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The World of Alfred Hitchcock


MissGoddess
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> {quote:title=scsu1975 wrote:}{quote}

> > {quote:title=FredCDobbs wrote:}{quote}

> > This is a great movie, filled with all sorts of Hitchcockian tricks and techniques. The ending with the runaway carousel is terrific.

>

> I like the movie too, BUT ... what kind of idiot cop would shoot into a crowded carousel? And what kind of amusement park keeps a 90-year-old guy around who is the only person capable of crawling under the carousel? And doesn't he know that when he pulls the lever everyone is gonna go flying?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

LOL

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> I can't believe it's "Aunt Clara" ("Bewitched") whenever I see Marion Lorne in this movie! :D (Actually, she is rather like her character and her son looks and acts like a "warlock").

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

HA! I can hear Bruno saying, "Mother, are you still collecting doorknobs? How very tedious!"

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> Robert Walker?s character is so irritating. So what would anyone do if they met someone like that on a train? Back in the old days, there weren?t as many nuts as there are today, so today I would expect that people would not talk much to strangers on a train. But in the old days, more people were friendly, and there were fewer crazy people wandering around on the loose, so I can understand why the Farley Granger character didn?t take him seriously in the beginning.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think Bruno's wealth (as well of course as his psychosis) and socially prominent upbringing gave him a certain self-confidence to people, more than he actually had. So when he blithely introduces himself to Guy in the club car and stars ordering drinks, he's got the air of someone who can literally afford to make friends easily and spend money at the drop of a hat. And let's face it -- Guy is impressed as well as flattered by that.

 

Edited by: Bronxgirl48 on Apr 19, 2010 6:12 AM

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> I just love Pat Hitchcock in STRANGERS ON A TRAIN. She's the audience, expressing our fears and desires. You know how I feel about Ruth Roman, lol. Just not right for the part of an upper-class woman with dignified Leo G. Carroll as her senator father. Most of the time she goes around with her mouth half-open in an unintentionally funny lustful/sexy way, and this is just when she's sitting around on a couch. The rest of her scenes have her trying to look demure, which is something Ruth Roman couldn't do if her life depended on it.

 

Hahaaaa!! Your comment about Ruth's mouth had me rolling! Yes, I find this character one of the least impressive of all Hitch's female leads. I don't know if it's Ruth or the character, I tend to prefer Ruth as a working class girl and in comedies, I admit. But I think primarily the feeling I get is that Farley Granger was not really in love with her...he was in love with her status. She was such a wide swing from Wifey Number 1, and he couldn't depend on his tennis revenues forever. I feel like this character was actually very similar to Ray Milland's in Dial M For Murder. It's Ray when he met his wifey Grace Kelly. He frankly admits it was her purse that really attracted him more than anything else and I wonder whether Farley would end up plotting his wife number 2's murder eventually, to get the old man's money. :D

 

>

> I'm always amazed by Robert Walker's performance. I mean, where did that COME from?

>

 

He pictured Jennifer Jones whenever he got his hands around some dame's neck?

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?I like the movie too, BUT ... what kind of idiot cop would shoot into a crowded carousel? And what kind of amusement park keeps a 90-year-old guy around who is the only person capable of crawling under the carousel? And doesn't he know that when he pulls the lever everyone is gonna go flying?? - < SCSU1975 >

 

Good points Rich, but can?t you cut Hitch some slack and leave your disbelief at the ticket window? I didn?t grouse when Hitch used an obvious double for Farley Granger in the tennis match in the end. And I?m appalled at your age discrimination. Maybe the 90 year old guy never read about centrifugal force working at a carnival all his life b?cuz he had to take care of his mom, twelve younger siblings and his geek of a dad. Shame on you, man! Give me your phone number. I want to text you.

 

Cinemafan writes: ?Ok, I'm back with my observations on the movie, which I enjoyed very much:

 

* Psychopathic Bruno in his garish bathrobe, still living with and indulged by his parents.?

 

I wonder if in 2010, he?d be in his parents? basement (or his own wing of the house) writing to Message Boards on his computer? Naaaah, I guess he?s a face-to-face kind of guy, narcissist

that he is.

 

* Ruth Roman played such a strong character in this movie - I knew she would be helpful to Farley.?

 

I loved Alec Baldwin referring to her as a ?majestic bruette.? Ruth seemed too strong a woman for fey Farley (who yes, C.F. was very young and handsome).

 

* ?...I loved the formal look of the jackets with shorts and tennis shoes.?

 

I agree, I loved that look.

 

* ?I did have to suspend belief for the parts where Farley didn't call Bruno's bluff. Bruno was a true nut.?

 

Yup. He certainly was.

 

I didn?t watch it in its entirety Saturday night, but without a < ahem > shadow of a doubt, ?Strangers...? is great Hitchcock fare. Before Norman Bates, there was this Mama?s Boy. In fact, on proof reading this post, that?s kind of unfair of me to say...to reduce Bruno to just that. Look at his single-mindedness. Look at the power in his hands. Look at his determination to retrieve that ligh-ter in the sewer...even if he had to tear the flesh off his skin to do it. I didn?t find Bruno an irritant as much as there was something insidiously disturbing about him as with all those not socialized properly into Society. They can be spotted a mile off, so perhaps it is better for them not to come out into the light of day. It almost cost Farley?s character everything to engage with someone like that. Maybe Farley was attracted to Bruno?s attraction to him. The race against time theme is used well by Hitchcock. And for Hitchcock to take the friendly fun-filled cotton-candy, ferris wheel time one would have at a carnival and subvert it, well... That carousel climax was fantastic!

 

?You know how I feel about Ruth Roman, lol. Just not right for the part of an upper-class woman with dignified Leo G. Carroll as her senator father. Most of the time she goes around with her mouth half-open in an unintentionally funny lustful/sexy way, and this is just when she's sitting around on a couch. The rest of her scenes have her trying to look demure, which is something Ruth Roman couldn't do if her life depended on it.? - < Bronxgirl >

 

Well now I?ll have to check out the movie for Ruth after THAT characterization, Bronxie. But I think she?s just too strong a woman for Farley Granger. She could grind him into dust. I wonder why Hitch didn?t go blonde for that role. Barbara Bel Geddes or any other blonde would do. (It's not about her, it's about the relationship between Bruno and Guy. "ROPE").

 

"Hahaaaa!! Your comment about Ruth's mouth had me rolling! Yes, I find this character one of the least impressive of all Hitch's female leads. I don't know if it's Ruth or the character, I tend to prefer Ruth as a working class girl and in comedies, I admit." - < MissGoddess >

 

She's done comedies?? (Well...the things you learn from the TCM Message Board!) For me, Ruthie's persona is sooo strong, I can only see her at the other end of a gun and/or a bottle of Scotch. And the male lead had better be strong and macho. Roman is dark... Daaaark!!!! I wish she had done a good strong dark film noir.

 

?I'm always amazed by Robert Walker's performance. I mean, where did that COME from?? -

< Bronxgirl >

 

Ha, what you said about Jennifer, Miss Goddess was funny. (I do wonder if Jen had seen this movie). Don'cha think he should be mad at Selznick? (Uh-oh...shades of "In A Lonely Place"?) You know Bronxie, every actor needs a good strong director with vision, who can see beyond the screen persona. I gather Hitch saw something a little dark in Robert Walker and used it. I think it is such a tragic shame that Robert Walker had personal demons he could not overcome. The trajec-tory of his career might have followed a different path. Hitchcock opened a door to allow us a glimpse of what might have been.

 

Sad.

 

Edited by: CineMaven on Apr 19, 2010 10:21 AM - Formatting and hunger issues.

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Mave...do you think Farley was really in love with Ruth's character, or was he really seduced by her status/money? Because his wife number one suggests he had a preference for a different type....not so demure, not so well bred. :D

 

I also feel much of Farley's terror comes from thinking of all he was about to lose...that glorious future his prospective father-in-law was proposing...

 

Edited by: MissGoddess on Apr 19, 2010 10:41 AM

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Good question, Miss Goddess. I'd really have to see the movie from beginning-to-end again to give you a good solid answer.

 

There is a definite difference though between the wife you pick on your way up to the top and the wife you have...once you get there.

 

Some of my questioning comes from not seeing Guy with a "wife" at all. But honestly, I'd have to see the movie again.

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vlcsnap-3579858.png

Mommy's all right, daddy's all right, they just seem a little straight

 

 

 

This is pretty much Bob's picture. A well-dressed, well-spoken nutcase does have

to have someone to play off of, and Farley and Ruth will do well enough as the

vanilla twins, though probably a number of actors could have essayed the Ken and

Barbie roles with equal conviction. But it's Bobby who provides the spark. Farley

is bland enough, but you almost want to give Ruth the mirror under the nostrils test.

(Lordy, forgot about the lobster tie. Well, everyone screws up once in a while).

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> {quote:title=CineMaven wrote:}{quote}

> ?I like the movie too, BUT ... what kind of idiot cop would shoot into a crowded carousel? And what kind of amusement park keeps a 90-year-old guy around who is the only person capable of crawling under the carousel? And doesn't he know that when he pulls the lever everyone is gonna go flying?? - < SCSU1975 >

>

> Good points Rich, but can?t you cut Hitch some slack and leave your disbelief at the ticket window? I didn?t grouse when Hitch used an obvious double for Farley Granger in the tennis match in the end. And I?m appalled at your age discrimination. Maybe the 90 year old guy never read about centrifugal force working at a carnival all his life b?cuz he had to take care of his mom, twelve younger siblings and his geek of a dad. Shame on you, man! Give me your phone number. I want to text you.

 

 

I'll give you the old guy, but not the idiot cop. And I won't give you my phone number because this has horror movie written all over it.

 

Another minor point - the drunken professor (John Brown) says he just got back from giving a speech on integration. "In differential calculus, a function is given and the differential is obtained. Y'understand?" This is first semester calculus, folks. No wonder Farley Granger is not impressed.

 

So how about "Judy's" eyebrows in Vertigo? I finally realized whose eyebrows those remind me of - Sylvia Lopez, a stunning dish who played Queen Onfale in Hercules Unchained.

 

Edited by: scsu1975 on Apr 19, 2010 5:17 PM

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>>I like the movie too, BUT ... what kind of idiot cop would shoot into a crowded carousel? And what kind of amusement park keeps a 90-year-old guy around who is the only person capable of crawling under the carousel? And doesn't he know that when he pulls the lever everyone is gonna go flying?

 

I agree, and will go further to state that no carousel is built to achieve the kind of speed that the one in the film achieves. For this one effect, this is why the "dumb" cop is needed - something had to make the carousel spin out of control.

 

Then, with all of that carnage around them once it crashes, the cops and the crowd would be more likely to be rescuing little kiddies and not hanging about Bruno waiting for him to expire.

 

But bring this up to a Hitchcock fan and (as would Sir Alfred) they say "It's only a movie" and I say "That's true. It would have been a great movie otherwise, but with these faults, it's only a movie."

 

There's already a lot of suspension of disbelief required up until the last 15 minutes and Hitchcock pulls it off masterly. I bow in my admiration for Hitch to no one, but everyone has a bad day now and then and in going for the visuals before logic, he had a bad day.

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> {quote:title=clore wrote:}{quote}

> There's already a lot of suspension of disbelief required up until the last 15 minutes and Hitchcock pulls it off masterly. I bow in my admiration for Hitch to no one, but everyone has a bad day now and then and in going for the visuals before logic, he had a bad day.

 

You make some good points, and at the risk of being labeled a Hitchcock apologist, I wonder if audiences back in the day didn't have a greater capacity for suspension of disbelief when it came to these kinds of things.

 

When I'm watching a Hitchcock movie, I don't care if something defies all common sense and/or the laws of physics. I just want a good show. But, at the same time, I respect the opinions of all those who feel otherwise. ;)

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>>You make some good points, and at the risk of being labeled a Hitchcock apologist, I wonder if audiences back in the day didn't have a greater capacity for suspension of disbelief when it came to these kinds of things.

 

It's funny - I saw the film on TV about 40 years ago and it didn't strike me at the time. I saw it a few years later on the big screen, but by that time I was a father so that may have colored my thinking.

 

But I didn't take my son to see it, he perhaps would have never gotten on a carousel after that. :) As my sister was involved in the preservation of them for 25 years, he's been on a number of them.

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Queen Onfale...man oh man, you got it. You win. You absolutely pegged it. See, I thought she was frightening b'cuz she was the sexy evil queen. NOW I know what it was.

 

Calculus, schmalculus...that won't help me go shoe shopping at Macy's with Bronxie.

 

"I'll give you the old guy, but not the idiot cop. And I won't give you my phone number because this has horror movie written all over it."

 

I dunno man. Shooting into a crowd...that's pretty much Standard Operating Procedure for a NYC cop...

 

No phone number? Horror movie??! How-- Aww man. Okay, let's face it...you're clairvoyant too.

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> {quote:title=CineMaven wrote:}{quote}

> Queen Onfale...man oh man, you got it. You win. You absolutely pegged it. See, I thought she was frightening b'cuz she was the sexy evil queen. NOW I know what it was.

 

Their dietary requirements are a bit different, but the eyebrows are quite similar.

 

slvia_leg.jpgVertigoMadeleineJudy.jpg

 

Edited by: scsu1975 on Apr 19, 2010 6:16 PM

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I haven't seen *The Farmer's Wife*, but have enjoyed Hitchcock's films from the late '20s such as *The Lodger* and *Blackmail* very much. Your vivid description of this early movie makes me want to find a copy.

 

As to *Frenzy*, beginning with *Psycho*, I have a hard time enjoying any of the films he made post-1960. I've seen them all, (even the snoozefest Topaze), but his movies in that more liberal era are a good argument for censorship stimulating creativity in filmmakers. I'm sure that many people find something to enjoy in these movies, but I must be blind and tone deaf when it comes to these films from his last days. It is so sad to see his movies lose their wit, symmetry, and beauty as his storytelling abilities diminished with age and became blunter with new freedoms rather than more challenging.

 

Of course, every movie can't be as satisfying as the films that he made in the '40s and '50s, but it would have been great if he might have had a last movie near the end of his life, like Huston, Kurosawa or Lean, that demonstrated his skill at least one last time, rather than damaged his reputation.

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It might be a little morbid to say, but in a way it's too bad Walker went on to make

My Son John, which could be said to be his last film. Strangers on a Train

is a much better swan song. What a huge difference between the fresh-faced,

tongue-tied boys he played in the mid 1940's in movies like The Clock and

Since You Went Away and Bruno. It's a shame he passed away at such a

young age.

 

That lobster tie!! Maybe it's something Mommy bought and he felt obliged to wear,

or perhaps he thought his Bruno tiepin could deflect people's attention from the

dancing crustaceans. Wrong! Everything goes together so well until you get to the

neck wear. Having a bad tie day. At least it might give Freudians and PETA something

to mull over. A rat is a snake is a lobster. :)

 

 

147720105_855c5354fb.jpg

 

It's bacckkk. The hipster doofus lobster shirt, retro chic. OMG.

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> {quote:title=sineaste wrote:}{quote}

> It might be a little morbid to say, but in a way it's too bad Walker went on to make My Son John, which could be said to be his last film. Strangers on a Train is a much better swan song. What a huge difference between the fresh-faced, tongue-tied boys he played in the mid 1940's in movies like The Clock and Since You Went Away and Bruno. It's a shame he passed away at such a young age.

 

Yes, I agree with you on both counts. The Hitch movie would have been a swan song that just about any self-respecting actor would have envied - and who could blame them.

 

> That lobster tie!! Maybe it's something Mommy bought and he felt obliged to wear, or perhaps he thought his Bruno tiepin could deflect people's attention from the dancing crustaceans. Wrong! Everything goes together so well until you get to the neck wear. Having a bad tie day. At least it might give Freudians and PETA something to mull over. A rat is a snake is a lobster. :)

 

Actually, I think the tiepin did quite an effective job of deflecting _my_ attention away from those dancing crustaceans. I honestly don't remember having noticed the tie before you pointed it out. Well, they say you learn something every day... ;)

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> {quote:title=clore wrote:}{quote}

> It's funny - I saw the film on TV about 40 years ago and it didn't strike me at the time. I saw it a few years later on the big screen, but by that time I was a father so that may have colored my thinking.

>

> But I didn't take my son to see it, he perhaps would have never gotten on a carousel after that. :) As my sister was involved in the preservation of them for 25 years, he's been on a number of them.

 

I think those kinds of factors can definitely affect our perception and/or enjoyment of many movies, especially those by Hitch, since his better movies do such a masterful job of manipulating our emotions (but how we react emotionally to stuff can change over the years).

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