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[B]TCM's official definition of "classic"[/B]


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It is interesting though--when TCM dies show a more modern film, it's usually an award winner or highly praised by critics (and no I'm not referring to Night of the Lepus, which is, BTW, a hoot to watch and I highly recommend it to anyone who has that sort of sense of humor). When it comes to those movies from the Golden Age, they are not nearly so selective. There are a lot of pre-1960 films that TCM plays which are completely ordinary and if I may say it, pretty darn boring.

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> {quote:title=filmlover wrote:}{quote}

> > {quote:title=PrinceSaliano wrote:}{quote}

> > No, it cannot be new...not on TCM anyway.

> Why? Because it has the word "Classic" in its title? You're putting your own judgement on the word again. But as TCM states, classic is of every age. Before you or others state that is not what Turner Classic Movies is about, you now have their official word that it _is_. Much as you may have your own feeling about what Turner Classic Movies should be, this is what they said. I wanted to print it so we can now, once and for all, lay to rest this volatile topic.

You don't really believe you can "lay to rest this volatile topic", do you?

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> {quote:title=PrinceSaliano wrote:}{quote}

> > {quote:title=filmlover wrote:}{quote}

> > > {quote:title=PrinceSaliano wrote:}{quote}

> > > No, it cannot be new...not on TCM anyway.

> > Why? Because it has the word "Classic" in its title? You're putting your own judgement on the word again. But as TCM states, classic is of every age. Before you or others state that is not what Turner Classic Movies is about, you now have their official word that it _is_. Much as you may have your own feeling about what Turner Classic Movies should be, this is what they said. I wanted to print it so we can now, once and for all, lay to rest this volatile topic.

> You don't really believe you can "lay to rest this volatile topic", do you?

Maybe not, but I can certainly paste again TCM's definition of classic whenever someone says something like "TCM is running movies from the last forty years and anything that recent cannot be called 'classic'."

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> {quote:title=C.Bogle wrote:}{quote}

> Sounds halfway between a definition and a marketing strategy.

 

You are right about that. It?s a 2006 marketing strategy. They?ve already got most of the old-movie fans signed up for the second tier, and now they want to sign up the non-old-movie fans.

 

Here?s the 1995 TCM statement of what TCM was dedicated to originally: ?legendary classics? and ?hard to find treasures?:

 

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Fred, are you saying they are not showing legendary classics and hard-to-find treasures? By the way, the right side arrow points to the 1980s (so obviously they think classics and hard to find treasures goes beyond the Golden Age of Hollywood), and now 16 years later that would be expanded into the 1990s and some 2000s.

 

By the way, Fred, it says "of All Time". And if you read that thing you posted, it doesn't say "dedicated", it says "..._featuring_ a line-up of legendary classics plus hard-to-find treasures..."

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> {quote:title=PrinceSaliano wrote:}{quote}

> You are assuming that TCM's definition of "classic" should not be challenged.

 

No, if you feel classic means something else, you can definitely challenge someone else's opinion...BUT if TCM says - which they do - that classics of all kinds come from every era, you can't say they are not being true to their name, policy, etc. if they run films from every era.

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I think that's an awesome definition. As a young whippersnapper I have a very different view of what "new" is compared to others, and what "old" is. Like I remember someone saying nothing released after 1969 should be shown on TCM, but to me "Amadeus" (1984) is a classic movie. it's great, and it's old enough to have stood some kind of test of time. Then, to me, even newer than that is "Hunt for Red October" (1990 I think). Here again. Great, old enough to have been somewhere, and I don't remember it being released, so to me it's not a "new" movie. But to someone who saw "Lawrence of Arabia" or "Miracle on 34th Street" when they were brand new, 1990 is too recent. Or, hey, I go to church with a woman who just turned 109. This means she remembers Max Sennet comedies. To her, having seen the 1920s Ben Hur, the 1959 Ben Hur might be too new to be called a classic.

 

I also think foreign films have a whole other standard as far as time goes, and that's probably because, as the "definition" goes, it stands out in a special way. It has to to be seen in America out of all the great films from other countries.

 

Not that I want all 1990s and 2000s movies on TCM, or even very many very often, but, as it was said, "classic" is subjective.

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Lonesome, there are some on the board who think films past 1955 should not be shown, so that would even leave out Ben-Hur and Lawrence of Arabia. Some thing the cut off should be 1950. Some think there should only be silents. Some think there should be no silents. I am sure there are some who are against color.

 

TCM tries to please everybody and does a pretty good job of it. But some - a few - are so set in their ways, they don't care about anyone else and scream bloody murder like his or her own civil liberties are being taken away. Gad, what if TCM did run only pre-1950s and then someone who was in favor of that suddenly found a night of 1940s films he didn't like that they were running? He would complain on the board and say it isn't what he wants. And so the amount of releases dwindles again, until such time as TCM just runs the 50 films he likes...that is, until he complains TCM is running them way too many times in a month.

 

And so it goes.

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> {quote:title=LonesomePolecat wrote:}{quote}

> Then, to me, even newer than that is "Hunt for Red October" (1990 I think). Here again. Great, old enough to have been somewhere, and I don't remember it being released, so to me it's not a "new" movie.

 

This has aired on several channels many times. So why do you want to see it on TCM, when it already airs on other channels?

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I think you have a point, though I've never thought too much about it before.

Assuming that a lot more films were produced during the studio era, and that

in every year quite a few average films are released, it's only natural that many

of the studio era films are fairly routine and of not much interest in themselves.

I suppose there might also be financial considerations.

 

(Best Performance By A Rabbit in an Original Screenplay)

 

Well any advertisement is going to put the company's best foot forward. Of

course they do show a lot of legendary classics and hard to find gems, but

they also show the paint by the numbers films that were released. For me a

classic is more about quality than about a particular time period.

 

They should also probably change the TCM Underground name. Many of them

are just low-budget, drive-in type flicks that have little to do with the original idea

of what an underground film is. Just a minor quibble.

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> {quote:title=LonesomePolecat wrote:}{quote}

> Or, hey, I go to church with a woman who just turned 109. This means she remembers Max Sennet comedies. To her, having seen the 1920s Ben Hur, the 1959 Ben Hur might be too new to be called a classic.

 

It?s a little arrogant of you to compare people like me to the 109 year old lady you know and to infer that we only like movies of our childhood.

 

I loved classic movies when I was a kid 8, 9, and 10 years old, but many of them were made long before I was born.

 

I was lucky enough to see a re-release of King Kong in 1952, when I was 10 years old. That same year I saw ?Chang? in a theater that showed old movies. Chang was made in 1927 and will be showing on TCM next Wednesday. I saw Gone with the Wind in a theater during a re-release in 1953. It was made before I was born.

 

I saw ?Riso Amaro?, an early Italian neo-realism film, in a theater in 1952. I was lucky to live in a town that had one little theater than often ran silent films, old classics, and foreign films. So I was exposed to a lot of classics that had nothing at all to do with any standard ?films of my youth?.

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> It’s a little arrogant of you to compare people like me to the 109 year old lady you know and to infer that we only like movies of our childhood.

 

It's a little arrogant of you to argue that TCM should cater solely to your whims because you pay for the channel, but [glibly dismiss the whims of others who are also paying for TCM|http://forums.tcm.com/jive/tcm/message.jspa?messageID=8491926#8491926]

 

(If TCM could use the money I'm paying for it to get the rights to *The Hellstrom Chronicle* for TCM Underground, I sure wouldn't mind. Even if some people here would have an apoplectic fit because the movie was made in the early 1970s.)

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Well, well, well... never a kind word from Fedya. You follow me around from thread to thread just to disagree. The last time was to try to claim there were pure yellows in the 2-strip Technicolor segment of ?Hollywood Review of 1929?.

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People, people, oh why can't we all just get along?

I kind of have fun making fun of hippies, but sometimes they had something. Hippy time:

 

"Come on, people now, smile on your brother

Everybody get together, try to love one another

right now."

 

(some hippy group from 1967. I think the "Youngbloods", whoever they were...)

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Fred,

 

I really have no problem with someone like you trying to make their own case as to what they think should be shown on a channel like TCM.

 

I mean, you do have a point. You have decided to pay extra money, money that could be used on a variety of other things, but you have chosen to spend it on acquiring TCM for your viewing pleasure.

 

When that cable channel starts to show movies that were made after a certain time period you get upset or mad that they are showing newer titles on a channel that you had thought would show only a certain type of film, films made from the "golden age" of film making.

 

I have no problem with that, if that is what you have been saying for a long time around here.

 

The thing is of course if you read what TCM's original mission statement was at the beginning in 1994, it said it was *featuring films from the 1920s to the 1980s*. Of course by the tenth anniversary of the channel in 2004, the mission statement was changed to include films from the 2000s.

 

So when you start to proclaim that TCM should show films from one time period and one time period only, really this is just your opinion.

 

It is only your opinion. And you are entitled to your opinion. Just like everyone else who posts here.

 

And that is the way it should be, for TCM is not going to stop showing films from any time period. You think for one minute if TCM could get the rights to show an Oscar-nominated film like The Kings Speech, they would not show it? Because according to you and several others who post here, showing a film from 2010 would be blasphemy. It would go against everything you think TCM stands for.

 

Only problem is that by showing a film like The Kings Speech, the only thing that would be wrong is that in your opinion, TCM should not be showing that film. Obviously if TCM was able to get the rights to show that film from 2010, that would be a major coup for them. It would definitely bring attention to the rest of the cable public interested in seeing the film that would otherwise never watch TCM. And who knows, maybe the airing of The Kings Speech or any other recently released film would also garner increased attention to the channel.

 

So I understand your frustration with TCM about them showing more recently made films, but as they have done since the creation of the channel in 1994, not only do they show many pre 1960 films, but they also show films from as recently as the mid 2000s. Not many of course but they do show more recent fare.

 

Personally I do not have a problem with the showing of more recent films. It has always been my opinion that more recent films should be shown on this channel. And that is because my opinion is that any film can be called a "classic", even one as recent as a film released last year.

 

As far as a film like The Hunt For Red October is concerned, that I think should be included on this channel. I think it IS a classic. Great story, great acting, great suspense.

 

But I may be in the minority around here and I accept that. You should at least be willing to accept that TCM shows films from every time period as it's own mission statement qualifies.

 

You may disagree with their statement, but having really only one channel that devotes more than 90% of their showings to pre-1960 titles, that should not be that much of a problem.

 

Of course, I have been wrong before.

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We can see ?The Hunt for Red October? on other cable channels, but we can?t see ?The Bitter Tea of General Yen?, ?Wild Boys of the Road?, ?The Phantom Lady?, or other old classics on any other cable channel. We can?t find films from the ?20s, ?30s, and ?40s on any other channel, except for a few Fox films from the ?40s on the Fox Channel (third tier), but we can find plenty of modern movies from the ?80s, ?90s, and ?00s on several other channels.

 

If you want certain new movies on TV, you should contact AMC, TBS, and TNT, FX, Hallmark and other modern movie channels:

 

http://www.tbs.com/schedule/movielistings.jsp

 

http://www.locatetv.com/listings/amc

 

http://www.tnt.tv/schedule/

 

http://www.hallmarkmoviechannel.com/schedule.aspx?Date=2/12/2011&Range=2/6/2011

 

http://www.fxnetworks.com/movies-landing.php

 

http://www.locatetv.com/listings/encore

 

http://www.locatetv.com/listings/encore-drama-pacific

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Boy I can tell I hit a nerve there.

 

I did not write that we need to see more films from recent times did I?

 

All I wrote was that if you read the mission statement from TCM it says that they feature films from the 1920s all the way up to the 2000s.

 

And I also wrote that they show the vast majority of films made from before 1960.

 

I am sorry Fred, if you want to continue this argument and belief that TCM show only films from before 1960 that is fine.

 

Because guess what?

 

TCM will continue to show more new and recent films, although the showing of these films will be vastly outnumbered when compared to the older films from pre-1960.

 

I don't need to see newer films on TCM. I have quite a few more recent films in my own library to satisfy that need. But, I do believe that many people out there would like to see newer films IN ADDITION to older films on TCM.

 

Case in pont: Last Saturday, Feb. 5th TCM showed Gandhi, the Oscar winner from 1982. Now if ever there was a "new classic" from recent times, Gandhi was it. I do not own this film, yet I loved the fact that TCM showed it. And I am sure quite a few other people who write here as well liked it being shown.

 

Maybe not everybody, but some of us did.

 

Because I have to tell you...... IMHO about 50% of the time TCM shows enough junk made from before 1960 it makes my stomach upset.

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> {quote:title=filmlover wrote:}{quote}

> > {quote:title=PrinceSaliano wrote:}{quote}

> > You are assuming that TCM's definition of "classic" should not be challenged.

>

> No, if you feel classic means something else, you can definitely challenge someone else's opinion...BUT if TCM says - which they do - that classics of all kinds come from every era, you can't say they are not being true to their name, policy, etc. if they run films from every era.

I've never said they weren't. However, if their mission statement includes "newer" titles available from Netflix, on DVD or other cable channels, I can and will voice my displeasure.

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I have an idea......

 

When TCM shows a newer film from an era that you do not care for, why don't you stop watching TCM for that 2-hour block of time and put a vhs tape or a DVD of an older film on to watch until after the more recent film has stopped on TCM?

 

That way you do not have to sit there and grumble that TCM is taking up your valuable time by showing a newer film.

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> {quote:title=FredCDobbs wrote:}{quote}

> Well, well, well... never a kind word from Fedya. You follow me around from thread to thread just to disagree. The last time was to try to claim there were pure yellows in the 2-strip Technicolor segment of Hollywood Review of 1929.

Fred, that's the beauty of the ignore feature. I had one of those too. Problem solved.

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