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Arab Images On Film Evenings- [i]Politics-free[/i]

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You are correct, once again we made a mistake. There was a miscommunication about how the cartoons were to be scheduled (who, specifically, was supposed to enter them into the scheduling database) and so they were left off the schedule completely. Once again, this is emabarrassing for us, especially because we were excited to play these cartoons in this specific context. Mistakes like this happen, although I acknowledge it seems like they've happened too much lately. It is not unreasonable to want an explanation. I'm sorry.

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clore -

Even though the post from 'tcmprogrammr' was a reply to me, it is obviously meant for you. (And I was completely wrong about them being "removed" due to skittishness over content.) I know it doesn't soothe the disappointment though.

 

'tcmprogrammr' -

Thanks for speaking up. Your acknowledgement and explanation is appreciated.

 

Kyle In Hollywood

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Kyle, I'm not going to get upset over the targeted post to which he/she responded. I'm pleased to see that we at least did get an explanation and I applaud tcmprogrmmr for doing so. I'm sure it wasn't a fun chore to have to 'fess up.

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clore -

I didn't mean "disappointment" at the reply being directed to me but the response "soothing your disappointment" in the special shorts not making on to the channel last night.

 

Sorry for coming across as obtuse.

 

Kyle In Hollywood

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Oh, I didn't mean what I seem to have implied and if you inferred it that way then we've both been obtuse. ;)

 

I just love squeezing "inferred" and "implied" into the same sentence.

 

Seriously, I'm less disappointed about missing some shorts that I can find on YouTube than I am about the whole business of not getting what was expected. Whenever I bring up an on-air snafu, it's not to be insulting, it's just that there do (as even tcmprogrmmr noted) seem to be more of late and my history with viewing TCM is so contrary to that.

 

If I bring it up, I do intend to be offering constructive criticism.

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Well, THANKS for clearin' that up for me, Fred. I wasn't sure WHAT "South Park" episode had gotten somebody so upset that they had called in death threats about it.

 

Yep, MY money was on some Hells Angels or Hog chapter member doin' that after he had watched that one about Harley riders!!!!

 

(...I'm a proud TRIUMPH motorcycle rider here who doesn't run really loud exhausts on his bike, and thus I REALLY enjoyed THAT episode, ya see!...ROFL!!!)

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>While watching this Dogville short, it occurred to me that TCM is long >overdue to run a "Canine Images on Film" series. Perhaps they can get >the Dog Whisperer to co-host.

 

>If they do, I'll want equal time for cats!

 

Good idea. I propose the following festivals:

 

Canine Images (Rin Tin Tin, e.g.)

Feline Images (Cat People, e. g.)

Equine Images (Francis the talking mule, e. g.)

Porcine Images (Porky Pig, e. g.)

 

By the way, TCM can get someone from PETA to attack each film, perhaps Pam Anderson (naked, of course).

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I'd like to apologize to Kyle publicly, and to others on this thread, for the fact that my comments might have led to the racist rantings that have flowed through my inbox over the last several hours. I believe there is great value in TCM presenting this series, and my comments were not intended to diminish that point.

 

Rather, what I tried to focus on was the execution of the series commentary by Dr. Shaheen. It was his statements about certain historical events that I take issue with, not his points about mischaracterizations of the Arab people. On those points, I think he's very much on point, but would have served his own goals better by sticking to those points.

 

And, in response to those who think every group has a complaint about their portrayal, I don't know about that. There are far more Irish cops in film than IRA terrorists, I would think.

 

What I would like to see as an entry in the future is one on Jewish images. Not so much as a counterbalance, but because so many of the moguls were Jewish, and the right expert could bring that dynamic to the front. And, just so you know, although I'm an atheist, I was raised in Judaism, so don't start thinking I'm bashing Jews for controlling the world's media. I'm not.

 

David in Seattle

 

Edited by: mavfan4life on Jul 15, 2011 2:31 PM

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> {quote:title=tcmprogrammr wrote:}{quote}You are correct, once again we made a mistake. There was a miscommunication about how the cartoons were to be scheduled (who, specifically, was supposed to enter them into the scheduling database) and so they were left off the schedule completely. Once again, this is emabarrassing for us, especially because we were excited to play these cartoons in this specific context. Mistakes like this happen, although I acknowledge it seems like they've happened too much lately. It is not unreasonable to want an explanation. I'm sorry.

Well, considering that:

1. TCM managed to get HIGH SPOTS OF THE FAR EAST rescheduled and actually shown within one week of one of those mistakes which happen

2. TCM has prerecorded introductions for Bugs, Popeye, Porky, and the Stooges in the can

3. TCM has a very forgiving audience

might we hope to see the latest mistake unhappen, if not within a week, perhaps before the end of the month of Arab Images on Film?

 

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*"I'd like to apologize to Kyle publicly, and to others on this thread, for the fact that my comments might have led to the racist rantings that have flowed through my inbox over the last several hours."* - David In Seattle

 

No need to publicly apologise to me. We've got a history with one another and nothing could shake that.

 

But I am concerned that you've been receiving disturbing PMs from some members regarding your postings. That's unacceptable. I hope you forward them to WebAdmin and allow them to review what has been sent to you.

 

Kyle In Hollywood

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My thoughts:

 

Stereotypes exist for a reason(I know, not exactly a novel or originial idea here), and what I think is somewhat gnawing at some around here is the idea that Dr, Shaheen, possibly due to the extreme time constraints placed upon him in this format(what does TCM give him?...maybe 3 minutes before and 3 minutes after the showing of a film?), has never seemed to acknowledge the possible reason for such stereotypes being represented in these films.

 

 

In my view, any recognized acedemic scholar worth the time to hear should endeavor to throw into their presentations the ol' "But, on the other hand" argument.

 

 

Dr.Shaheen reminds me a little too much of a Professor of Political Science who's own political bent might be either Left or Right of Center, but who either consciously or subconsciously fails to give to his students a more evenhanded and balanced viewpoint as to why "The Left" or "The Right" might have reason to feel the way they do. Or, as in this case, why certain stereotypes of Arabs might have existed in the past when these older films went into production, and why these stereotypes might persist even to this day.

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Several thoughts:

 

1 - Thanks, tcmprogrammer, for the explanation about the cartoons. Simple as that -- "we goofed" -- and I think any reasonable person understands completely. I agree with the make-good request below, although I'd understand if before-the-month-is-out is too soon. Maybe later in the year a night when Bob could have Jack back for those shorts, and maybe discuss any feedback about this year's festival?

 

2 - Rodent Images (Mouse on the Moon); Avian Images (The Birds; The Cardinal).

 

3 - Now that I think about it, every Doris Day movie made satirizes caucasian protestants...harrumph.

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> {quote:title=Dargo wrote:}{quote}My thoughts:

>

> In my view, any recognized acedemic scholar worth the time to hear should endeavor to throw into their presentations the ol' "But, on the other hand" argument.

>

>

>

To some extent, Dargo, I think responsibility for directing the conversation towards that lies with RO and the producer of the segment, not necessarily the guest.

 

> why certain stereotypes of Arabs might have existed in the past when these older films went into production, and why these stereotypes might persist even to this day.

>

The current anger that rolls through these boards is reflective of the current aggression between the West and the Arab world. All of the other entries dealt with views that had faded into the past (until President Obama's elections brought out extremists who see white "power" fading away in this country).

 

David in Seattle

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I haven't watched the entries from last night. I believe I've seen most of them. Thinking about just watching the commentary and fast forwarding through the films, especially since the cherished toons weren't included.

 

Any recommendations?

 

David in Seattle

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If it seems like I'm posting a lot of garbage, it's just because I noticed that, although Lynn and Kyle joined the board wars around the same time I did, they are thousands of entries ahead of me. It's my summer project to put a serious dent in those gaps, so get over it.

 

David in Seattle

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Terry,

 

When I went to look for them, they had been removed. Don't know what happened.

 

David in Seattle

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David: as Martha Stewart would say, that's a "good thing." In the other thread on this subject you have some posters who disagree with those of us who have raised questions about this series 'anti-semites." It would be nice if those were removed as well. That kind of thing has no place here.

 

Best,

Terry

 

 

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*"In the other thread on this subject you have some posters who disagree with those of us who have raised questions about this series 'anti-semites."* - TE

 

"... this series 'anti-semites."

I don't understand what you are writing. Is this a punctuation error and it should be "this series' anti-semites"? If so, who are the anti-semites associated with the series? Or is there a word or two missing from your post.

 

Again, if anyone is calling another poster "anti-semitic" or using similar language in an inflammatory way, you need to alert WebAdmin. And they are expecting to hear from you ASAP.

 

Kyle In Hollywood

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I don't understand. I posted a reply to someone last night, and I can't find it now. I can't even find the thread, which was also about Arab images in films. This site has so many problems. And I put so much effort into my comment.

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The problem I always have with using term anti-semite as it relates to Arabs and Israelis is they are both semitic people. So, technically, I guess they both could be considered anti-semites within that context.

 

Just finished the Eddie Cantor entry, "Ali Baba Goes to Town". At this point, I'm getting a little tired of disagreeing with Dr. Shaheen, but... Actually, as the series goes on you can begin to get your mind focused on the Arab stereotypes he complains about. They are absolutely out there, but I think it takes a build-up over a period of time to really hit home for me.

 

I made a similar point to Kyle at the Festival about the Star of the Month. You might be familiar with a particular actor's films, but watching 30 or 40 of them in a concentrated manner really gives you a greater feel for the actor's career. Same is true of this series.

 

But, since I don't feel as though this entry rises to the same level as the others, I'd like to continue some nitpicking.

 

1) Dr. Shaheen discussed the scene where Cantor rolls his eyes when the Muslims are praying. Not exactly. He delivers a line that went something like "looking out at your faces...". He then looks out at them and they are facing in the opposite direction, praying. His reaction is *not* to their praying. It is a response to seeing butts instead of faces.

 

2) The Dr. states they are, at one point, bowing to Cantor. He fails to mention they are bowing to Ali Baba, who they believe him to be, not Al Babson (or whatever), the great white hope. He does have a point that it always seems to be the American who rides in to unite the Arabs and save the day, but the use of this as an example is a stretch, at best.

 

3) He gives props to the film makers for the scene with the "Africans" who apparently only speak Cab Calloway. Really? I found this the most offensive scene in the entire film. Having spent some time visiting and working in Africa, I can tell you that African culture is *not* African-American culture. But, it seems to be okay for Dr. Shaheen to look past this scene, although in fairness, he does point out the offensive nature of black face.

 

4) Watched the Popeye cartoon on YouTube (which, thanks to Tivo I can watch on my t.v.). Yes, it parodies elements of Arab culture, but several of the things he complained about were simply staples of the Popeye series. Olive gets kidnapped. Popeye beats off dozens of baddies. It was a formula.

 

I keep trying to figure out what makes this particular entry in the series different than the others. The first entry was a clinical dissection of the most egregiously offensive stereotypes in American film history - African-Americans. Most of the others also dealt with American film attitudes towards various segments of American society. But, this series is focused on depictions of people from another part of the world, not American-based. I'm not sure that lessens the hurtful nature of them for Arab-Americans, but it is a distinction that can only be compared to the Asian Images entry.

 

David in Seattle

 

 

 

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>He does have a point that it always seems to be the American who rides in to unite the Arabs and save the day,

 

LOL, in Mexican movies, it's always a Mexican who saves the day. In Christmas movies made in Mexico about Jesus, he is always a Mexican, and he speaks fluent Spanish. :)

 

-------------------------------------------------

 

Tin Tan en: "Las Mil y Una Noches", 1958:

 

Mexican comedy star, Tin Tan, is in the green turban:

 

 

 

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0241725/

 

Opening credits:

 

 

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*"BTW just thought I'd mention, I caught 2 of the missing cartoons last night, somewhere around "Son of the Sheik" & the "Wind and the Lion"."* - mr6666

 

Thanks for posting that. I'm glad to know someone saw these this month.

 

Kyle In Hollywood

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>BTW just thought I'd mention, I caught 2 of the missing cartoons last night, somewhere around "Son of the Sheik" & the "Wind and the Lion". They showed " Popeye the Sailor Meets Ali Baba's Forty Thieves" (pretty good; love when Popeye talks to himself) & Bugs in "Sahara Hare" (pretty much Yosemite Sam on a camel)

 

Apparently you missed "Hare-Abian Nights," shown earlier, with Yosemite Sam as a Sheik. Oh, and Bugs did an impersonation of an effeminate hairdresser.

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