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Laone08

Shameful...Arlene Dahl on Marilyn Monroe "Word of Mouth" Segment

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>gwtwbooklover you asked:

>On an unrelated note kind of Arlene Dahl is the mother of Lorenzo Lamas not Esther Williams? Any clear up on this matter will be greatly appreciated.

 

Just to set the record straight, Arlene was Fernando?s third wife. They married in 1954, had their only son, Lorenzo in 1958. They separated in 1960. What essentially happened was that Fernando managed to get full custody of his son, while Arlene pursued a business career in cosmetics and fashion. What?s interesting about this situation was that Fernando lived off and on with Esther Williams, until his divorce from Arlene allowed him for the next ten years to live quietly with Esther on something of a fulltime basis. Esther would in time, become Lorenzo?s symbolic stepmother, until for whatever reason, be it love or be it propriety, Fernando finally tied the knot with Esther in 1969.

 

For all that time before the marriage, everybody in town knew they were living together as ?man and wife,? but the two simply played down whatever might be hinted at and frankly the tabloids didn?t really care or want to bother with them. Anyway, Esther seemed happy enough with domestic life, when she retired from the celebrity spotlight, around the late 1960s.

 

In private life, Fernando was considered very much a macho, stereotypical chauvinist and he readily professed a hatred for anyone who was gay. Once on the ?Tonight Show,? he said and I quote: ?If a man tells me he?s a homosexual, I tell him I am not and I will gladly demonstrate!? This and other comments Fernando made didn?t exactly make him very popular and it?s probably why Esther stayed home most of the time during their marriage.

 

There are usually no doubts among those who knew Fernando, he was a womanizer and messed around whenever he had the opportunity. Yet, Esther stayed devoted to him and Lorenzo. She pretty much ended up the ?good wife? and kept their home serene. It wouldn?t be until Fernando?s death in 1982 that Esther finally came forward and made a public appearance on the ABC Television news show, 20/20. It was also more of ?a plug? or promotion for her appearance (the first in over 15 years!) on the popular TV sitcom ?The Love Boat.? In her interview with Barbara Walters, Esther ended up defending her late husband and what there was to his way of life. Since that time, Esther?s been seen around town, usually submits to an interview and this has turned out more so than when she was married to Lamas.

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> gwtwbooklover you wrote:

> . . . I myself wonder how Marilyn would have been if she had had a child of her own. I like to think she would have found substance, happiness and life.

 

She should have stayed a simple housewife and not placed herself under the spotlight. She couldn't handle it.

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> {quote:title=MovieProfessor wrote:}{quote}

> > gwtwbooklover you wrote:

> > . . . I myself wonder how Marilyn would have been if she had had a child of her own. I like to think she would have found substance, happiness and life.

>

> She should have stayed a simple housewife and not placed herself under the spotlight. She couldn't handle it.

 

Joe D. gave her that chance but she chose to be the Kennedy's squeeze...

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I read Esther's book and couldnt understand how she put up with all of that from Fernando. (even alienating herself from her own family) He was an unbelievably demanding and selfish person. I hope the sack time was worth it!

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!#!!#!Saw the Dahl on MM Word of Mouth segment again yesterday, much to my dismay, to advert MM programming showcase for last nite/this morning. I remembered I posted about it a while ago so I popped in to see my orig post and ... wow ... it took on a life of it's own. hope everyone had a good time and it was wonderful to see people respecting each other, laughing and sharing opinions.

 

In anything I take the time to post, to answer a question asked soon after the original post "Jesus, Mary and Joseph. Are you for real?" yes...I am very much for real: a real strongly verbose opinionated classic film lover and elitist film snob that when overcome with strong opinion or see what I view as an injustice, I act on it. Though I am religious I fail to see what "Jesus, Mary and Joseph" have to do with my post. ]:)

 

To those who thought I'd been run off, heck no...I just "don't do" message boards often. I did join the film union a bit ago & set up a profile where I given even stronger opinions about films than here, if you can believe that's possible. I am not a regular MB reader; I use it to post things that I find important and love to read what others think about the same topic.

 

Was great reading how many different views there were/are about the segment and how many feel similar to me and how many others opposite or feel nothing about it. Everyone is so different, it's always great to learn who thinks similiarly as well as opposite. Communication is the only way to really bridge the gaps between people, cultures and nations.

 

And to TCM Programmers, I still believe the Dahl piece should be pulled because it continues to foster an *image* of Marilyn that is untrue, unlike any of the other pieces TCM airs. If you need interviews about Marilyn, take them from EPKs that Turner owns the film rights to in conjunction to the title film. There are spectacular interviews about Marilyn on Some Like It Hot and even available for Something's Got To Give, just to name 2.

 

For those wondering...I'm not a mega MM fan. I just don't like to see something I view as wrong or an injustice to someone who can no longer defend herself when there are other ways to get interviews that perform the advertising necessity.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Let's look for ways to take care of one another rather than look for ways to take advantage of one another."~~~Oceanchick99isms ~~~Laone08isms (both are me) :P

 

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> I recently saw the “Word of Mouth” segment with Arlene Dahl discussing an incident at a party at Mickey Mantle’s home at which Marilyn Monroe was in attendance. The segment relates an anecdote of Marilyn overhearing a conversation about Walt Whitman, and entering the discussion assuming, according to the anecdote, that the topic is Whitman’s Chocolates. Arlene describes this as a “gaffe” with the obvious implication that Marilyn didn’t know who Walt Whitman was and embarrassed herself and the entire party with her ignorance.

Dahl's reminiscence makes it quite clear that Monroe was guilty of only overhearing the name "Whitman" and jumping in with her two cents before taking in the context of which Whitman the parties to the conversation were discussing. Whether Monroe knew who Walt Whitman was or could quote his verse is irrelevant, and her "gaffe" (a poor and inaccurate choice of words on Dahl's part) more of a failure on Monroe's part to absorb a bit more of the conversation before deciding that it could only have been about chocolate (and, had Marilyn lived long enough, she might've been faced with a third choice: the sniper who, in 1966, gunned down scores of innocent people from the tower at the University of Texas).

 

Still, Dahl was there...and you weren't.

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Whether the story Arlene Dahl is telling is true or false (I've no reason to believe it is false), I agree it's not appropriate, and should not be used. Unless someone can point me to another WOM segment on another star, with a similar tone. I'm sure there are tons of anecdotes about the stars that TCM would not want to use. This should be one of them.

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{font:Arial}I agree with the OP.

 

Few if any of the other TCM segments have presented such a one-sided, inaccurate and myth-perpetuating slam.

 

If used at all, Dahl's anecdote should be intercut with someone voicing an opposing view -- as was done with Andre de Toth and Jane Wyman regarding Alfred Hitchcock.

 

Evidence of Ms. Dahl's questionable veracity is contained in the transcript of the Larry King Show of 12/12/02 on which she was one of several people Larry interviewed about Marilyn Monroe.

 

{font}

{font:Arial}* Dahl told a much more detailed version of the "Walt Whitman" story but {font}{font:Arial}instead of standing with Clark Gable and Fred Astaire, she was eavesdropping with JFK: {font}

{font:Arial}

"DAHL: ...when she made the faux pas about Walt Whitman and his chocolates {font}{font:Arial}he had a great sense of humor, and he absolutely roared with laughter. {font}{font:Arial}It wasn't until Fred Astaire broke the silence that -- and said that he liked {font}{font:Arial}the chocolates too because he was such a gentleman... {font}

{font:Arial}

“KING: That was some party. {font}

{font:Arial}

“DAHL: ... that Marilyn relaxed because she knew that she had made a {font}{font:Arial}faux pas because the conversation stopped."{font}

{font:Arial}

As for why anyone as insecure as Marilyn would RELAX after realizing her faux pas had stopped a conversation between some of her childhood idols, Ms. Dahl did not say.

 

{font}

{font:Arial}* Though in the TCM segment it sounds like Dahl is describing a party at "Mickey Mantle's," in this version Dahl clearly described the party as occurring at "Lady Mendl's" (aka famed interior designer Elsie De Wolfe).

 

{font}{font:Arial}* Dahl also claimed she was responsible for introducing MM to JFK. --- an accomplishment also credited to Peter Lawford and Frank Sinatra, to name just two.

{font}

{font:Arial}* Dahl recounted an anecdote which exemplifies the bon mots Marilyn frequently made to support her "dumb blonde" sex symbol image (a category in which I'd put the "Walt Whitman" story -- if it ever really happened) without any indication Marilyn's comment was most probably mere p.r.:

 

"I interviewed her many times for my beauty column for the Chicago Tribune syndicate ... When I asked her why she didn't wear colored nail polish ... she said, ‘Well, I love to feel naked all over.’ “

{font}

{font:Arial}* Dahl described a remarkable conversation with Marilyn which should totally up-end any movie fan's assumptions of what the stars talk about when they attend each other's premieres:

"Well, I was at -- in London when they had the premiere of "The Prince and The Showgirl" that she did with Lawrence Olivier. And she -- we saw each other after the premiere, and she said, ‘Arlene, I'm really reading books. I really know what they mean.’ " {font}

 

{font:Arial}* Slightly O/T ... i{font}{font:Arial}n what might be called a Freudian typo, Dahl is quoted: "I met her at Joe ****'s (ph) house ..."

{font}

{font:Arial}And all this time I thought Charlie Sheen was "Joe ****."

 

{font}{font:Arial}The full transcript:

 

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0212/12/lkl.00.html

 

{font}

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Arlene Dahl was my glamour mentor in the 60's when I was on my own and trying to find my style. I had a paperback version of *Always Ask a Man* which was my beauty bible til it fell apart. In the section on blondes she said positive things about Marilyn so this dissing seems a recent thing. She was on marriage 5 and then into astrology so I gave little credence to her personal advice. I've never thought much of her as an actress and when I see her on TV today, including the discussed segment, I wonder how I let her influence me that much. I understand now how Lorenzo is who he is; with parents like this he never had much of a chance. Whoever said this reflects more negatively on her than Marilyn is right. Does this she mean she's *never *put her foot in her mouth? Those who know me know I have and I'll bet everyone else here have too.

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When is TCM going to ditch the "Word of Mouth" with Arlene Dahl making fun of Marilyn Monroe? I never see any other person featured in this spot saying anything mean about a fellow performer, so why keep showing this one?

 

 

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