MissGoddess Posted June 17, 2010 Author Share Posted June 17, 2010 SPOILERS > All great points. > > "She was too quick to leap to a conclusion that her husband was a murderer. It seemed so childish." > > That is interesting. When we see Lina for the first time, she is reading a book on child psychology. It seems to me that her parents (especially her father) controlled her so much that she wasn't completely mature in thinking. To a degree, she can be connected to Norman Bates in Psycho. Hi Konway, I didn't even catch that book title! That is really interesting. Maybe she was reading the chapter on adolescent rebellion when she met Johnny. Books definitely come into play in the film quite a bit. I find much of her behavior about money to be just as bad, in a different way, as Johnny's. She's very severe about the proper way to dispose of income and about earning it, of course. She doesn't seem generous. Johnny, wastrel he is, is not selfish about money when he has it in hand. He buys gifts for everyone he loves and I find that so adorable. He even remember the little maid (though she's rather pretty and I'd be careful if I was Lina). It's somewhat unusual that Hitch puts more focus on the father, rather than the mother's influence. I can't really think of too many movies where "Dad" is that central. Foreign Correspondent I guess is the most obvious, and the father really is the villain, but such a pleasant one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackFavell Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 Oh man, I really love Herbert Marshall in Foreign Correspondent. He's so lovely, except for this wee little problem..... He seems like a precursor to Harry Lime for me anyway. I think this is one of Marshall's best acting jobs. I wish he'd done more Hitch. How can you go wrong with Joel McCrea, George Sanders and Herbert Marshall all in the same film. sigh. Sorry.... back to Suspicion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissGoddess Posted June 17, 2010 Author Share Posted June 17, 2010 Marshall has to be the most pleasant "villain" in all of movies. In fact, if we were not told he was the bad guy, we'd never know it since he's never really shown doing anything bad (that I remember). Hitch's villains seem to have the best voices...Marshall and James Mason being two of the best in all of film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konway87 Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 SPOILERS I agree about Herbert Marshall's performance in Foreign Correspondent (1940). I also think Otto Kruger has a great voice in Saboteur (1942). I think father figures are very important in 1940s to early 1950s of Hitchcock films. But we don't seem to notice it. We see Herbert Marshall (Foreign Correspondent), General McLaidlaw (Suspicion), Mr. Kentley (Rope), Alastair Sim (Stage Fright), and Leo G. Carroll (Strangers on a Train). With Suspicion's current ending, the audience gets the freedom to look into every important detail and pick up the right conclusion for the film. The film has a cheerful feel compared to many other later Hitchcock films. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traceyk65 Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 > {quote:title=JackFavell wrote:}{quote} > > {quote:title=traceyk65 wrote:}{quote} > > > I agree with all the above, Jack. And I love The Trouble with Harry especially. I don't understand why people don't get it. It's hilarious. > > I love it. But I have a dark sense of humor.... Me too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konway87 Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 SPOILERS Hitchcock's favorite line is from The Trouble with Harry - "What seems to be the trouble, Captain?" Edited by: konway87 on Jun 18, 2010 2:52 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissGoddess Posted June 20, 2010 Author Share Posted June 20, 2010 Hi Konway! > I agree about Herbert Marshall's performance in Foreign Correspondent (1940). I also think Otto Kruger has a great voice in Saboteur (1942). I think father figures are very important in 1940s to early 1950s of Hitchcock films. But we don't seem to notice it. We see Herbert Marshall (Foreign Correspondent), General McLaidlaw (Suspicion), Mr. Kentley (Rope), Alastair Sim (Stage Fright), and Leo G. Carroll (Strangers on a Train). > Thank you for clearing that up. It's enlightening that Hitch was really rather balanced, then, in his depictions of parents. I think my point of view was somewhat colored by his TV show, where I get the feeling moms have the worst of it. > With Suspicion's current ending, the audience gets the freedom to look into every important detail and pick up the right conclusion for the film. The film has a cheerful feel compared to many other later Hitchcock films. SPOILER! I agree, at least for the first 2/3 of the film. However, for the first time, I noticed a shift in tone in this film. I noticed it does, very subtly, go from cheerful and lighthearted...with a good deal of humor...to more sinister, more shadowy. This holds up what you say about our being taken along with Lina and her viewpoint. As she becomes more suspicious, the film get heavier. There is even a moment when she is walking up to the door of their home and a shadow, from the clouds, drifts over the set. I am really impressed at how Hitch depicts Cary Grant's character. Once it becomes clear Lina suspects him of being more than just a spendthrift, whenever something is said or revealed that could be incriminatory or a test of his character, the framing and camera on Grant becomes searching, but it is NOT leading us to believe without a "shadow of a doubt" that he's guilty. It's so carefully done, that I can't honestly say we're being fed only one outcome. It's like all along, Hitch is feeding us evidence to support both conclusions about Johnny's character. Maybe this was because he wasn't sure if he'd really be able to push through the ending where Johnny is found out a murderer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fxreyman Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 I think that the one common thread that is not really looked at very often is the keen sense that Hitchcock has used through out many of his films. Attention to detail. You see this component in almost every one of his films. Take for instance the mcguffin he used in Notorious. The uranium in the bottles downstairs in the cellar. Did many film goers at the time of this movie's release even know about uranium? Sure many, many people knew about the atomic bombs used to end WWII. But did they know what uranium looked like? I don't think so. And yet, in this film it is made to become a substance that is very much in the dark, very much an unknown thing. So when Cary Grant and Ingrid Bergman are in the cellar looking around for the stuff and they find it, the stuff looks very black, and granular. I am not sure what uranium looks like but if I had been in attendance during the initial run of this film, I would have believed that uranium was a dark substance. In the same movie much has been said about the keys to the cellar. The long and great tracking shot Hitchcock used from the top of the stairs all the way down and across the room to Ingrid's hand that held the keys was a great attention to detail shot. Not many people would have filmed it that way. Then there is the fine attention to detail in Rear Window. Where we get be voyeurs looking into everyone else's apartments through Jimmy Stewart's eyes. North By Northwest and the mcguffin with the film. I could go on and one, but I think it is the attention to detail that has kept me thinking that Hitchcock's films were really all about attention to detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konway87 Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 SPOILERS "It's so carefully done, that I can't honestly say we're being fed only one outcome. It's like all along, Hitch is feeding us evidence to support both conclusions about Johnny's character. " Great Points. "There is even a moment when she is walking up to the door of their home and a shadow, from the clouds, drifts over the set." I also want to point one interesting thing. After the shadow completely covers the surrounding, she enters the home. She hears the whistle of Johnnie in a little sinisterish way. When she finds out that Beaky is alive, she goes to hug Johnnie. The moment Lina moves to hug Johnnie, the light replaces the darkness and becomes a completely happy surrounding. So we can make a degree of conclusion that there is a certain degree of Lina's imagnination in visual aspects. And the moment she feels happy, the surrounding becomes joyful. And when she feels fear. The surrounding changes according to the way her mind travels. And the audience seems to go along with it. fxreyman, I totally agree with you about Hitchcock's attention to detail. I also liked the examples you wrote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konway87 Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 Here are the interviews (four parts) with Hitchcock on youtube. The first 2 parts of the interview are with Ingrid Bergman's daughter Pia Lindstrom. In the first 2 parts, Hitchcock talk about several things including method acting, Charles Laughton and Jamaica Inn. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBMR0M4w7C0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BumwFR19cc In the third and fourth part, William Everson asks about early films like The Man Who Knew too Much (1934), Number 17, and others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronxgirl48 Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 I finally saw PENELOPE for the first time last night. Wow, I kept thinking of MARNIE throughout the whole movie! Edited by: Bronxgirl48 on Jun 29, 2010 10:40 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissGoddess Posted June 30, 2010 Author Share Posted June 30, 2010 Now THAT is an interesting comparison. My favorite Hitchcock (nearly) and my favorite "fluffy" Natalie Wood comedy. Pray, go on, Doctor Bronxie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronxgirl48 Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 I might be mistaken, but I thought I remembered that Grimes mentioned PENELOPE as a favorite film of his in this thread, and made the connection with MARNIE. He's right! (gack) Penelope is married to a handsome hard-nosed Scotsman. She and Marnie hide their identities and feelings, are compulsive thieves, have beautiful wardrobes, lol, and are ultimately seeking love and validation from the parental (Mrs. Edgar) and parental substitute (husband) figures in their lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissGoddess Posted June 30, 2010 Author Share Posted June 30, 2010 > {quote:title=Bronxgirl48 wrote:}{quote} > I might be mistaken, but I thought I remembered that Grimes mentioned PENELOPE as a favorite film of his in this thread, and made the connection with MARNIE. He's right! (gack) Penelope is married to a handsome hard-nosed Scotsman. She and Marnie > hide their identities and feelings, are compulsive thieves, have beautiful wardrobes, lol, and are ultimately seeking love and validation from the parental (Mrs. Edgar) and parental substitute (husband) figures in their lives. Wow, that's really interesting! I'm not sure if Grimes has seen Penelope or not, but I will be keeping your comparison in mind the next time I watch it. With Penelope, I kept wanting her to dump the pompous banker for "Columbo", lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronxgirl48 Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 > {quote:title=MissGoddess wrote:}{quote} > > {quote:title=Bronxgirl48 wrote:}{quote} > > I might be mistaken, but I thought I remembered that Grimes mentioned PENELOPE as a favorite film of his in this thread, and made the connection with MARNIE. He's right! (gack) Penelope is married to a handsome hard-nosed Scotsman. She and Marnie > > hide their identities and feelings, are compulsive thieves, have beautiful wardrobes, lol, and are ultimately seeking love and validation from the parental (Mrs. Edgar) and parental substitute (husband) figures in their lives. > > Wow, that's really interesting! Also, the John(ny) Williams Penelope "theme" is ostensibly perky, but with darker undertones. I thought it added considerably to the skewered nature of Natalie's character. As I was watching the hold-up at the bank, the way the teller is filmed as she's screaming, seemed very Hitchcockian to me. And Edith Evanson (ROPE & MARNIE) shows up later on! Could PENELOPE actually be an homage to the Master?? > > I'm not sure if Grimes has seen Penelope or not, but I will be keeping your comparison in mind the next time I watch it. I could swear (and with Grimes it's easy) he mentioned PENELOPE during your MARNIE discussion in this thread. > > With Penelope, I kept wanting her to dump the pompous banker for "Columbo", lol. I did too! I've always thought Peter was a cutie-pie. Edited by: Bronxgirl48 on Jun 30, 2010 12:02 AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankGrimes Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 I could swear (and with Grimes it's easy) he mentioned PENELOPE during your MARNIE discussion in this thread. I've never seen it, consarnit! But you comparing it to Marnie makes me want to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronxgirl48 Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 Grimes!!! Whaaa? You haven't seen it? Oh, my stars, I need a brain transplant! And here I was giving YOU the credit for my insights, lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankGrimes Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 Grimes!!! Whaaa? You haven't seen it? Oh, my stars, I need a brain transplant! And here I was giving YOU the credit for my insights, lol! You can relax now. You're not losing your mind that much. You really would have needed a brain transplant if you agreed with me. And leave the door open! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronxgirl48 Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 Here's a video I just posted for MissGoddess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronxgirl48 Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 PENELOPE is on YouTube -- I just found this. Here is Part 1 to whet your MARNIE comparison appetite: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqEkXmX--yA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankGrimes Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 Yeah, I can see the comparison to Marnie. I can also see the comparison to Miss G. How many outfits does that gal have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronxgirl48 Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 Let us discuss why beautiful women are a threat to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronxgirl48 Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 Lila Kedrova (TORN CURTAIN) is in PENELOPE. Natalie also goes to an art museum. The large-size manager almost looks like a double for Hitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackFavell Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 Lila was the best thing about Torn Curtain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissGoddess Posted June 30, 2010 Author Share Posted June 30, 2010 Wow, you know I couldn't see where you were getting the comparisons from but now I think I do. I remember when Penelope is holding the knife (on her wedding day) and how she looks at it? Kind of reminded me of Sylvia Sydney in *Sabotage*. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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