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> {quote:title=CineMaven wrote:}{quote}

> In fact, I'm loving this entire ramble and the thoughts evinced from watching Charlotte's struggle with becoming her own person. Funny, I never thought of the adultery aspect of this film. See what happens when Hollywood sugarcoats things with love and camelias and Max Steiner music. We lose our heads and our hearts. The screen caps help sooooooo much to illustrate points. And it brings the movie vividly to mind.

> Why do I keep hearing Bette Midler????

I think that is the point of NV. Charlotte Vale is on this journey.

 

Great thread, Maven. I don't know if I agree with the notion of sugarcoating infidelity. Charlotte Vale is the only one not being guilty about it. Jerry is downright whipped when we first meet him. Sorry guys, but he is. And he tries to make some sort emotional amends about it. The book paints his wife as a master manipulator (read Prouty's book years ago). And The Wife would Never agree to a divorce.

 

Life is blessedly too complicated to equate Jerry Dorrance with Tiger Woods. I think that's why this story resonants, it takes us through some pretty murky waters and points out the paths that are reality.

 

Think of the way the story shows her relationship with her mother.. We need Dr Jacquith there just to explain it.

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Hello, my DEAR Grey Guy :P

 

And you should know I'm being tough on you because, well, I like being tough on you. I like that you push me back

 

I DO know it. You keep me on my "muddy" toes. ha. And I like being tough on you too, sir. ha. And I am glad you like me to push back.. ha. You are fun to push around... but you are NO pushover. You always present your case in a well thought out way (despite all your wrongheadedness).. ha.. (ok.. that last bit was just me being tough on you.. ha) :D

 

You're no shrinking violet. More like a shrieking one

 

Ha.. I WOULD give you grief about calling me a name like that.. but with the kind of weather we've been having lately.. by golly a flower is a flower.. ha.(So I will take it as a compliment. HA!)

 

JP%20Overby%20Wild%20Violet.preview.jpg

 

You know, the value of discussions like this, for me, is that you (and others) make me think. Sometimes I'm pushed to think about something I think I know and sometimes it's about something I didn't even consider. I like that.

 

Well we have nothing to argue about THERE my ramblin' friend. That is one of the things I value about all this blabbing too. ha. I do enjoy a good gab and I like it when all the various ideas can be laid on the table (WITHOUT the bloodbath part, ha) and everybody can come away with maybe a little different perspective... even if they still hold on to the one they started with too.

 

For example, I was just thinking, how would I feel if my daughter told me, "Dad, I'm in love with a married man"? My answer: I wouldn't like it... one bit

 

And there you have it. It IS a lot to think about, when you stop and think about it. And for whatever reason.. that is all I seemed to think about once this story got started... (Not so much of the "I think adultery is wrong" this time... but more "I don't think adultery is going to make Charlotte (or Jerry that matter) really happy at the end of the day)

 

 

I fully respect marriage.

 

So, I actually come down on your side when it comes to the rights and wrongs of love. This makes Now, Voyager all the more fascinating to me. It goes against my beliefs, yet I found it wonderful. Remarkable.

 

 

And see.. I said this yesterday, but I think that is how Now Voyager was maybe intended to be viewed... more about the individual people and their plight... (especially Charlotte's journy OUT of her old self and into the new) and not so much as a "glorification" of an affair. And I really don't see it as "glorified" adultery... but the fact remains that IS what this story ends up with at the end of the day... we are supposed to be happy for both these people (and Tina too) that they have found one another and are going to go for whatever happiness they can finally have together... But I guess what it boils down to is... I was unbable to do this personally because I was not in agreement that it really WAS going to lead to their ulitmate happiness. (especially not Charlotte's) I think you are right.. She IS going to reach a point someday where it is NOT enough to only get PART of Jerry's life... (or even Tina's for that matter) and it will become harder and harder for her to accept this, the longer she is in that relationship. So again, I am trying to say is that I just had to hard a time forgetting all that to like the story as much as I WISHED I could.

 

 

(and PS Miss G:) Not so lonely. When it comes to the adultery angle, I am with you. It is like Maven and Frank said, the movie really messes with our emotions and that's what I get caught up in, instead of the real issue at hand which you are right not to lose sight of. Maybe I want to believe what the poet said, that it is still better for Charlotte to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. She certainly shows herself to have become a better or happier person because of the encounter and she truly does not want to rob another woman of her husband and security (I won't say "happiness" because the wife evidently is one who takes pleasure from unhappiness).

 

I was trying to explain yesterday to Miss Maven how I tend to take movies too personally sometimes. I ALWAYS think of the "what if's" (like the Grey Guy's scenario w/ a daughter for instance) Or at least I usually do. It is rare for me to see a film like this one and not take it to heart. It IS an emotioanal story. And the characters are very sympathetic. That is what makes it so much a favorite with so many, I am sure. But I am such a "dope" sometimes and it is hard for me to watch a movie any other way than without my "world view" and my "here's where I stand on that issue" attatched. So consequently, I bring all my cards to the table everywhere I go, so to speak. Ha. And that is sometimes a LOT of baggage (or should I say "blabbage" ha) when it comes time for me to explain what I THINK about a movie or a storyline or a character... but it's who I am.. ha. It's what I do. :-) But I do appreciate folks putting up with me and my "whacky" thoughts. ha.

 

And I am glad to hear this time that I am not so alone on my mountaintop as I thought. (ha) Thanks everybody.

 

You caught me. No, you are RIGHT, I certainly like my share of happy endings. They are often predictable, but still enjoyable. Most of my favorites have "happy endings."

 

ANOTHER breakthrough moment. ha. You heard it first HERE folks. Ha. (Maybe Miss Maven was right when she told Molo THIS place was therapy.. ha. I discovered I am a CONTROL freak.. and YOU (my DEAR Mr. Grey") are just a big fluffy marshmallow SOFTIE, afterall. ha. What a moment. :P:P

 

Ha.. Who needs a doctor when we have "Rambles JR"??? Ha.

 

So you would tell the doctor, "the heck with losing him forever, I'm doing it my way!" Yeah, that sounds like you

 

Ha.. I say again.. WHO needs a Doctor??? ha. (ok.. I take that back.. ha. The next time I NEED major surgery or even a bandaid. ha I DO.. sorry all you medical folks) ha. But NO kidding.. I would NOT allow my husband to go NEARLY so far down his amnesiac path as to start to make WEDDING PLANS with someone else (right in front of me, no less) without finding SOME way to tell him the TRUTH. (those post it notes were NO joke, mister. Ha.. that QT is mine all mine all MINE. ha.)

 

But I believe Doniphon still loved Hallie and died loving her despite her being married. I believe he died lonely and heartbroken. I'm not sure if that was ever spoken, it's just how I envision it. So Doniphon is the "Charlotte" in the triangle, for he is the unmarried one in love. He's loving her from afar. And he knows she's never coming back to him.

 

OK... you got me there. (and after I was feeling all "smug" and proud of myself about my "camelias and cacti" crack. ha). I do agree with your comparison told from that angle.

 

He would have probably agreed with you when you told him, "get over it, pilgrim

 

Maybe... ha. Right after he SOCKED me in the jaw and stormed out.. ha. He IS the Duke afer all. Ha. :-)

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Well speaking as "The Other Woman" in some past relationships...it doesn't stop me from enjoying something like "From The Terrace" or "The Man In the Grey Flannel Suit" where I am thoroughly on the wife's side in those films.

 

Who'd thunk that a woman's picture made seventy years ago, would engender so much conversation...from the mountaintops...to the deep vallies.

 

Oh...and I love the hills and dales too.

 

(Okay, okay...what the heck IS a dale?)

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Hey Lovely Larry!

 

I confess! It's the perfect Bette Davis film. Right up there with 'The Letter' and 'All About Eve' in my book. It's a very romantic film but the journey of Charlotte Vale and her metamorphosis, even if contrived, is what captures my imagination. A second chance. A life regained. I love that stuff. I should probably watch it with my therapist!

 

WOW! That's the perfect description of the movie, actually! "A second chance. A life regained." How insightful, Molo! She had the strength to pull herself back to what she had always wanted even as a child. To be beautiful. To be herself without anyone deciding for her.

 

Hey TH-Maven!

 

In fact, I'm loving this entire ramble and the thoughts evinced from watching Charlotte's struggle with becoming her own person. Funny, I never thought of the adultery aspect of this film. See what happens when Hollywood sugarcoats things with love and camelias and Max Steiner music. We lose our heads and our hearts. The screen caps help sooooooo much to illustrate points. And it brings the movie vividly to mind.

 

Don't I know it....all those camellias and sugarcoated Max Steiner music! I'd tell Hollywood to cut it out, but then I wouldn't have my little dream world anymore. Heehee!

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"Don't I know it....all those camellias and sugarcoated Max Steiner music! I'd tell Hollywood to cut it out, but then I wouldn't have my little dream world anymore. Heehee!"

 

Well TH-Greer...the trick is to deal with reality, while keeping the dream.

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Well, to coin an expression, if you REALLY want to see some "blabbage" ( I do like that phrase) come on down to the Westerns Forum. I left you a little post about *Wagon Master* in the thread of the same title. If you are like me, it wasn't even a watched thread anymore, so I'm giving you a little nudge.

 

See? I didn't leave you high and dry. It only took me six months to get back to you.

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Does anyone like Duel in the Sun? I just watched it today on TV and realized that I hadn't ever really seen it all the way through, though I thought I had before. Apparently I had never seen the ending, b/c it didn't look familiar to me. It's funny, b/c I've seen the movie dozens of times at Grandmama's house...I guess I was too busy chatting with her and didn't ever notice the ending. Heehee!

 

I have always had bittersweet emotions toward this movie mainly hoe Gregory Peck treated Jennifer Jones and the fact that she fell for him instead of Joseph Cotton who was so much nicer to her. Although Gregory Peck was sooooo handsome in it!

 

***SPOILER***

 

I just didn't really like the ending all that much. It bothered me, I guess, b/c she shot the man she loved, although I understood HER reason for doing it and then he shot her, b/c he thought she was someone else just shooting at him and then he finally professes his love for her, which he never really was serious about until he realized he was dying. Then she crawls her way toward him on her hands and stomach to resolve their issues and says that she loves him again. Who would do that?!

 

Please noone get mad at me for saying that, but I would really like someone else's opinion of this movie and especially the ending scene. Does anyone agree with me in the slightest?

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Hey, scotchie -

 

I actually like the ending the best part of the whole movie. D'oh!

 

I agree with everything you say, but I like seeing the way they end up together all sprawled there. Once again like in *Now Voyager* - in real life, I could never stand a woman running after a terrible guy like Lewt, NEVER! but in this movie? yeah!

 

It's never been one of my favorite movies, some of it is laughable, but it has definitely grown on me over the years.... and certain parts I love.

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I actually like the ending the best part of the whole movie. D'oh!

 

Really??

 

I agree with everything you say, but I like seeing the way they end up together all sprawled there. Once again like in Now Voyager - in real life, I could never stand a woman running after a terrible guy like Lewt, NEVER! but in this movie? yeah!

 

Yeah but they die from killing each other all sprawled up together....that's not the MOST romantic thing in the world. Heehee!

 

It's never been one of my favorite movies, some of it is laughable, but it has definitely grown on me over the years.... and certain parts I love.

 

I do like some of the laughable parts! There are some really cute scenes! I guess you're right, Wendy. Maybe I should watch it a few more times for it to grow on me...the ending that is. I usually like Jennifer Jones(favorite is Bernadette) but her performance in Duel in the Sun is a bit overwhelming at times too. Maybe it's just me. :)

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"Duel in the Sun" is one of my favorite guilty pleasures.

Love the stars especially Jones and bad boy Peck, the color, the scope, the score and Peck's horse.

Good stuff from Selznick.

 

Edited by: mongo on Feb 25, 2010 9:54 PM

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DUEL IN THE SUN is one of my guilty pleasures, too. It's sort of like Italian opera without the music. Or the Italian. The acting styles are all over the place, yet somehow that doesn't wreck the film.

 

One of the little touches that works: Butterfly McQueen as Vashti wants to get married, but there's no man around that this society would see as suitable for her. This is a comic echoing of Pearl's predicament.

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Awesome, kingrat! You just made me laugh, with the Italian.....

 

I love that you found an echoing of Pearl's dilemma in Vashti... nice job! I think my favorite parts are more separate from the love triangle, and center on the character performances and the lush color and cinematography.

 

Charles Bickford completely wins my heart in this one... and every other film he was in. What an unsung actor.

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*Shepherd Of The Hills.*

 

Whatever else is to be said of this film it is arguably the most beautiful looking film I have ever seen. I can only assume it was shot in the Ozarks (more likely Oregon) it is green in the right spots and blue in the right spots and even the interiors are lovely.

 

John Wayne leads the cast but it feels more like Harry Carey's movie as he plays someone who comes to the area to buy a piece of land. He is looked on with suspicion since he is a stranger to them. It's a journey for several characters. Carey comes to connect with his past. Wayne looks to cleanse his past and everyone else is caught, for better or worse, in the middle.

 

SPOILERS

 

It takes a while for the story to unfold to find out why Carey is there. He buys a piece of land that is "unhappy." No one wants to go on it and some people are unhappy that it was sold to him. Wayne's mother is buried there. He goes for a visit and at her grave the music comes in the background that plays a lullaby theme. (One interesting shot has Wayne cast a shadow over the grave much like Joanne Dru does when visiting Wayne in "Yellow Ribbon.) Later after Carey moved into the log house he sits at the piano and punches out the same lullaby connecting him and Wayne. The journey then becomes about their connection. (Another interesting shot of Carey coming into his house very much suggests the later "door" shots in Ford's "The Searchers.")

 

Unusual location and setting as there is really no time frame but this is an isolated group of superstitious people who also have religious aspect to their community. Carey comes and is able to help the community medically and befriends them through his help. The most moving scene is where Marjorie Main prays for Carey after he helps a little girl. Having been on the receiving end of such a gesture it is a wonderful subtle scene.

 

Supported by a good cast of familiar faces it is not a terribly deep movie and some of it is a little slow and hard to get hold of but if you only watch it once enjoy the scenery because it is what every film should look like and so seldom does.

 

Edited by: movieman1957 on Feb 27, 2010 8:21 PM

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Terrific post on one of my unsung favorites, Chris. I agree, it is a ravishing looking movie and I read that it was filmed where the story takes place, so it's quite authentic. Hathaway let himself get more poetic and emotional with this little story and when he does that, he really shows his versatility and sensitivity---something he's not known for, being thought of as more of an action director.

 

I thought this was one of Harry Carey's finest roles, and he brings so much with few words. A great actor in a very poignant performance. I like that he is figured as a kind of "healer" in many respects. The hurt in Wayne's character has to be dealt with and Carey's way of handling him is so touching.

 

And how about that Beulah Bondi! Whew! She really warmed up for Track of the Cat in this turn. What a witch!

 

Some parts of the movie reminded me of The Yearling, in that you get to see the people in a non-stereotypical light, not just as scary backwoods yokels. And I was very impressed with Betty Field, especially after subsequent viewings. She's a smart cookie, even though she is not immune to the superstitions of the folk, she has a good heart and tries to be fair. Some nice humor mixed in and I agree, Marjorie Main's scene was most moving.

 

_Jackie_, I can't wait for you to see it, I think you will enjoy it. And _rohanaka_, I know we've talked before about how you want to revisit it, I think you said you had seen it once upon a time. I just know you would like it.

 

Maybe tomorrow I can post some screencaps when I feel more energetic. In the meantime, thanks for starting the ramble, Chris. :)

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And rohanaka, I know we've talked before about how you want to revisit it, I think you said you had seen it once upon a time. I just know you would like it

 

Little gal, I have only seen portions of it.. YEARS and years ago. (some of the middle and part of the ending) and I did not even know what I was watching when it was on.. and have NEVER come across it since. (alas)

 

But I DO recall how MEAN and awful our dear Ms Bondi was... what a shocker for me.. ha. I had not seen TOTC yet when I saw the bit of SOTH so long ago..ha. So it really got my attention how WITCHY she really was. I had NEVER seen her like that before.

 

I will be waiting on the edge of my seat to read eveyone's posts .. I will enjoy your screencaps too. It will be the next best thing to being there. :-)

 

THANKS Mr. Movieman for bringing this one up here. (and PS, I do recall the scenery too.. and I don?t know if was the Ozarks or not.. but I have been to the Ozarks.. on more than one occasion, and it IS every bit that beautiful.)

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