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Say no to hate !


Guest Forster, Paul

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Guest Forster, Paul

Do we really need a whole month of anti-German hate propaganda movies?Do the idiots at TCM realize that WWII has been over for almost 60 years?These hate filled movies have the same effect when shown today as they did 60 years ago.Apparently TCM has no problem with the idea of cashing in on the anti-German hate fest that is still alive and well 60 years after the end of the war.What a bunch of SOBs!

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Guest Lyndsey

I don't think they are showing "anti-German hate propaganda movies", as you say. They are simply showing the aspects of Hollywood cinema and how they portrayed and took on the Nazis--Another key word "nazis", not Germans in general. I think most people are intelligent enough to realize that not ALL Germans--both today and during WWI (and before)--are Nazis, or "evil", etc. These beliefs were sometimes believed by the "enemies" during wartime struggles to promote patriotism (i.e.: Americans allowing propaganda about the Germans in WWI, the Japanese in WWII, and on and on, to follow through to the public). I am positive TCM isn't showing these films to inflict emotional pain into anyone by shoving "propoganda" to their viewer's faces. As I said, they are simply presenting films produced during and after the war, and concerning the opposing force. Take THE GREAT DICTATOR, which TCM is showing tonight, for instance. It is not necessarily a "propaganda" film. It is a political satire about fascism in GENERAL, it is not specifically targeting the German population or it's governmental circumstances during WWII, nor is it exploiting them or anyone else in particular. I think your statement that the people at TCM are a bunch of idiots is quite uncalled for, and I think most people on these boards will agree with me when I say this. Insulting TCM by attempting intimidation with facts of wartime hate is quite childlike. We all know that the war ended 57 years ago: we are not ignorant individuals. And I am presuming (I don't know them, so I have to presume) that the programmers at TCM are also not an ignorant bunch. They are obviously not trying to "cash-in" on this long over hatred. You have a right to your opinion, so I will not deny you that, but be assured that none of what you are accusing anyone of is correct. "What a bunch of SOBs!": maybe you should retract your statement and investigate further before you make rude comments about people you do not even know.

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Guest lettuce, hedda

Duh, what planet is the gentleman from who claims TCM is showing hate films and the TCM people are SOBs? If one were to adopt your stance, we'd not see any Mafia movies because they denigrate Italians. Or Southern movies because they make people there look like idiots. You're advocating censorship which is a word that sends my blood pressure boiling. Perhaps you should try the most politically correct cable network in the world: The Cartoon Network. This children's network is doing enough censorship of innocent animated delights from the past without any encouragement from viewers like you. The Cartoon Network works furiously day and night deleting any dark-skinned figures from old cartoons and is even seriously considering dropping completley any cartoon that shows black-furred creatures, like skunks and beavers and racoons because they're--black. And the Cartoon Network is keeping under lock and key any animated matter that shows the Japanese in a mocking way that appeared during World War II. I mean, they really were the enemy and all but gee whiz, we just can't see those cartoons today because it might make mush brained viewers think badly of them. Which is why I am relieved TCM hasn't gotten the Politically Correct virus. Let's pray it doesn't. Bring on the German movies of the 40s, and the Italian movies and all kinds of movies. Just don't censor them.

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Guest Cat, Maggie the

Lyndsey, you're right; there is an important distinction between "German" and "Nazi," and I'm going to give the public the benefit of the doubt vis-a-vis historical education. I think context is of utmost importance in these matters, however, which is the source of my disagreement with both Paul and hedda. I think it's very timely to look at previous propaganda, seeing as how we've got a war on and we don't want to make the same kind of mistakes, painting all the members of a certain nationality or ethnic group with the same ugly brush. Like the man said, "Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it." I'd like it if people who watch these movies turned a hairy eyeball on depictions of Muslims or people from the Middle East in current films. The mishigas with those med students at Shoney's proves we need to be vigilant and check our heads. And judging from the presentation of "Hispanics in Hollywood" last month, I think it's safe to say the whole racism/stereotype matter will be handled very delicately. Don't forget that a lot of the personnel in Hollywood in the late '30s and '40s were Germans (or German residents) who had fled Hitler: Wilder, Deitrich, Lorre, Sig Ruman, Lubitsch, Conrad Veidt, SZ Sakall. Ruman and Lubitsch portrayed Nazis as buffoons; Veidt played 'em as low-down and dirty as possible (which was a lot, since he was such a brilliant actor). And Dietrich, daughter of a Prussian military officer, told the Führer to p*ss off and spent a great deal of time entertaining the Allied troops. I'm confident that between Unka Bobby's introductions and the mini-doc/interview interstitials, that the distinction between "German" and "Nazi" will be made quite clear.

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Guest Cat, Maggie the

First, the facts: The Cartoon Network has not locked those cartoons away forever. In fact, AOL/TM sibling TCM is showing several Nazi-related cartoons as part of this month's programming. Second, I think the decision to keep those cartoons off The Cartoon Network is a sound one. I'm not for whitewashing history, but that kind of blatant racism has no place on a network whose viewership is largely made up of children. The younger ones don't have the discernment to understand that these images are stereotypes, that they're inaccurate, and that it's just plain wrong to make such generalizations about a large, diverse group of people. Not to mention the hurt they could cause to children who are black, or German, or Japanese. And let's not forget that The Cartoon Network is a business that has to sell ads, and if they had such racist buffoonery in regular rotation, they'd be hard-put to sell to anybody. No company that wants to surviveeven if its CEO is secretly a friggin' **** memberwould buy ads there. Don't get me wrong; I think these caricatures are instructive for adults and kids who are older. They remind us of where we were, how far our society has progressed. And I have no problem shrugging off antiquated ideas in the classics on TCMthe shuffling Pullman porters, Kitty Foyle. But not for the little ones. They're going to run into racism eventually, of course, but there's no excuse for feeding it to them as entertainment.

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Guest Lyndsey

Thank-you to both Mongo and Maggie the cat, I appreciate it! It is very true that we need to take a good look at the previous propaganda because of the current status of our nation, and the rest of the world. I failed to mention that in my first post, so thanks for reminding me of that important detail, Maggie. It is also true that Cartoon Network had absolute good reason to censor the animation which is today considered racist--it is not appropriate for young children to see at such an age. As you said, everyone will at some point be faced with prejudice, but despite this, everyone has to acknowledge the true value of childhood, and the effects of a delicate subject such as this on youngsters. If we allow images of racism to be shown at such an early age, we are basically robbing children of their innocent youth--we are esentially preventing them from being children. Although, I have a little bit of contradictory beliefs--I also don't believe in censopship as a WHOLE, i.e.: preventing EVERYONE from seeing certain images, as if we were a nation under a dictatorship, or something, as I think most people do not. Okay, I am SERIOUSLY writing too much and beginning to go slighty off subject, so I'm going to be quiet for now...

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Guest Lyndsey

By the way, since I mentioned THE GREAT DICTATOR earlier today, did anyone catch it??? I did, and personally, I loved it. It was extremely funny and delicate in some scenes (the ending is an example of this). I'd have to declare that one of my favorite parts of film is the scene with the globe balloon-like-thingy. How graceful that was--Chaplin bouncing around the globe and balancing it on the tips of his fingers so gently, as if the man-made material were the earth itself. Such a simple, uncomplicated section of the movie, yet so lovely and meaningful. The ending was another fave of mine; the speech by the Jewish barber posing as the Dictator was emotional and downright admirable. If you didn't see it tonight, I encourage everyone to view it at sometime or another.

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Guest Forster, Paul

I'm not buying it. You say that people can distinguish between "Nazi" and "German",the sad fact is that many people can't.They have been bombarded with so much anti-German propaganda for so long that they consider the terms "Nazi" and "German" to be the same thing.Showing a whole month of old propaganda movies isn't going to help the situation.

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Guest Lyndsey

True, SOME people cannot distinguish these two separate peoples. But as I said, MOST people CAN. I assessed the subject of propaganda, and whether or not TCM is showing this in my first post. Whether or not you "buy it" is not my problem. What I stated about TCM is the truth, despite your anger concerning these issues. In an earlier post, Maggie the Cat mentioned why it is imprtant to show these films. I suggest you review them.

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Guest Cat, Maggie the

Um, Paul, honey, please tell me how this Nazi-German conflation and prejudice has hurt you. Have you been turned down for an apartment, a job? People who are ignorant and bigoted enough to conflate Nazis and present-day Germans are, well, ignorant and bigoted. Not a whole lot you can do about them, except show them how wrong they are. I don't think showing 60-year-old movies is going to convince others to believe the same thing. Anybody that dumb is probably more interested in movies where they blow sh*t up, anyway. I'm not aware of any prevailing prejudice against Germans. But then, I live in the South. haha. Contrary to popular beliefor prejudice: We love everybodymy friends are black, white, Puerto Rican, everybody just a-freakin', gay, straight, bi besides. If you think about it, there are a lot of portrayals on TCM that would never pass muster today. Our society was very different in the '30s and '40s, and most black actors were relegated to roles as servants. And even though last month was devoted to the contributions of Hispanics, they kicked it off with a slew of Lupe Velez "Mexican Spitfire" movies. As far as I'm concerned, that woman, God love her, was the Latina equivalent of Stepin Fetchit. And a lot of movies about Nazis weren't propaganda, in the sense of demonizing, dehumanizing The Enemy. Movies like Confessions of a Nazi Spy and The Mortal Storm were as just-the-facts-Ma'am, documentary-like as a Hollywood film can get. Spy in particular, was based on articles by an FBI agent who actually infiltrated a Nazi spy ring in the US in the '30s. The Warner Bros. office in Berlin had been sacked by Nazis, and an employee murdered. Still, Harry Warner was dragged before Congress for war-mongering and propagandizing. haha. And did you know that people were dragged before the House Unamerican Activities Committee for premature anti-Nazism? After the war? I don't really understand why TCM's programming upsets you; why you think prejudice against Germans is such a problem. Maybe you're part German yourself. Maybe you're young, and your classmates have just learned about Nazis and are using it to mess with you. If that's the case, watch The Sorrow and the Pity and learn all about the French citizens who livedquite contentedlyunder the Vichy regime. Also, study up on the Americans who supported the Nazis, like Henry Ford, and Prescott Bush.

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Guest Cat, Maggie the

Lyndsey, honey...Paul's argument is flatly wrong on the merits, but he feels what he feels, and I don't think we should harp on him for it.

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Guest Forster, Paul D.

Is anyone foolish enough to think the people at TCM are showing these movies for their historical or educational value?Thay are being shown because the people at TCM know that Germanophobia sells,and that's the only reason they are being shown.How would you feel if the gang at TCM decided to show a whole month of "Triumph Of The Will" or "The Eternal Jew",just for educational purposes of course.

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