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FILM NOIR -Love it, Hate it, or not sure?


misswonderly3
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My generalized take on it:

 

*Are all FILM NOIR MOVIES either Gangster Flicks or Crime Dramas?*

 

No. But because of the general mood and theme of film noir -- outsider being trapped (or thinking he or she is trapped) by forces beyond his or her control -- a crime or plotting of a crime or escaping from a crime is extremely common.

 

Film noir is transgeneric. A Western can be a noir. A Musical can be a noir. On and on. It's the mood and theme (assisted by some combination of other stylistic elements such as camera angles, lighting, etc.) that matters. But I'm the flexible sort of film noir fan.

 

*does a FILM NOIR have to be a Black and White movie?*

 

No. But, again, given the mood and theme, black & white often helps. Many of the finest film noirs during what is generally considered the Classic Period of Film Noir (1940 or so through 1958 or early '60s) were relatively low budget productions. That combined with the mood and theme results in film noir being typically thought of as black and white movies.

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> {quote:title=ChiO wrote:}{quote}

> My generalized take on it:

>

> *Are all FILM NOIR MOVIES either Gangster Flicks or Crime Dramas?*

>

> No. But because of the general mood and theme of film noir -- outsider being trapped (or thinking he or she is trapped) by forces beyond his or her control -- a crime or plotting of a crime or escaping from a crime is extremely common.

>

> Film noir is transgeneric. A Western can be a noir. A Musical can be a noir. On and on. It's the mood and theme (assisted by some combination of other stylistic elements such as camera angles, lighting, etc.) that matters. But I'm the flexible sort of film noir fan.

>

> *does a FILM NOIR have to be a Black and White movie?*

>

> No. But, again, given the mood and theme, black & white often helps. Many of the finest film noirs during what is generally considered the Classic Period of Film Noir (1940 or so through 1958 or early '60s) were relatively low budget productions. That combined with the mood and theme results in film noir being typically thought of as black and white movies.

 

So, is Film Noir a sub category of films of each main Genre? Also, based on your definition, could the original WOLF MAN be considered a Horror film noir?

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> {quote:title=finance wrote:}{quote}

> Can you give me an example of a musical noir?

 

When you say musical noir do you mean a noir with musical numbers in it, or one that has musical stars in leads that perform more than one song, or do you mean one with a music/backstage broadway storyline...or any of those combined?

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> {quote:title=MyFavoriteFilms wrote:}{quote}

> LADY OF BURLESQUE with Barbara Stanwyck...there are stage numbers, but she gets embroiled in a murder mystery.

 

I haven't seen this film in it's entirety nor have I seen it in years but I think that may be a pretty decent example - unless someone wants to argue what is considered noir and what isn't. PARTY GIRL has 2 dance numbers I believe.

 

What's interesting is that music plays quite a larger role in noir than we think....there are many scenes in noir films that take places in anything from a local hole in the wall to a lavish night club where we get to hear a verse or two of a live musical number, usually something mellow....and in some films, the star sings. Jane Russell sings in THE LAS VEGAS STORY (and MACAO I believe), Claire Trevor sings in KEY LARGO (LOL!!!!), Lauren Bacall sings in TO HAVE AND HAVE NOT. etc....

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It's been ages since I saw Lady of Burlesque. It's very entertaining, a mix of old time

show biz and a murder mystery. Didn't Ava sing one song in The Killers at the party

where she first met Swede? And Rita did that killer rendition of Put the Blame on Mame

in Gilda. I think Veronica Lake may have sung in one of her films with Alan Ladd. Then

there was that hip jazz joint where poor Frank Bigelow was slipped that fatal glass of

liquor. That type of place seems to turn up in a fair number of noirs. Wasn't there one in

Force of Evil too?

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FredC: I remember back in the 60?s when a man named Max Rafferty had a big position in the California school system. He was constantly pushing the need for students to read and study the classics of literature and other uplifting fare. He felt this would make for a more enlightened and better society. A great many people agreed with him.

 

If a steady diet of positive reading is good than can we say the reverse is also true? If kids whose minds and consciences are still developing are exposed to violence and the ideas that there are no moral values and anything goes if it gets you what you want we end up having to defend ourselves from their actions. The case of Maria Goretti, the Italian girl killed because she refused a neighbor?s advances, is one. Her killer admitted he tried to act out what he saw in a steady diet of porn. We are what we put in our bodies and minds.

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Yes, that number really stood out. Gilda is an okay noir, but not one of my

favorites. Instead of being out gallivanting, he should have stayed in the hotel

and waited for a call from Paula. Bad boy Bigelow. Tom Neal played a pianist

with a singer fiancee before he set out on that real bummer of a cross country

trip in Detour.

 

Make sure the kiddies don't come across a copy of Crime and Punishment.

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I LOVE noirs for the most part, usually the older Warner ones, and many of the Fox ones...

the 1950 Warner Noirs are lacking to me, they just dont grab me like older ones..maybe its the actors, story or something but movies like Murder My Sweet & Lady of the Lake are so much better than anything in the 5th Warner Noir Box Set

I liked most of the Fox Ones, Fallen Angel , I wake up screaming and Nightmare Alley stand out...

I also enjoyed the few Universal ones that came out ..

I think a lot of what I like/dislike might be how much the studio puts its efforts into the film, the budget, the feel of it, the scenery let alone the acting..

Raw Deal is a great one if youre looking for a Noir to watch :)

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I remember Max Rafferty. He was a conservative and a great educator. He helped make California schools some of the best in the nation, in the top 5. When he lost his bid for re-election as the top educator of the public school system in California and replaced by a man without Rafferty's moral and ethical code, w/o his strident belief in reading the classics, writing and arithmetic, with the new guys dumbing down of our educational system, then California schools became crappy and have stayed that way ever since. We have never recovered. I think we are now 48th out of 50 states in inadequacy, drop out rate and plain stupidity. Max Rafferty was a good man and didn't deserve to be voted out.

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