Jump to content
 
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...

The World of Alfred Hitchcock


MissGoddess
 Share

Recommended Posts

I think I'll argue the point that Marnie wanted Mark. This is not what she consciously wanted - she wanted no one to be close to her. She's set up systems to escape into and hide in. Now, she may sub-consciously need to be caught or need someone's actual affection and understanding, but "want it"? No, I never thought she wanted any of that until the end, walking out in Mark's arm and I think I'd argue that she "needed" Mark more than she'd have consciously acknowledged "wanting". She made a life of taking but barely ever wanting.

 

And I think her drive to avoid personal-relationship entanglements was the basis for her 'systems of escape' and disguises.

 

Tippi is so strong and powerful in this role, and she wields this power also in THE BIRDS where she plays coy and cute at one moment, then unsheaths her rapier tones in another, and yet can be hurt quite honestly in still another moment. Quite excellent performances, in both of these.

 

I've heard her speak of Hitchcock several times. Has anyone heard Kim Novak's thoughts on Hitch?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some very interesting comments about Marnie, by all.

 

But I wanted to tell you, Jackie, that I was really struck by yours. What you wrote was quite strong and I happen to agree with you. When I get some more time, I hope to reply to what you wrote.

 

Do you think Marnie's attempted suicide was metaphorical? Had Mark "taken" something from Marnie, thus killing that part of her off? She didn't jump in the pool, she was forcibly shoved in.

 

There's male violation and female violation to be found. Marnie is a female predator. She's "sleeping around" with men in town after town, taking advantage of them. She's making them feel cheap and used. The shoe is on the other foot. She's the sailor.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

THAT was a very interesting post, Mr. Mark Grimes.

 

I am a runner myself, so maybe that is why I like to watch Marnie fight and hide and take and run.

 

I have to chew on it a bit to answer any of those questions. I like your male perspective - that she has actually been violating the men.... I have to mull it a bit. So Marnie has become what she loathed and feared in order to control her life? Is she taking revenge somehow?..... Payback is....well you know what they say. Fascinating.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

BUTTERSCOTCHGREER writes: ?I really love 'Marnie', but not only for Tippi. I love Sean Connery in this movie and I really pay attention to the way he displays emotion within

his character.?

 

My focus is mostly on Tippi Hedren as Marnie. But this doesn?t mean I give short shrift to Rutland, Mark Rutland. But you know what, the next time I watch the film...I will really focus on him. Connery shows his emotion in a quieter way. He?s not all mushy and demonstrative (was he ever in any of his movies showing love?) I?ll pay close attention to Mark's arc in this movie next time.

 

OLLIE T writes: ?I think I'll argue the point that Marnie wanted Mark. This is not what she consciously wanted - she wanted no one to be close to her. She's set up systems to escape into and hide in. And I think her drive to avoid personal-relationship entanglements was the basis for her 'systems of escape' and disguises.?

 

I totally agree with your post, Ollie. Marnie has set up these coping mechanisms to get through life. But this time...she...gets...caught.

 

?Tippi is so strong and powerful in this role, and she wields this power also in 'THE BIRDS' where she plays coy and cute at one moment, then unsheaths her rapier tones in another, and yet can be hurt quite honestly in still another moment.?

 

What a great description of Tippi?s acting, Old Dear. As for Kim Novak?s thoughts...if any one is privy to that, please cite the link here. Her role as the mysterious and ethereal Madeleine was the apex of her career. Isn?t it wonderful when casting is perfect? Oooooh, if only TCM could get Kim Novak to come out of her ranch and have a sit down with Robert O. a la Private Screenings or at next year?s film festival. I would travel to the ends of the earth for that.

 

FRANKGRIMES writes: ?Marnie is a female predator. She's "sleeping around" with men in town after town, taking advantage of them. She's making them feel cheap and used. The shoe is on the other foot. She's the sailor.?

 

I have never ever thought of it that way. That is an eye-opener. If this is a portent of posts to come, I?m looking forward to reading it, Grimesy. Many men got caught up in Marnie?s web. That goes to show ya, references are sometimes more important than gams. Sometimes. But I hope you do not make a case that blames Marnie and exonerates the men she's come across. You won't go down that path will ya? I don't feel one scintilla of sympathy for Frank Abernathy. "You remember Frank."

 

I don?t believe Marnie?s suicide attempt was metaphorical. I think her psyche was in such shock that the only way for her to escape the pain was to die. Sleeping pills...cut wrists...leaping off brid-ges...jumping onto train tracks...Why does one pick one method over another. Some methods of taking the ?big sleep? are more painful than others.

 

MISSGODDESS writes: ?I think the whole ?force? angle was purely a cinematic device to save time and ramp up the tension. Something had to break through Marnie's well-fortified walls,

if you'll forgive the analogy.?

 

I hear ya, Miss G. That scene does serve as a shock to our system as viewer, as well as a shock to Marnie?s psyche. It?s very aggressive rather than taking a passive route as I suggested above with a love scene at the end to show her breakthrough.

 

?I believe he just chooses these visual devices to externalize emotional traumas and to create the greatest impact of shock on the audience. Because in the end, that's his stock and trade: suspense and thrills.?

 

You make so much sense here. My boy Hitchcock, the originator of Shock and Awe!

 

?That scene even relates to the "femaleness" you wrote about---because Hitch is playing on one of woman's deepest fears with that scene. Disturbing as it is to us even now, imagine how it must have affected audiences back then. As you say, we're in Marnie's P.O.V. and at the same time, by the way he shot the scene, he balances it with Mark's P.O.V. He's really messing with our minds! He was going for a big "shock" to make us (and Marnie) shaken and stirred...?

 

Great!!! Leave others to create and solve the world?s problems...I?m loving this discussion on ?MARNIE.?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

MARNIE SPOILIE

 

THAT was a very interesting post, Mr. Mark Grimes.

 

:P You've sparked me, Little Red Buick.

 

I am a runner myself, so maybe that is why I like to watch Marnie fight and hide and take and run.

 

Ohhhh, I believe Marnie is quite similar to you in a few ways. Actually, there's a lot of Woman found in Marnie. It may be one thing here and another there with some and more with others. And, yes, there's a lot of Man to be found in Mark.

 

But what I believe to be the most critical element to Marnie, the woman, is what I found to be the most similar to you, and woman, in general. I will explain... later.

 

I like your male perspective - that she has actually been violating the men.... I have to mull it a bit. So Marnie has become what she loathed and feared in order to control her life? Is she taking revenge somehow?..... Payback is....well you know what they say. Fascinating.

 

I believe Marnie is very much like her mother... a prostitute. I don't think she enjoys doing what she does, but she does it to support herself and her mother. It's how she survives without a man. But she needs to use men to do it. Once the deed is done, she then does what she really wishes to do.

 

And I feel you are very correct, that Marnie and Mark are very similar. It's just one is male and one is female. They are both predators, but they prey in different ways.

 

marnie1.jpg

 

marnie2.jpg

 

marnie3.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting screen caps. If I may ask, why do you think Hitch chose not to reveal the character's face for so long? What's the significance of only pulling back and revealing who she is until that moment?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If I may ask, why do you think Hitch chose not to reveal the character's face for so long? What's the significance of only pulling back and revealing who she is until that moment?

 

To be honest, I'm not sure. My guess would be that Marnie is deceptive, almost faceless. She doesn't have an identity. Everything she presents to others is a lie. Her life is a lie. The truth petrifies her.

 

It's one heckuva an introduction, I'll say that.

 

What do you (and others) think?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}

> If I may ask, why do you think Hitch chose not to reveal the character's face for so long? What's the significance of only pulling back and revealing who she is until that moment?

>

> To be honest, I'm not sure. My guess would be that Marnie is deceptive, almost faceless. She doesn't have an identity. Everything she presents to others is a lie. Her life is a lie. The truth petrifies her.

>

> It's one heckuva an introduction, I'll say that.

 

Reminds me of that line by Glenn Ford in Gilda, in reply to why he thought

Ballin's "little friend" was a "female": "Because it looks like one thing, and then right

in front of your eyes it becomes another."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Reminds me of that line by Glenn Ford in Gilda, in reply to why he thought

Ballin's "little friend" was a "female": "Because it looks like one thing, and then right

in front of your eyes it becomes another."

 

Boy, ain't that the truth. But I can't say Marnie is misleading men. She's taking advantage of man's weakness, and also his arrogance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

>

> Boy, ain't that the truth. But I can't say Marnie is misleading men. She's taking advantage of man's weakness, and also his arrogance.

 

I agree with that. She really doesn't allow herself to care about what their reactions are, so long as they leave her alone and she can continue stealing without getting caught. You can see this most clearly when Mariette Hartley is gossiping about Mark's private life. Marnie isn't really paying attention, she's only focused on that combination...that's all she cares about. My long ears would be flapping all over the place to hear about Mark. :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

She really doesn't allow herself to care about what their reactions are, so long as they leave her alone and she can continue stealing without getting caught. You can see this most clearly when Mariette Hartley is gossiping about Mark's private life. Marnie isn't really paying attention, she's only focused on that combination...that's all she cares about. My long ears would be flapping all over the place to hear about Mark.

 

Yes, you start off as a "Lil" and end up as a "Marnie," Slappy. Don't worry, you'll get yours later, too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

>

> Yes, you start off as a "Lil" and end up as a "Marnie," Slappy. Don't worry, you'll get yours later, too.

 

I like how Lil stuck Strutt for the check and Mark for the lunch. Plus, free room and board in the Rutland Mansion. Smart girl!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like how Lil stuck Strutt for the check and Mark for the lunch. Plus, free room and board in the Rutland Mansion. Smart girl!

 

Yes, very Miss Goddess-like. :)

 

Lil is the kind of girl who will do anything for Mark (and guys like him). She runs off an entire list of the dubious things she would do for him. And what she wants in return is the free lunch and checking account. So what kind of woman does this make Lil? You won't win Marnie over with free lunches and checks. She knows she will have to give something up to get that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You don't think Lil was genuinely crazy for Mark? I'm not saying she'd have felt the same if he was a gas-pump jockey, but I get the feeling it's more like a school girl infatuation rather than something more mercenary.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

© 2022 Turner Classic Movies Inc. All Rights Reserved Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Cookie Settings
×
×
  • Create New...