Good evening, Eliza -- Okay, so I just finished watching Now, Voyager again

 

Great!

 

and cried my eyes out, of course!

 

Oh, no.

 

but anyway, I think she is the epitome girls with self-esteem problems.

 

I agree. It's a nice twist on the "Ugly Duckling" tale.

 

Charlotte is such a strong person who was sheltered heavily by her stifling, controlling mother.

 

I don't think she was strong until Jerry came along. Jerry awakened her. Dr. Jaquith (Claude Rains) got her going, but she was very unsure of herself until Jerry came along.

 

I also think that Charlotte took Tina into her own life b/c she felt a connection with her that reminded her strongly of Jerry. In a way, she might have wanted to be close to Tina, b/c it felt as though she were being close to him at the same time. But I really do think she loved Tina as though she could have been her own daughter.....as he said to her in the ending scene, "our child.".....hypothetically, of course.

 

Very good! I'm with you. Charlotte needed Tina just as much as Tina needed her. She had just lost her mother and she felt responsible for her death. Tina provided her with a way to heal while also giving her an outlet for her love, which definitely included her love for Jerry. Not to mention, I believe she found a calling and a "home," a place to belong.

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> {quote:title=SueSueApplegate wrote:}{quote}

> *Now, Voyager* is so appealing on so many levels. I discover something new everytime I revisit it,

> and I don't care how many times TCM replays it.

 

Hi, Sue Sue! I'm so glad I'm not the only one who can watch it ad nauseum. :D It is probably in the top five or six films I've watched the most often and affects me the same each time.

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Good evening Dahlink!

 

Wonderfully expressed, ButterTea! I agree that Tina and Charlotte needed each other. Charlotte got to relive a childhood she never had through Tina. Relaxed, without rules and rigid expectations of proper behavior. It's very sweet how they become so close.

 

That's a very interesting analytical point! Charlotte did need to relive her own childhood through Tina's...It was her way of getting revenge for that childhood she never really had with an uncontrollable mother telling her how to live every moment of her life. I love watching their playtime together. Them going camping, fishing and eating ice cream. She let Tina have that freedom of her own, that she, herself, never had.

 

And Charlotte knows how important it was for a young girl to feel pretty. That's why that scene at the party, when Jerry sees Tina in her new dress is so important. It's basically the same transformation Jerry helped to make in Charlotte when she came down the same stairs in her own "new dress" that time before.

 

YES! I loved the scene when Tina is crying in bed covered completely with the sheets and Charlotte walks in and sits next to her caressing her hair and trying to calm her down. "I think you're very pretty.....well I like you." Tina really needed to hear it as much as everyone wanted Charlotte to ignore her crying escapades. It gave her the self-confidence every little girl needs when going through that difficult time in her life. I soooooo understand what Tina went through.....I think every little girl needs her "Camille" to make her feel as though she is important! It makes such a big difference!

 

I might add Jerry's reaction to his daughter was just perfect...and transcended to his love for Charlotte.

 

I agree whole-heartedly! I love that scene and when Jerry tells Tina that he loves her, he looks up at Charlotte and says it as if he is saying it to the both of them. Charlotte's facial expression said it all as the response to him!

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Howdy Jack!

 

Oh, no.

 

What now? Are you telling me you didn't cry even once during either of those movies?

 

I agree. It's a nice twist on the "Ugly Duckling" tale.

 

You're not suppose to agree with me......you must be having a bad day. Heehee!

 

I don't think she was strong until Jerry came along. Jerry awakened her. Dr. Jaquith (Claude Rains) got her going, but she was very unsure of herself until Jerry came along.

 

I think she was strong, she was just being too sheltered. If she wasn't strong, then she wouldn't have been able to find herself and blossom in the first place. She wouldn't have been able to recover the way she did at all. You have to be strong to do that and accept yourself the way you are.

 

Very good! I'm with you. Charlotte needed Tina just as much as Tina needed her. She had just lost her mother and she felt responsible for her death. Tina provided her with a way to heal while also giving her an outlet for her love, which definitely included her love for Jerry. Not to mention, I believe she found a calling and a "home," a place to belong.

 

That was so harsh for Charlotte to go through, feeling so responsible for her mother's death. I just wanna give her a hug!! Tina was the piece of the puzzle that was missing in Charlotte's heart. They were both at home when they were with each other and Jerry was always with her through Tina. I find that so sad, yet romantic.

 

One thing I find baffling is the last couple of ending scenes. Why all the sudden Jerry feels jealous of Tina's love for Charlotte, b/c she always wants to be with her, but he was never really there for her, even though I know he loved his daughter more than anything and wanted to be with her. Couldn't he just have said, "I love you Charlotte, let's get married, so you can be her mother." I mean honestly! Heehee!

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Mrs. Unromantic

 

OH brother... I make ONE little "comment" and... (ha... ok so it was longer than a "little comment'.. more like a LONG drawn out blab fest..ha.) Anyway... I am NOT unromantic... I am just... I don't know.. too demanding. ha. I want things MY way. ha. (did you read my 'break through moment in my last post to Miss Maven?? I have just discovered I am a control freak. ha)

 

So... how's it going Mr Bleeding Heart?? ha. :P:P

 

I always think a happy ending is much too tidy. I love messes. But you know this already. You know I find tragedy to be more thought-provoking and more emotional.

 

ALWAYS??? Surely not. I mean... I can see the benefit of a "unhappy ending" now and then I do admit sometimes it is better for the story as a whole ( afterall.. ha.. I HAVE been hanging out with YOU lately and watching more "tragedy" and NOIR-ISHness... ha) But does it ALWAYS have to be "messy"?? Can't there be a happy ending SOMETIMES??? (and by happy I mean...not just all smiles and sunshine... but some sort of good outcome for the major characters and a resoltion to the conflict in the story. Surely you can't be opposed to that ALL the time can you??? (Hey.. didn't Top Secret at least end on a happy note???) :P

 

So you would prefer an ending where Paula and Smithy stay apart. Me, too! It makes more sense.

 

OH no, no, no... ha. That would NEVER do. And PS: I know what I would do if it were ME and the QT suddenly could not recall who either of us were.. I would not CARE what anyone said to me... I would make SURE he knew the truth about who I was (even if he did not remember who HE was, ha) I would not sit around idly by and watch him make wedding plans with someone else..without telling him the truth, for crying out loud. He is going to KNOW who I am.... (ha.. although there likely HAVE been times when he wishes he COULD forget.. ha... Maybe I should paste a post it note on his forehead every day (written backwards) with his name and address and saying "Your name is QT and you are married to Kathy" so if he suddenly gets amnesia.. he won't have any excuse for not finding his way home.. ha. All he has to do is look in a mirror. (Note to self.. go buy some post it notes and glue) HA.

 

Now, Voyager is an unresolved love story. It's also a film of adultery. Just Charlotte's luck

 

Well that would be the "short" version. See.. you could have written my whole ramble for me in one line.. ha. Instead of me blabbing on and on like that. ha.

 

And PS... you caps do tell a pretty clear story as to Charlotte's state of mind. Good job with that sir. I know that there is truth in all you say. But I am steadfast in my "adultery is not ever a good answer and RARELY ever leads to true happiness when all is said and done" mindset... I know.. I am a stick in the mud.. I likely just need to "lighten up" and watch the movie. ha. And not think so hard about it I guess. Instead I guess I will just be the outcast on this one and hang out on my lonely mountaintop... ha. I have some ropes I need to freeze anyway... (ha)

 

I believe you speak for not only woman but also man. Naked.

 

OH golly.. ha. I hope if someone is going to speak for all those folks they will be more coherent than I am , ha. But thanks for seeing it that way. (and PS... just a tip here... "naked" in terms of emotion and being HONEST about who you are with the one you love.. is the ONLY way to dress for success.)

 

Noooooooooooooooooooo! That's not a good ending! It's way too tidy! Blech! I want the mess! I want the Doniphon story!

 

I am having trouble with that comparison because (among other things) although I DO see how Tom had to choose to walk away.. he was the one being left.... more or less. HE would be "the mean wife" instead of Charllotte in this story.. Apples and Oranges, my friend... or should I say.. Camelias and Cacti... ha. :-)

 

PS Miss Maven... no problem on the Raisinettes.. ha. I am more of a "Junior Mint" kinda gal. ha.

 

PSS: Mr. Madhat Molo: I'll be back soon. I promised Kathy I would get back to TBYOOL. She's been surprisingly patient with me......

 

Too Patient! Something's up

 

Well.... didn't you just read?? I am ABLE to be patient because I am up on my lonely mountaintop right now.. I have all the time in the world to get my frozen ropes sorted out and ready... I NEVER know when one will come in handy... (BIG hint, ha) :P

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Good evening, Sour T :P -- I think she was strong, she was just being too sheltered. If she wasn't strong, then she wouldn't have been able to find herself and blossom in the first place. She wouldn't have been able to recover the way she did at all. You have to be strong to do that and accept yourself the way you are.

 

You make a good point. A weak girl wouldn't show any kind of strength and Charlotte does show strength and courage at different times.

 

Tina was the piece of the puzzle that was missing in Charlotte's heart. They were both at home when they were with each other and Jerry was always with her through Tina. I find that so sad, yet romantic.

 

That was lovely, T. I also find it to be sad, yet romantic.

 

One thing I find baffling is the last couple of ending scenes. Why all the sudden Jerry feels jealous of Tina's love for Charlotte, b/c she always wants to be with her, but he was never really there for her, even though I know he loved his daughter more than anything and wanted to be with her. Couldn't he just have said, "I love you Charlotte, let's get married, so you can be her mother." I mean honestly! Heehee!

 

There you go again! You're always looking for divorces!

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Hey there, Quiet Gal -- OH brother... I make ONE little "comment" and... (ha... ok so it was longer than a "little comment'.. more like a LONG drawn out blab fest..ha.) Anyway... I am NOT unromantic... I am just... I don't know.. too demanding. ha. I want things MY way. ha.

 

And you should know I'm being tough on you because, well, I like being tough on you. :P I like that you push me back. You're no shrinking violet. More like a shrieking one.

 

(did you read my 'break through moment in my last post to Miss Maven?? I have just discovered I am a control freak. ha)

 

I did see that! That made me laugh. We're rather similar, in that regard. You know, the value of discussions like this, for me, is that you (and others) make me think. Sometimes I'm pushed to think about something I think I know and sometimes it's about something I didn't even consider. I like that.

 

For example, I was just thinking, how would I feel if my daughter told me, "Dad, I'm in love with a married man"? My answer: I wouldn't like it... one bit. I would think the worst of the man, too. And, with myself, I would struggle to have any kind of involvement with a married woman, no matter how much she told me she's trapped in a loveless marriage. Unlike Butterscotch :P , I fully respect marriage.

 

So, I actually come down on your side when it comes to the rights and wrongs of love. This makes Now, Voyager all the more fascinating to me. It goes against my beliefs, yet I found it wonderful. Remarkable.

 

So... how's it going Mr Bleeding Heart?? ha.

 

:D It's going good.

 

I always think a happy ending is much too tidy. I love messes. But you know this already. You know I find tragedy to be more thought-provoking and more emotional.

 

ALWAYS??? Surely not. I mean... I can see the benefit of a "unhappy ending" now and then I do admit sometimes it is better for the story as a whole ( afterall.. ha.. I HAVE been hanging out with YOU lately and watching more "tragedy" and NOIR-ISHness... ha) But does it ALWAYS have to be "messy"?? Can't there be a happy ending SOMETIMES??? (and by happy I mean...not just all smiles and sunshine... but some sort of good outcome for the major characters and a resoltion to the conflict in the story. Surely you can't be opposed to that ALL the time can you??? (Hey.. didn't Top Secret at least end on a happy note???)

 

Crap! You caught me. No, you are RIGHT, I certainly like my share of happy endings. They are often predictable, but still enjoyable. Most of my favorites have "happy endings."

 

OH no, no, no... ha. That would NEVER do. And PS: I know what I would do if it were ME and the QT suddenly could not recall who either of us were.. I would not CARE what anyone said to me... I would make SURE he knew the truth about who I was (even if he did not remember who HE was, ha) I would not sit around idly by and watch him make wedding plans with someone else..without telling him the truth, for crying out loud. He is going to KNOW who I am.... (ha.. although there likely HAVE been times when he wishes he COULD forget.. ha... Maybe I should paste a post it note on his forehead every day (written backwards) with his name and address and saying "Your name is QT and you are married to Kathy" so if he suddenly gets amnesia.. he won't have any excuse for not finding his way home.. ha. All he has to do is look in a mirror. (Note to self.. go buy some post it notes and glue) HA.

 

Now that killed me! I'm sure your husband would get a kick out of that one.

 

So you would tell the doctor, "the heck with losing him forever, I'm doing it my way!" Yeah, that sounds like you. :)

 

And PS... you caps do tell a pretty clear story as to Charlotte's state of mind. Good job with that sir. I know that there is truth in all you say.

 

Thank you.

 

But I am steadfast in my "adultery is not ever a good answer and RARELY ever leads to true happiness when all is said and done" mindset... I know.. I am a stick in the mud.. I likely just need to "lighten up" and watch the movie. ha. And not think so hard about it I guess. Instead I guess I will just be the outcast on this one and hang out on my lonely mountaintop... ha. I have some ropes I need to freeze anyway... (ha)

 

:D I think most everyone here is actually on your side with the common sense. But I love conflict! I mean, real conflict. Now, Voyager has that.

 

(and PS... just a tip here... "naked" in terms of emotion and being HONEST about who you are with the one you love.. is the ONLY way to dress for success.)

 

That was sharp! I completely agree. That should make you feel like putting on a hundred pairs of long johns.

 

The hard part is finding someone who you feel comfortable being naked with.

 

I am having trouble with that comparison because (among other things) although I DO see how Tom had to choose to walk away.. he was the one being left.... more or less. HE would be "the mean wife" instead of Charllotte in this story.. Apples and Oranges, my friend... or should I say.. Camelias and Cacti... ha.

 

But I believe Doniphon still loved Hallie and died loving her despite her being married. I believe he died lonely and heartbroken. I'm not sure if that was ever spoken, it's just how I envision it. So Doniphon is the "Charlotte" in the triangle, for he is the unmarried one in love. He's loving her from afar. And he knows she's never coming back to him. He would have probably agreed with you when you told him, "get over it, pilgrim."

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Hey Frank-a-zoid!

 

You make a good point. A weak girl wouldn't show any kind of strength and Charlotte does show strength and courage at different times.

 

A-Ha! I got you! Finally! Heehee!

 

That was lovely, T. I also find it to be sad, yet romantic.

 

Don't look know, Frankie, but you're showing your soft romantic side. :D

 

There you go again! You're always looking for divorces!

 

No I'm not! It's a movie, silly! why do you always have to be so full of delusions?

 

What did you think of Bonita Granville in NV?

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" 'Now Voyager' made my list of favorite films that CineMaven requested about a year ago."

 

What an amazing memory (or database) you have. Yes, I remember compiling that list from several folks. "Duck Soup" "His Girl Friday" "In A Lonely Place" and "My Favorite Wife" were among the favorite films on your list, right?

 

"I confess! It's the perfect Bette Davis film. Right up there with 'The Letter' and 'All About Eve' in my book. It's a very romantic film but the journey of Charlotte Vale and her metamorphosis, even if contrived, is what captures my imagination. A second chance. A life regained. I love that stuff. I should probably watch it with my therapist!"

 

I thought WE were your therapists? Nicely nicely written Molito.

 

In fact, I'm loving this entire ramble and the thoughts evinced from watching Charlotte's struggle with becoming her own person. Funny, I never thought of the adultery aspect of this film. See what happens when Hollywood sugarcoats things with love and camelias and Max Steiner music. We lose our heads and our hearts. The screen caps help sooooooo much to illustrate points. And it brings the movie vividly to mind.

 

Rohanaka, you may be up in a mountaintop...but you're welcome to climb down any time and hang with the rest of us. We'd love to have you. (Just bring enough Junior Mints for everybody).

 

Why do I keep hearing Bette Midler????

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> Well.... didn't you just read?? I am ABLE to be patient because I am up on my lonely mountaintop right now.. I have all the time in the world to get my frozen ropes sorted out and ready... I NEVER know when one will come in handy... (BIG hint, ha) :P

 

Not so lonely. :) When it comes to the adultery angle, I am with you. It is like Maven and Frank said, the movie really messes with our emotions and that's what I get caught up in, instead of the real issue at hand which you are right not to lose sight of. Maybe I want to believe what the poet said, that it is still better for Charlotte to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. She certainly shows herself to have become a better or happier person because of the encounter and she truly does not want to rob another woman of her husband and security (I won't say "happiness" because the wife evidently is one who takes pleasure from unhappiness).

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