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Kurt Russell or Henry Fonda and Val Kilmer or Dennis Quaid


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While "Tombstone" went through many problems before and during shooting, as far as I'm concerned it is one of the best westerns made in the last 25 or 30 years.I think it is the closest telling of the O.K. shoot out.William DeFoe was set to play Doc Holliday, but Buna Vista{Disney} said no, because of his role in "The Last Temptation of Christ". Val Kilmer was their second choice.He stole the the film.Robert Mitchum was suppose to have played old man Clinton, but when the shooting started he fell off his horse and injured his back. So the role was written out and he did the narration.Glenn Ford was set to play Sheriff White but fell ill and Harry Carey was cast.These were just a few of the set backs, others included an over long script,firings, at one point Kurt Russell had to rally the cast and crew for fear of the production being shut down.Russell's Wyatt was one of his best parts and he did a outstanding job in the part.Fonda's Earp was a poetic version as was Fords direction and he was superb as was the film. Quaid was a beautiful role for him and he did a beautiful job, but I still go with Kilmers.

But with all the problems I think "Tombstone" out shines "Wyatt Earp" hands down. While I don't consider "Wyatt Earp" a bad film, it didn't move me like "Tombstone" did."My Darling Clementine" is poetry in motion, but not a factual retelling.That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it

 

Edited by: fredbaetz on Mar 31, 2011 3:19 PM

 

Edited by: fredbaetz on Mar 31, 2011 3:21 PM

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You all are forgetting "Gunfight at the O.K. Corral".

 

I especially liked Burt Lancaster as Wyatt Earp and Kirk Douglas as Doc Holiday. And DeForest Kelly as one of the Earps.

 

Of course this film is really a typical 1950's era "Hollywood" portrayal of the events that occurred that day in 1881. Sort of between the wonderful poetic My Darling Clementine and the far more violent and realistic Tombstone/Wyatt Earp films.

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I'm putting "TOMBSTONE" over "GUNFIGHT AT THE OK CORRAL" though the scene where Kirk Douglas goes apoplectically ballistic on Jo Van Fleet. I just found "Tombstone" a more rivetingly told tale.

 

Jerk that pistol.

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Fredb,

 

Both Quaid and Kilmer steal their respective movies as Doc Holliday. They each give very different performances. In *Wyatt Earp*, Quaid's was his come-back role after years of bad choices, drug rehab and the feeling that he had squandered that remarkable talent of his.

 

Kilmer's performance fit *Tombstone* like a glove. He proved, with that role, that he could move into character roles with the same intensity and the same talent he had brought to his starring roles.

 

The are both excellent as Doc and together, probably give us a good idea of what the real Holliday might have been like.

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A couple of great pieces of dialogue from "Gunfight at the O.K. Corral"......

 

Wyatt Earp (Burt Lancaster):

"Hold up your right hand. Do you solemnly swear to uphold... oh, this is ridiculous. You're deputized. Grab some gear, I'll get the horses."

 

Dr. John 'Doc' Holiday (Kirk Douglas):

"Wait a minute, don't I get to wear a tin star?"

 

Wyatt Earp:

"Not on your life!"

 

 

Dr. John 'Doc' Holiday:

"Want a gun hand?"

 

Wyatt Earp:

"You? No, thanks."

 

Dr. John 'Doc' Holiday:

"I do handle them pretty well. The only trouble is, those best able to testify to my aim aren't around for comment."

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Gunfight at the OK Corral is my all time favorite Western partly because of the interplay between Earp and Holliday played by Burt Lancaster and Kirk Douglas. They are equals as characters and actors and the slow but steady forming of their friendship keeps you watching. I love how it's Doc who keeps Wyatt together after his brother is killed and all he wants is revenge and Wyatt who begs Doc to get help for his illness and appreciate Kate more. You believe these men really care about each other. This dialogue shows you why.

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With all the talk of Wyatt and Doc and the Clantons, I'm surprised that no one's mentioned John Sturges follow-up to his "Gunfight at the O.K. Corral". "Hour of the Gun" with James Garner and Jason Robards as Wyatt and Doc and the great Robert Ryan as Old man Clanton. Sturges was disappointed with certain aspects of his earlier film, mainly because of producer Hal Wallis's interference , Sturges went with a much darker side of Earp and his revenge after the shoot-out, which is how the film begins.. One of Garners best roles, it didn't find the audience the previous film did. While it's not a great western, I though it was a good film with a fine cast.

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I've seen "hour of The Gun" and maybe since "Gunfight At The OK Corral" is one of my favorite I was not all that fond of it. Though dozens of people (well, that is an exaggeration) played Earp somehow Garner doesn't seem a fit to me. Of course, that is me. (And I really like Garner.) But he also seems overly brutal, murderous in fact. That is a leap for the movie legend of Earp.

 

I like the first half better than the second.

 

Edited by: movieman1957 on Apr 4, 2011 2:37 PM

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From what I've seen on some History Channel documentaries, Hour of the Gun is not that far off from what happened at the OK Corral, erring on the dark side rather than the saintly image of Earp we've gotten many times. I don't get the comaraderie between James Garner and Jason Robards that Lancaster/Douglas had but it is an interesting film.

 

I saw Sledge yesterday morning and have seen Duel at Diablo as well as that Cheyenne episode "War Party". For me our Mr. Garner plays the outcast pretty well although in all the movies he has a human side as well; it was only on the TV episode that he had zero redeeming qualities.

 

Sledge was a shock-a spaghetti Western that I liked. Half the cast was Italian, the rest 50's TV Western stars like Dennis Weaver, Claude Akins, Wayde Preston, and Tony Young plus John Marley. It has a pretty good plot and a theme song that runs all through it tying it all together. Not a bad way to spend a few hours.

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I've seen "Duel At Diablo" and that is a good, stark film. It has the bonus of Sidney Poitier in it as well but Garner is quite rough in this one. He is not completely without a heart but it looks like it doesn't come easy to him.

 

"Sledge" I have not seen but from what I've heard it may be rougher, in setting, than "Diablo."

 

I guess maybe my question about "Hour of The Gun" was if it was to be a kind of sequel we are certainly getting different approaches to the characters. Robards seemed an odd choice.

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When Sturges started production on "Hour of the Gun", he was informed by United Artist that they wanted different leads, in other words no Lancaster or Douglas.While "Gun" was fairly factual, there were many inaccuracies, although not as many as in "Gunfight at the O.K. Corral"

I think one of the problems was the fact that "Gun" was a darker film and Garners Earp was just out for revenge and not as a lawman. As Doc { Jason Robards } says at one point, "These are not arrest warrants, these are hunting licenses " Audiences at that time didn't want dark hero's and the film didn't do well. Look for a young Jon Voight in his screen debut as Curley Bill Brocius. John Sturges was very adept at making westerns. Beside "O.K' and "Gun" some of his others included "The Law and Jake Wade", "Last Train from Gun Hill","Escape from Ft. Brave", "Joe Kidd" and that little one called "The Magnificent Seven"..

Side note. In 1955 a news piece ran saying that producer Hal Wallis was hoping to cast his "O.K." movie with Burt Lancaster and Humphrey Bogart {Doc} and Barbara Stanwyck in one of the female roles....WOW, Holy nitrate film Batman......

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No odder than his playing Al Capone in The St. Valentine's Day Massacre. I've seen pictures of Capone and he was squat and ugly. The movie played like a documentary but this casting took away from that. Robards was great in All the President's Men and not a bad Doc Holliday, who was an educated man. The scene where Earp cuts down the outlaw on the railroad track was real; it was revenge for Morgan's murder.

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"I've seen "Duel At Diablo" and that is a good, stark film. It has the bonus of Sidney Poitier in it as well but Garner is quite rough in this one. He is not completely without a heart but it looks like it doesn't come easy to him." << ( Movieman1957 ) >>

 

Awwwwww man, I LOVE "DUEL AT DIABLO." It has one of my favorite movie theme songs (my favorite is from "THE LONG SHIPS" also featuring Sidney Poitier). I love all the story lines and themes intersecting throughout the film. Garner rough tough and rugged, bringing back the wife that Dennis Weaver no longer wants b'cuz she has been kidnapped by the Apaches... Sidney busting broncs for the military and has to travel along with them...

Garner falling for the wife remembering his wife was also Native-American and killed by whites...the Indians wanting to get back Weaver's wife, played by Bibi Andersson b'cuz she has the child of the Chief's son (the Chief played by that great Native-American actor John Hoyt ;-) ) and a rousing 'Cowboys & Indians' battle. My parents took us to see it in the movies when it came out and I didn't believe Sidney Poitier as a cowboy. How could he play a cowboy? There was no such thing.

 

Uhhh...I learned my lesson and learned my history. Boy, were there ever Black cowboys.

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I have to say TOMBSTONE, hands down. I think it is more accurate and there isnt one slow scene in the entire movie. My favorite scene is Russell and Billy Bob Thornton in the Oriental Saloon!

 

"Go ahead. Go ahead and jerk that smoke wagon and see what happens!"

 

"I said throw down, boy!"

 

"You gunna do somethin' or just stand there and bleed?"

 

I also like Val Kilmer's line "I have two guns...one for each of ya'!"

 

Though Costner's "Earp" and Fonda's "Clementine" are entertaining and good, "TOMBSTONE has the grit and toughness you see the actor's portray! Solid from end to end!

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I find part of that scene a little odd. It feels like "How many names can I come up with for a gun?" I like the attitude of the scene and the movie as a whole but a couple of lines along the way feel odd.

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