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I would hope that what you state as 'true' is anything but for most fans of the arts. If one is going to say someone is 'great' shouldn't it be based on their actual work? Now granted what you say is often how some fans view artists but to me that is the view of the young immature. But yes, some stars are labeled 'great' when their acutal work doesn't back it up; Monore comes to mind as well as James Dean (but of course there is a valid reason for his lack of work), but most of the stars listed as popular by CFU members like Grant, Davis, Bogie, Stanwyck, etc... have the work to back it up (well expect for maybe Flynn who is listed in the top 5 but I assume only because he was so damm handsome).

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_From Here to Eternity_ was a six-hour 1979 television mini-series, followed by a thirteen episode 1980 television series.



The mini-series was a remake of the 1953 film From Here to Eternity and based on the 1951 novel of the same name. All three conclude with the December 7, 1941 attack on Pearl Harbor.



The story details the men and families of G Company, 24th Infantry Division, with a main sub-plot being Sgt. Warden?s (William Devane) ongoing affair with Karen Holmes (Natalie Wood), the wife of his commanding officer.




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i went back and read my post. I actually phrased it as a question; I didn't state it. Second, is there a universal agreement what are the "great films"?? Is there a list??? Are we going by the Oscars? The Box Office? Critics' lists? Third, thanks for calling me "young" and "immature."

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>mr6666 wrote:

> So, does anyone know anything about the 'missing scenes' cut from *Inside Daisy Clover* (some 21 minutes)


This is for some, a very sensitive issue to discuss over why certain scenes or 21 minutes of the film were cut. First off, British writer and film director, Gavin Lambert adapted his novel for the screen. He had already written several other screenplays, most notable ?Sons and Lovers,? and ?The Roman Spring of Mrs. Stone.? What I find so odd about Lambert is that many historians and books, haven?t given him much coverage. The reason might be due to Lambert having been, for his time in Hollywood, an openly gay member of the film community. During his lifetime, he was somewhat flamboyant to the point of boasting about his sexuality that for the times was rather bold, if not, dangerous. The lifestyle of Lambert led to all sorts of speculation on who the characters in his novel of ?Inside Daisy Clover? really represent. So, it was no surprise that by the time a film version of his novel was produced, the issue of homosexuality lingered over the production of film. Aside from a musical sequence that was cut, there were references made to Robert Redford?s character of the movie star being a closeted gay actor. At first, there was a direct scene revealing this issue. It?s now said that Redford, fearing his career might be in jeopardy, asked that the gay aspects of his character be toned down. The studio decided on agreeing with Redford, after all, there was still an enormous resistance to this issue on a vast amount of social activity. So, scenes that Lambert had written in and were in fact shot making referrals to homosexuality as well as several other rather sexual orientated scenes were removed. Despite these changes and concerns, on top of the film not having been so well received, Natalie and Lambert became lifelong friends. So much so, that before his death in 2005, he wrote a beautiful biography about her life and times that was highly praised, as well as approved by Natalie?s family.

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What I always found interesting was that, "Charlie's Angels" was originally conceived by Robert Wagner and Natalie Wood.



Robert Wagner reluctantly accepted 45% ownership of the show as payment for a prior contract he had with Aaron Spelling. He said that he felt the show was the worst idea he'd ever heard!



Also see:



Robert Wagner - Wagner Sues For Charlie's Angels Cash


09 July 2003




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I agree that you stated 'it' as a question and I tried to answer 'it' as a question. Thus I didn't call you immatureyoung but only those that believe 'it' (it being that fame is a measure of greatness). Since you don't, it doesn't apply to you, but sorry for any misunderstanding.


Of course there isn't any 'universal agreement' and this is what I enjoy about CFU and other sites like this; It gives people a forum to discuss what is 'great' or not and to see if there is any 'universal agreement' (in a general sense). The discussion about Casablanca and Citizen Kane were along those lines. Casablanca is cleary one of the most popular movies of all time but Citizen Kane is listed as one of the greatest movies of all time while many find Casablanca to be just a nice formula picture. Thus many different perspectives.


The agreement I have seen from most here from most CFU members is that being popular isn't a measure of greatness.

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according to George Jacobs, Natalies mom would bring her to Sinatra's house for "Acting Lessons" when she was a kid & this affair lasted for years.


'My Life With Frank Sinatra'

After Decades Of Silence, George Jacobs Writes About His Legendary Boss

By Rome Neal .


(CBS/The Early Show)

. "Mr. S: My Life with Frank Sinatra" (HarperEntertainment)


Having the time to catch up on your reading is just one of the many joys of the season. And if you need help picking a page turner, look no further.

.(CBS) From the early '50s to late '60s, the best guy a person could know may have been Frank Sinatra, according to George Jacobs.


After almost 35 years of silence, Jacobs writes of the parties, the people, and the places he saw as personal valet and confidant to Sinatra in "Mr. S: My Life with Frank Sinatra," which he wrote with William Stadiem.


In it, Jacobs provides a look at a womanizing Sinatra who pursued some of the most famous women of Hollywood - Marilyn Monroe, Ava Gardner and actress Grace Kelly who was to become Princess Grace of Monaco.


Jacobs tells The Early Show co-anchor Harry Smith his relationship with Sinatra was more like that of a father and son.

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> {quote:title=Big_Bopper wrote:}{quote}

> according to George Jacobs, Natalies mom would bring her to Sinatra's house for "Acting Lessons" when she was a kid & this affair lasted for years.



So are you saying he had an affair with Natalie from the time she was a kid? Or he had a long time affair with her mother? Color me confused (and slightly disgusted if the former is the case.)

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> helenbaby wrote:

> So are you saying he had an affair with Natalie from the time she was a kid? Or he had a long time affair with her mother? Color me confused (and slightly disgusted if the former is the case.)


The rumor or hearsay of Frank having had an affair with young Natalie has never had any concrete basis of fact. Frank had known the starlet during the time she was a teenager, both of them working at Warner Brothers. While there was speculation that Frank may have had interest in Natalie, it?s very, very doubtful that any romantic liaison ever occurred between the two. Frank always like any pretty girl, be it young or within his own age range. In Natalie?s case, it was more of a father figure. If there is any truth to any deep affair Natalie had with an older man, it was with director Nicolas Ray! She was by the time of age sixteen, rather passionate and liked getting lots of attention. Natalie learned early on, what could give her career a lot of clout. She watched other stars, such as Liz Taylor and Marilyn Monroe as they went about creating hype and garnishing their careers under the spotlight. Natalie?s long association with Frank is based on the whole movie star syndrome and garnering up as much publicity as possible. He was throughout her life, a close and trusted friend. So much so, Frank attended her funeral and was the main pallbearer.

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What has amazed me over the years about Natalie, concerns the various opinions, some positive and others negative, on whether or not she was a good actress. Natalie seems to have always been placed on that thin line between movie star hype, as opposed to being considered a serious actress. What I don?t understand is why many film buffs don?t count her wonderful and inspiring work as a child star, before she embarked on her adult career. She was certainly one of the finest child-actresses of her generation, creating loads of respect from both young and older fans. By the time she was a teenager, the transition she was undergoing was probably difficult and warranted lots of hope she could smoothly become a serious, adult actress. As she blossomed into a beautiful, seasoned young woman, the problem that evolved for Natalie during 1954 to 1956 became more and more evident that her studio (Warner Brothers) wanted to create a film goddess and compete with other aspiring newcomers in this glamorous field. Truth was that Natalie was never comfortable being a glamorous figure to the Hollywood community, as well as the fans alike. She was a ?down-home girl,? who really had no childhood to speak of and therefore had to rely a lot on the comfort and protection of family and close friends. She lived in a shell all her young life that by the time she became a major adult actress, coping with the pressures brought by being a movie star became at times rather strenuous. Juggling between being a major star and attempting to gain professional respect would in time be an overbearing task. The story of Natalie?s career is typical of those who don?t have a bit of luck in the area of time and circumstance of gaining enough serious acceptance to who they are and what they have achieved. By the time of the late 1950s and her first marriage to another high-profile movie star Robert Wanger, it seemed that her once proud and respected work as a child-actress was smothered by what is often referred to as a brisk attempt to have Natalie make the same exciting transition to adulthood as Liz Taylor had done. The comparisons made between Liz and Natalie seemed logical to comprehend, but Natalie would never have the overall sophisticated appeal of Liz Taylor that was translated into becoming stylized and fashionable.


Natalie?s first excursion into trying to receive dramatic respect as a serious, adult actress came in 1958, with her starring role in ?Marjorie Morningstar.? The film easily displayed Natalie?s measure as being able to handle a sensitive and demanding dramatic role. The film was not a critical or box-office success. Some Hollywood insiders blame her career slipping away from its serious, dramatic stability, due to her first marriage to actor Robert Wagner. While Natalie?s career was on the up-swing, Wagner?s was falling behind. It was said that tension between the two of them grew hard and fast as Natalie became so popular. The marriage was to some nothing more than a PR ploy, by either Wagner?s representatives or even those of Natalie?s; in her case it was probably her family. The young celebrated married movie star couple finally came together professionally in what should have been a highly successful block-buster pairing, appearing in the 1960 drama ?All The Young Cannibals.? This was in a technical sense, nothing more than MGM trying to create the same hype of interest that Paul Newman and his wife, actress Joanne Woodward were stirring up during the late 1950s. Surprisingly, it was Wagner who gained the critical praise and some felt really stole the motion picture or was worth the time to see ?All The Young Cannibals.? Natalie?s performance was adequate, but failed to generate interest due to what numerous critics always sighted as her overbearing sort of sensitive nature on screen, that seemed a ?hold-over? from her days as a child actress. The talk about Natalie was her appearing as if she never really grew up as did Liz Taylor. This issue that was often written about and exposed bothered Natalie for the rest of her life.


Despite the lack of dramatic praise for Natalie during this early time of her marriage to Wagner, her star movie status remained as strong as ever. The following year came with what is probably her greatest triumph, the drama ?Splendor in The Grass.? It was with this motion picture, most of the critics finally came around to saying something positively upbeat about Natalie?s acting abilities. This was on all counts a rather huge surprise, because along with it, came her role in the block-buster musical film version of ?West Side Story.? Both films were major success and while this totally changed the direction of her career, her marriage was on the outs. Suddenly and without any warning, Natalie was front page news, first with a highly publicized lover affair with her co-star Warren Beatty of ?Splendor in The Grass? and then all the excitement brought on by the success of ?West Side Story.? Her role in ?Splendor? brought her a second ?Oscar? nomination that she surely could have won; Natalie was considered the ?front runner? to win the award! However, fate geared things very differently and the award was instead handed over to Sofia Loren; the first time for any actress in a foreign film! Natalie never got over this loss that would hound her until she died. She would in the proceeding years, blame her affair with Beatty and the tabloid imagery of her personal life. This is why she began to stay out of the public eye. The worst of it came later on, when the Harvard Lampoon initiated the annual ?Natalie Wood Award? for worst performance by an actress. This was to me, very unfair and unheard of to a girl who had worked so long and hard to establish a decent career. Luckily, Natalie scored another ?Oscar? nod with her work in ?Love with The Proper Stranger,? but again she missed out, despite keeping herself low-keyed and trying to achieve a serious looking status. She was by the late 1960s, extremely popular, regardless of her lack of dramatic acceptance. Two films in particular, ?This Property is Condemned? and ?Inside Daisy Clover? should have been considered an exceptional attempt on Natalie?s part, having gone towards a highly dramatic fashion. But, not even the Motion Picture Academy and the critics found her recent work worthy enough to be acceptable and her career began to slow down by the time the 1970s rolled in. The only thing that kept her in the spotlight to some extent was the occasional box-office popularity that came her way. After remarrying Robert Wagner in 1972, Natalie wouldn?t work as much and never again would there ever be anything so highly dramatic or exceptional to her career.


Looking back after all these years, I believe she was truly talented and had a lot to offer. Certainly, there wasn?t an actress around at the time that could be compared to her. Natalie was pretty much unlike any of her contemporaries, becoming a one of a kind. Her motion picture status or within and annuals of Hollywood is very important and worthy of study. While her personal life has in some way overshadowed her film career, she remains as interesting now as she was so many years ago. We will probably never know if she was ever so satisfied with herself and career. It?s now so sad to think how she passed away, alone, in the dark, falling prey to a cold and murky watery end. Still, she was something of a success, be it a movie star, if not, an actress. She was truly competent enough to remain a top and popular star; having received scores of respectful praise from those who knew her and worked with her. There are some movie stars that might not be so dramatically acceptable or successful, but have a beautiful and wonderful grace of character that places them in a special area of admiration. Being a success in the movies is sometimes measured by how you make those people sitting out there in a darken theater feel. Natalie loved her profession to some extent that in the end it was all she knew or could do with her life. She once was asked what she might have done with her life, had it not turned out as it did. She replied: I?d be a simple housewife or maybe a school teacher.

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> {quote:title=annelovestcm wrote:}{quote}

> I wish they had cut more than that

> what a terrible movie and a waste of Natalie Wood


I swear, I tried on both occasions it has been screened in the past month....I just can't get into this movie or take it seriously. I am not convinced that I am in the 30s when I see this film.


Post-teen years....did Natalie Wood ever perform in a role without her signature black eyeliner?

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