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Incredible Dumbness of "The Godfather"


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(sigh)

 

You've actually revealed your own level of intellect in your title and post.

 

Any movie fan, of classic or modern, knows that one of the struggles of the antagonist and/or protagonist is right vs. wrong and what they think are the two. Good luck with life.

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(intellectual yawn)

This movie completely silly and overrated.

J. Edgar Hoover actually WAS correct when he said there is no "Mafia."

Do you really believe a bunch of greasy crooks controlled the courts, the U.S. Congress, that they had business empires?

"Goodfellas" was more like it...busting open parking meters for pennies.

My parents owned carpet stores in the Midwest, and a couple of these characters tried to muscle in for some protection money. My father told them to go into the basement of one of his stores for the payoff; he has a couple carpetlayers beat the daylights out of them and threw them into a snowbank in the alley.

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You've GOT to be kidding when you say that there is/was no mafia. As for "The Godfather", The other dons ask Don Corleone for his influence with the police and courts to help them run their drug business. Don Corleone's dilemma, which he states, is that the police and courts will look the other way at crimes such as gambling, loansharking or prostitution, but his influence will count for nothing when drugs are involved.

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The Sicilian crime organization did not went by the term Mafia but the "Cosa Nostra".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicilian_Mafia

 

The Mafias Code of Honor http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,960357,00.html

 

J. Edgar Hoover and the FBI must live in 2 different worlds, digging up people that doesn't exist? http://johnsville.blogspot.com/2004/11/mafia-burial-grounds.html

 

Hope you are not a member of the *Flat Earth Society.* ;)

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Gentle TCM poster, do you not want any degree of complexity or moral ambivalence in your movie-watching activities? What makes *The Godfather* great is that the characters in it know they are doing evil things, but rationalize it to themselves that "the end justifies the means".

I had to watch this movie five times before I completely "got " it. The plot alone is very difficult to follow (at least I found it to be so, the first two or three times I saw it), but it's one of those movies that rewards the viewer with its richness of story and character and with the questions it raises for us to ponder - questions about how people who regard themselves as "good" can do terrible things and justify it to themselves. *The Godfather* posits one of the universal problems in life- what is the nature of evil, and how can we recognize it in all its forms? How can people who do evil things think of themselves as basically "good" , how can they lie to themselves as they do?

 

Ok, I'm getting a little grandiose here, sorry. But to dismiss the film as rubbish because "hey, they're just a bunch of bad guys, what's so interesting about that?" is just a tad silly.

Besides, even if you don't like the story or the characters or even the movie's subject matter, you have to admire the cinematography, the mise en scene, the acting. Even if you don't agree that it's a great film, surely you have to concede that it's at least well-made.

 

Edited by: misswonderly on Feb 13, 2011 6:11 PM

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OK...what I really didn't like: when Sonny is pounding Carlo in the street: the part when he's beating him in the garbage can pen, Sonny throws a punch that misses by a mile, and Carlo's whole body flies backward. How did that get in? Watch for it.

 

Seriously, and you can look this up: after Coppola screened the final print, HE said: "My GOD...I've made a movie that's all about bald men talking in dark rooms!"

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In the opening scences of Godfather 2 where Roths man meets Michael, while the Wedding festivaties are going on outside, concerning the the take over of a Hotel - Casino where Meyer Klingman runs the show, the encounter is actually about the mured of Gus Greenbaum, of the Chicago Outfit and the manager of The Riveria, who the Chicago group wanted out because of this dope addict & possible taking for the mobs cut.

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> {quote:title=Ascotrudgeracer wrote:}{quote}

> Mafia kingpin refuses to enter the lucrative world of heroin sales because "the Church wouldn't like it."

> BUT they think nothing of slaughtering people with guns, knives, etc.

> "Selling drugs? No way! I want to go to heaven!"

 

 

The "dumbness" you point out is the central arc of the Corleone story. Coppola makes the hypocrisy and utterly failed values system pretty clear. A baptism intercut with scenes of murder...he's at his daughter's wedding, but sits there planning brutal mob stuff in his office...leave the gun take the cannoli...ok to cheat on your wife but "dont discuss business at the table"...

 

And surely you can think of some modern examples of people committing murders but being 100% convinced they are going to heaven?

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There was a documented member of some crime family on "Tom Snyder" (remember him?) in the '70's after the film came out, and HE said how ridiculous it was that mob figures would EVER have religious reasons OR political-connection reasons to not make money off heroin. For gawdsakes, Lucky Luciano made million$ off heroin!

 

AND, at the big sitdown in the movie, a mafia guy says "it's an 'infamnia(?)' to sell drugs in the white neighborhoods (the Catholic Church wouldn't like it) but presumably the Church has no problem with murder?!

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Sure, and the courts and police "look the other way" when it comes to murder?

Crime guys -- the real ones -- thought this film was absurd, but WASPs in America loved it.

No "mafia" EVER, for any reason, would balk at an opportunity to make as much money as he possibly could. To think that one would, is ridiculous.

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> {quote:title=Ascotrudgeracer wrote:}{quote}

> There was a documented member of some crime family on "Tom Snyder" (remember him?) in the '70's after the film came out, and HE said how ridiculous it was that mob figures would EVER have religious reasons OR political-connection reasons to not make money off heroin. For gawdsakes, Lucky Luciano made million$ off heroin!

>

> AND, at the big sitdown in the movie, a mafia guy says "it's an 'infamnia(?)' to sell drugs in the white neighborhoods (the Catholic Church wouldn't like it) but presumably the Church has no problem with murder?!

 

 

You are looking at *The Godfather* with an eye one usually reserves for watching the local news. You seem to be looking for accuracy, logic, facts, and utter believability in a work of fiction. With that criteria, most works of art would be failures.

 

Busby Berkeley numbers could never be staged on a Broadway theater. There are no giant apes. No way could Fred Astaire really dance on the ceiling. No woman would ever really prefer Leslie Howard over total **** Clark Gable. No way would Lucy be living in a 6-floor walk-up on e.68th st. if her husband was a band leader and movie star.

 

If you dont think the movie works, and that Coppola missed the mark in adapting Puzo's novel, that's fine and could be a lively discussion. But you are gonna have a tough time convincing anyone that the *The Godfather* is "dumb."

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Like "The Godfather", movies should not be over analysed, the point I think you have made with Fred Astair and Lucy. :) Asco forgot that Hollywood use inaccurate drama interlaced into such movies to make them entertaining. "Titanic" is very much like this

 

Movies should be criticised if they are blatantly inaccurate. One movie that came to mind was the made for TV "Noah's Ark". Now that was *DUMB!* What looked liked a Tru-Value lumberyard made a delivery to Noahs house. Its a miracle they didn't asked him, will that be cash or card.

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The name of this thread caught my interest. So let me pitch in here and say how much I hate the Godfather. Basically, it's not that it's a bad movie, it's more that I don't think it's as great a movie as everyone else seems to think it is (i.e. AFI and other critic people), so mostly it's that I'm sick of hearing about it. I know a lot of people adore it, and that's cool, but it doesn't mean it's the greatest movie ever made. There are a lot of better movies that don't get as much praise, and that makes me sad too.

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> {quote:title=LonesomePolecat wrote:}{quote}

> ... Basically, it's not that it's a bad movie, it's more that I don't think it's as great a movie as everyone else seems to think it is (i.e. AFI and other critic people), so mostly it's that I'm sick of hearing about it. I know a lot of people adore it, and that's cool, but it doesn't mean it's the greatest movie ever made. There are a lot of better movies that don't get as much praise, and that makes me sad too.

 

That's exactly how I feel about a lot of movies, but not *The Godfather*. It isn't so much that I detest them, I would just leave them alone if everyone would just shut up about them and stop going on about how great they are.

 

At the risk of de-railing this thread (which is a very interesting topic in its own right), some films I feel the same way about are : *Dr. Zhivago, Gone with the Wind, A Star is Born (pick any version), Laurence of Arabia*...as you can see, I have a problem with "epics". Anyway, some of the films I list I don't really mind, but I'm irritated by how people rave about them, how "wonderful" and "great" and "profound" they are. I really just hate them in reaction to everyone else who loves them (to a degree that they don't deserve, IMO.)

 

So, even though I personally think *The Godfather* is a great movie and deserves its praise, I can understand what you're saying about it, how it bothers you that the critics are always putting it on "best film" lists, etc. Chacon a son gout.

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ChorusGirl wrote:

 

"You are looking at The Godfather with an eye one usually reserves for watching the local news. You seem to be looking for accuracy, logic, facts, and utter believability in a work of fiction. With that criteria, most works of art would be failures."

 

Exactly !

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