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Wow, you guys really have me confused between *Wake of the Red Witch* and *Reap the Wild Wind.* I keep reminding myself that *Reap* is in color with the Duke, Ray Milland, Susan Hayward, and Paulette Goddard, and *Wake* is the Duke, Gail Russell, and Raymond Massey, in B&W. Then somehow *Wuthering Heights* got into the mix, and completely threw me for a loop. Actually I'm kidding, although I think *Reap* is the better picture, but lousy ending. I agree with whoever it is that likes to know as much as they can about the individual characters. To me it helps understand the plot of the story, and all of you have the gift of being able to put it all in words, which I don't. I can break down the story line, but not the people.

 

In any case, I had a few laughs at myself in reading your posts, because I had to keep back tracking to see which movie you were talking about every now and then. Anyway, keep the juices flowing because you're all fun to read.

________________________________

*Anne*

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WAKE OF THE SPOILED RED WITCH

 

Well, since you stuck the knife in my heart :P and I didn't have any good answers for you :D , Quiet Gal, I decided to watch the film again, today. And, thanks to you, I ended up liking it more. I actually cried a little. Oh, my.

 

I'm now convinced the film is about this:

 

wakeoftheredwitch1-1.png

 

It's about men and their drives and ambitions. They are often selfish and quite reckless. The one thing that usually slows them down or brings them to a halt is a woman. The right woman.

 

wakeoftheredwitch7-1.png

 

Now, in Wake of the Red Witch, "she" refers to Angelique (Gail Russell) and the sea. In this regard, the film reminds me of Pandora and the Flying Dutchman. I also felt the end was very similar to The Ghost and Mrs. Muir. It's the "male" version.

 

ghostandmrsmuir10.jpg

 

wakeoftheredwitch9.jpg

 

wakeoftheredwitch3-1.jpg

 

You mentioned wanting to know more about Ralls (John Wayne), why he is how he is. Ironically, you happen to be the opposite of Angelique.

 

Ralls: You don't know anything about me.

 

Angelique: I've heard things...

 

Ralls: Didn't Sidneye tell you where he found me?

 

Angelique: What difference does it make where he found you? We found each other.

 

wakeoftheredwitch4-1.jpg

 

There are some very beautiful words and feelings exchanged between Ralls and Angelique throughout the film. I didn't take them all in with my first viewing. This time, they impacted me.

 

Angelique: The only thing that matters is you're still alive.

 

Ralls: Only that?

 

Angelique: That includes everything.

 

Ralls: You? It includes you?

 

wakeoftheredwitch5.jpg

 

Ralls: I don't want to ever hurt you.

 

Angelique: You never will.

 

Ralls: I hurt everything.

 

Now those are some seriously strong words from Ralls. He understands how reckless and wrong he has been in his life. And look how Angelique handles that:

 

Angelique: Not anymore.

 

Ralls: You believe that?

 

Angelique: I believe in you.

 

Wow!

 

wakeoftheredwitch6-2.jpg

 

Then we get to the deeper meaning of the film:

 

Ralls: Something happened today... in that water. I felt myself floating up, got bright, there was singing, everything dark was washed away and I couldn't look back. Then I heard your voice. And you said...

 

Angelique: I love you, Ralls.

 

Ralls: That's what you said.

 

Angelique: It's all I've ever wanted to say.

 

Wonderful. Absolutely wonderful.

 

And back to the meaning:

 

Ralls: If someone had told me that one day I'd open my eyes and find a new world, I'd have called him a liar. But, it's true. There is a new world. And I've found it. It's you.

 

Man sails around the world, looking for his treasure. Is it on the map? Is it all explained to him?

 

wakeoftheredwitch8.jpg

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I was going to wait for Ro to answer you but I agree with Jackie,

that was a wonderful post and it moved me more than the movie did!

 

I will watch those scenes again. To quote butterscotch, "I have a tear!"

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That shot in the window, where he is carrying her I definitely see both Wuthering Heights AND The Ghost and Mrs. Muir.

 

Hmmmmmmm... I'm gonna have to watch Wuthering Heights.

 

I love what you wrote here, Frank. I only wish I had seen the movie recently so I could understand it more fully.

 

Thank you, Spunky.

 

There's a scene in the film where I think you would relate to.

 

Angelique: Ships fascinate me. They seem so, well, so alive and yet they're just wood and iron, beams and planks. And yet, someone, somewhere puts it together and it becomes alive. It slides down the ways and it's a ship.

 

Ralls: It's more than a ship. It's a home, a world, a breathing thing. Nothing holds it back. The wind takes it and carries it for ten thousand miles. Every one of those miles, you're free. It's like being a bird. Instead of the sky, it's the sea. You have a whole empire of freedom, sea freedom. You're alive the same way the ship is alive. You run before the wind, you never wanna stop.

 

Angelique: What is it?

 

Ralls: Awwww, I'm talking foolish.

 

Angelique: Oh, I don't think so. I think people should talk about the things they love.

 

Ralls: Some people don't dare to love.

 

I got the feeling of Captain Gregg (Rex Harrison) talking to Lucy Muir (Gene Tierney). Both men are bigger than life to the women who are taken by them. They'd love to experience what they have experienced, for they are viewing it with romantic eyes.

 

wakeoftheredwitch10.jpg

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Oh.. for pity's sake...

 

Ok.. get ready for a HUGE laugh at my expense. ha. Get ready for TRUE Confessions of the Hopelessly Doofy. (I told some one the other day that I was such a doofus that way back in my "youth" ha.. I had planned to make it my college major.. and when I got there they said I was TOO doofy and made me "DEAN OF DOOFINESS STUDIES" instead. ha.. sad but TRUE!! (ok.. I am making that up.. but I AM the reigning queen of natural born doofuses.. or is it dooffusi??)

 

Anyway..... Remember how I told you that I really could nor remember much about Wake of the Red Witch and how it had been a LONG LONG time since I saw it (decades maybe) and that all I could recall was that John Wayne croaked in it.. and there was an Octopus??????????

 

After reading Miss G and mrsl's posts about Reap the Wild Wind.... THAT is the movie I saw a LONG LONG TIME AGO!! ha. And I feel so much better.. ha... because all the way through WOTRW I kept thinking.. gee.. I really don't remember THAT.. and Gee.. how could I have forgotten THAT??? ha. But when I went into the TCM database and read the synopsis of RTWW.. THAT is the movie I am remembering!! ha.

 

(did I mention I was doofy??????) :D

 

So gosh.. this is a GOOD thing that we have YOU to thank for bringing WOTRW into the limelight for me, Mr. Grey. Otherwise.. I'd have gone on confusing the two movies FOREVER. (and now I have to go see if I can find a copy of RTWW and watch it for comparisons.. .ha Oh boy.. I did mention my "doofiness", didn't I?????? Golly I am getting old.. ha.

 

Ok.. so now on to the rumbling.. I mean rambling.. ha.

 

SPOILER OF THE RED WITCH to follow:

 

Well, since you stuck the knife in my heart

 

Knife?? What knife.. to quote YOU.. ha.. I am innocent. And besides, I only use HATPINS! :P

 

I decided to watch the film again, today. And, thanks to you, I ended up liking it more. I actually cried a little. Oh, my

 

Oh my indeed. Wowsa.. I love how you go all out, Grey Guy. You really sink your teeth into things.. and THAT sir, is what makes discussing these films so much fun. I think it is good for both of us that you did some investigating too because some of your post made me remember another thing I wanted to talk about to.. (more on that in a moment) And PS: I LOVE the use of the screencaps and dialogue.. you really have done a terrifc job of bringout out some interesting (and very moving) aspects of Ralls and the story too.

 

I'm now convinced the film is about this:

 

You do have a point (but it helps me make my own point as well) He does have a "past" and everyone seems to know all about him and what it is that led him to where he ended up (except us)

 

It's about men and their drives and ambitions. They are often selfish and quite reckless. The one thing that usually slows them down or brings them to a halt is a woman. The right woman.

 

That is a great point of view to hang this whole story on. I agree. It goes deeper than that in some ways.. but it is a good frame work to more or less describe the story as a whole.

 

Now, in Wake of the Red Witch, "she" refers to Angelique (Gail Russell) and the sea.

 

Maybe.. but honestly, I thought Paul Fix was saying "she" and meaning the boat. Fix said something earlier about how The Red Witch was after him. I need to watch it again. Either way though.. YOU are right.. Angelique did get him... and so did the sea. (and I won't give out any HUGE Wuthering HEIGHTS spoiler.. but there is a big comparison that way too.. only not w/ the sea... I have likely said too much already)

 

I also felt the end was very similar to The Ghost and Mrs. Muir. It's the "male" version.

 

Ha.. you might be right.. it is the "guys" version.. ha. I don't think it would have been as "macho' for John Wayne to have to wait until he was an old man and die in his sleep for them to finally be together. ha.

 

You mentioned wanting to know more about Ralls (John Wayne), why he is how he is. Ironically, you happen to be the opposite of Angelique.

 

True.. she wanted to just love him for who he was when he was with HER and did not hold him to any sort of standard beyond that.. and although I liked his character.. flaws and all, and I wanted to love him.. I also wanted to know MORE about who he was.. inquiring minds wanna know. :-)

 

There are some very beautiful words and feelings exchanged between Ralls and Angelique throughout the film. I didn't take them all in with my first viewing. This time, they impacted me

 

She really was a beautiful woman.. inside and out.. I think her character was meant to be "pure".. especially of heart... and Gail did a great job w/ that aspect of her for sure.

 

Then we get to the deeper meaning of the film:

 

Man sails around the world, looking for his treasure. Is it on the map?

 

And this brings me back to what I wanted to say earlier but forgot.. thanks for the reminder.. he DID seem to have a repentant "moment' where all his past washed away and he wanted to be a new man.. if only to be happy with her.. but alas.. it was not meant to be... (at least for the moment anyway)

 

PS: Miss G: More like Chicken of the Sea! (It is chicken, right?)

 

Ha. you do not strike me as being a Tuna.. but if you are saying you are a "chicken" of the sea.. ha.. I am with you, my sister. I swim like a ROCK!! :D

 

Ah, sweet romance!! I can't wait for the Wuthering Heights rumble!

 

I am looking forward to it for sure.. maybe you all can help me finally come to terms w/ WHY I love it so much and yet hate the characters all at the same time, ha.

 

He was pretty transparent. It helped that all the men seemed to suffer from

the same fit of envy, except Rosen.

 

And Paul Fix too. ha. (Funny that the Grey Guy should mention To Have and Have Not earlier.. ha. He was very "Walter Brennanish" in this one.. did someone already say that??)

 

Ray Milland and Susan Hayward are in it, along with Paulette Goddard and a giant squid (or octopus)

 

HA... well.. did you see what I wrote at the beginning of this post.. ha.. appearantly I HAVE seen this film.. duh!! (did I mention I was a doofus??) :D

 

Edited by: rohanaka on Sep 6, 2010 8:16 PM

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> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}

> That shot in the window, where he is carrying her I definitely see both Wuthering Heights AND The Ghost and Mrs. Muir.

>

> Hmmmmmmm... I'm gonna have to watch Wuthering Heights.

 

Yes, you are - it's nice and dark.

 

 

> There's a scene in the film where I think you would relate to.

>

> Angelique: Ships fascinate me. They seem so, well, so alive and yet they're just wood and iron, beams and planks. And yet, someone, somewhere puts it together and it becomes alive. It slides down the ways and it's a ship.

>

> Ralls: It's more than a ship. It's a home, a world, a breathing thing. Nothing holds it back. The wind takes it and carries it for ten thousand miles. Every one of those miles, you're free. It's like being a bird. Instead of the sky, it's the sea. You have a whole empire of freedom, sea freedom. You're alive the same way the ship is alive. You run before the wind, you never wanna stop.

>

> Angelique: What is it?

>

> Ralls: Awwww, I'm talking foolish.

>

> Angelique: Oh, I don't think so. I think people should talk about the things they love.

>

> Ralls: Some people don't dare to love.

>

> I got the feeling of Captain Gregg (Rex Harrison) talking to Lucy Muir (Gene Tierney). Both men are bigger than life to the women who are taken by them. They'd love to experience what they have experienced, for they are viewing it with romantic eyes.

 

First of all, I love that whole exchange about sailing and wind and freedom and adventure.... it really appeals to my soul (speaking of sailing, where is Laffite?).

 

But I do like how you have drawn a parallel between Lucy Muir and Angelique, and how they yearn for adventure, but experience it only because of their men, at least in my recollection.

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Yes, you are - it's nice and dark.

 

That's a good sales pitch, Denver. It like the dark. It's so friendly.

 

First of all, I love that whole exchange about sailing and wind and freedom and adventure.... it really appeals to my soul (speaking of sailing, where is Laffite?).

 

I thought you'd enjoy the words on "freedom." But it's really the life of a single person, not one who is committed to another.

 

But I do like how you have drawn a parallel between Lucy Muir and Angelique, and how they yearn for adventure, but experience it only because of their men, at least in my recollection.

 

Yes. You get the sense Angelique would like to live a little, just as Lucy does. Ralls has lived a LOT. Ralls and Gregg are free souls, but that can come at a price. It can also lead to a life of longing, just as Lucy and Angelique long. We always seem to long for whatever it is that we don't have.

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> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}

 

> That's a good sales pitch, Denver. It like the dark. It's so friendly.

 

It's also wonderfully ghost - y. I suspect you will like the way the story is presented. That 's the best part for me.

 

> We always seem to long for whatever it is that we don't have.

 

Are you sure you haven't seen *Wuthering Heights* ?

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I was going to wait for Ro to answer you but I agree with Jackie, that was a wonderful post and it moved me more than the movie did! I will watch those scenes again. To quote butterscotch, "I have a tear!"

 

Thank you, Miss Whosits.

 

Angelique: Hold me up. I wanna look at the sea, again. Your sea.

 

wakeoftheredwitch11.jpg

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Oh.. for pity's sake...

 

That's certainly me!

 

After reading Miss G and mrsl's posts about Reap the Wild Wind.... THAT is the movie I saw a LONG LONG TIME AGO!! ha. And I feel so much better.. ha... because all the way through WOTRW I kept thinking.. gee.. I really don't remember THAT.. and Gee.. how could I have forgotten THAT??? ha. But when I went into the TCM database and read the synopsis of RTWW.. THAT is the movie I am remembering!! ha.

 

:D I can't believe the Duke meets up with not one but two octopi.

 

You do have a point (but it helps me make my own point as well) He does have a "past" and everyone seems to know all about him and what it is that led him to where he ended up (except us)

 

We pretty much pick up where everyone else picks up with Ralls. He was a tough pleasure-seeker who ended up falling for a lass and getting his heart broken. Do we need to know more than this? He's "Rhett Butler."

 

Maybe.. but honestly, I thought Paul Fix was saying "she" and meaning the boat. Fix said something earlier about how The Red Witch was after him. I need to watch it again. Either way though.. YOU are right.. Angelique did get him... and so did the sea.

 

The Red Witch is also a "she," so you are right. I find the end to be very poetic.

 

wakeoftheredwitch2-1.jpg

 

Ha.. you might be right.. it is the "guys" version.. ha. I don't think it would have been as "macho' for John Wayne to have to wait until he was an old man and die in his sleep for them to finally be together. ha.

 

:D

 

True.. she wanted to just love him for who he was when he was with HER and did not hold him to any sort of standard beyond that.. and although I liked his character.. flaws and all, and I wanted to love him.. I also wanted to know MORE about who he was.. inquiring minds wanna know. :-)

 

You're nosey, that's why!

 

You don't love Ralls? The poor guy.

 

"Don't let anything or anybody destroy what we have found. I don't want to be another Angelique."

 

wakeoftheredwitch12.jpg

 

She really was a beautiful woman.. inside and out.. I think her character was meant to be "pure".. especially of heart... and Gail did a great job w/ that aspect of her for sure.

 

You've got it. I do think of Angelique as being "pure." She's the angel, of course. It's basically Angel and the Badman, once again. It's just this ending is much different.

 

And this brings me back to what I wanted to say earlier but forgot.. thanks for the reminder.. he DID seem to have a repentant "moment' where all his past washed away and he wanted to be a new man.. if only to be happy with her.. but alas.. it was not meant to be... (at least for the moment anyway)

 

Yes, exactly. He kicks over the treasure chest of pearls when he knows he's upset her.

 

Ralls lives. He makes every day of living a challenge. Beside him, you're all decadent, dead.

 

wakeoftheredwitch13.jpg

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> "Don't let anything or anybody destroy what we have found. I don't want to be another Angelique."

>

 

Now that for me was the most emotional moment in the whole film. His reaction

when he overhead the girl saying that to Rosen. I felt such anguish and loss.

 

> Ralls lives. He makes every day of living a challenge. Beside him, you're all decadent, dead.

>

 

And I loved that moment! Yes, look at them. Sydnye knows. And such men

were always rare but you sense with his death that whole race of individualists

died. Who would replace him? It would be the rocking chair for Sydnye now,

no more adventures.

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Now that for me was the most emotional moment in the whole film. His reaction

when he overhead the girl saying that to Rosen. I felt such anguish and loss.

 

He turns into "Ethan Edwards," at that moment. He decides to look out for "Marty and Laurie." He doesn't want them to meet the fate he and Angelique met.

 

And I loved that moment! Yes, look at them. Sydnye knows. And such men

were always rare but you sense with his death that whole race of individualists

died. Who would replace him? It would be the rocking chair for Sydnye now,

no more adventures.

 

There goes your "Doniphon." You should have been nicer to him!

 

wakeoftheredwitch14.jpg

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RED WITCH SPOILERS!

 

> He turns into "Ethan Edwards," at that moment. He decides to look out for "Marty and Laurie." He doesn't want them to meet the fate he and Angelique met.

>

 

That's true. That's a good comparison.

 

>

> There goes your "Doniphon." You should have been nicer to him!

>

 

Well...except he died because he was greedy! He just HAD to get those

gold bricks. Tsk! Tsk!

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I can't believe the Duke meets up with not one but two octopi

 

I know.. who'da thunk it?? ha. Pretty slim odds for a guy who made most of his "movie-making" money on the back of a HORSE!! :D It really took me by surprise.. but I think I was still a TEENAGER (or at the very least in my EARLY early 20's) when I saw it.. so I guess I am just getting forgetful in my old age. ha.

 

We pretty much pick up where everyone else picks up with Ralls. He was a tough pleasure-seeker who ended up falling for a lass and getting his heart broken. Do we need to know more than this? He's "Rhett Butler."

 

Hmmmm I don't know if I can totally get that picture in my head for him.. he was his "own" man for sure and can maybe see some comparison to Rhett in that I imagine he did not intend in any way to fall in love with Angelique.. (before he met her, he was likely a "love 'em and leave 'em" kind of guy) But although he might have been a "victim" of love (sort of).. I don't think she really intended to break his heart by going w/ Sydney (out of spite) I think she more or less "fell into it" by circumstances.

 

And I think Ralls blamed himself for losing her more than he blamed her. If he had stuck around (instead of running off) after the "fire" incident.. I think she'd have gotten over the shock of it all and likely would not have been such easy prey for Sydney to marry. (but I might need to rewatch it again. ha. Only a day or so and already the details are getting fuzzy.. ha Did I mention I am getting forgetful in my old age??)

 

I find the end to be very poetic

 

It was at that. Though (here I go again w/ my whining...ha) I wish there maybe had been a bit more "drama" to it. For me it was not very "suspenseful". Maybe I am used to more "nail biting" tension from some of his other action movies.. ha. Anyway.. I think it was very "mystical" in a way with the sunset and the images of them sailing off to sea at the end. Poetic is a good word.

 

Sydney says:

Ralls lives. He makes every day of living a challenge. Beside him, you're all decadent, dead

 

That was a GREAT line... and VERY telling. Up to that point you REALLY dont' know for sure whether he just TOTALLY hates Ralls or not.. but you truly do see the admiration for him (or at least his spirit) in that line.. EVERY man there.. including himself.. gets measured by Ralls.. and comes up lacking. And you really see the "love/hate/love/hate/love" thing going on for him.

 

PS: Miss G.. I loved that moment w/ Rosen and the girl (where Ralls tells Rosen not to lose her) It WAS a very telling and emotional moment.. and I would have liked to have seen MORE of those "emotions" coming out in him a bit... at the risk of whining about it all again.. HA. :-)

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> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}

> Well...except he died because he was greedy! He just HAD to get those

> gold bricks. Tsk! Tsk!

>

> That's because you demanded he do so, Miss Materialistic! A guy just can't win.

 

Oh my goodness! WHERE are you getting this stuff from? You're crazy!!!!

 

You better not watch Wuthering Heights, I'm afraid it's going to sink your

estimation of women even further and I can already hear you calling me a "Cathy".

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You better not watch Wuthering Heights, I'm afraid it's going to sink your

estimation of women even further

 

You've already done that a thousand times over!

 

and I can already hear you calling me a "Cathy".

 

She'll probably be a pussycat compared to you! You slap me the moment I say "hi"!

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WUTHERING SPOILERS!!!

 

I am looking forward to it for sure.. maybe you all can help me finally come to terms w/ WHY I love it so much and yet hate the characters all at the same time, ha.

 

:D I had no idea you felt this way about Wuthering Heights, Ro. I can see why

you'd find them hard to like, especially Cathy. Heathcliffe I think is easier to comprehend,

for he is, in his way, a very "pure" individual. He lives only in his own ideas, or world,

and that world is Catherine and their kingdom is Pennistone Crag (not sure I'm spelling

that right, I don't have the book on hand). Without Catherine, he is lost. Even his quest

for revenge (this movie should have been included in TCM's "REvenge" theme this month!)

is tied to her.

 

Cathy is more problematic, but I have to confess to understanding her conflicts. She's

living a harsh life and she sees "the pretty lights" of the neighboring estate and she's

young enough to put too much emphasis on these delights. Also, Heathcliffe is, as she

says, not making any effort to better himself and make a life for them. He just lives to

be near her and desires nothing else...he has NO ambitions in life. That is why it is

ironic that not love, but thwarted desire and jealousy drives him to finally be ambitious...

just so he can show Cathy what she lost.

 

And oh, my, one of my favorite scenes in all movies is when they open the door at Edgar and Catherine's house to see Heathcliffe standing there in all his new "glory", ha. He is SO much

more impressive than Edgar ever THOUGHT of being. But what a waste, why did evil impulses

have to make him conquer the world instead of love? So I do feel Catherine was justified, a little,

in being frustrated with him. But oh, goodness, the raging, nagging AGONY she felt when he came back, came back as the "king" she always commanded him to be. I love it! My kind of "tortured love" story!!

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