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If you could ask Katharine Hepburn a question....


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> {quote:title=LuckyDan wrote:}{quote}

> I heard her say in the Cavett interview that she took her showers cold. Why? And exactly how cold is the water? Are we talking room temperature? Seems maso to me.

 

 

I remember reading somewhere that it was a habit she'd learned from her father who felt cold baths and showers were healthy and character-building.

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Thanks, Tracey and Cujas. Now that yall mention it, I do recall her father's influence and her habit of testing the shower before taking a new residence.

 

In summer, a cold shower can be refreshing, but first thing on a cold winter morning, I dunno. If there were no alternative, I suppose I'd have to, but...

 

Maybe her dad was thinking that denying oneself a luxury, or a convenience, helped build character. Could be.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have to assume that the thread is about THE question Hepburn would be asked; What gender did she like best, if any? Of course that question leads to other related questions like 'why didn't she get married' or 'how active was her sex life with Tracy'? Yea, that is a very nosey type of question but I'm interested only to understand how it relates to her appearing to be alone for so many decades. i.e. was their love so romantic they didn't need to have sex? OR if they did have an active sex life, how did Tracy justify this (i.e. he wouldn't get a divorce because he was Catholic but he would have an active sex life with another women????).

 

I'm not juding them from a moral POV but something in that relationship and how Kate lived just doesn't make sense to me.

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Kate was married once.

Tracy had "dated" lots of other women, while still married, before he met Kate. (ie Loretta Young)

And Kate had "dated" lots of other men before.(ie Howard Hughes)

 

Their situation makes sense in a different time and place, where cultural judgments were far different than today.

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What do you feel 'their situation' was? That they had an on-going and long term sexual relationship? If yes, I don't agree that this 'make sense' based on the reasons Tracy gave for not getting a divorce. His reasons were NOT because of cutural judgements but because he was Catholic. Many stars got divorced and it didn't hurt them, but cheating while married did. In other words they wouldn't of been subject to negative cutural judgements if Tracy just divorced and married Kate. Bogie and many, many others did and they were welcomed (e.g. Bogie Bacal here a 'hit' team).

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Well, I can tell you that Spence had dinner every Sunday with his wife and children.

Being Catholic, I can tell you that his staying married was part of his cultural conditioning.

His son was deaf and his wife devoted herself to a foundation to educate deaf children.

Tracy was very proud of her and financed the whole thing.

 

After his death, Tracy's daughter and Kate became very close.

 

Edited by: cujas on Jul 3, 2010 4:15 PM

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I don't want to look like I'm picking on Tracy, but I have to admit I am if indeed he wanted to have it both ways and did so. Yes, I know about his deaf son and those Sunday dinners but if he also had Kate as his lover than I just cannot respect that. Be faithful to your marriage or get out.

 

But back to Katharine Hepburn: She was so much women that I don't understand why she would settle for a lover that did have dinner every Sunday with his family. That is the basic question I would want to ask her; Why did you settle for less than a full relationship. Why didn't you just move on and find a man that was willing to be there for you ALL the time?

 

Edited by: jamesjazzguitar on Jul 3, 2010 7:36 PM

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>But back to Katharine Hepburn: She was so much women that I don't understand why she would settle for a lover that did have dinner every Sunday with his family. That is the basic question I would want to ask her; Why did you settle for less than a full relationship. Why didn't you just move on and find a man that was willing to be there for you ALL the time?<

 

Cuz she was in love with Spencer Tracy and chose to enjoy what she could have and not worry about the rest. She never seemed interested in marriage, but she seemed very much in love with him.

 

Here she reads a letter she had written to him many years after his death.

 

 

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So the answer is 'because she was in love'. Well that answer is kind of weak and doesn't really answer the question of why if she was so much in love, she would accept less than a full loving relationship. As you hint at one doesn't have to get married to have a loving relationship but the bottom line was that Kate had less than a 'full' relationship (marriage or not), with Tracy.

 

I'm a romantic and I do see the point you are making, but I still feel she settled for less and in some ways that just isn't something one would expect from Kate. But hey, live and love are complex.

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You are assuming what she had with Tracy was somehow "less than a full and loving relationship."

 

If one doesn't value marriage, they are not likely to pursue it as means of fulfillment of either sexual or emotional needs, and would not consider remaining single and spending time with a married partner as settling for less.

 

Reading her thoughts on marriage, it is exactly what I would expect from Kate.

 

"I don't believe in marriage. It's bloody impractical. 'To love, honor, and obey.' If it weren't, you wouldn't have to sign a contract."

 

"If you want to sacrifice the admiration of many men for the criticism of one, go ahead, get married." (also attributed to her mother)

 

"Only when a woman decides not to have children, can a woman live like a man. That's what I've done."

 

"I often wonder whether men and women really suit each other. Perhaps they should live next door and just visit now and then."

 

http://marriage.about.com/cs/quotes/a/khepburn.htm

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I think it is a fact, not an assumption, that her relationship with Tracy wasn't 'full' based on any logical definition of 'full'. e.g. they couldn't travel together, openly be romantic, never spend a Sunday together because Tracy was committed to being with his family, etc....

 

As I said before my point about a full relationship has nothing to do with marriage. Spending time with a married partner is settling for less, but her quotes make the case that 'settling for less' was what she desired. Kate was living Now Voyager and like the Davis character willing to accept the moon instead of the stars.

 

And this takes us back to the 'if you could ask Kate a question'; Was her point of view how she really felt or was it a result of the situation she found herself in? In other words her POV wasn't really how she felt but spin.

 

Also, if Tracy was single (i.e. got a divorce) would Kate still have wanted the same type of 'part-time' relationship with him that they had all those years? (again, I'm not talking about marriage).

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Well I don't know if it's logical (logic is overrated, anyway, especially in matters of the heart) but she has been quoted describing their 27 years together as "absolute bliss." Sounds pretty full to me, even if public displays of affection were off limits.

 

Consider, too, that when they met in 1941, Tracy was separated from his wife. He wasn't divorced but then he wasnt exactly having to sneak out to see Kate, either. He didn't allow photos of the two of them to be taken, but he took a residence near hers.

 

I fear I am approaching expert status on all things Kate, which I find odd considering I always doubted very much whether we would have gotten along. I'm starting to feel quite sympathetic toward her actually. Tracy's gruffness is well-known, and she evidently was not always spared.

 

Would things have been different if he had divorced? I doubt it, though we might have some pics of them together, aside from the fictional home movie from Adam's Rib, charming footage though it is.

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Ok, I understand you wish to believe their relationship was full. We can agree to disagree there.

 

This topic is 'if you could ask Kate a question' and I assumed it means that Kate would have to answer any questions put to her truthfully.

 

My point is that I'm not sure she is being honest when she says things like 'absolute bliss" and a lot of other things related to their relationship and her general feelings about love and men. Again was that line of talk just spin because of the situation she was in? i.e. a defensive response?

 

I'm also feeling sympathetic towards her because MAYBE she didn't make the right choices and thus didn't lead as full a live as she could of.

 

PS: With regards to logic and matter of the heart; Save that line for Tracy. He clearly used logic instead of following his heart. Thus I have mixed feelings about him on this topic. Was he the devoted family man or just a selfish cad? I say there is some truth in both cases there.

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I know she's always said that she thought it a good thing that she never had kids, because she didn't think she'd have the patience. (The first time he told me no, I'd probably kill him was how she put it, I think)

But given how close she was with her family I wonder how she really felt about it.

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