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rover27

The 'colorization' of TCM

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*"You seem to know, so tell us, why does TCM not show any Charlie Chan movies? I we used to see them on the old AMC channel all the time, and TCM is selling the entire set. So why can we buy them from TCM, but we can?t see them ON TCM? Are we supposed to buy all the sets before they will show them to us on TCM?"* - FredCDobbs

 

A selection of Charlie Chan films was originally on the June 2010 schedule. They were removed the line-up before June arrived. In the subsequent discussion hypothesizing about the reasons for the removal (which centered mostly on the desire to sell Box Sets rather than show the films on TCM), 'tcmprogrammr' posted an explanation.

 

"The reason for the change is that we originally thought Warner Brothers had the television rights to the films (as well as the home video rights), but they don't."

http://forums.tcm.com/jive/tcm/click.jspa?searchID=318054&messageID=8384686

 

TCM wanted to show the films and I bet it still would like to present them. The snag is negotiating the television rights with appropriate owner. But they aren't being withheld from the channel for financial gain or out of spite. At least not by the folks at TCM.

 

Kyle In Hollywood

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When I am logged in I cant read the board & when I hit reply it takes me to the front page - not back to the thread I'm replying to. Then I hit Post Message & nothing happens...

 

I have recordings of The Men & Blood on The Sun off AMC in the 90's & I have never seen them on TCM. Considering two of the greatest stars of Hollywood: Cagney & Brando its odd to say the least. I have subscribed on & off to TCM for 10 years. I just want to say one more thing. Warner Bros. can show any movie ever made on tv if they want to. So to those who say they cant show this or that due to rights - Warner Bros. Make the rules thru which others must abide.

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Thank you for providing that link Kyle. I wanted to mention this info in my original reply to FredCDobbs but I couldn't find the link. I guess I may now fall into the category of a TCM cheerleader because I am not buying that TCM wouldn't air a film or franchise as popular and well known as the Chan films if they could. It has to be something out of their control. Tcmprogrammr proved that this is in fact the case.

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Big_Bopper -

 

*Blood On The Sun* was seen on TCM in August 2005 during "Summer Under The Stars".

http://www.tcm.com/thismonth/article/?cid=88572

 

*The Men* was included in a two-evening Marlon Brando event built around the debut of the TCM Original Documentary *Brando* in May 2007.

http://www.tcm.com/thismonth/article/?cid=159195

 

Kyle In Hollywood

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> {quote:title=hlywdkjk wrote:}{quote}

> TCM wanted to show the films and I bet it still would like to present them. The snag is negotiating the television rights with appropriate owner. But they aren't being withheld from the channel for financial gain or out of spite. At least not by the folks at TCM.

>

> Kyle In Hollywood

 

They aired three or four of them a couple of years ago, during the ?Asian Salute?. Didn?t they have to negotiate the rights and rent them then? All of a sudden, after being shown on different television channels for the past 60 years, suddenly TCM doesn?t know how to rent them, even though they rented several of them just two years ago?

 

Come on, man.

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I bet AMC showed The Men & Blood on The Sun more in one day than TCM has shown them in its entire existence. It just proves my point which I was told I am wrong, BUT you see Gidget is more important to TCM & its viewers so much so we need to see it 2 times a month. Let me get this straight so there is no misunderstanding. Warner Bros. can show any movie ever made on tv if it wants to. Warner Bros. made the rules by which others must abide. If they choose to suppress The Men & Blood on the Sun they are fully capable of doing so since there is only one old movie channel.

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> {quote:title=Big_Bopper wrote:}{quote}

> I bet AMC showed The Men & Blood on The Sun more in one day than TCM has shown them in its entire existence. *It just proves my point which I was told I am wrong, BUT* you see Gidget is more important to TCM & its viewers so much so we need to see it 2 times a month. Let me get this straight so there is no misunderstanding. Warner Bros. can show any movie ever made on tv if it wants to. *Warner Bros. made the rules by which others must abide. If they choose to suppress The Men & Blood on the Sun they are fully capable of doing so since there is only one old movie channel*.

 

The only point I can see is that when you are wrong (which seems to be always) you haven't the good graces to admit it and that you should change your screenname to "Yeah, BUT..." (Funny, I remember you once saying, "Maybe I'm wrong & if I'm wrong I'll admit it." However, never have I seen you admit you were wrong about anything though many people have proven you are so many times.)

 

And you are wrong here - again - because Warner Bros. had nothing to with The Men or Blood on the Sun. Blood on the Sun was produced by Cagney Productions, Inc. and released through United Artists. It is a film that has fallen into the public domain, which is why there are so many bad prints of it out there. The Men was also released by United Artists, but I think Republic got the rights to home video.

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Some of the Monogram Chans are in public domain. I forget which titles TCM did air, but I'm certain they were MonoChans.

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*Warner Bros. can show any movie ever made on tv if it wants to. Warner Bros. made the rules by which others must abide. If they choose to suppress The Men & Blood on the Sun they are fully capable of doing so since there is only one old movie channel.*

 

WBros isn't suppressing *The Men* or *Blood on the Sun*. Both titles are owned by United Artists, not WBros.

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All this waxing poetic over the old AMC days, fails to mention how they never showed films in their proper aspect ratios (except sometimes at 2:00 am) and pretty much made me never want to see a Fred Astaire/Ginger Rogers film, ever again, due to their endless scheduling of them. Their library may have been different, and I watched the channel, plenty; but it never came close to the vast amount of titles and quality presentations currently being offered by TCM.

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> {quote:title=johnm_001 wrote:}{quote}

> All this waxing poetic over the old AMC days, fails to mention how they never showed films in their proper aspect ratios (except sometimes at 2:00 am) and pretty much made me never want to see a Fred Astaire/Ginger Rogers film, ever again, due to their endless scheduling of them. Their library may have been different, and I watched the channel, plenty; but it never came close to the vast amount of titles and quality presentations currently being offered by TCM.

 

Good point johnm. I just mentioned something similar about aspect ratios and AMC in the Godfather thread. I think it's even worse to air a film and pan and scan it then to never air it at all. Up until recently (last year or so - before AMC started airing infomercials in the morning) I used to catch an older film, usually from Fox's library - I hated when they showed a wide screen film. I remember their print of Pillow Talk had everyone looking 10 feet tall - even little Thelma Ritter.

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You're correct, TCM showed THE SCARLET CLUE and THE JADE MASK, which were Monogram Chan films, during the Asian festival. I recorded them at that time.

 

Raquelle at the blog Out of the Past (http://outofthepastcfb.blogspot.com/2010/06/charlie-chan-teaches-us-about-classic.html) did an excellent post this summer explaining all the complicated rights behind various Charlie Chan films. TCM can show any Monogram Chan films but has to negotiate with Fox for others. Check out the post for more history.

 

Edited by: MovieFanLaura on Sep 8, 2010 4:07 PM

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TCM also aired "Charlie Chan in Honolulu" (1938), and "Charlie Chan at the Circus" (1936), and both are Fox films.

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> {quote:title=MovieFanLaura wrote:}{quote}

> You're correct, TCM showed THE SCARLET CLUE and THE JADE MASK, which were Monogram Chan films, during the Asian festival. I recorded them at that time.

>

> Raquelle at the blog Out of the Past (http://outofthepastcfb.blogspot.com/2010/06/charlie-chan-teaches-us-about-classic.html) did an excellent post this summer explaining all the complicated rights behind various Charlie Chan films. TCM can show any Monogram Chan films but has to negotiate with Fox for others. Check out the post for more history.

>

> Edited by: MovieFanLaura on Sep 8, 2010 4:07 PM

 

Laura, that was a great blog and entry but it only made my head spin a bit more!

 

If they have control over the Monogram Chan's (which is what I thought) why can't TCM air more of those? I know they have to negotiate with their parent company to air films just like other studios, but who is beating down any doors for Monogram films? That's what is confusing to me, because the earlier link to the TCMProgrammer suggested that they had to pull those 4 Monogram films that are included on the latest box set because while they had the rights to release them, they did not have the rights to air them? Say what?? It would be nice to have a more in-depth explanation of that, but it's unlikely we'll ever get it.

 

Eventually I'll pony up for the TCM Spotlight with those 4 Monogram Chan films (3 of Toler and 1 of Winters). What would be awesome is if TCM would box together the remainder (the earlier ones, most of them showing up on the way over-priced and now rare "Chanthology"), and the rest of the Winters Chan films. I hope they will, and I hope they'll show at least some of these on the air too!

 

As for Fox, yes, TCM did air a couple of them during the "Asian Images On Film" series a couple years ago, but as with all the other studios that they have to negotiate with, we know how that goes. It costs. More of us need to clamor for them and more consistently and perhaps TCM will consider ponying up to lease and air more of them. I'd love to see more on the air, though I will eventually get all of the Fox sets (have 2 so far). But that won't solve the Monogram situation for me though, I hope they'll address that by airing and releasing again! :)

 

Chan fans unite! :)

 

Oh and while I'm at it---more Monogram films in general please! :)

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*TCM also aired "Charlie Chan in Honolulu" (1938), and "Charlie Chan at the Circus" (1936), and both are Fox films.*

 

And they likely rented/leased those films to TCM because it came with a discussion between Robert O and an Asian historian.

 

Fox has been leery of broadcasting these films since about ten years ago when they promoted the films on FMC as coming attractions and got blind-sided by various protest groups who called the films racist.

 

Fox pulled the films and since then has been leery of leasing them for broadcast unless they air with some sort of historic context.

 

As for the tv rights of the Monogram Chans, I wonder if they reverted back to the previous owner before Warners? Perhaps the answer lies in who owned the Monogram library before Warners?

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>>Fox has been leery of broadcasting these films since about ten years ago when they promoted the films on FMC as coming attractions and got blind-sided by various protest groups who called the films racist.

 

Not being picky, but just for the sake of accuracy, that was in July of 2003. Fox was promoting the festival featuring restored prints for several months. Not a word of protest from anywhere.

 

The plan was to air two or three titles each Monday during the summer, I believe they got three weeks deep when the fest was canceled.

 

Curious thing - Rupert Murdoch owns Fox as well as the New York Post. There was an item in rival New York Daily News that claimed that Murdoch's wife had something to do with the cancellation:

 

*Chan is missing*

 

Did Rupert Murdoch's Chinese-born wife kill a much-hyped Charlie Chan movie retrospective on the Aussie-American's Fox Movie Channel?

 

The summer festival, dubbed "Charlie Chan's Mystery Tour," would have highlighted the '30s and '40s murder mysteries featuring the Honolulu detective, whom some find offensive.

 

Some avowedly "inside" sources say Wendy Deng, Murdoch's third wife (who just bore the 72-year-old mogul a second daughter), was behind the decision earlier this month to cut the festival. But a rep for Fox Movie Channel denied her involvement, saying the cancellation came after protests by community groups, which said "that they believed Charlie Chan perpetuated a negative racial stereotype."

 

But old-movie buffs - including film critic Leonard Maltin, who pleads for a cancellation of the cancellation on his Web site - beg to differ. According to Variety, the network received more than 3,000 E-mails and 500 letters protesting the decision in the week following its announcement.

 

On Friday, the frame blurbing the festival on the Fox Movie Channel Web site was taken down and replaced by a pop-up window inviting people to discuss "the progress made in our modern, multicultural society."

 

Whatever, Wendy.

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/gossip/2003/07/20/2003-07-20_kim_who__combs_takes_to_the_.html

 

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*Not being picky, but just for the sake of accuracy, that was in July of 2003*

 

Thanks for providing the year, I apologize for being off by three years. I'll be more careful the next time I use the word "almost".

 

Edited by: lzcutter for closure

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*Ok, if it takes some Chinaman raving about how bad white people are, in an introduction to these movies, so be it*

 

I don't remember Dr. Peter X. Feng "raving". I do remember him talking about the history of "yellowface" and I do remember him talking about how many in the Asian communities saw Chan as a hero regardless of the actor playing the detective.

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> {quote:title=lzcutter wrote:}{quote}

> As for the tv rights of the Monogram Chans, I wonder if they reverted back to the previous owner before Warners? Perhaps the answer lies in who owned the Monogram library before Warners?

 

I dont know about the TV rights, lz, but to confuse things even more it was MGM/UA who released the Chanthology box set of Monogram films.

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?American Charlie Chan films were also shown in China, to full houses. Warner Oland's visit to China was reported extensively in Chinese newspapers, with Oland being referred to respectfully as "Mr. Chan."[29] The Chan films were the most popular American films in 1930s China; "one of the reasons for this acceptance was this was the first time Chinese audiences saw a positive Chinese character in an American film, a sharp departure from the sinister Oriental stereotypes in earlier movies like Thief of Baghdad and Welcome Danger, which incited riots that shut down the Shanghai theater showing it."?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Chan#Chinese-language_adaptations

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