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cteddiesgirl

Having trouble recording to dvd.

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I have no trouble copying films with my dvd recorder. However I did experience problems copying from VHS tapes I made of TCM films previously before I got my dvd machine. After 15 minutes a red flag message warned me I am unable to record and it stopped the process. I fooled the machine by starting over a second time and was able to complete recording but it was frustrating. The VHS tapes must have picked up some signal.

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> {quote:title=Im4movies2 wrote:}{quote}

> I have no trouble copying films with my dvd recorder. However I did experience problems copying from VHS tapes I made of TCM films previously before I got my dvd machine. After 15 minutes a red flag message warned me I am unable to record and it stopped the process. I fooled the machine by starting over a second time and was able to complete recording but it was frustrating. The VHS tapes must have picked up some signal.

 

your story reminds me that Big Brother is watching!! (I see you too Big Brother!!)

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*However I did experience problems copying from VHS tapes I made of TCM films previously before I got my dvd machine. After 15 minutes a red flag message warned me I am unable to record and it stopped the process. I fooled the machine by starting over a second time and was able to complete recording but it was frustrating. The VHS tapes must have picked up some signal.*

I had a similar problem B.V. (Before Veeblefetzer - yes, I was a fan of MAD magazine many years ago) with some, but not all, tapes I'd made from AMC. I suspect it was some signal between the cable company's computer & AMC's, but it set of the DVD recorder's security detection. Starting over didn't work, either. On one tape (and this one is still baffling me) it aborted the DVD recording at completely diffrent spots on three separate attempts.

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*I just did some googling and yes, it is illegal to make copies of films (lots of gray area though and big words) from cable and satellite programming. However, there are laws that say it is not illegal to purchase a copy yet it is illegal to sell one. Makes me wonder how these internet sites selling "rare" classics are still in business. I guess I did get lucky with either DirecTV or my Toshiba and I am willing to buy a "Veeblefetzer" if need be.*

There's really no gray area at all. It's they're property not yours. Period.

Now don't think I'm getting all moralistic. I do copy movies from TCM (& obviously I've availed myself of a copyguard buster). I do purchase from those gray-marketeers you refer to... and most of them survive by trading only in obscure items or titles that have fallen into public domain. Some are bolder. Some have, no doubt, been visited by the FBI. My favorite bootlegger disappeared without a trace a few years back. In fact he had four tables (or whatever) set up at that year's Monster Bash & simply did not show up.

I write about classic films, and there are times I need to have access to a title that is not available legally, so god bless TCM and everything I cribbed from AMC and all the bootleggers.

But let's be very clear regarding the comment earlier about having the "right" to copy films from TCM.

No. You. Don't.

But it is their right to prevent you from making copies.

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Thanks for explaining Harry. When I said gray area, I meant the copying for home viewing etc. TCM's films don't show any kind of disclaimer like this before or after its films, whereas newer films to do tend to have an FBI warning in the end credits. So what exactly is the law of fair use? If it's not legal for me to copy a film from a studio, why was the VHS machine as well as DVD ever sold to consumers?

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I?ve never owned or used a ?Veeblefetzer? (yes, I used to read Mad magazine in the late 1950s/early 1960s) or other device to defeat copy protection.

 

During my selective dubbing project in 2007 I transferred 1,967 home-recorded AMC titles to DVDs. These were titles shown by AMC between 1990 and 2001. During the main portion of the dubbing project seven Panasonic recorders were used, two 2005 DMR-ES30V VHS/DVD combo recorder models, four 2006 DMR-ES35V VHS/DVD combo recorder models, and one 2006 DMR-ES15 DVD recorder model. *There were never any copy protection issues when using these great old workhorse ES series Panasonic recorders.* A total of around 5,200 videotaped titles were transferred to DVD during that ten month long selective dubbing project. Once the dubbing project got up to speed at least four Panasonics were in operation up to eighteen hours a day, six days a week. Sometimes all seven were in operation.

 

There were frequent tracking problems with Sony ?V? T-160 videotapes recorded during 1996 and 1997 so two of our family VCRs, Toshiba models M781 and M745 (from 1996), were used to play Sony ?V? videotapes while the Panasonics recorded the titles.

 

In December 2006, before starting the dubbing project, I attempted a trial recording with a SV2000 VHS/DVD combo recorder purchased at Walmart. That SV2000 recorder found copy protection with a circa 1990 home-recorded AMC title. The same videotape was copied, without any problem, to DVD with a Panasonic recorder. The SV2000 combo recorder was returned to Walmart.

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*If it's not legal for me to copy a film from a studio, why was the VHS machine as well as DVD ever sold to consumers?*

Wow. Is that a question that could prompt a book-length answer.

Ultimately deals were struck, but movie companies... and record companies before them, were initially opposed to tape & then disc recorders. Now I wasn't really aware of what might have been going on in the very early days of Betamax & then Beta to VHS, but I do recall that the recording industry tried -successfully for several years - to prevent a CD recorder from getting to the home market and a similar situation was in play with the movie studios & DVD recorders. In both cases the first machines were ruinously expensive, which kept the general public from buying lots & lots of them. But the marketplace being what it is, cheaper & cheaper models were introduced within a few years. Now I don't think any kind of copyguard was ever added to CDs (and there are those who will aver that the main reason Beta machines "lost" the market war is because they didn't recognized copyguards & the main reason Laser Discs "lost" their market war is because CG could not be added). Antyway, the old slippery slope was in place (I predict in about 5 years there will be BluRay recorders).

Both VHS and DVD recorders also function with cameras, don't forget & that's undoubtedly one reason they finally were made available: home movies.

In any event, they were.

And as for copying off-air, as the court case cited above notes, it's not illegal to do it & it's now widely recognized that many people will time-shift some TV program or event that's broacast when they are not home (or when they're watching something else) for later viewing but there are some legal restrictions about sharing those recordings, as you noted. I suspect that the film geeks who build their own libraries (a gray area) and trade or make other copies for friends (decidedly illegal) are such a small segment of the population that the owners of said films just turn a blind eye.

But I'm under no illusion that my several thousands of DVDRs are "legal" or that I have any "right" to them.

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Harry,

 

I have been googling this topic for the last hour and it is pretty interesting. The confusion lies in what the court chooses to define as "fair use". There are actual some cases still pending regarding fair use and some people arguing to get the definition more clear in the law. I read one opinion where a person said that fair use really should have more emphasis on someone making money off of the work or property of someone else vs. availability. So basically, I should be able to swap DVDs with my friends or record a movie when I want to, but it's when I start receiving money for it, then it's a problem.

 

When you watch an NFL broadcast, there is an actual audio legal disclaimer at least once in each game broadcast about needing the written consent of the NFL to show clips of games, discuss outcomes etc. However, I don't hear one during before or after TCM films, I figure TCM's logo is basically saying "this movie was recorded off of Turner Classic Movies" if I were trying to sell it.

 

I just have to say that the rights I think I have to my DVD-Rs comes from the cost I pay for cable. 90% of them I would have never have seen if not for recording. Time shifting enables me to get my money's worth where cable is concerned. I will say though that I think it would be hard to convince authorities that one wasn't doing illegal activities if there were more than a few recording devices in the house.

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Apparently, I'm now able to record TCM again as of today. I've tried 3 different movies and all seem to record fine (so far).

Hopefully This won't be happening again. But I will be looking into getting a new box to help if it does happen again.

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*I read one opinion where a person said that fair use really should have more emphasis on someone making money off of the work or property of someone else vs. availability. So basically, I should be able to swap DVDs with my friends or record a movie when I want to, but it's when I start receiving money for it, then it's a problem.*

Was this a legal decision or an argument made befor a judge? Or just an opinion put forth?

Unless it was the first, there's no legal force behind it.

If I recall the warnings on DVDs correctly, they state that bringing in an audience (aside from family members, presumably) to watch the film or making copies of it, even if not for profit, is illegal. The same copyrights that apply to DVDs apply to movies shown on TCM or any other broadcast service even if they don't preceed the film with a warning.

 

*When you watch an NFL broadcast, there is an actual audio legal disclaimer at least once in each game broadcast about needing the written consent of the NFL to show clips of games, discuss outcomes etc. However, I don't hear one during before or after TCM films, I figure TCM's logo is basically saying "this movie was recorded off of Turner Classic Movies" if I were trying to sell it.*

You won't find that on Pay-Per-View movies or on HBO or similar services either. But they are copyguarded (at least on my cable company).

You may have noticed in documentaries on actors or directors that some films are represented by stills or clips from the Coming Attractions trailers. This is because whoever made the documentary couldn't clear the right (or afford it) to use actual clips from the films (trailers can't be copyrighted, apparently). Now if a minute or two of a film can't be used without permission, does that tell you how cloudy the whole Fair Use issue is? And do you really think copying an entire film can possibly be considered Fair Use?

 

*I just have to say that the rights I think I have to my DVD-Rs comes from the cost I pay for cable. 90% of them I would have never have seen if not for recording.*

The fees you pay the cable company are for the cable service. Period. They don't grant you any additional rights.

Again, please don't think I'm getting on my high moral horse here. I copy films from TCM. All the time. And I'm not saying you shouldn't or that you're an evil person for doing it. But let's not get confused between what you are _able_ to do and what you have _the right_ to do. You can, without lessons or a license, get behind the wheel of a car and drive it... that doesn't make the act legal. By your reasoning, I should conclude that because I bought a film on VHS that I had a right to have a DVD copy of it. I don't. Nor, just because I paid for the sitting & the first set of prints, do I have the right to have copies made of those Olan Mills portraits of me. Similarly, if I create a painting and sell it to you, unless I also specifically pass the copyright on to you, you have no right to make prints from it; only I do.

 

You can google your little heart out & find any justification you like, but the bottom line is that even though it's highly unlikely (knocks wood) that anyone is going to come after us about it, our DVDR libraries are not entirely legal.

Some years ago Roddy McDowall had a call paid on him by the FBI & they confiscated his very large collection of 35mm film prints. He wasn't making copies & selling them, but he did have what were, shall we say, unauthorized copies. I don't recall that the FBI fined him but they certainly took the films.

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